[PVTree]

Did one of our fans just cost us those 3 points at the buzzer by swatting the ball back toward the Cal players during a running clock?

Yes! I was at the game and commented to my friend exactly that. The clock was running. First row fan should have left the ball there for weenie to pick up. Instead, fan rolls ball to baseline, saving weenies at least 2 seconds, which gave them time to shoot a long three, which banked in and deflated our momentum going into the half.

In the frantic comeback we made, we got within 3 at one point (the 3 they hit to end the half). Fitting end to our regular season with turnovers to spare, missed FTs, and poor shooting from three.

[PVTree]

Did one of our fans just cost us those 3 points at the buzzer by swatting the ball back toward the Cal players during a running clock?

Yes! I was at the game and commented to my friend exactly that. The clock was running. First row fan should have left the ball there for weenie to pick up. Instead, fan rolls ball to baseline, saving weenies at least 2 seconds, which gave them time to shoot a long three, which banked in and deflated our momentum going into the half.

In the frantic comeback we made, we got within 3 at one point (the 3 they hit to end the half). Fitting end to our regular season with turnovers to spare, missed FTs, and poor shooting from three.

[82lsju]

from the Daily

https://www.stanforddaily.com/2019/03/08...ior-night/

[82lsju]

from the Daily

https://www.stanforddaily.com/2019/03/08...ior-night/

[76lsjumb]

That Daily article is very well done.  In fact, it is the only thing having to do with that game to which the phrase "well done" might apply...

[76lsjumb]

That Daily article is very well done.  In fact, it is the only thing having to do with that game to which the phrase "well done" might apply...

[oldalum]

Worst home game I've seen in the 28 years I've been attending. Muir couldn't take it, left early in the second half.

[oldalum]

Worst home game I've seen in the 28 years I've been attending. Muir couldn't take it, left early in the second half.

[SamuelMcF]

That Daily article is very well done.  In fact, it is the only thing having to do with that game to which the phrase "well done" might apply...

If you had cooked a steak on my head while I watched the game, it probably would've been "well-done."

[SamuelMcF]

That Daily article is very well done.  In fact, it is the only thing having to do with that game to which the phrase "well done" might apply...

If you had cooked a steak on my head while I watched the game, it probably would've been "well-done."

[winflop]

Muir isn't going to fire Haase, but he should. Last night was another example of poor coaching.

Defense - Cal's 7-footer was raining 3s in the first half. We stayed in zone most of the time. Where was the box and one? Put da Silva in his face and play a 4-man zone.

Offense - some people will say "there's nothing you can do when the shots aren't dropping." I call BS. How about STOP SHOOTING THREES AND WORK THE BALL INSIDE? How about going after their big man and getting him in foul trouble? How about working the ball inside? There was far too little of that.

The turnovers last night from sloppy passing - how does a team after 30 games handle the ball so poorly? Please don't tell me "well we were missing Daejon." Not like his assist-to-turnover ratio or turnovers per game is so different. Not a knock on Davis - he's not a point guard.

More than anything else, I'm just sick and tired of mediocre basketball. 11 years of this crap, and an AD who sat on Dawkins for too long and who I worry will do the same with Haase. I know he won't fire him this year. My only hope is that he makes it clear that with or without Okpala, Stanford must be in the Big Dance in 2020 or he's gone.

[winflop]

Muir isn't going to fire Haase, but he should. Last night was another example of poor coaching.

Defense - Cal's 7-footer was raining 3s in the first half. We stayed in zone most of the time. Where was the box and one? Put da Silva in his face and play a 4-man zone.

Offense - some people will say "there's nothing you can do when the shots aren't dropping." I call BS. How about STOP SHOOTING THREES AND WORK THE BALL INSIDE? How about going after their big man and getting him in foul trouble? How about working the ball inside? There was far too little of that.

The turnovers last night from sloppy passing - how does a team after 30 games handle the ball so poorly? Please don't tell me "well we were missing Daejon." Not like his assist-to-turnover ratio or turnovers per game is so different. Not a knock on Davis - he's not a point guard.

More than anything else, I'm just sick and tired of mediocre basketball. 11 years of this crap, and an AD who sat on Dawkins for too long and who I worry will do the same with Haase. I know he won't fire him this year. My only hope is that he makes it clear that with or without Okpala, Stanford must be in the Big Dance in 2020 or he's gone.

[BobK]

I will say. Damn tough to beat a team without Davis.

[BobK]

I will say. Damn tough to beat a team without Davis.

[Phogge]

The fat lady has sung on the men’s program unless the administration is willing to go all Harbaugh and this bunch won’t.

[Phogge]

The fat lady has sung on the men’s program unless the administration is willing to go all Harbaugh and this bunch won’t.

[d4cohn]

The fat lady has sung on the men’s program unless the administration is willing to go all Harbaugh and this bunch won’t.

Well, tbf, softball was in even worse shape than football or MBB were/are at their nadir, and look how finding the right coach
has completely transformed that squad. 

College sports begin and end with coaching, plain and simple. Most teams have talent. The difference is between the coaches
that can elevate and maximize on that talent, and the coaches that cannot.

[d4cohn]

The fat lady has sung on the men’s program unless the administration is willing to go all Harbaugh and this bunch won’t.

Well, tbf, softball was in even worse shape than football or MBB were/are at their nadir, and look how finding the right coach
has completely transformed that squad. 

College sports begin and end with coaching, plain and simple. Most teams have talent. The difference is between the coaches
that can elevate and maximize on that talent, and the coaches that cannot.

[SamuelMcF]

We thought Haase was gonna be the guy to re-establish the program. Most people loved the hire at the time, including myself.

At least from a rankings perspective he's certainly brought in the talent, but all he'll have to show for it is 1 NIT win in 3 years (assuming we don't make a surprising P12 tourney run and get back there this season) and developing a borderline 1st round draft pick who our fans don't think deserves to be (?).

When do injuries go from valid reason to excuse?

[SamuelMcF]

We thought Haase was gonna be the guy to re-establish the program. Most people loved the hire at the time, including myself.

At least from a rankings perspective he's certainly brought in the talent, but all he'll have to show for it is 1 NIT win in 3 years (assuming we don't make a surprising P12 tourney run and get back there this season) and developing a borderline 1st round draft pick who our fans don't think deserves to be (?).

When do injuries go from valid reason to excuse?

[oldalum]

When he's had sufficient time with his own recruits, which is not yet. But possibly next year, depending on the extent of progress toward good. 

For anyone who is ready to pull the trigger now, you would just shoot yourself in the foot when you're trying to hire the next coach: you're telling prospective hires that if their results aren't good when their first recruiting class are sophomores, they're out the door. It's not enough time. Good luck hiring anyone who isn't desperate.

[oldalum]

When he's had sufficient time with his own recruits, which is not yet. But possibly next year, depending on the extent of progress toward good. 

For anyone who is ready to pull the trigger now, you would just shoot yourself in the foot when you're trying to hire the next coach: you're telling prospective hires that if their results aren't good when their first recruiting class are sophomores, they're out the door. It's not enough time. Good luck hiring anyone who isn't desperate.

[Phogge]

Wlat coached two years. Didn’t dissuade Harbaugh from signing.

---

Do “talented” players throw the ball away so often?

[Phogge]

Wlat coached two years. Didn’t dissuade Harbaugh from signing.

---

Do “talented” players throw the ball away so often?

[oldalum]

Wlat  coached two years. Didn’t dissuade Harbaugh from signing.

True, but that's the exception that proves the rule. Wlat went from 5-6 his first year to 1-11 in his second year (including the infamous third-down kick); that's not mediocre, that's a dumpster fire, and I would think an A.D. would have no problem telling a potential basketball hire that if you go from 19-16 (Haase's record last year) to 3-33 the next year and show you have no understanding of the game you're supposed to be coaching, you're out the door.

[oldalum]

Wlat  coached two years. Didn’t dissuade Harbaugh from signing.

True, but that's the exception that proves the rule. Wlat went from 5-6 his first year to 1-11 in his second year (including the infamous third-down kick); that's not mediocre, that's a dumpster fire, and I would think an A.D. would have no problem telling a potential basketball hire that if you go from 19-16 (Haase's record last year) to 3-33 the next year and show you have no understanding of the game you're supposed to be coaching, you're out the door.

[GoodGrief]

Wlat went from 5-6 his first year to 1-11 in his second year (including the infamous third-down kick)

Hahaha, you clearly think that Wlat had only one 3rd down punt. Never underestimate just how bad of a coach Wlat was. 

Anyway, I thought Bowlsby put it well when he announced Wlat’s firing. He said that a key question he had to ask himself was whether he thought the program was heading in the right direction under Wlat. With that same question in mind regarding Haase, I feel like the answer is yes even if the win-Loss record is not yet what we want. I think Haase is still the right guy for us.

[GoodGrief]

Wlat went from 5-6 his first year to 1-11 in his second year (including the infamous third-down kick)

Hahaha, you clearly think that Wlat had only one 3rd down punt. Never underestimate just how bad of a coach Wlat was. 

Anyway, I thought Bowlsby put it well when he announced Wlat’s firing. He said that a key question he had to ask himself was whether he thought the program was heading in the right direction under Wlat. With that same question in mind regarding Haase, I feel like the answer is yes even if the win-Loss record is not yet what we want. I think Haase is still the right guy for us.

[winflop]

I will say. Damn tough to beat a team without Davis.

Sorry Bob not against the worst team in the worst major conference

---

Wlat went from 5-6 his first year to 1-11 in his second year (including the infamous third-down kick)

Hahaha, you clearly think that Wlat had only one 3rd down punt. Never underestimate just how bad of a coach Wlat was. 

Anyway, I thought Bowlsby put it well when he announced Wlat’s firing. He said that a key question he had to ask himself was whether he thought the program was heading in the right direction under Wlat. With that same question in mind regarding Haase, I feel like the answer is yes even if the win-Loss record is not yet what we want. I think Haase is still the right guy for us.

So then you're comfortable with a flat trajectory of .500 records and borderline NIT bids? Sorry I'm not.

If Okpala leaves, that's where this team ends up once again next year. Or maybe they are and NIT lock.

I like Haase's playing style/system much more than Dawkins, but it's not generating any better results. Given the relative weakness of the competition, you could argue it's going in the wrong direction.

The talent is there, but the glue that makes it into a team that plays above that isn't. That's where I see significant parallels in Haase & Dawkins. You have to get your talent to play together.

[winflop]

I will say. Damn tough to beat a team without Davis.

Sorry Bob not against the worst team in the worst major conference

---

Wlat went from 5-6 his first year to 1-11 in his second year (including the infamous third-down kick)

Hahaha, you clearly think that Wlat had only one 3rd down punt. Never underestimate just how bad of a coach Wlat was. 

Anyway, I thought Bowlsby put it well when he announced Wlat’s firing. He said that a key question he had to ask himself was whether he thought the program was heading in the right direction under Wlat. With that same question in mind regarding Haase, I feel like the answer is yes even if the win-Loss record is not yet what we want. I think Haase is still the right guy for us.

So then you're comfortable with a flat trajectory of .500 records and borderline NIT bids? Sorry I'm not.

If Okpala leaves, that's where this team ends up once again next year. Or maybe they are and NIT lock.

I like Haase's playing style/system much more than Dawkins, but it's not generating any better results. Given the relative weakness of the competition, you could argue it's going in the wrong direction.

The talent is there, but the glue that makes it into a team that plays above that isn't. That's where I see significant parallels in Haase & Dawkins. You have to get your talent to play together.

[oldalum]

Hahaha, you clearly think that Wlat had only one 3rd down punt. Never underestimate just how bad of a coach Wlat was. 

actually, no, I was just identifying the one I thought everyone knew, against UCLA. Also, at Pitt, he kicked multiple times on third down. Should have been disqualifying for a job here.

 I think Haase is still the right guy for us.

I hope he is but I don't think we know yet. I imagine that when an A.D. sits down with a prospective coaching hire, he lays out his expectation for where the program will be by the end of the contract, and expects reasonable yearly progress toward that goal. If in a year there is not the desired progress in wins and losses, then the A.D. has to assess the reasons for the lack of win/loss progress and whether he believes there has been clear progress on the court and in recruiting that he expects will be reflected in the win/loss record soon. This season is now Haase's season of no progress in win/loss record; he needs to improve those numbers next year or the A.D. will need to make a decision. I don't think that necessarily means an NCAA tournament birth, as long as sufficient progress is made.

[oldalum]

Hahaha, you clearly think that Wlat had only one 3rd down punt. Never underestimate just how bad of a coach Wlat was. 

actually, no, I was just identifying the one I thought everyone knew, against UCLA. Also, at Pitt, he kicked multiple times on third down. Should have been disqualifying for a job here.

 I think Haase is still the right guy for us.

I hope he is but I don't think we know yet. I imagine that when an A.D. sits down with a prospective coaching hire, he lays out his expectation for where the program will be by the end of the contract, and expects reasonable yearly progress toward that goal. If in a year there is not the desired progress in wins and losses, then the A.D. has to assess the reasons for the lack of win/loss progress and whether he believes there has been clear progress on the court and in recruiting that he expects will be reflected in the win/loss record soon. This season is now Haase's season of no progress in win/loss record; he needs to improve those numbers next year or the A.D. will need to make a decision. I don't think that necessarily means an NCAA tournament birth, as long as sufficient progress is made.

[SamuelMcF]

I hope he is but I don't think we know yet. I imagine that when an A.D. sits down with a prospective coaching hire, he lays out his expectation for where the program will be by the end of the contract, and expects reasonable yearly progress toward that goal. If in a year there is not the desired progress in wins and losses, then the A.D. has to assess the reasons for the lack of win/loss progress and whether he believes there has been clear progress on the court and in recruiting that he expects will be reflected in the win/loss record soon. This season is now Haase's season of no progress in win/loss record; he needs to improve those numbers next year or the A.D. will need to make a decision. I don't think that necessarily means an NCAA tournament birth, as long as sufficient progress is made.

Dawkins won the NIT in year 4 after 3 mediocre seasons. My biggest fear is that Haase overstays his welcome after similarly making the postseason next year. (At least if next season sucks his seat will be hot.)

[SamuelMcF]

I hope he is but I don't think we know yet. I imagine that when an A.D. sits down with a prospective coaching hire, he lays out his expectation for where the program will be by the end of the contract, and expects reasonable yearly progress toward that goal. If in a year there is not the desired progress in wins and losses, then the A.D. has to assess the reasons for the lack of win/loss progress and whether he believes there has been clear progress on the court and in recruiting that he expects will be reflected in the win/loss record soon. This season is now Haase's season of no progress in win/loss record; he needs to improve those numbers next year or the A.D. will need to make a decision. I don't think that necessarily means an NCAA tournament birth, as long as sufficient progress is made.

Dawkins won the NIT in year 4 after 3 mediocre seasons. My biggest fear is that Haase overstays his welcome after similarly making the postseason next year. (At least if next season sucks his seat will be hot.)

[winflop]

I hope he is but I don't think we know yet. I imagine that when an A.D. sits down with a prospective coaching hire, he lays out his expectation for where the program will be by the end of the contract, and expects reasonable yearly progress toward that goal. If in a year there is not the desired progress in wins and losses, then the A.D. has to assess the reasons for the lack of win/loss progress and whether he believes there has been clear progress on the court and in recruiting that he expects will be reflected in the win/loss record soon. This season is now Haase's season of no progress in win/loss record; he needs to improve those numbers next year or the A.D. will need to make a decision. I don't think that necessarily means an NCAA tournament birth, as long as sufficient progress is made.

If Muir were that objective in his assessment, he would have fired Dawkins much sooner and there's a good chance Wayne Tinkle would be our current HC.

Muir has done nothing to move the needle on MBB. The time for excuses has run out, and I hope he has the guts to tell Haase exactly that although I doubt he does.

[winflop]

I hope he is but I don't think we know yet. I imagine that when an A.D. sits down with a prospective coaching hire, he lays out his expectation for where the program will be by the end of the contract, and expects reasonable yearly progress toward that goal. If in a year there is not the desired progress in wins and losses, then the A.D. has to assess the reasons for the lack of win/loss progress and whether he believes there has been clear progress on the court and in recruiting that he expects will be reflected in the win/loss record soon. This season is now Haase's season of no progress in win/loss record; he needs to improve those numbers next year or the A.D. will need to make a decision. I don't think that necessarily means an NCAA tournament birth, as long as sufficient progress is made.

If Muir were that objective in his assessment, he would have fired Dawkins much sooner and there's a good chance Wayne Tinkle would be our current HC.

Muir has done nothing to move the needle on MBB. The time for excuses has run out, and I hope he has the guts to tell Haase exactly that although I doubt he does.

[oldalum]

If Muir were that objective in his assessment, he would have fired Dawkins much sooner 

Muir has done nothing to move the needle on MBB. The time for excuses has run out, and I hope he has the guts to tell Haase exactly that although I doubt he does.

Yes Muir waited way too long on Dawkins. But maybe he's learned on the job?

[oldalum]

If Muir were that objective in his assessment, he would have fired Dawkins much sooner 

Muir has done nothing to move the needle on MBB. The time for excuses has run out, and I hope he has the guts to tell Haase exactly that although I doubt he does.

Yes Muir waited way too long on Dawkins. But maybe he's learned on the job?

[winflop]

But I'm calling my shot: next year we will have a winning record in conference play and will be in the running for an NCAA tournament bid.

Still making that call if KZ leaves early?

[winflop]

But I'm calling my shot: next year we will have a winning record in conference play and will be in the running for an NCAA tournament bid.

Still making that call if KZ leaves early?