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When is Elijah Brown back? - Row80Critic - 10-13-2024

This team can't improve without better QB play.  That's not the only problem, of course, but watching Oregon and OSU last night really drove home home the difference a QB can make.  Sure, both teams are better overall, but it would have been a lop-sided game if either team had a Stanford's level of QB play.  Stanford needs to test out Brown asap to see if he's really the QB they hope he is...

RE: When is Elijah Brown back? - martyup - 10-13-2024

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RE: When is Elijah Brown back? - gailtate - 10-13-2024

(10-13-2024, 10:48 AM)Row80Critic Wrote:  This team can't improve without better QB play.  That's not the only problem, of course, but watching Oregon and OSU last night really drove home home the difference a QB can make.  Sure, both teams are better overall, but it would have been a lop-sided game if either team had a Stanford's level of QB play.  Stanford needs to test out Brown asap to see if he's really the QB they hope he is...

What I've seen in all phases of the game thus far (coaching included) has been cringe-worthy on an unprecedented scale. Crap football defined. I am not expecting turn-around miracles from a new QB. Neither should anyone else.

RE: When is Elijah Brown back? - MV72018 - 10-13-2024

(10-13-2024, 06:05 PM)gailtate Wrote:  
(10-13-2024, 10:48 AM)Row80Critic Wrote:  This team can't improve without better QB play.  That's not the only problem, of course, but watching Oregon and OSU last night really drove home home the difference a QB can make.  Sure, both teams are better overall, but it would have been a lop-sided game if either team had a Stanford's level of QB play.  Stanford needs to test out Brown asap to see if he's really the QB they hope he is...

What I've seen in all phases of the game thus far (coaching included) has been cringe-worthy on an unprecedented scale. Crap football defined. I am not expecting turn-around miracles from a new QB. Neither should anyone else.

To answer the question that is the title of this thread ("When is Elijah Brown back?"), the correct answer is: NOT SOON ENOUGH! But, at this point, I'm far from sure that even with substantially improved QB passing that our O will be a lot more productive. Our receivers are not very good at separating from those covering them and the O line has proven more and more porous, which means Brown may be under great duress very quickly.

RE: When is Elijah Brown back? - Goose - 10-13-2024

(10-13-2024, 09:24 PM)MV72018 Wrote:  To answer the question that is the title of this thread ("When is Elijah Brown back?"), the correct answer is: NOT SOON ENOUGH! But, at this point, I'm far from sure that even with substantially improved QB passing that our O will be a lot more productive. Our receivers are not very good at separating from those covering them and the O line has proven more and more porous, which means Brown may be under great duress very quickly.
Unfortunately I agree.

RE: When is Elijah Brown back? - JohnR34231 - 10-14-2024

I don't think anyone is under the delusion that better QB performance is going to turn us into a top team.
Now that we are approaching the less challenging portion of our schedule what it MAY do is allow us to win a couple of games and show some improvement and progress toward being at least an OK team.
It may not happen but hope springs eternal.

RE: When is Elijah Brown back? - SkiBum80 - 10-14-2024

(10-14-2024, 03:51 AM)JohnR34231 Wrote:  I don't think anyone is under the delusion that better QB performance is going to turn us into a top team.
Now that we are approaching the less challenging portion of our schedule what it MAY do is allow us to win a couple of games and show some improvement and progress toward being at least an OK team.
It may not happen but hope springs eternal.

Agree. Well said.

RE: When is Elijah Brown back? - jonnyss - 10-14-2024

i, too, would like any news on when elijah brown can return. for example, is he throwing at practice yet?

RE: When is Elijah Brown back? - TonyLima - 10-14-2024

(10-14-2024, 06:54 AM)SkiBum80 Wrote:  
(10-14-2024, 03:51 AM)JohnR34231 Wrote:  I don't think anyone is under the delusion that better QB performance is going to turn us into a top team.
Now that we are approaching the less challenging portion of our schedule what it MAY do is allow us to win a couple of games and show some improvement and progress toward being at least an OK team.
It may not happen but hope springs eternal.

Agree. Well said.

Having said that (and I agree with most of it) is it still possible to redshirt Brown?  If so, is it a good idea?

RE: When is Elijah Brown back? - SamuelMcF - 10-14-2024

(10-14-2024, 03:41 PM)TonyLima Wrote:  
(10-14-2024, 06:54 AM)SkiBum80 Wrote:  
(10-14-2024, 03:51 AM)JohnR34231 Wrote:  I don't think anyone is under the delusion that better QB performance is going to turn us into a top team.
Now that we are approaching the less challenging portion of our schedule what it MAY do is allow us to win a couple of games and show some improvement and progress toward being at least an OK team.
It may not happen but hope springs eternal.

Agree. Well said.

Having said that (and I agree with most of it) is it still possible to redshirt Brown?  If so, is it a good idea?

It's very much possible, but if he's good he won't be here 5 years anyway.

RE: When is Elijah Brown back? - Goose - 10-14-2024

(10-14-2024, 03:41 PM)TonyLima Wrote:  Having said that (and I agree with most of it) is it still possible to redshirt Brown?  If so, is it a good idea?
As I understand it, if he participates in four or fewer games he can still redshirt. So far he has participated in one game. He can therefore redshirt. Given what we know now it seems unlikely he will play next week. There are six games remaining.

I would guess that Brown needs to play in at least three games if he is physically able. More than that is questionable IMO. The only way it makes any sense at all would be if he was such a big factor that he could get us four more wins. I don't think the extra game experience would be worth a year of eligibility, especially if he is PUP for the next two games. At that point we are talking only one game of "extra" experience. Others may feel differently.

RE: When is Elijah Brown back? - jacket3ree - 10-14-2024

If he's better than what's been rolled out there and he isn't injured, he should play as many games as he is capable.  This program is on life support. Hopefully no one signed a DNR.

RE: When is Elijah Brown back? - TonyLima - 10-14-2024

(10-14-2024, 03:52 PM)SamuelMcF Wrote:  
(10-14-2024, 03:41 PM)TonyLima Wrote:  
(10-14-2024, 06:54 AM)SkiBum80 Wrote:  
(10-14-2024, 03:51 AM)JohnR34231 Wrote:  I don't think anyone is under the delusion that better QB performance is going to turn us into a top team.
Now that we are approaching the less challenging portion of our schedule what it MAY do is allow us to win a couple of games and show some improvement and progress toward being at least an OK team.
It may not happen but hope springs eternal.

Agree. Well said.

Having said that (and I agree with most of it) is it still possible to redshirt Brown?  If so, is it a good idea?

It's very much possible, but if he's good he won't be here 5 years anyway.
Good point.

RE: When is Elijah Brown back? - 82lsju - 10-14-2024

(10-14-2024, 03:52 PM)SamuelMcF Wrote:  
(10-14-2024, 03:41 PM)TonyLima Wrote:  
(10-14-2024, 06:54 AM)SkiBum80 Wrote:  
(10-14-2024, 03:51 AM)JohnR34231 Wrote:  I don't think anyone is under the delusion that better QB performance is going to turn us into a top team.
Now that we are approaching the less challenging portion of our schedule what it MAY do is allow us to win a couple of games and show some improvement and progress toward being at least an OK team.
It may not happen but hope springs eternal.

Agree. Well said.

Having said that (and I agree with most of it) is it still possible to redshirt Brown?  If so, is it a good idea?

It's very much possible, but if he's good he won't be here 5 years anyway.

and if he's not someone else will replace him

RE: When is Elijah Brown back? - CardinalSagehen - 10-14-2024

There is always the potential for a minor injury during the three more games that most of us would like to see him play - if he plays earlier, he can still come back later and stay under three games.  

By starting to play him earlier, assuming he's healthy, the coaches still maintain the option of playing him for the rest of the season or not. This can depend on how it's going and whether it makes a meaningful difference in our ability to win games right now.

It's unlikely that Brown will be with Stanford for all 5 years, but if he is, there's always the chance of major injury during the early part of one of those other seasons. He could take his redshirt then.

The stretch of Wake Forest (game 8) and NC State (game 9) is an easy part of the schedule. I like the idea of playing him vs. a very soft Wake Forest defense to get his feet wet. It's one step up from Cal Poly. The only reasons not to do this would be if he's not yet healthy enough or if he's strongly against it.

RE: When is Elijah Brown back? - Goose - 10-15-2024

(10-14-2024, 09:17 PM)CardinalSagehen Wrote:  There is always the potential for a minor injury during the three more games that most of us would like to see him play - if he plays earlier, he can still come back later and stay under three games.  

By starting to play him earlier, assuming he's healthy, the coaches still maintain the option of playing him for the rest of the season or not. This can depend on how it's going and whether it makes a meaningful difference in our ability to win games right now.

It's unlikely that Brown will be with Stanford for all 5 years, but if he is, there's always the chance of major injury during the early part of one of those other seasons. He could take his redshirt then.

The stretch of Wake Forest (game 8) and NC State (game 9) is an easy part of the schedule. I like the idea of playing him vs. a very soft Wake Forest defense to get his feet wet. It's one step up from Cal Poly. The only reasons not to do this would be if he's not yet healthy enough or if he's strongly against it.
Agree with almost all your points. I do however believe that the decision to redshirt him should be based almost totally on whether it "probably" get us to six wins. There is no reason to deny him the possibility of playing his a year five (at Stanford or elsewhere) unless it has a very  tangible benefit to Stanford this year. By his year five Stanford may have a better option :-) or it will be clear (to him at least) that playing elsewhere for a year would be to his overall advantage. The very last thing we want to do (if Brown is our QB1 at that point) is force that decision to be made in year four (because it is his "last chance").

While Andrew Luck did stay, his NFL#1 draft choice future was not in doubt. That isn't typical. Had Luck played the previous year that fifth year would not have been available. It wasn't worth it, to Luck or to Stanford. If there is a probable sixth win in it IMO burning Brown's shirt might make sense. Otherwise, it doesn't (for him or Stanford).

RE: When is Elijah Brown back? - lex24 - 10-15-2024

(10-13-2024, 10:48 AM)Row80Critic Wrote:  This team can't improve without better QB play.  That's not the only problem, of course, but watching Oregon and OSU last night really drove home home the difference a QB can make.  Sure, both teams are better overall, but it would have been a lop-sided game if either team had a Stanford's level of QB play.  Stanford needs to test out Brown asap to see if he's really the QB they hope he is...

Maybe Dillon Gabriel will transfer to Stanford.  I think he’s eligible for an 8th year….
(10-15-2024, 05:40 AM)Goose Wrote:  
(10-14-2024, 09:17 PM)CardinalSagehen Wrote:  There is always the potential for a minor injury during the three more games that most of us would like to see him play - if he plays earlier, he can still come back later and stay under three games.  

By starting to play him earlier, assuming he's healthy, the coaches still maintain the option of playing him for the rest of the season or not. This can depend on how it's going and whether it makes a meaningful difference in our ability to win games right now.

It's unlikely that Brown will be with Stanford for all 5 years, but if he is, there's always the chance of major injury during the early part of one of those other seasons. He could take his redshirt then.

The stretch of Wake Forest (game 8) and NC State (game 9) is an easy part of the schedule. I like the idea of playing him vs. a very soft Wake Forest defense to get his feet wet. It's one step up from Cal Poly. The only reasons not to do this would be if he's not yet healthy enough or if he's strongly against it.
Agree with almost all your points. I do however believe that the decision to redshirt him should be based almost totally on whether it "probably" get us to six wins. There is no reason to deny him the possibility of playing his a year five (at Stanford or elsewhere) unless it has a very  tangible benefit to Stanford this year. By his year five Stanford may have a better option :-) or it will be clear (to him at least) that playing elsewhere for a year would be to his overall advantage. The very last thing we want to do (if Brown is our QB1 at that point) is force that decision to be made in year four (because it is his "last chance").

While Andrew Luck did stay, his NFL#1 draft choice future was not in doubt. That isn't typical. Had Luck played the previous year that fifth year would not have been available. It wasn't worth it, to Luck or to Stanford. If there is a probable sixth win in it IMO burning Brown's shirt might make sense. Otherwise, it doesn't (for him or Stanford).

Redshirting anyone that is capable of playing on this team in this environment makes no sense.  The odds of Brown, or anyone else that is a good player staying 4 much less 5 years are slim and none. 

Consider this - Hunter Dickinson is a AA level basketball player.  He left Michigan for Kansas.  He was getting $140,000 in NIL at Michigan.  Kansas reportedly offered him $4 Million.  He got some social media heat, to which he responded - the people criticizing me would change jobs for a $10,000 raise.  Not exactly a smart thing to say.  But essentially true.  Who among us at 21 (or for that matter now) would NOT change “jobs” for a 3.86 Million dollar raise.  These aren’t college athletes anymore. At least not the top performers.  They are pros, playing on one year deals.  Stanford won’t join issue.  So, if Brown shines, he will soon be gone. The “40 year decision “ can’t compete with a Million bucks.  Or, more.  So, you might as well get what you can out of him.  

And then, of course, there is the reported “fact “ that the average salary for an SEC starting QB is more than Brock Purdy’s $984,000 contract.

The landscape has changed. As far as I’m concerned of the only reason to redshirt anyone is that they’re not physically ready to play or they are buried in the death chart.

If he’s not physically ready, then obviously he can’t be put out there.  If he is, play him. There is no reason not to.  He can’t be worse than what we’ve seen to date.  Although, if he is, at least he will stay awhile…..

EDIT: It appears I fell victim to fake news on Dickinson. I should know better. He claims he was making less than 6 figure at Michigan. Estimates are he’s making about $280,000 a year at Kansas. Doesn’t change my point. But the numbers are less dramatic.

RE: When is Elijah Brown back? - needle - 10-15-2024

If the player's services are in demand, then the decision to redshirt lies with the player. That's the way of the CFB world.

Brown, being a highly recruited QB who has shown at least a modicum of potential, will decide if this is his redshirt year. He'll likely take into account the ability of the offensive line to protect him.

RE: When is Elijah Brown back? - Goose - 10-15-2024

(10-15-2024, 07:14 AM)lex24 Wrote:  The landscape has changed. As far as I’m concerned of the only reason to redshirt anyone is that they’re not physically ready to play or they are buried in the death chart.
Totally agree the landscape has changed. However I don't totally agree with your analysis about redshirts. Every year athletes have the option of entering the transfer portal and going someplace else to make more NIL money. Whether you redshirted or not doesn't really change your calculus there in the NIL  "brave new world".

If Brown is indeed "great" and a high draft choice he will declare for the draft as soon as he is eligible. He is very probably gone after four years in any case. Redshirting isn't relevant in these cases. However, if he is "good" but "less than great" it may change his calculus in deciding the strategy that maximizes his NFL potential. If Brown burns his shirt this year he has three more years to create his NFL resume. This creates a much greater probability of him going elsewhere after year THREE because he has only one more year to "make his bones" and Stanford may not look like the best place to do it. This "corner case" may result in him spending three, not four years at Stanford. Redshirting him this year greatly reduces the probability of that because (worst case) he has a fifth year to play with. The only reason not to take advantage of this "benefit" would be if playing him for more than four games this year gives Stanford a greater benefit. IMO going to a bowl game would do that. Otherwise it is better to redshirt him. One (or even two) game "experiences" this year aren't (absent a bowl game) worth the risk of him leaving after year three when we still want him. If we don't want him it doesn't matter either way :-).

RE: When is Elijah Brown back? - SkiBum80 - 10-15-2024

One point about this discussion I'm not clear about, and hoping someone more knowledgeable can reply.
Having to do with the redshirt decision.
I thought the decision to redshirt a player was officially up to the Coach.
That is, that the Coach signed off/authorized/reported the redshirt decision to the conference or to the NCAA.
So I'm confused by comments to the effect of "Brown deciding to redshirt.." as compared to "Coach deciding to redshirt Brown..."
But what I don't know is if in practice the decision is truly left up to the player and the Coach just stamps the decision as it goes by his desk?