WBB: USC 55 Stanford 46 - Printable Version

WBB: USC 55 Stanford 46 - Printable Version

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RE: WBB: Stanford @ USC Sunday 2pm - 81alum - 01-15-2023

(01-15-2023, 09:05 PM)chimera Wrote: Maybe the whole team has the flu or something. USC sure had more energy and pace than we did. They were more aggressive by far. We seemed a step slow on offense (yuck) and defense (reaching and fouling).

I wondered this too. I also wondered if the first week of classes had an impact on our practices.

Jone is so expressive--and I don't think I saw her smiling or having fun all game. This was similar to very early in the season. When things "click" for her she is all smiles and there is a bounce in her step. The last few games have seemingly taken those away. Of course, it is hard to sort out cause from effect.

RE: WBB: USC 55 Stanford 46 - Phogge - 01-15-2023

I don’t normally watch until the Final Four. However during a lull from storm cleanup on our south 40 I looked at about five minutes. No spark, a lot of standing around and bad hands (nobody notices). You can’t just pass the ball. You have to put the pass in a place where the catcher can do something with it.

A lackadaisical effort. If the loss doesn’t piss the girls off and make them play harder next time then you have a real problem.

RE: WBB: Stanford @ USC Sunday 2pm - treetop11 - 01-16-2023

(01-15-2023, 05:33 PM)chimera Wrote: This has been brewing for a while. Shooting has been poor for the past few games, even the UA win. USC did not score a lot, but I wouldn't say our defense was very good because we fouled them over and over. For context, I recall more than a few road trips to LA or elsewhere right around this time where the games were ugly and sometimes a loss or even two (#2 ranked 2008 team lost to both USC and UCLA around the same time of year I believe). So this is not unprecedented. It is disturbing for sure.

Rebounding was poor, too many turnovers, shooting was abysmal, and nobody off the bench really provided a lift on offense. I don't know why it is so hard to score. When Brink or Iriafen or whoever is down low, gets double and triple teamed, someone has to be open. We either do not find that person, the pass is not great and the defense recovers before a shot, or the shot is missed. When teams clog the lane like USC did, we have to do more than just chuck up shots. We also need someone besides Jump, who we can't get open lately, to hit threes. It's nice when Emma-Nnopu hits one or Demetre, but we need someone who hunts her shot and makes them more consistently.

Things that concern me in no particular order:

Our depth is somewhat illusory. Betts still hasn't shown that much against the better teams. We have plenty of post depth but she is a big part of the future there, and thus far, I'm not seeing what I thought I would from her. Nivar has good energy but fouls too much and doesn't get that much run yet. Bosgana has promising moments but is not consistent and also doesn't get much run. Demetre is playing a lot, which is good, but her shooting has not come around, and while her defense has improved a lot and she has helped there, she fouled way too much this game in situations where it would have been better to back off a bit. Emma-Nnopu has had some good moments but again, can't count on offense from her. Harriel hardly plays. Who is our bench energizer? Who comes in to give the team a lift and score? We have subs who help other ways but nobody at all is really coming into games and scoring. Our deep bench is not really so deep in that respect.

The offense has stagnated too often and not just in this game. Too much holding the ball. Too many late shot clocks. The offense doesn't flow, doesn't move the ball quickly or even very purposefully it seems. We don't get into the lane, draw defense, and work around that. We can't screen Jump open much.

turnovers are still a problem. In this game when we crept close, we often turned the ball over, and some of those were just hustle plays by USC where they tipped balls and stuff. We did not seem to really focus and be sharp with the ball.

Last but not least and maybe the crux of the problem - we can't shoot from distance. We are a poor shooting team lately. Who can shoot threes? Aside from Jump Lepolo is at around 40% and then we have Bosgana and Prechtel at about 35% (all stats from before this game so the last two go down a bit I think). So we have nobody who shoots many threes who shoots them well aside from Jump, and you just can't win games this day and age that way. Now how do we solve that?

Is this a bump in the road or a sign the team has a serious issue with shooting? Wish I knew.

Mostly agree with you. Three points:

We have been going too late in the shot clock and then throwing up a prayer which is no good. Haley major culprit, spending too much time driblling on the perimeter waiting to find a lane or an open player - also little movement by other players to blame. Interesting how lately, opponents have gotten down to the last second or two on shot clock and scored.

Secondly, I see the missed shots especially threes due to both rushed shots and tired legs. I don't think my eyes deceived me erlier in the season when I saw at least 6 or 7 of our players comfortably hitting them or barely missing. They have been open lately just as much as early on (excpet for Jump), so I see the difference as two factors above. I would add that we have not done hardly anything in transition or fast breaks in recent games. Almost no run outs and easy scores or transition threes.

Third, basketball is still a game of guards. What we have witnessed are teams nullifying our height and post advantages and we don't have enough firepower on the perimeter. If we had guards forcing turnovers and doing layup drills or getting outlet passes after D rebs and fast breaking, effectively penetrating the lane, hitting pull up mid range shots, and hitting 3 pointers, our bigs would be destroying opponents. Truth is that we really only have one guard, Lepolo, that more or less of that mold. She's good, but she's a freshman having to play lots of minutes and she's not the superstar player like a few frosh we've seen over the years who can dominate. Jones is a great assist maker, but not as a guard because she doesn't make threes and teams double and triple on her. Jump is a marvelous shooter and has learned some moves but really hasn't gotten effective at it. Nivar and Harriel have potential but obviously not trusted or they would play more. Nnopu shows flashes, but not consistent. so when a team like sc essentially throws five guards at us who are quick, athletic, and pressure us, we have difficulty - we don't have the guards to counter.

RE: WBB: Stanford @ USC Sunday 2pm - 81alum - 01-16-2023

Nneka's senior year we clearly had the best inside players in the nation, with Chiney accompanying her, and a deep bench with Ruef, Greenfield, Tinkle etc. But guard play was a different story. Green and Mashore never played much, Kokenis and James were always battling injuries, which left a senior Lindy LaRoque whose three point shooting percentage declined in her senior year (24%), and point guard Amber Orrange, whose three point shot had not yet developed in her freshman year (she was 3/10 for the year.) We desperately needed three point shooting to get Nneka and Chiney more room in the paint, and it was mainly supplied by the wing. Bonnie Samuelson, Joslyn Tinkle, and Taylor Greenfield all played at the 3 and all had shooting percentages in the mid 30% range. That year, we lost only 2 games--with only a single position that was effectively shooting the three.

There has to be a way.

RE: WBB: USC 55 Stanford 46 - crackpot - 01-16-2023

Does no one remember the game at South Carolina two years ago? We were ahead steadily, then Littleton comes in in the second half and helps lead SC to the win.

RE: WBB: USC 55 Stanford 46 - Erika - 01-16-2023

(01-16-2023, 12:28 PM)crackpot Wrote: Does no one remember the game at South Carolina two years ago? We were ahead steadily, then Littleton comes in in the second half and helps lead SC to the win.

I think that was Destanni Henderson. Destany Littleton was there too but Henderson killed us.

Stanford vs. SC

RE: WBB: USC 55 Stanford 46 - crackpot - 01-16-2023

(01-16-2023, 03:34 PM)Erika Wrote:
(01-16-2023, 12:28 PM)crackpot Wrote: Does no one remember the game at South Carolina two years ago? We were ahead steadily, then Littleton comes in in the second half and helps lead SC to the win.

I think that was Destanni Henderson. Destany Littleton was there too but Henderson killed us.

Stanford vs. SC

Yeah, Henderson always scary good, but my recollection was that Littleton was nothin' in the first half but quite the surprise in the second.

RE: WBB: USC 55 Stanford 46 - M T - 01-16-2023

(01-16-2023, 08:58 PM)crackpot Wrote: Yeah, Henderson always scary good, but my recollection was that Littleton was nothin' in the first half but quite the surprise in the second.

You can check your recollection against the box score.

It is easy to miss, but if you go to the present schedule at the school's website (for most schools), you can choose which year's schedule to show.
Just change the date in the top right (usually a drop-down menu).

RE: WBB: USC 55 Stanford 46 - crackpot - 01-17-2023

(01-16-2023, 09:15 PM)M T Wrote:
(01-16-2023, 08:58 PM)crackpot Wrote: Yeah, Henderson always scary good, but my recollection was that Littleton was nothin' in the first half but quite the surprise in the second.

You can check your recollection against the box score.

It is easy to miss, but if you go to the present schedule at the school's website (for most schools), you can choose which year's schedule to show.
Just change the date in the top right (usually a drop-down menu).

Right. Littleton didn't play in the first half, but scored 6 points in the second, enough to turn the game in SC's favor.

RE: WBB: USC 55 Stanford 46 - M T - 01-17-2023

(01-17-2023, 01:19 PM)crackpot Wrote:
(01-16-2023, 09:15 PM)M T Wrote:
(01-16-2023, 08:58 PM)crackpot Wrote: Yeah, Henderson always scary good, but my recollection was that Littleton was nothin' in the first half but quite the surprise in the second.
You can check your recollection against the box score.

It is easy to miss, but if you go to the present schedule at the school's website (for most schools), you can choose which year's schedule to show.
Just change the date in the top right (usually a drop-down menu).
Right. Littleton didn't play in the first half, but scored 6 points in the second, enough to turn the game in SC's favor.

Ahh.. you said "Does no one remember the game at South Carolina two years ago?" But you apparently are thinking of the game 13 months ago (Dec. 2021), not the one two years ago (when she scored 0 in the 2nd half).

RE: WBB: USC 55 Stanford 46 - stopandpop - 01-17-2023

I have to believe that Lynn Roberts and JR Payne and their players are pouring over game film of our pathetic loss to USC and planning their own ways to try to disrupt our offense. Neither of those teams has the front court size that 'SC has (and we have), but obviously clogging the middle, and hounding Jump are tactics we may well see.

We have extensively discussed what is not working that well and what should we do differently, moving forward. Of all the suggestions, the one I like the best is shooting more mid-range shots when they're available. Haley, Cam, Kiki and Brooke are all capable with the midrange. I also heard comments suggesting that Tara doesn't like the mid-range shot. Being the streaky shooting team that we are, especially from 3, is it realistic to think that Tara and her staff will put some tweaks in our offensive game that might make a positive difference, or do you believe we're going to see more of the same and hoping the team will play with some grit?

RE: WBB: USC 55 Stanford 46 - 81alum - 01-17-2023

(01-17-2023, 03:10 PM)stopandpop Wrote: I have to believe that Lynn Roberts and JR Payne and their players are pouring over game film of our pathetic loss to USC and planning their own ways to try to disrupt our offense. Neither of those teams has the front court size that 'SC has (and we have), but obviously clogging the middle, and hounding Jump are tactics we may well see.

We have extensively discussed what is not working that well and what should we do differently, moving forward. Of all the suggestions, the one I like the best is shooting more mid-range shots when they're available. Haley, Cam, Kiki and Brooke are all capable with the midrange. I also heard comments suggesting that Tara doesn't like the mid-range shot. Being the streaky shooting team that we are, especially from 3, is it realistic to think that Tara and her staff will put some tweaks in our offensive game that might make a positive difference, or do you believe we're going to see more of the same and hoping the team will play with some grit?

I think the best way to predict Tara's response is to look at how she responded to a similar situation when our offense foundered five years ago when teams discovered that the zone disrupted us. She did wind up getting some of our players into situations to use mid range jumpers. It took several games to perfect the new "zone offense" and other teams kept using it against us the rest of the season--even some teams that did not normally play the zone. But she responded and eventually it worked.

RE: WBB: USC 55 Stanford 46 - Card10Fan - 01-17-2023

I expect the same starting 5 we’ve seen all year. Maybe a quicker substitution to get Demetre in for Iriafen. I expect we’ll play grittier and tougher all-around and we’ll have two bounce back wins as a result. Utah is great offensively but not great defensively so we’ll have to score points to beat them. Colorado is more USC like - very good defensively. I think we’ll struggle to score against them too.

RE: WBB: USC 55 Stanford 46 - OCcardinal - 01-17-2023

This result would seem to confirm that Brink playing more than 30 minutes is not the key to the team's success in tough games.

RE: WBB: USC 55 Stanford 46 - TheFarm07 - 01-17-2023

(01-17-2023, 03:23 PM)81alum Wrote:
(01-17-2023, 03:10 PM)stopandpop Wrote: I have to believe that Lynn Roberts and JR Payne and their players are pouring over game film of our pathetic loss to USC and planning their own ways to try to disrupt our offense. Neither of those teams has the front court size that 'SC has (and we have), but obviously clogging the middle, and hounding Jump are tactics we may well see.

We have extensively discussed what is not working that well and what should we do differently, moving forward. Of all the suggestions, the one I like the best is shooting more mid-range shots when they're available. Haley, Cam, Kiki and Brooke are all capable with the midrange. I also heard comments suggesting that Tara doesn't like the mid-range shot. Being the streaky shooting team that we are, especially from 3, is it realistic to think that Tara and her staff will put some tweaks in our offensive game that might make a positive difference, or do you believe we're going to see more of the same and hoping the team will play with some grit?
I think the best way to predict Tara's response is to look at how she responded to a similar situation when our offense foundered five years ago when teams discovered that the zone disrupted us. She did wind up getting some of our players into situations to use mid range jumpers. It took several games to perfect the new "zone offense" and other teams kept using it against us the rest of the season--even some teams that did not normally play the zone. But she responded and eventually it worked.

We'll have to see on Friday evening. I am hoping that Tara is busy implementing the tweaks right now, going over different gameplans and plays with her staff and having the team practice them. While Utah won't be as tough defensively, we'll have to still put more than 50 points on the board against their offense, so we'll see if we can do so.

RE: WBB: USC 55 Stanford 46 - chimera - 01-17-2023

It is not a bad time to tinker. Team has the next two weekends at home, so no travel days, more time to fix stuff perhaps.

RE: WBB: USC 55 Stanford 46 - MV72018 - 01-17-2023

After a pathetic game against USC, it's time for Tara to step up and make some serious changes in the O. Just tinkering with the status quo is not acceptable if she wants to make a run for the Championship. How the heck can a team both double Brink down low AND blanket Jump and other three-point shooters? Part of the answer is Jones's poor shooting. She also needs to step it up bigtime on O and move beyond her dismal field goal shooting the last three games -- 3 for 14, 6 for 16, and 3 for 13 (amounting to 12 for 43 or 27.9%) and no three pointers -- to something at least at the 40% level. Not only did Stanford score only 4 points in Q1, we scored only 15, 14, and 13 in the other three quarters! I'd consider giving Belibi, Agnes, Talana, and/or Elena more time to show what they can do. It doesn't look to me like even the starters have mastered crisp passing and ball screening. That's inexcusable at this point in the season. Let's see if there are personnel shifts, new strategies, and a significant improvement in caliber of play against Utah and Colorado.

RE: WBB: Stanford @ USC Sunday 2pm - TonyLima - 01-17-2023

(01-15-2023, 07:05 PM)M T Wrote:
(01-15-2023, 06:38 PM)TonyLima Wrote: Now taking odds that Betts enters the transfer portal after this season.

Only if her goal is to be a big fish in a small pond.

ISWYDT.

RE: WBB: USC 55 Stanford 46 - stopandpop - 01-17-2023

(01-17-2023, 06:21 PM)MV72018 Wrote: After a pathetic game against USC, it's time for Tara to step up and make some serious changes in the O. Just tinkering with the status quo is not acceptable if she wants to make a run for the Championship. How the heck can a team both double Brink down low AND blanket Jump and other three-point shooters? Part of the answer is Jones's poor shooting. She also needs to step it up bigtime on O and move beyond her dismal field goal shooting the last three games -- 3 for 14, 6 for 16, and 3 for 13 (amounting to 12 for 43 or 27.9%) and no three pointers -- to something at least at the 40% level. Not only did Stanford score only 4 points in Q1, we scored only 15, 14, and 13 in the other three quarters! I'd consider giving Belibi, Agnes, Talana, and/or Elena more time to show what they can do. It doesn't look to me like even the starters have mastered crisp passing and ball screening. That's inexcusable at this point in the season. Let's see if there are personnel shifts, new strategies, and a significant improvement in caliber of play against Utah and Colorado.

In reflection, the way we lost to USC might have been the best thing for the team to experience at this (still early) stage of Conference play. If nothing else, I'm certain (on Friday) the team will come out with a high level of energy and purpose. Will that alone be enough to give us the win? Not sure. I still worry about our shooting. But if Haley and/or Cam put together an 'All-American game', that will power us over the Utes.

RE: WBB: USC 55 Stanford 46 - Softball Fan - 01-17-2023

(01-17-2023, 06:21 PM)MV72018 Wrote: After a pathetic game against USC, it's time for Tara to step up and make some serious changes in the O. Just tinkering with the status quo is not acceptable if she wants to make a run for the Championship. How the heck can a team both double Brink down low AND blanket Jump and other three-point shooters? Part of the answer is Jones's poor shooting. She also needs to step it up bigtime on O and move beyond her dismal field goal shooting the last three games -- 3 for 14, 6 for 16, and 3 for 13 (amounting to 12 for 43 or 27.9%) and no three pointers -- to something at least at the 40% level. Not only did Stanford score only 4 points in Q1, we scored only 15, 14, and 13 in the other three quarters! I'd consider giving Belibi, Agnes, Talana, and/or Elena more time to show what they can do. It doesn't look to me like even the starters have mastered crisp passing and ball screening. That's inexcusable at this point in the season. Let's see if there are personnel shifts, new strategies, and a significant improvement in caliber of play against Utah and Colorado.

This loss should result in the team getting better. Probably not too much would change in strategy if the result was a W. I anticipate Tara and staff will at least consider some substantial changes. I wouldn't count on the shooting getting that much better although it probably will for at least one of the two upcoming games. The end of season challenge is a team has to win six straight games in the NCAA tournament to win an NC.

I'm confident Tara and staff will figure out the best use of talent by tournament time. I don't have the answers. Looking forward to this weekend's games to see what the staff comes up with.