WBB: Stanford 50 -- USC 47 - Printable Version

WBB: Stanford 50 -- USC 47 - Printable Version

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RE: WBB: Stanford vs. USC Friday 8pm - martyup - 02-17-2023

We only shot 5 free throws in this game. Boy did the refs let them play.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. USC Friday 8pm - cardfan77 - 02-17-2023

(02-17-2023, 10:54 PM)MV72018 Wrote: Can anyone truthfully say that Tara is an excellent end-of-game coach?

There will be plenty of open coaching positions when season concludes. You should really consider applying.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. USC Friday 8pm - Hieronymus - 02-17-2023

Well nothing pretty about that but All Right Now!

Good
Defense
Nivar continues to step up
Ball handling was ok with the big lineup

Bad
Way way too many offensive rebounds for USC
Betts struggled with the intensity after looking good for several games
In general USC is a bad match up for Stanford - the quickness and intensity is a problem for Stanford
Haley’s offense takes a dive against teams that can pressure the perimeter. I still think this lineup is better then having Lepolo or Emme-Nnopu on the floor more.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. USC Friday 8pm - TheWildJacko - 02-17-2023

(02-17-2023, 10:59 PM)cardfan77 Wrote:
(02-17-2023, 10:54 PM)MV72018 Wrote: Can anyone truthfully say that Tara is an excellent end-of-game coach?

There will be plenty of open coaching positions when season concludes. You should really consider applying.

Amazing, cardfan77.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. USC Friday 8pm - TonyLima - 02-17-2023

(02-17-2023, 10:59 PM)martyup Wrote: We only shot 5 free throws in this game. Boy did the refs let them play.

Forgot the <sarc> tag.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. USC Friday 8pm - Hieronymus - 02-17-2023

(02-17-2023, 10:59 PM)martyup Wrote: We only shot 5 free throws in this game. Boy did the refs let them play.

19 TOTAL fouls. Yeah they let almost everything go.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. USC Friday 8pm - BosCard - 02-17-2023

Ugly game. Our 3 leading scorers shot the ball horribly 10 for 34. But the defense was enough to win. Disappointed but still hopeful for the tournament. Two years ago we really stunk it up on offense in the final four and the national championship and we still won.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. USC Friday 8pm - Card10Fan - 02-17-2023

(02-17-2023, 10:54 PM)MV72018 Wrote: Can anyone truthfully say that Tara is an excellent end-of-game coach?

I do wish she'd use and utilize timeouts better late in games. I do think when the coaches design plays in timeouts, they are often good sets. Our team just doesn't always execute them. I can recall some pretty epic late game endings we've had over the years resulting in victory. She's a great coach. Period.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. USC Friday 8pm - MV72018 - 02-17-2023

(02-17-2023, 10:57 PM)TheWildJacko Wrote: We win. Cam sets the career record for blocks in her junior season. Meanwhile MV72018 is going for the record of most negative comments in a 10-minute span during a top-25 win.

There are many rose-colored-glasses cheerleaders here; in contrast, I offer a realistic perspective on our performance, backed up with FACTs, not illusions. I do hope that the team and head coach learn and get better so that the Cardinal can represent well against solid competition at the Big Dance. I'd love to see them win it all this year. But what I am seeing is not encouraging. You can skip my posts easily if critical analysis is not to your liking. We have the talent, I'd like to see it optimized.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. USC Friday 8pm - old spanish trail - 02-17-2023

(02-17-2023, 10:57 PM)TheWildJacko Wrote: We win. Cam sets the career record for blocks in her junior season. Meanwhile MV72018 is going for the record of most negative comments in a 10-minute span during a top-25 win.

Lol, Jacko

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. USC Friday 8pm - TheWildJacko - 02-17-2023

(02-17-2023, 11:06 PM)MV72018 Wrote:
(02-17-2023, 10:57 PM)TheWildJacko Wrote: We win. Cam sets the career record for blocks in her junior season. Meanwhile MV72018 is going for the record of most negative comments in a 10-minute span during a top-25 win.

There are many rose-colored-glasses cheerleaders here; in contrast, I offer a realistic perspective on our performance, backed up with FACTs, not illusions. I do hope that the team and head coach learn and get better so that the Cardinal can represent well against solid competition at the Big Dance. I'd love to see them win it all this year. But what I am seeing is not encouraging. You can skip my posts easily if critical analysis is not to your liking. We have the talent, I'd like to see it optimized.

Critical analysis is one thing. Comments like “pathetic” and “embarrassing” and “can anyone truthfully say Tara is an excellent end-of-game coach?” are not that. They’re just negative sentiment.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. USC Friday 8pm - Hieronymus - 02-17-2023

(02-17-2023, 11:04 PM)BosCard Wrote: Ugly game. Our 3 leading scorers shot the ball horribly 10 for 34. But the defense was enough to win. Disappointed but still hopeful for the tournament. Two years ago we really stunk it up on offense in the final four and the national championship and we still won.

I mostly agree though it is asking a lot to beat 4 or 5 good teams in the tournament this way. It just takes 1-2 players to get hot in a game to knock your out when you have to rely on defense this heavily. We will need some luck and better concentration/effort levels.

Last thought for the night: somebody earlier was asking what the rebounding problem was, and I would have said both the free for all at the bucket with the bigs and the guards not rebounding well on the scramble. But I am putting that now as 80/20 on the guards. Lepolo, Emma, and Jump combined for… 2 rebounds. Nivar at least had 4. That is terrible. Period. And a full disaster in a game like this where the ball ended up loose all second half. USC guards had 17 in comparison.

RE: WBB: Stanford 50 -- USC 47 - cardfan1996 - 02-17-2023

Who is responsible for today’s scout? What about the prior game vs USC? Seems like the same person. No real adjustments on offense except they played Nivar more and good thing they did because without her points, Stanford loses to USC without USC’s best player (Rayah) after losing to USC without their second best player at the time (Sissoko).

Bosgana’s skillset would help vs defensive teams. Agnes and Lepolo cannot help in games like this because they don’t have the skillset.

RE: WBB: Stanford 50 -- USC 47 - jonnyss - 02-17-2023

regarding saving time outs, perhaps tara is keeping in mind the south carolina game when we ran out of time outs and got a t for calling one with none left.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. USC Friday 8pm - cardfan1996 - 02-17-2023

(02-17-2023, 10:54 PM)MV72018 Wrote: Can anyone truthfully say that Tara is an excellent end-of-game coach?

We escape with a paltry 3-point win. They would have tied it if that last shot had gone in.

We are not a very good team against athletic opponents.

No one on this team takes it to the rim with authority and finishes..

Another lackluster game for Haley Jones. 4 for 14 from the field. Brink not much better: 4 for 12.

Take away Nivar's superb 4 for 4 shooting, and we shot a resoundingly mediocre 17 for 55 from the field, which is 30.9%.

If we get there, to the National Championship game and SC is there, I'd rate our chances of being Dawn's team at 10% at best.

Tara has not been a good end of game coach for a very long time. A very long time ago she was actually pretty masterful end of game coach. Knew how to use her timeouts and fouls and run quick hitters. But that was a very long time ago. I don’t know what happened.

RE: WBB: Stanford 50 -- USC 47 - Softball Fan - 02-17-2023

What was the strategy behind playing Prechtel for one minute in the first half? Was that a pre-game planned decision or did Prechtel really mess up in a way I didn't recognize?

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. USC Friday 8pm - 81alum - 02-18-2023

(02-17-2023, 10:50 PM)martyup Wrote:
(02-17-2023, 10:46 PM)M T Wrote: Are these USC O-boards due to failure to block out? I can imagine that being part of it, but I am only listening to audio.

No, mostly it's the ball coming hard off the rim and the refs refusing to call fouls. They are over the back mugging our players on every rebound.

+1 +1 +1

The character of this game was determined by the officiating. You may all remember the earlier post where I said a loosely called game would favor SC by neutralizing our offense. And what did we get? Refs who let almost anything go. Half as many fouls called as in an average game, and this was no average game. Fortunately, we can mug with the best of them, and so we got two teams beating on each other, going over the back regularly, grabbing and holding anyone going inside. It was very obvious from courtside.

Credit should be given to Tara for figuring out how to defend Littleton, who killed us in the first quarter and then was held in check the rest of the game. Holding USC to 0/7 from three point range in the 4th quarter was very important. Our defense, after the first, was admirable for the most part: giving up 9, 11, and 10 points. We out-USC'd USC. We held them to 22% shooting. I wonder if that is a record low. Our 9 blocks, including 6 by Brink, were a big part of that.

We also kept our turnovers down and USC got fewer steals off us than in the last game. Our ball handling, while far from perfect, improved.

On the other hand, giving up 20 O-boards was horrific. But some of this was poor officiating and allowing countless over-the-backs and pushing and shoving with no consequences. But we were allowed to do it too, and we did not cheat quite as well as USC did.

It was easy to see that the team has worked on getting Jump open off screens. She was set up well on quite a few occasions. Unfortunately, she is only a deadly sharpshooter when she catch-and-shoots from a stationary position. When she has to move laterally behind a screen and shoot her accuracy is greatly hampered. Other teams know this.

Nivar has to be a very bright spot in this ugly win. 4/4, and very aggressive at going for O-boards and put backs. She even had a block. She got 26 minutes to Lepolo's 17, so Tara thinks she is progressing, quite clearly. When USC was pressing, Tara had both Lepolo and Nivar in for ball handling.

In the chalk talk, Kate Paye made many insightful comments in respond to a range of questions. She pointed out that the first time we played USC we had a compressed time to prepare, since we were going from a late Friday game to an early Sunday game. She also noted that many of the USC players were transfers we had never played against before. It sounded to me almost as if she was taking responsibility for not producing an adequate scout and preparing the team the first time around, and she did not mince words about how poor our performance was. But I left that talk thinking that the coaching staff had corrected those issues, we had adequate time, we had played these players before, and I was pretty confident that we would excel tonight. When I learned that Raya Marshall would not start--and apparently did not make the trip--I thought the possibility of a blowout was real.

Well, despite the positives on defense, our offense stagnated again against USC. Well, we did score 4 more points against them, but clearly the USC defense knows how to shut down Jones and keep Brink and Jump in check. In the first game Lepolo had 9 points, 0 in this game. Nivar in the first game had 2 points, 9 in this game. Offense seems to have switched from one guard to the next, but an approximate wash.

Jump first game: 0/5, 0/3 from three point range. Second game: 2/8 overall, 2/8 from three.

Brink first game: 3/14 for 11 points. Second game: 4/12 for 12 points.

Jones first game: 3/13 for 8 points. Second game: 4/14 for 8 points.

Here is an interesting stat. In the first game we were called for 23 fouls and USC 9. Second game: Stanford 9 and USC 10.

Point differential from free throws: First game USC + 9; Second game: USC + 6. It is unfathomable that given how USC plays defense that they should come out on top in points scored from free throws in both games.

We have 3 more very difficult games in the regular season, then probably a repeat of most of those same games against the same opponents in the Pac 12 tourney. I fully expect to have to play USC a third time. While I am disappointed with our lack of offensive progress, the outcome was a whole lot better than last time, and a win is a win. And after this slugfest, I think I have to believe that WE have the best defense in the Pac-12. We should be well prepared for Colorado.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. USC Friday 8pm - cardfan1996 - 02-18-2023

(02-17-2023, 11:15 PM)Hieronymus Wrote:
(02-17-2023, 11:04 PM)BosCard Wrote: Ugly game. Our 3 leading scorers shot the ball horribly 10 for 34. But the defense was enough to win. Disappointed but still hopeful for the tournament. Two years ago we really stunk it up on offense in the final four and the national championship and we still won.
I mostly agree though it is asking a lot to beat 4 or 5 good teams in the tournament this way. It just takes 1-2 players to get hot in a game to knock your out when you have to rely on defense this heavily. We will need some luck and better concentration/effort levels.

Last thought for the night: somebody earlier was asking what the rebounding problem was, and I would have said both the free for all at the bucket with the bigs and the guards not rebounding well on the scramble. But I am putting that now as 80/20 on the guards. Lepolo, Emma, and Jump combined for… 2 rebounds. Nivar at least had 4. That is terrible. Period. And a full disaster in a game like this where the ball ended up loose all second half. USC guards had 17 in comparison.

I’ve said in prior threads that Lepolo, Hannah and Agnes do NOT rebound and it is usually horrible decision to play them together.

Lepolo just freezes and stares at balls coming her direction

Hannah is already running to the other end of the court even when the ball is coming directly at her

Agnes - who knows? She consistently goes after the offensive boards when she should be back in transition defense.

None of them block out.

And that is why I’ve been advocating for Nivar and Bosgana since November. It took an injury for Nivar to even get a chance and best believe, Stanford would have lost this game as well as Utah had Nivar not played. I don’t think I’m going to get Bosgana. Agnes gives Tara enough “fool’s gold” to keep her minutes and Bosgana gets none.

(02-17-2023, 11:37 PM)WVB Fan Wrote: What was the strategy behind playing Prechtel for one minute in the first half? Was that a pre-game planned decision or did Prechtel really mess up in a way I didn't recognize?

Again I was hoping Tara recognizing she was holding the team back would lead to an uptick in Ashten’s minutes. She is playing even less in favor of Betts and Fran.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. USC Friday 8pm - 81alum - 02-18-2023

(02-16-2023, 11:54 AM)warren65 Wrote: Does anyone know about Rayah Marshall's availability for Friday's game?
She played 28 minutes on Sunday in the Oregon State game. She came out late in the third quarter, never to return again. The announcers were speculating that she was injured when she took a seat at the end of the bench. Given the tightness of this overtime game, it's fair to assume that injury was a factor.

Warren, Rayah Marshall clearly did not make the trip, and we still had issues. This is troubling to me, given that she is one of their two best defenders.

(02-15-2023, 04:26 PM)81alum Wrote:
(02-15-2023, 03:51 AM)M T Wrote: A big aspect of the game that can't be scouted is the refs. Tight or loose? Benefit to the home team or not?
Good point MT. If both offenses were left free to roam and operate as they would like--meaning a closely called game that restrains both defenses--then I think we win easily. Our offense flourishes with lots of movement and lots of assists.

If the refs "let both sides play" and call very few fouls then I think things become somewhat equalized. That would play into USC's natural strength. We can be strong and physical on defense too, but a sumo-wrestling or WWF style basketball game would neutralize our offensive strengths.

USC knows this so I imagine they will commit lots and lots of fouls, and just dare the refs to call them all. Colorado has done that for years--overload the fouling so much that it tends to normalize itself as the game goes on. Some of those games get to the point where one would think only an overhead body slam would get called.

Quoting myself here, but it bears repeating. We got the worst possible kind of officiating and we still managed to pull out a victory.

RE: WBB: Stanford 50 -- USC 47 - chimera - 02-18-2023

Well that was something, what I don't know, but it was something. Crowd was big, great to see. Too bad they got one of the ugliest games I've ever seen (an exaggeration maybe but maybe not). Ref were awful, terrible, bad, you name it. USC was setting "screens" that were more like sorta set, and then scootch over, scootch over, scootch over into the defender, no calls. They were banging and pushing and grabbing and over the back, no calls. That doesn't excuse the way we dropped balls out of bounds, failed to grab rebounds, failed to box out, blew bunnies, etc.

Littleton is one of my least favorite players ever after watching this show. Whining, flinging her arms around like she was mugged when anyone was near her, all that good stuff. USC's offense is wretched and screw Gottlieb and staff for subjecting us to it. They don't shoot threes well but were canning them early to stay in the game. We got up 11 and should have pulled away a bit but got sloppy and let them make it a slog. Ick. Double ick.

I thought the subbing was a bit manic and not always on point. We watched Jump hit about 15 threes in a row, nothing but net in the half time warm ups but she was just 2-8 in the game, and they were open shots. If the schemes work that hard to free her, she has to can them better, and she definitely can do that. If she hit her open threes in the 3rd quarter we go up 15 and it is game over given USC couldn't score except threes and those cooled off in the second half with our defense doing better also. At least the defense was ok once we stopped letting them bomb threes even though they mostly suck at that.

I don't know what to think at this point. It was so hard to get the ball inside. They were draped all over our posts and were shoving like mad to keep them out of position, which worked too well. We got the posts the ball too far out a few times. Jones missed Betts the time or two she had a great seal and position.

I am going to forget I ever saw this game. If we play well and beat UCLA, I will chalk this game up to crap refs, an overly physical team/game (Boooooo Gottlieb), and maybe the pink uniforms. USC is really not a good team. They have a terrible offense. They can take all their transfers and head on home. Yes, they annoy me. Booo, says cranky fan who felt like hiding my eyes most of the 4th quarter.