WBB: the NCAA tournament - Printable Version
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RE: WBB: the NCAA tournament - chimera - 03-25-2023
What I noticed about the games is that most offenses featured a lot more driving than we do, and not only by super speedy players. Many players took the initiative when they had a lane. Also many teams shot far more mid-range stuff than we typically do. I can't say how many they made or if that was the right thing to do. Does make me wonder if our offense will not be really great unless we are much more aggressive going to the basket and that means almost every player. You don't need to be special to drive well. You need the mentality, the right skills, which can be learned, and a scheme that works.
My initial thought about the conference was that conference was deep with a lot of very good teams, but the top was weak. Lots of good, not much great. NCAAs have borne that out. Unless UCLA pulls off a miracle against South Carolina, the conference will have no team in the E8.
Pili is a very, very good player. She deserved her conference POY. She is not really an elite post though. She is not at the level of the POY of the other P5 conferences like Boston, Clark, etc. If Pili is your best conference player, something is not quite what it needs to be. Again, not knocking Pili. She had a fantastic season and is a very good player. She is not a WNBA star in waiting though. The conference was not all it was cracked up to be at the top. For depth it was the best.
RE: WBB: the NCAA tournament - Card10Fan - 03-25-2023
(03-25-2023, 08:21 AM)chimera Wrote: What I noticed about the games is that most offenses featured a lot more driving than we do, and not only by super speedy players. Many players took the initiative when they had a lane. Also many teams shot far more mid-range stuff than we typically do. I can't say how many they made or if that was the right thing to do. Does make me wonder if our offense will not be really great unless we are much more aggressive going to the basket and that means almost every player. You don't need to be special to drive well. You need the mentality, the right skills, which can be learned, and a scheme that works.
This is a good observation. The teams that are winning are aggressive and committed to attacking the basket. There is no passive play or predictable slow it down offense. It also feels like most teams still alive have coaches that allow their players to use their skill sets and just play. I think we became way too system focused this year and probably the players felt if they drove and missed and that wasn't the play, they would be subbed out. A little more freedom to just read, react, attack and just play might have been beneficial.
Watching ND/Maryand - no Jenna Brown so far in this game. Looking forward to UCLA/SC and Uconn/Ohio State today. Hoping for some upsets especially Uconn losing.
RE: WBB: the NCAA tournament - TheFarm07 - 03-25-2023
(03-25-2023, 09:57 AM)Card10Fan Wrote: This is a good observation. The teams that are winning are aggressive and committed to attacking the basket. There is no passive play or predictable slow it down offense. It also feels like most teams still alive have coaches that allow their players to use their skill sets and just play. I think we became way too system focused this year and probably the players felt if they drove and missed and that wasn't the play, they would be subbed out. A little more freedom to just read, react, attack and just play might have been beneficial.
Tying your observation back to previous commentary about recruiting, I don't think it might be too big of a stretch to potentially connect this limitation with perhaps being a common factor among the elite guards choosing elsewhere (not saying it's the only criteria but it could influence it). If I was a highly ranked guard who has had success creating plays on my own and using my talent to create my own shot and then seeing a system where I would be limited in utilizing these skills, I would be inclined to pick a program that would let me to continue to do so.
RE: WBB: the NCAA tournament - WBB fan - 03-25-2023
As Notre Dame / Maryland game winds down, Jenna Brown has just come in, about a minute to go. She made a basket. Interesting that she ends her WBB career at Notre Dame, the school she originally committed to before she de-committed and switched to Stanford. Glad to see her go out on a positive note with that basket. As for the game, I have mixed feelings about the outcome, Maryland winning 76-59. I might have been strongly for Maryland if the brackets were different, with potential for Maryland to meet LSU and Angle Reese before the national final, unlikely that either will get there. Had Reese not transferred from Maryland to LSU, I think that Maryland would have had a legitimate shot at being competitive with S Carolina.
RE: WBB: the NCAA tournament - 81alum - 03-25-2023
(03-25-2023, 10:43 AM)WBB fan Wrote: As Notre Dame / Maryland game winds down, Jenna Brown has just come in, about a minute to go. She made a basket. Interesting that she ends her WBB career at Notre Dame, the school she originally committed to before she de-committed and switched to Stanford. Glad to see her go out on a positive note with that basket. As for the game, I have mixed feelings about the outcome, Maryland winning 76-59. I might have been strongly for Maryland if the brackets were different, with potential for Maryland to meet LSU and Angle Reese before the national final, unlikely that either will get there. Had Reese not transferred from Maryland to LSU, I think that Maryland would have had a legitimate shot at being competitive with S Carolina.She averaged 8 mpg for Notre Dame. Doesn't she have another year of eligibility left, at least? She played two for us and one for Notre Dame, so if her MA is not finished yet, couldn't she come back for another year, almost Wilson-like? And that would not involve a COVID year. Unless I am not remembering correctly....
(03-25-2023, 10:07 AM)TheFarm07 Wrote: Tying your observation back to previous commentary about recruiting, I don't think it might be too big of a stretch to potentially connect this limitation with perhaps being a common factor among the elite guards choosing elsewhere (not saying it's the only criteria but it could influence it). If I was a highly ranked guard who has had success creating plays on my own and using my talent to create my own shot and then seeing a system where I would be limited in utilizing these skills, I would be inclined to pick a program that would let me to continue to do so.I wonder about the chicken/egg phenomenon. Do we not run more aggressive guard play because we don't have aggressive guards, or is a non-aggressive style of guard play the reason we have not recruited aggressive guards?
I'm more inclined to think the former. We've had many highly aggressive guards in the Tara era--Lexie and Williams most recently, McPhee and Thompson a little further back, and of course all the distant greats like Wiggins, Pohlen, Azzi, etc.--so it is hard to believe that Tara is averse to this.
I'm Hoping Courtney Ogden next year will bring that attitude and skillset--although she is a 2-3/wing more like Lexie. I'm also hoping that Tara's rule that freshman to sophomore development marks the greatest improvement holds true for Lepolo and Nivar. And while I am most optimistic about Ogden, Agara or Clardy could surprise us and challenge Lepolo or Nivar.
RE: WBB: the NCAA tournament - Maple Leaf - 03-25-2023
(03-25-2023, 11:07 AM)81alum Wrote:(03-25-2023, 10:43 AM)WBB fan Wrote: As Notre Dame / Maryland game winds down, Jenna Brown has just come in, about a minute to go. She made a basket. Interesting that she ends her WBB career at Notre Dame, the school she originally committed to before she de-committed and switched to Stanford. Glad to see her go out on a positive note with that basket. As for the game, I have mixed feelings about the outcome, Maryland winning 76-59. I might have been strongly for Maryland if the brackets were different, with potential for Maryland to meet LSU and Angle Reese before the national final, unlikely that either will get there. Had Reese not transferred from Maryland to LSU, I think that Maryland would have had a legitimate shot at being competitive with S Carolina.She averaged 8 mpg for Notre Dame. Doesn't she have another year of eligibility left, at least? She played two for us and one for Notre Dame, so if her MA is not finished yet, couldn't she come back for another year, almost Wilson-like? And that would not involve a COVID year. Unless I am not remembering correctly....
(03-25-2023, 10:07 AM)TheFarm07 Wrote: Tying your observation back to previous commentary about recruiting, I don't think it might be too big of a stretch to potentially connect this limitation with perhaps being a common factor among the elite guards choosing elsewhere (not saying it's the only criteria but it could influence it). If I was a highly ranked guard who has had success creating plays on my own and using my talent to create my own shot and then seeing a system where I would be limited in utilizing these skills, I would be inclined to pick a program that would let me to continue to do so.I wonder about the chicken/egg phenomenon. Do we not run more aggressive guard play because we don't have aggressive guards, or is a non-aggressive style of guard play the reason we have not recruited aggressive guards?
I'm more inclined to think the former. We've had many highly aggressive guards in the Tara era--Lexie and Williams most recently, McPhee and Thompson a little further back, and of course all the distant greats like Wiggins, Pohlen, Azzi, etc.--so it is hard to believe that Tara is averse to this.
I'm Hoping Courtney Ogden next year will bring that attitude and skillset--although she is a 2-3/wing more like Lexie. I'm also hoping that Tara's rule that freshman to sophomore development marks the greatest improvement holds true for Lepolo and Nivar. And while I am most optimistic about Ogden, Agara or Clardy could surprise us and challenge Lepolo or Nivar.
Unless you are an elite pg coming out of high school, the transition to playing is college can be challenging, especially when playing against a top 30 team. Ole Miss pg was a 5 year senior, UCLA pg is a 4 year senior, South Carolina pg is a Senior. I am optimistic that Lepolo and Hivar will be vastly improved next year.
RE: WBB: the NCAA tournament - standfan - 03-25-2023
(03-25-2023, 09:57 AM)Card10Fan Wrote:Simply put, we need to have and utilize more ways to score.(03-25-2023, 08:21 AM)chimera Wrote: What I noticed about the games is that most offenses featured a lot more driving than we do, and not only by super speedy players. Many players took the initiative when they had a lane. Also many teams shot far more mid-range stuff than we typically do. I can't say how many they made or if that was the right thing to do. Does make me wonder if our offense will not be really great unless we are much more aggressive going to the basket and that means almost every player. You don't need to be special to drive well. You need the mentality, the right skills, which can be learned, and a scheme that works.
This is a good observation. The teams that are winning are aggressive and committed to attacking the basket. There is no passive play or predictable slow it down offense. It also feels like most teams still alive have coaches that allow their players to use their skill sets and just play. I think we became way too system focused this year and probably the players felt if they drove and missed and that wasn't the play, they would be subbed out. A little more freedom to just read, react, attack and just play might have been beneficial.
I am really curious to see what adjustments Tara makes next year:
I think Betts starts at center and Brink at PF, with Iriafen and Demetre completing the post rotation. Brink and Iriafen both have good post moves, drive well from anywhere in the key and can hit mid-range shots. Betts is the best lob pass target since Jayne and (I think) will develop a solid shot from 10' or less. That's a lot of offense from the posts. (I also have hope, particularly given her FT% most of the season, that Brink will regain and improve her outside touch and become a 35% 3PT shooter next year. I don't know why she lost her outside shot this year but was glad she stopped taking 3s.) I'd love to see Demetre become the consistently great shooter it seems she could be.
We know what we have with Jump (thanks for coming back), but maybe she will be more aggressive in creating mid-range opportunities next year. I'm optimistic about a sophomore jump in Nivar's game. She is a smooth athlete and has the tools to develop an all round game, including drives and mid-range jumpers. I hope Bosgana improves too. She needs little encouragement to be aggressive, is long and athletic and drives well. But her finishes at the rim need to get better and her 3PT % increased by 5-10%. (But I will be surprised if she develops a mid-range jumper.) I'm a fan of Agnes because she works hard and has improved each year. I hope there is another rung in her ladder.
Lepolo had a great FR season for a PG. It didn't end as well as we would have liked, but there is real promise. She can score at each level although her short stature limits drives to the basket. But if she can score 8-10 /game with 6+ assists and a 3.5 A/TP ratio she'll be a big part of the offense.
On O and rebounding both ends, Jones is a whole lot to replace. But IMO, her presence also limited how some of the other players played. (The last minute or so of the Old Miss game is an example - I'm not blaming Haley.) Next year they have the chance to step up. And Tara needs to figure out (after a year which IMO was not her best) to make it all work. (I think the D will be solid.)
The are a lot of "hopes" above, but that's what fans are for. No one in the country will think we are not a big challenge. If it comes together we can could win the competitive PAC-12 title and go deep into the tournament.
RE: WBB: the NCAA tournament - WBB fan - 03-25-2023
Wow, UCLA vs S Carolina. S Caroline is awesome defensively. Halftime score, SC leads 25-15. UCLA shooting 25%, struggling, but also makes SC struggle as well, shooting only 33%. brobdingnagian difference, SC leading rebounding 24-14, and UCLA has 0 !! o boards. Do I want the traitorous UCLA to win? Not really, but I do want them to give SC a challenge.
RE: WBB: the NCAA tournament - JohnR34231 - 03-25-2023
(03-25-2023, 12:02 PM)WBB fan Wrote: Wow, UCLA vs S Carolina. S Caroline is awesome defensively. Halftime score, SC leads 25-15. UCLA shooting 25%, struggling, but also makes SC struggle as well, shooting only 33%. of immense proportions difference, SC leading rebounding 24-14, and UCLA has 0 !! o boards. Do I want the traitorous UCLA to win? Not really, but I do want them to give SC a challenge.
Well, at least against us, UCLA has shown they are capable of coming back from double digit deficits.
Can they do it against South Carolina? Doubtful, IMO.
P.S. Doesn't look like there is a lot of interest, but SCar has pushed the lead to 20 at the end of Q3.
The question may end up being not if anyone can beat SCar in the tourney, but will anyone even be able to give them a game.
RE: WBB: the NCAA tournament - BostonCard - 03-25-2023
Agree that it is not intrinsic to the system. Jones drove to the basket a lot this year; she was not yanked even when she threw up a crazy circus shot or lost the ball on the way to the hoop. If we had a guard with her athleticism, I think we would have seen her given more opportunities to drive.
On another note, UCLA might be kept under 40. Kiki Rice and Londyn Jones are a combined 2/10 with 7 combined points.
BC
RE: WBB: the NCAA tournament - MV72018 - 03-25-2023
(03-25-2023, 01:00 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Agree that it is not intrinsic to the system. Jones drove to the basket a lot this year; she was not yanked even when she threw up a crazy circus shot or lost the ball on the way to the hoop. If we had a guard with her athleticism, I think we would have seen her given more opportunities to drive.
On another note, UCLA might be kept under 40. Kiki Rice and Londyn Jones are a combined 2/10 with 7 combined points.
BC
South Carolina and UConn are far, far superior to what Stanford showed toward the end of the regular season and post-season. It's not even close. The speed and smoothness of their offenses make ours look stuck in the mud. It's amazing that even without Buechler, UConn may play for the Nati.
I'd bet that:
1. South Carolina's and UConn's daily practices look a lot different than ours do;
2. the head coaches get on and push their starters a lot more than Tara or Kate Paye do;
3. the players are much better conditioned than ours were.
RE: WBB: the NCAA tournament - BostonCard - 03-25-2023
South Carolina’s offense was fine, but it is their defense that makes them a juggernaut. Holding UCLA to 15 points in the half and 43 in the game, limiting UCLA’s shooting to under 30%, and out rebounding the Bruins 42-34 is what made the difference. South Carolina’s scoring (59 points) was not particularly impressive. We actually scored more against UCLA the three times we played them, including the loss. What we couldn’t do in that loss, especially in the fourth quarter, was contain Kiki Rice’s ability to drive and draw fouls.
BC
RE: WBB: the NCAA tournament - JohnR34231 - 03-25-2023
(03-25-2023, 01:04 PM)MV72018 Wrote:(03-25-2023, 01:00 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Agree that it is not intrinsic to the system. Jones drove to the basket a lot this year; she was not yanked even when she threw up a crazy circus shot or lost the ball on the way to the hoop. If we had a guard with her athleticism, I think we would have seen her given more opportunities to drive.
On another note, UCLA might be kept under 40. Kiki Rice and Londyn Jones are a combined 2/10 with 7 combined points.
BC
South Carolina and UConn are far, far superior to what Stanford showed toward the end of the regular season and post-season. It's not even close. The speed and smoothness of their offenses make ours look stuck in the mud. It's amazing that even without Buechler, UConn may play for the Nati.
I'd bet that:
1. South Carolina's and UConn's daily practices look a lot different than ours do;
2. the head coaches get on and push their starters a lot more than Tara or Kate Paye do;
3. the players are much better conditioned than ours were.
At any rate, UCLA gave them a much tougher game on their home court earlier in the season.
It would appear they have definitely improved over the course of the season, while we, unfortunately, have regressed.
RE: WBB: the NCAA tournament - mbdude - 03-25-2023
Ohio st just went on a 17 0 run in 2nd qtr against uconn, up 30 19
RE: WBB: the NCAA tournament - CompSci87 - 03-25-2023
Ohio State up by 10 over UConn after 3 quarters. UConn has 24 turnovers!
RE: WBB: the NCAA tournament - Card10Fan - 03-25-2023
Complete joy in watching UConn lose. Credit to McGuff and their style / team identity as it’s so hard to play against. UConn is gonna have 30 turnovers by the end.
Ohio State and Maryland have both had loads of transfers in recent years and both having success in postseason.
RE: WBB: the NCAA tournament - BosCard - 03-25-2023
Somehow UConn losing in the sweet 16 makes me feel better about our season. Not sure why. Maybe because their fans were so cocky this season even though their team showed signs of trouble just like ours did.
RE: WBB: the NCAA tournament - WBB fan - 03-25-2023
Final, OSU wins 73-61. Stunning, stifling defense was the key. This is a brobdingnagian upset, even though it technically was a 3 seed beating a 2 seed. Personally, I was anticipating a national final of SC vs U Conn. So happy that won't be the case. This loss stops not only Geno's final 4 streak, but also his elite 8 streak. Stanford beat U Conn in the regional semis in 2007 in Kansas City. I think they have won every regional semi game since then. (Will have to go check on that) -- see below, that game was in 2005, and yes, it was UConn's last loss in the sweet sixteen until today
RE: WBB: the NCAA tournament - CompSci87 - 03-25-2023
(03-25-2023, 02:53 PM)Card10Fan Wrote: Complete joy in watching UConn lose. Credit to McGuff and their style / team identity as it’s so hard to play against. UConn is gonna have 30 turnovers by the end.
Ohio State and Maryland have both had loads of transfers in recent years and both having success in postseason.
Ohio State wins. Stanford footnote: A graphic said the last team to beat UConn in the sweet sixteen was Stanford in 2005. ... Yes, Candice Wiggins' freshman year: https://gostanford.com/news/2005/3/27/208089604.aspx
BTW, UConn has at least two transfers who were of major importance this year, Juhasz and Lopez Senschal (not sure of either spelling).
RE: WBB: the NCAA tournament - PVTree - 03-25-2023
Always a good day for me when Yukon loses.
Not sure who I want now to win the championship. Not LSU for sure. Not Iowa, Louisville, Maryland, Miami, nor Tennessee. That leaves Ohio State, VT, and SCar.
As a reward for beating Yukon, I will cheer for Ohio State. VT is ok too. I don't mind that SCar wins it again. They are a terrific team, their coach is good, and I don't get the sense that they have hu-ge egos.