Simple Poll. Should Shaw Stay or Not - Printable Version
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Simple Poll. Should Shaw Stay or Not - cardcrimson - 10-03-2022
Two choices. Should Shaw coach at Stanford next year or not?
Yes, let him coach in 2023
No, fire him before next year
RE: Simple Poll. Should Shaw Stay or Not - PAsportsfan - 10-03-2022
When he eventually leaves he'll be an awesome guidance counselor in retirement.
RE: Simple Poll. Should Shaw Stay or Not - drnoodleman - 10-03-2022
(10-03-2022, 01:30 PM)PAsportsfan Wrote: When he eventually leaves he'll be an awesome guidance counselor in retirement.FIRE HIM
RE: Simple Poll. Should Shaw Stay or Not - lex24 - 10-03-2022
“Should (he) stay or should (he) go now. If (he)stay(s) it will be trouble. If (he) go(es) it will be double. So, c’mon and let me know, should (he) stay or should (he) go.”
Couldn’t resist.
(10-03-2022, 01:30 PM)PAsportsfan Wrote: When he eventually leaves he'll be an awesome guidance counselor in retirement.
A little harsh. But very funny.
RE: Simple Poll. Should Shaw Stay or Not - Brickcity - 10-03-2022
(10-03-2022, 01:05 PM)cardcrimson Wrote: Two choices. Should Shaw coach at Stanford next year or not?
Yes, let him coach in 2023
No, fire him before next year
I would love to hear from the handful of folks who think Shaw should be back next year. Is it possible they are actually fans of other teams in the conference? Then again, I see see that the question was "Yes, let him coach in 2023" - it didn't specify WHERE he should be allowed to coach. I would actually be overjoyed if he were miraculously hired in the offseason by....any program not named Stanford.
RE: Simple Poll. Should Shaw Stay or Not - winflop - 10-03-2022
He should be allowed to coach in 2023...somewhere else
RE: Simple Poll. Should Shaw Stay or Not - newguy - 10-03-2022
(10-03-2022, 03:13 PM)lex24 Wrote: “Should (he) stay or should (he) go now. If (he)stay(s) it will be trouble. If (he) go(es) it will be double. So, c’mon and let me know, should (he) stay or should (he) go.”
Couldn’t resist.
gotta love The Clash
and i say, let him go.
RE: Simple Poll. Should Shaw Stay or Not - BostonCard - 10-03-2022
(10-03-2022, 04:40 PM)Brickcity Wrote:(10-03-2022, 01:05 PM)cardcrimson Wrote: Two choices. Should Shaw coach at Stanford next year or not?
Yes, let him coach in 2023
No, fire him before next year
I would love to hear from the handful of folks who think Shaw should be back next year. Is it possible they are actually fans of other teams in the conference? Then again, I see see that he question was "Yes, let him coach in 2023" - it didn't specify WHERE he should be allowed to coach. I would actually be overjoyed if he were miraculously hired in the offseason by....any program not named Stanford.
Once upon a time, FiveThirtyEight had a segment about ridiculous poll questions and surmised that there was a lower limit below which no poll would fall, because of people clowning around, being deliberately contrarian, not understanding the question, and in a few rare occasions, supporting the very unpopular position.
I didn’t vote in the poll, so it wasn’t me. I suppose the case for Shaw is that we know he is a coach capable of being wildly successful at Stanford, given that he has already done it, and that as the most successful coach ever at Stanford he has earned the right to try to right this ship. Moreover, there is a genuine risk that the person who replaces Shaw does no better, and is a poor representative for the school. A year ago, this was the argument I was making, and I grant that while it’s no longer my position, I recognize that different people have a differing breaking point. Some were there right after Shaw’s hire, some got there in 2014, others in 2016, some in 2019, and for some it didn’t happen until recently, and from the looks of things, there may be some people willing to give Shaw more time. Since I think there is, at best, an even chance that he is not our coach next year, I refuse to let myself get upset over the prospect, or consider people who would prefer it to be the case fans of other teams.
BC
RE: Simple Poll. Should Shaw Stay or Not - cardcrimson - 10-03-2022
(10-03-2022, 07:39 PM)BostonCard Wrote: I didn’t vote in the poll, so it wasn’t me. I suppose the case for Shaw is that we know he is a coach capable of being wildly successful at Stanford, given that he has already done it, and that as the most successful coach ever at Stanford he has earned the right to try to right this ship. Moreover, there is a genuine risk that the person who replaces Shaw does no better, and is a poor representative for the school. A year ago, this was the argument I was making, and I grant that while it’s no longer my position, I recognize that different people have a differing breaking point. Some were there right after Shaw’s hire, some got there in 2014, others in 2016, some in 2019, and for some it didn’t happen until recently, and from the looks of things, there may be some people willing to give Shaw more time. Since I think there is, at best, an even chance that he is not our coach next year, I refuse to let myself get upset over the prospect, or consider people who would prefer it to be the case fans of other teams.
BC
Geez BC, this was meant as a knee jerk poll after three horrendously coached, er, executed games. Pick one, it's anonymous.
RE: Simple Poll. Should Shaw Stay or Not - Phogge - 10-04-2022
I think he should have been fired after the Mommy Kicker game. Taking the ball out of the hands of Andrew Luck.
The move after Harballs should have been Lord Fangio.
RE: Simple Poll. Should Shaw Stay or Not - MV72018 - 10-04-2022
(10-04-2022, 08:08 AM)Phogge Wrote: I think he should have been fired after the Mommy Kicker game. Taking the ball out of the hands of Andrew Luck.
The move after Harballs should have been Lord Fangio.
Agree, Phoggmeister. Taking the ball out of Luck's hands when he was scalding hot was both a harbinger of bad things to come and unforgivable.
RE: Simple Poll. Should Shaw Stay or Not - JohnR34231 - 10-04-2022
(10-04-2022, 09:06 AM)MV72018 Wrote:(10-04-2022, 08:08 AM)Phogge Wrote: I think he should have been fired after the Mommy Kicker game. Taking the ball out of the hands of Andrew Luck.
The move after Harballs should have been Lord Fangio.
Agree, Phoggmeister. Taking the ball out of Luck's hands when he was scalding hot was both a harbinger of bad things to come and unforgivable.
Yep, bad things to come like three Rose Bowls out of the next four years.
RE: Simple Poll. Should Shaw Stay or Not - Mick - 10-04-2022
(10-03-2022, 03:13 PM)lex24 Wrote: “Should (he) stay or should (he) go now. If (he)stay(s) it will be trouble. If (he) go(es) it will be double. So, c’mon and let me know, should (he) stay or should (he) go.”
This indecision's bugging me.
RE: Simple Poll. Should Shaw Stay or Not - ADPinWDC - 10-04-2022
At a minimum... New OffCo and DefCos. Tarmac time.
Bring in Mason from OKST as DefCo for one year with the deal he gets the Head Coach spot; Shaw retires gracefully.
RE: Simple Poll. Should Shaw Stay or Not - msqueri - 10-04-2022
New coordinators would have been attractive to me many times in the last half decade but we're too far gone now. That's lipstick on the pig. David Shaw must go.
It's peculiar how much interest many here still have in Derek Mason. It's not like he was James Franklin at Vanderbilt. A .329 winning percentage as a head coach is atrocious. It would be so depressing if we brought Mason in to be our head coach. I am sure some of those who keep raising him will say "but it's Vanderbilt," which is why I raised Franklin. Mason having zero winning seasons in seven years is awful even by Vanderbilt standards. Franklin ended with back-to-back NINE win seasons. Bobby Johnson had a winning season too. In my lifetime, Mason is the only Vanderbilt coach who got more than five seasons and never got to a winning record. That's not a track record we should be clamoring for. There are plenty of coaches who get tough situations and can at least make their teams mediocre.
RE: Simple Poll. Should Shaw Stay or Not - Leftcoast - 10-04-2022
"One day it's fine and next it's black"
I voted yes toward keeping Shaw but it's a weak yes at the moment.
What most bothers me about Shaw as a head coach is his loyalty to failing lieutenants. There needs to be some accountability for the collapse we've seen over the last four years and I just haven't seen it applied by the guy on top. I would feel much better about retaining Coach Shaw if I had confidence we would see new leadership at the OC/DC positions next year.
On the plus side, I've been a Stanford fan since 1980 and missed the early 70s Rose Bowls. Prior to Coach Shaw I saw one Rose Bowl, under Willingham, which we lost. NOTHING in my Stanford fandom beats the glorious C-Mac Rose Bowl of 2016. Shaw earned some goodwill for bringing that to Stanford fans.
Less emotionally convincing but relevant is the year the Pac-12 implodes IS NOT a great time for a change and unsteady leadership. Having a respected representative able to communicate what's best about Stanford football is important and never more so than RIGHT NOW. Setting aside what's happening on the field (a big ask, I know), Coach Shaw is that guy.
There's no guarantee that we get the next hire right. We've gotten it wrong often. Imagine having Teevens or HARRIS at the helm right now ...
RE: Simple Poll. Should Shaw Stay or Not - ColoradoTree - 10-04-2022
(10-03-2022, 03:13 PM)lex24 Wrote: “Should (he) stay or should (he) go now. If (he)stay(s) it will be trouble. If (he) go(es) it will be double. So, c’mon and let me know, should (he) stay or should (he) go.”
Couldn’t resist.
These lyrics have always bothered me, given how clear the answer is from a mathematical perspective. Only bad options, but one (going) results in twice the amount of trouble, so there is only one rational choice from a harm mitigation standpoint. You already know the answer, Mick Jones and Joe Strummer. You need to suck it up and stay.
RE: Simple Poll. Should Shaw Stay or Not - OutsiderFan - 10-04-2022
Everyone in baseball says "firing the manager isn't going to help." Well, yes, and no. If the team is performing poorly because it lacks talent, a change might not help. But you fire non-performers in part to let everyone else in an organization know lousy performance will not be tolerated.
In Stanford Football's case, the coordinators needed to be fired last year if only to let the players know coaches are held accountable when they perform at an unacceptable level. Muir needed to drive this point home to Shaw and demand it happen. The fact nobody was fired demonstrated three levels of Stanford's Football program with no accountability for performance:
1. The AD
2. The Head Coach
3. The coaching staff
What, exactly are the players suppose to think about that? They sure don't see anyone being held accountable for failure. Why should they be, when failure is accepted? The irony is if the players see their grades slip in their Senior year of High School, they can have their scholarship offer yanked, or or flunk out of school once on campus if they don't perform there. No such consequences for the guys coaching the players apparently, so the players can themselves accept losing or poor performance.
The great thing about College Football is the Head Coach is responsible for everything, from who is recruited, to how they are developed, and deployed. There is no mystery who is responsible for the failures of a College Football team.
RE: Simple Poll. Should Shaw Stay or Not - Brickcity - 10-04-2022
(10-04-2022, 12:09 PM)Leftcoast Wrote: "One day it's fine and next it's black"
I voted yes toward keeping Shaw but it's a weak yes at the moment.
What most bothers me about Shaw as a head coach is his loyalty to failing lieutenants. There needs to be some accountability for the collapse we've seen over the last four years and I just haven't seen it applied by the guy on top. I would feel much better about retaining Coach Shaw if I had confidence we would see new leadership at the OC/DC positions next year.
On the plus side, I've been a Stanford fan since 1980 and missed the early 70s Rose Bowls. Prior to Coach Shaw I saw one Rose Bowl, under Willingham, which we lost. NOTHING in my Stanford fandom beats the glorious C-Mac Rose Bowl of 2016. Shaw earned some goodwill for bringing that to Stanford fans.
Less emotionally convincing but relevant is the year the Pac-12 implodes IS NOT a great time for a change and unsteady leadership. Having a respected representative able to communicate what's best about Stanford football is important and never more so than RIGHT NOW. Setting aside what's happening on the field (a big ask, I know), Coach Shaw is that guy.
There's no guarantee that we get the next hire right. We've gotten it wrong often. Imagine having Teevens or HARRIS at the helm right now ...
I would honestly take ANY coach other than David Shaw. Let's play this out: Muir hires someone who is as inept as Shaw (though, not easy to do) and that guy stinks up the joint for a couple seasons. Guess what: he gets fired and whoever the AD is then (hopefully not Muir) gets another bite at the apple.
Remember this - Teevens and Harris led us to Harbaugh. Our program is now arguably the worst in FBS and there's no reason to believe that next year the team will be any better. Keeping Shaw is only delaying the pain. We need to rip off the band aid and move on.
RE: Simple Poll. Should Shaw Stay or Not - msqueri - 10-04-2022
(10-04-2022, 01:43 PM)Brickcity Wrote:(10-04-2022, 12:09 PM)Leftcoast Wrote: "One day it's fine and next it's black"
I voted yes toward keeping Shaw but it's a weak yes at the moment.
What most bothers me about Shaw as a head coach is his loyalty to failing lieutenants. There needs to be some accountability for the collapse we've seen over the last four years and I just haven't seen it applied by the guy on top. I would feel much better about retaining Coach Shaw if I had confidence we would see new leadership at the OC/DC positions next year.
On the plus side, I've been a Stanford fan since 1980 and missed the early 70s Rose Bowls. Prior to Coach Shaw I saw one Rose Bowl, under Willingham, which we lost. NOTHING in my Stanford fandom beats the glorious C-Mac Rose Bowl of 2016. Shaw earned some goodwill for bringing that to Stanford fans.
Less emotionally convincing but relevant is the year the Pac-12 implodes IS NOT a great time for a change and unsteady leadership. Having a respected representative able to communicate what's best about Stanford football is important and never more so than RIGHT NOW. Setting aside what's happening on the field (a big ask, I know), Coach Shaw is that guy.
There's no guarantee that we get the next hire right. We've gotten it wrong often. Imagine having Teevens or HARRIS at the helm right now ...
I would honestly take ANY coach other than David Shaw. Let's play this out: Muir hires someone who is as inept as Shaw (though, not easy to do) and that guy stinks up the joint for a couple seasons. Guess what: he gets fired and whoever the AD is then (hopefully not Muir) gets another bite at the apple.
Remember this - Teevens and Harris led us to Harbaugh. Our program is now arguably the worst in FBS and there's no reason to believe that next year the team will be any better. Keeping Shaw is only delaying the pain. We need to rip off the band aid and move on.
This is exactly right. I would gladly take Teevens 2.0 or even Harris 2.0 at this point. I'd take Lance Anderson. I'd take Tavita Pritchard. I'd take Lex. I'd take a Dr. Pepper throwing footballs in a barrel contest at halftime to pick the head coach for the next week.
I think a lot of people are in denial about just what it is that David Shaw has accomplished the last 3-4 years. Anything would be better and there is no risk to moving on. That's not because it's easy to get a new hire right, it's because it's really hard to do worse than we've been doing and if some miserable coach managed to do that we could move on with much less drama, expense, or constrained horizons than we face now.
Please make this end. David Shaw must go.