Outside Topic 2022 Giants thread - Printable Version
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RE: 2022 Giants thread - OutsiderFan - 09-29-2022
There are always exceptions, but in general you land the most coveted free agents by paying the most money for whom you are bidding. I don't want to hear excuses about why the Giants can't sign Trea Turner or whoever else is in high demand. Just get it done. If this means paying $10M more than the second highest bidder, so be it. Make an offer that can't be refused.
I would like to experience just one off season - this year - where Giants fans don't pull out the "we were close" card to excuse the team for failing to sign their top targets. It's been decades since the Giants won a bidding war for a top of market free agent in high demand that wasn't a Pitcher. It is time to make it happen.
RE: 2022 Giants thread - cardcrimson - 09-29-2022
(09-29-2022, 05:59 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: in general you land the most coveted free agents by paying the most money for whom you are bidding.
Brilliant.
RE: 2022 Giants thread - BostonCard - 09-29-2022
(09-29-2022, 06:46 AM)cardcrimson Wrote:(09-29-2022, 05:59 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: in general you land the most coveted free agents by paying the most money for whom you are bidding.
Brilliant.
Hence the “winner’s curse” https://www.investopedia.com/terms/w/winnerscurse.asp
BC
RE: 2022 Giants thread - Mick - 09-29-2022
(09-29-2022, 05:59 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: There are always exceptions, but in general you land the most coveted free agents by paying the most money for whom you are bidding. I don't want to hear excuses about why the Giants can't sign Trea Turner or whoever else is in high demand. Just get it done. If this means paying $10M more than the second highest bidder, so be it. Make an offer that can't be refused.
I would like to experience just one off season - this year - where Giants fans don't pull out the "we were close" card to excuse the team for failing to sign their top targets. It's been decades since the Giants won a bidding war for a top of market free agent in high demand that wasn't a Pitcher. It is time to make it happen.
I really hope the Giants understand how tired the fans are of finishing #2.
I know they have propeller heads galore in the front office. Here's some easy and basic math: this year, the Giants averaged about a million fans less than they did over the past 20 years. If you get a hot free agent or two, the Barry Bonds of the day, so to speak, the fans will Judge the front office with their feet; e.g., 1 million more fans at $40/ticket, with $20 each spent on food, souvenirs, etc. That's $60 million extra, which should pay for some first-rate free agents.
Go get 'em, Gang Farhan...
RE: 2022 Giants thread - BobK - 09-30-2022
The Giants are now at 500.
Rumors are Judge to SF. What are the odds ?
RE: 2022 Giants thread - lex24 - 09-30-2022
(09-30-2022, 06:57 AM)BobK Wrote: The Giants are now at 500.
Rumors are Judge to SF. What are the odds ?
Slim and none. And Slim just walked out…. I just dont see it.
(09-29-2022, 08:50 PM)Mick Wrote:(09-29-2022, 05:59 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: There are always exceptions, but in general you land the most coveted free agents by paying the most money for whom you are bidding. I don't want to hear excuses about why the Giants can't sign Trea Turner or whoever else is in high demand. Just get it done. If this means paying $10M more than the second highest bidder, so be it. Make an offer that can't be refused.
I would like to experience just one off season - this year - where Giants fans don't pull out the "we were close" card to excuse the team for failing to sign their top targets. It's been decades since the Giants won a bidding war for a top of market free agent in high demand that wasn't a Pitcher. It is time to make it happen.
I really hope the Giants understand how tired the fans are of finishing #2.
I know they have propeller heads galore in the front office. Here's some easy and basic math: this year, the Giants averaged about a million fans less than they did over the past 20 years. If you get a hot free agent or two, the Barry Bonds of the day, so to speak, the fans will Judge the front office with their feet; e.g., 1 million more fans at $40/ticket, with $20 each spent on food, souvenirs, etc. That's $60 million extra, which should pay for some first-rate free agents.
Go get 'em, Gang Farhan...
$20 on food etc? I’m guessing the average is twice that.
RE: 2022 Giants thread - Giants - 09-30-2022
No way Judge leaves NY after a record tying/potentially breaking season. Yankee fans would (figuratively) explode….
The Yanks have the money to pay whatever it would cost to keep him.
Realistically, one of the premier SS’s (Swanson/Turner/Correa) should be the top target with Rodon a close second.
And, of course, what to do re: Belt/Peterson.
SF has no power hitting 1B waiting in the wings. I’m not sure the Giants have much choice. Resigning BB to a one year deal might be in everyone’s best interest.
As for Peterson, resign him ONLY if the plan is to use him exclusively as a left handed DH.
RE: 2022 Giants thread - lex24 - 09-30-2022
(09-30-2022, 02:09 PM)Giants Wrote: No way Judge leaves NY after a record tying/potentially breaking season. Yankee fans would (figuratively) explode….
The Yanks have the money to pay whatever it would cost to keep him.
Realistically, one of the premier SS’s (Swanson/Turner/Correa) should be the top target with Rodon a close second.
And, of course, what to do re: Belt/Peterson.
SF has no power hitting 1B waiting in the wings. I’m not sure the Giants have much choice. Resigning BB to a one year deal might be in everyone’s best interest.
As for Peterson, resign him ONLY if the plan is to use him exclusively as a left handed DH.
I think you are probably right on Judge. I also believe,however, that he will test the market. Yankees had their chance and low balled him. So, maybe he wants to move on.
I’d be shocked if they signed Rodon. He’s a power pitcher. It will take at least $110,000,000 over 5. I don’t see the Giants going 5 years for a 30 year old power pitcher.
Belt is easy. If he is able to play, Giants will be able to sign him to a cheap one year deal. There won’t be much competition.
Pederson I’d let go. He left a sour taste with his recent comments. Plus if BB comes back, I suspect he will be DHing quite a bit.
The Giants have the money to do whatever they want. They can sign both Judge and a SS. And still have room for other deals. That would add about $70,00,000 to the payroll. They have about $50,000,000 coming off the books
RE: 2022 Giants thread - Mick - 09-30-2022
Giants are six games back of the Phillies with six to play. Assuming the Brewers don't make it, the Giants win six straight and the Phillies lose six straight, they'll both finish 84-78. And this year, for the first time in (a while), head to head records determine the playoff entrant...and the Giants have a 5-1 record against the Phillies.
So you're telling me there's a chance...
Dumb and Dumber 'There's a Chance' - YouTube
RE: 2022 Giants thread - Giants - 09-30-2022
(09-30-2022, 05:08 PM)lex24 Wrote:(09-30-2022, 02:09 PM)Giants Wrote: No way Judge leaves NY after a record tying/potentially breaking season. Yankee fans would (figuratively) explode….
The Yanks have the money to pay whatever it would cost to keep him.
Realistically, one of the premier SS’s (Swanson/Turner/Correa) should be the top target with Rodon a close second.
And, of course, what to do re: Belt/Peterson.
SF has no power hitting 1B waiting in the wings. I’m not sure the Giants have much choice. Resigning BB to a one year deal might be in everyone’s best interest.
As for Peterson, resign him ONLY if the plan is to use him exclusively as a left handed DH.
I think you are probably right on Judge. I also believe,however, that he will test the market. Yankees had their chance and low balled him. So, maybe he wants to move on.
I’d be shocked if they signed Rodon. He’s a power pitcher. It will take at least $110,000,000 over 5. I don’t see the Giants going 5 years for a 30 year old power pitcher.
Belt is easy. If he is able to play, Giants will be able to sign him to a cheap one year deal. There won’t be much competition.
Pederson I’d let go. He left a sour taste with his recent comments. Plus if BB comes back, I suspect he will be DHing quite a bit.
The Giants have the money to do whatever they want. They can sign both Judge and a SS. And still have room for other deals. That would add about $70,00,000 to the payroll. They have about $50,000,000 coming off the books
Yep, the Giants have the money. And yep, Judge will test the market. However, given his amazing season, the Yankees have been boxed into a corner. The only way out is outbidding the competition. The Steinbrenner brothers have no realistic choice other than to open their collective wallet.
RE: 2022 Giants thread - lex24 - 10-01-2022
(09-30-2022, 08:07 PM)Giants Wrote:(09-30-2022, 05:08 PM)lex24 Wrote:(09-30-2022, 02:09 PM)Giants Wrote: No way Judge leaves NY after a record tying/potentially breaking season. Yankee fans would (figuratively) explode….
The Yanks have the money to pay whatever it would cost to keep him.
Realistically, one of the premier SS’s (Swanson/Turner/Correa) should be the top target with Rodon a close second.
And, of course, what to do re: Belt/Peterson.
SF has no power hitting 1B waiting in the wings. I’m not sure the Giants have much choice. Resigning BB to a one year deal might be in everyone’s best interest.
As for Peterson, resign him ONLY if the plan is to use him exclusively as a left handed DH.
I think you are probably right on Judge. I also believe,however, that he will test the market. Yankees had their chance and low balled him. So, maybe he wants to move on.
I’d be shocked if they signed Rodon. He’s a power pitcher. It will take at least $110,000,000 over 5. I don’t see the Giants going 5 years for a 30 year old power pitcher.
Belt is easy. If he is able to play, Giants will be able to sign him to a cheap one year deal. There won’t be much competition.
Pederson I’d let go. He left a sour taste with his recent comments. Plus if BB comes back, I suspect he will be DHing quite a bit.
The Giants have the money to do whatever they want. They can sign both Judge and a SS. And still have room for other deals. That would add about $70,00,000 to the payroll. They have about $50,000,000 coming off the books
Yep, the Giants have the money. And yep, Judge will test the market. However, given his amazing season, the Yankees have been boxed into a corner. The only way out is outbidding the competition. The Steinbrenner brothers have no realistic choice other than to open their collective wallet.
True. But Dream a little. Maybe he wants to play close to home. Maybe he wants out of NY. Giants can match or beat the money. They don’t have near as much tied up as the Yankees.
RE: 2022 Giants thread - BobK - 10-01-2022
Belt has bad knees. I want Joc back
I really want Rodon back. If all this money the Geesh sign our top pitcher
RE: 2022 Giants thread - Mick - 10-01-2022
(10-01-2022, 08:45 AM)BobK Wrote: Belt has bad knees. I want Joc back
I really want Rodon back. If all this money the Geesh sign our top pitcher
Thoughts for 2023:
1. Current payroll for the signed players for 2023 (Crawford, Wood, DeSclafani, LaStella, Cobb and Flores) is $103 mms., and that includes Rodon's player option at $22 mms., which he will likely forego. So call it $82 million current 2023 comp for those five players.
2. I suspect the Giants may eat 34 year old La Stella's contract
3. Rodon is 30 right now, and will likely get 5 years at $110mms. to $130 mms.
4. I'm guessing the Giants will re-sign Longoria at $13 mms.
5. I don't know that I want Belt back. He's played less than 100 games each of the last three years, 226 total in those three years, with declining OPS in each one, culminating in a career-low .676 this year. Jason Vosler can do that a whole lot cheaper. And he made $18.4 million this year. Whatever he wants will be too much.
6. Bart, Doval, Gonzalez, Llovera, Long, Santos, Szapucki, Vosler, Walton, Wynns are all pre-arb; Brebbia, JD Davis, Garcia, Junis and Slater are all Arb 3; Cotton is Arb 2; Estrada, Rogers, Wade, Webb, Yastrzemski and Young are all Arb 1.
7. Giants payroll this year was $165 mms. with another $21 mms. in applicable comp of one form or another, luxury tax was $230 mms. Dodgers tax allocation was $283 mms., $53 mms. north of the luxury tax threshold.
I think we need at least two new starters and probably three, long-ish term plays after Crawford and Longoria are done this year, a new 1B. Be nice to get a power-hitting outfielder, maybe one who currently plays in the Bronx. I think we'll need four excellent relievers. Call it 10-13 new players, and at least three well-paid stars.
RE: 2022 Giants thread - old spanish trail - 10-01-2022
Why is everyone so hot to sign a new ss when the Gyros need two heavy hitting of's and at least two big time pitchers. Crawford's age showed midseason when he had trouble recovering from his knee issue but, once he did, his fielding was good as ever, and hitting about his career average. Yes, there are some big ss available, but I hang on to Crawford, and cross fingers for Luciano, and buy elsewhere.
RE: 2022 Giants thread - OutsiderFan - 10-01-2022
The rules changes next year will put a premium on speed, range and getting on base that Brandon Crawford doesn't provide. I'm not going to say anything more about Trea Turner, having made my points about him on this thread more than once.
RE: 2022 Giants thread - old spanish trail - 10-01-2022
(10-01-2022, 01:40 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: The rules changes next year will put a premium on speed, range and getting on base that Brandon Crawford doesn't provide. I'm not going to say anything more about Trea Turner, having made my points about him on this thread more than once.
I believe I've replied that Turner will sign with the Cubs, if they offer enuf, and, if not, then the Dodgers.
RE: 2022 Giants thread - lex24 - 10-01-2022
(10-01-2022, 12:57 PM)old spanish trail Wrote: Why is everyone so hot to sign a new ss when the Gyros need two heavy hitting of's and at least two big time pitchers. Crawford's age showed midseason when he had trouble recovering from his knee issue but, once he did, his fielding was good as ever, and hitting about his career average. Yes, there are some big ss available, but I hang on to Crawford, and cross fingers for Luciano, and buy elsewhere.
One major reason is that the potential FAs at SS are Tr. Turner, Correa, Swanson and Bogaerts. More talent potentially coming available at SS than any other position.
RE: 2022 Giants thread - old spanish trail - 10-01-2022
(10-01-2022, 06:12 PM)lex24 Wrote:(10-01-2022, 12:57 PM)old spanish trail Wrote: Why is everyone so hot to sign a new ss when the Gyros need two heavy hitting of's and at least two big time pitchers. Crawford's age showed midseason when he had trouble recovering from his knee issue but, once he did, his fielding was good as ever, and hitting about his career average. Yes, there are some big ss available, but I hang on to Crawford, and cross fingers for Luciano, and buy elsewhere.
One major reason is that the potential FAs at SS are Tr. Turner, Correa, Swanson and Bogaerts. More talent potentially coming available at SS than any other position.
Right. But right now he remains one of their better players. Put all the money in the Judge offer if you believe in Luciano. I've no opinion on that.
RE: 2022 Giants thread - Giants - 10-01-2022
(10-01-2022, 11:20 PM)old spanish trail Wrote:(10-01-2022, 06:12 PM)lex24 Wrote:(10-01-2022, 12:57 PM)old spanish trail Wrote: Why is everyone so hot to sign a new ss when the Gyros need two heavy hitting of's and at least two big time pitchers. Crawford's age showed midseason when he had trouble recovering from his knee issue but, once he did, his fielding was good as ever, and hitting about his career average. Yes, there are some big ss available, but I hang on to Crawford, and cross fingers for Luciano, and buy elsewhere.
One major reason is that the potential FAs at SS are Tr. Turner, Correa, Swanson and Bogaerts. More talent potentially coming available at SS than any other position.
Right. But right now he remains one of their better players. Put all the money in the Judge offer if you believe in Luciano. I've no opinion on that.
A SS should be a high priority - Crawford only has one year left and there is no guarantee that Luciano will play SS with the Giants. He may wind up playing in the OF or another IF position.
Lastly, Judge/SS are not an either/or. In fact, they are an “and”.
RE: 2022 Giants thread - lex24 - 10-03-2022
(10-01-2022, 11:34 PM)Giants Wrote:(10-01-2022, 11:20 PM)old spanish trail Wrote:(10-01-2022, 06:12 PM)lex24 Wrote:(10-01-2022, 12:57 PM)old spanish trail Wrote: Why is everyone so hot to sign a new ss when the Gyros need two heavy hitting of's and at least two big time pitchers. Crawford's age showed midseason when he had trouble recovering from his knee issue but, once he did, his fielding was good as ever, and hitting about his career average. Yes, there are some big ss available, but I hang on to Crawford, and cross fingers for Luciano, and buy elsewhere.
One major reason is that the potential FAs at SS are Tr. Turner, Correa, Swanson and Bogaerts. More talent potentially coming available at SS than any other position.
Right. But right now he remains one of their better players. Put all the money in the Judge offer if you believe in Luciano. I've no opinion on that.
A SS should be a high priority - Crawford only has one year left and there is no guarantee that Luciano will play SS with the Giants. He may wind up playing in the OF or another IF position.
Lastly, Judge/SS are not an either/or. In fact, they are an “and”.
Now you are talking!