[terry]

Here's the 2020 baseball Hall of Fame ballot. Asterisks indicate first year on the ballot. For whom would you vote?

Bobby Abreu*
Josh Beckett*
Heath Bell*
Barry Bonds
Eric Chávez*
Roger Clemens
Adam Dunn*
Chone Figgins*
Rafael Furcal*
Jason Giambi*
Todd Helton
Raúl Ibañez*
Derek Jeter*
Andruw Jones
Jeff Kent
Paul Konerko*
Cliff Lee*
Carlos Peña*
Brad Penny*
Andy Pettitte
J.J. Putz*
Manny Ramírez
Brian Roberts*
Scott Rolen
Curt Schilling
Gary Sheffield
Alfonso Soriano*
Sammy Sosa
José Valverde*
Omar Vizquel
Billy Wagner
Larry Walker

Of the players on this list who were on the ballot last year, the voting results were:

Curt Schilling     60.9%
Roger Clemens   59.5%
Barry Bonds       59.1%
Larry Walker      54.6%
Omar Vizquel     42.8%
Manny Ramirez   22.8%
Jeff Kent            18.2%
Scott Rolen        17.2%
Billy Wagner       16.7%
Todd Helton        16.5%
Gary Sheffield     13.6%
Andy Pettitte         9.9%
Sammy Sosa         8.5%
Andruw Jones        7.5%

Larry Walker is in his final year on the ballot. Schilling, Clemens, Bonds, and Sosa will be on the ballot for two more years after this year.

[terry]

Here's the 2020 baseball Hall of Fame ballot. Asterisks indicate first year on the ballot. For whom would you vote?

Bobby Abreu*
Josh Beckett*
Heath Bell*
Barry Bonds
Eric Chávez*
Roger Clemens
Adam Dunn*
Chone Figgins*
Rafael Furcal*
Jason Giambi*
Todd Helton
Raúl Ibañez*
Derek Jeter*
Andruw Jones
Jeff Kent
Paul Konerko*
Cliff Lee*
Carlos Peña*
Brad Penny*
Andy Pettitte
J.J. Putz*
Manny Ramírez
Brian Roberts*
Scott Rolen
Curt Schilling
Gary Sheffield
Alfonso Soriano*
Sammy Sosa
José Valverde*
Omar Vizquel
Billy Wagner
Larry Walker

Of the players on this list who were on the ballot last year, the voting results were:

Curt Schilling     60.9%
Roger Clemens   59.5%
Barry Bonds       59.1%
Larry Walker      54.6%
Omar Vizquel     42.8%
Manny Ramirez   22.8%
Jeff Kent            18.2%
Scott Rolen        17.2%
Billy Wagner       16.7%
Todd Helton        16.5%
Gary Sheffield     13.6%
Andy Pettitte         9.9%
Sammy Sosa         8.5%
Andruw Jones        7.5%

Larry Walker is in his final year on the ballot. Schilling, Clemens, Bonds, and Sosa will be on the ballot for two more years after this year.

[BobK]

Clemens
Bonds
Walker
Jeter

[BobK]

Clemens
Bonds
Walker
Jeter

[triangle2]

Clemens
Bonds
Jeter
Vizquel

[triangle2]

Clemens
Bonds
Jeter
Vizquel

[PVTree]

Bonds
Clemens
Jeter
Sosa

[PVTree]

Bonds
Clemens
Jeter
Sosa

[qwerty49]

Daryl Spencer
Jackie Brandt
Joey Amalfitano
Billy O'Dell

[qwerty49]

Daryl Spencer
Jackie Brandt
Joey Amalfitano
Billy O'Dell

[lex24]

Bonds 
Clemens
Jeter
Kent
Sosa
Ramírez.

[lex24]

Bonds 
Clemens
Jeter
Kent
Sosa
Ramírez.

[BostonCard]

Why do people feel that steroid abusers deserve to be in the hall of fame?

BC

[BostonCard]

Why do people feel that steroid abusers deserve to be in the hall of fame?

BC

[CornFed]

Why do people feel that steroid abusers deserve to be in the hall of fame?

BC

To my mind Bonds had more than sufficient credentials before it is estimated that he began PED's.  He was the best offensive player and best pure hitter I ever saw in person.

[CornFed]

Why do people feel that steroid abusers deserve to be in the hall of fame?

BC

To my mind Bonds had more than sufficient credentials before it is estimated that he began PED's.  He was the best offensive player and best pure hitter I ever saw in person.

[Mick]

Jeter, Bonds, Sosa, Clemens

Also, Jeff Kent.  Most HRs of any 2nd baseman ever (377), playing in Oracle/AT&T.  five time allstar, finished in top 10 in MVP two additional seasons.  4 silver sluggers.

And finally, a shout out to Bill Freehan.  Eleven time All Star.  How are you an all-star that many times, yet not in the Hall of Fame?  Of course, he was a hitter in a time of non-hitters.  Also, Steve Garvey, 10 time all-star and no HoF shot.  But then, J. T. Snow had more gold gloves and a higher career OPS than Garvey, and he was never an all-star, not once.

The others were gamblers (Rose, 17) or 'roid-heads (Bonds, Jeter, 14 each; McGuire and Ramirez, 12 each; Clemens, 11) or not eligible yet (Rodriguez, Cabrera, Pujols, Ortiz with at least 10 each)

[Mick]

Jeter, Bonds, Sosa, Clemens

Also, Jeff Kent.  Most HRs of any 2nd baseman ever (377), playing in Oracle/AT&T.  five time allstar, finished in top 10 in MVP two additional seasons.  4 silver sluggers.

And finally, a shout out to Bill Freehan.  Eleven time All Star.  How are you an all-star that many times, yet not in the Hall of Fame?  Of course, he was a hitter in a time of non-hitters.  Also, Steve Garvey, 10 time all-star and no HoF shot.  But then, J. T. Snow had more gold gloves and a higher career OPS than Garvey, and he was never an all-star, not once.

The others were gamblers (Rose, 17) or 'roid-heads (Bonds, Jeter, 14 each; McGuire and Ramirez, 12 each; Clemens, 11) or not eligible yet (Rodriguez, Cabrera, Pujols, Ortiz with at least 10 each)

[terry]

Also, Steve Garvey, 10 time all-star and no HoF shot. 

Garvey is on the veterans' committee ballot this year (technically it's the Modern Baseball Era Committee ballot). Here's the full ballot, along with each player's best percentage in a regular HOF election -

Dwight Evans         10.4%
Steve Garvey         42.6%
Tommy John          31.7%
Don Mattingly        28.2%
Marvin Miller
Thurman Munson  15.5%
Dale Murphy          23.2%
Dave Parker           24.5%
Ted Simmons           3.7%
Lou Whitaker           2.9%

[terry]

Also, Steve Garvey, 10 time all-star and no HoF shot. 

Garvey is on the veterans' committee ballot this year (technically it's the Modern Baseball Era Committee ballot). Here's the full ballot, along with each player's best percentage in a regular HOF election -

Dwight Evans         10.4%
Steve Garvey         42.6%
Tommy John          31.7%
Don Mattingly        28.2%
Marvin Miller
Thurman Munson  15.5%
Dale Murphy          23.2%
Dave Parker           24.5%
Ted Simmons           3.7%
Lou Whitaker           2.9%

[BobK]

Murphy and Parker

Trivia Murphy played CF most of his career. What was his first position ? And why the switch ?

[BobK]

Murphy and Parker

Trivia Murphy played CF most of his career. What was his first position ? And why the switch ?

[Renaissance Man]

Jeter, and most of the players on the veterans' ballot.

[Renaissance Man]

Jeter, and most of the players on the veterans' ballot.

[Spiny_Norman]

Also, Steve Garvey, 10 time all-star and no HoF shot. 

Garvey is on the veterans' committee ballot this year (technically it's the Modern Baseball Era Committee ballot) --

Dwight Evans
Steve Garvey
Tommy John
Don Mattingly
Marvin Miller
Thurman Munson
Dale Murphy
Dave Parker
Ted Simmons
Lou Whitaker

The Veterans Committee can correct an historical injustice when they tap Marvin Miller.

It's also a burr under my saddle that Joe Jackson remains on the Ineligible List. I don't understand why. His case was brought up to Rob Manfred as recently as 2015 who refused to reinstate him.

Among the current candidates, I would probably vote for Jeter and that's it.

---

Murphy and Parker

Trivia Murphy played CF most of his career.  What was his first position ? And why the switch ?

He was a catcher, I believe. Not sure why the switch. 

Murphy is also in a small club of players who have won back to back MVPs who are not in the HoF. Among retired players, it's just him and Bonds.

[Spiny_Norman]

Also, Steve Garvey, 10 time all-star and no HoF shot. 

Garvey is on the veterans' committee ballot this year (technically it's the Modern Baseball Era Committee ballot) --

Dwight Evans
Steve Garvey
Tommy John
Don Mattingly
Marvin Miller
Thurman Munson
Dale Murphy
Dave Parker
Ted Simmons
Lou Whitaker

The Veterans Committee can correct an historical injustice when they tap Marvin Miller.

It's also a burr under my saddle that Joe Jackson remains on the Ineligible List. I don't understand why. His case was brought up to Rob Manfred as recently as 2015 who refused to reinstate him.

Among the current candidates, I would probably vote for Jeter and that's it.

---

Murphy and Parker

Trivia Murphy played CF most of his career.  What was his first position ? And why the switch ?

He was a catcher, I believe. Not sure why the switch. 

Murphy is also in a small club of players who have won back to back MVPs who are not in the HoF. Among retired players, it's just him and Bonds.

[BobK]

Murphy mentally couldn’t throw the ball back to the pitcher. Would pump not throw or miss the pitcher. Like Mike Ivie

[BobK]

Murphy mentally couldn’t throw the ball back to the pitcher. Would pump not throw or miss the pitcher. Like Mike Ivie

[BostonCard]

https://entertainment.howstuffworks.com/...-fame2.htm

Voting baseball writers are instructed to judge each candidate on ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contribution to the team or teams on which he played -- as well as to baseball in general.

As long as candidates are supposed to be judged on criteria that include integrity, character, and sportsmanship, I don't see how you can include someone who is believed to have taken steroids, no matter how good they had been before they started taking steroids. While the statistical "credentials" carry a lot of weight, because this is, after all, baseball, I don't think that those should be the be all and end all of admission to the hall of fame.

I don't have any illusions that everyone in the Hall of Fame is an angel, or that they have to have an impeccable record to gain entrance, but I think the steroid era was a brobdingnagian stain on major league baseball (as doping was to cycling), and in my personal opinion, taking steroids is an important enough breach of integrity and character as to overcome any credentials.  We are not talking about depriving them of their livelihood.  The Hall of Fame museum is in some ways, a reflection of the best of baseball across the eras.  Admitting steroid abusers is messaging that "our very best" can scoff at the rules of baseball and we don't care.

BC

[BostonCard]

https://entertainment.howstuffworks.com/...-fame2.htm

Voting baseball writers are instructed to judge each candidate on ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contribution to the team or teams on which he played -- as well as to baseball in general.

As long as candidates are supposed to be judged on criteria that include integrity, character, and sportsmanship, I don't see how you can include someone who is believed to have taken steroids, no matter how good they had been before they started taking steroids. While the statistical "credentials" carry a lot of weight, because this is, after all, baseball, I don't think that those should be the be all and end all of admission to the hall of fame.

I don't have any illusions that everyone in the Hall of Fame is an angel, or that they have to have an impeccable record to gain entrance, but I think the steroid era was a brobdingnagian stain on major league baseball (as doping was to cycling), and in my personal opinion, taking steroids is an important enough breach of integrity and character as to overcome any credentials.  We are not talking about depriving them of their livelihood.  The Hall of Fame museum is in some ways, a reflection of the best of baseball across the eras.  Admitting steroid abusers is messaging that "our very best" can scoff at the rules of baseball and we don't care.

BC

[BrevinsBest]

What do you do about Biggio and Bagwell, who I believe are both in the HOF? Someone they've escaped much of the steroid criticism, but it's pretty clear to me that they were both using. 

My opinion is Bonds and Clemens should be in. I'm not a fan of their clear steroid use, but everyone was doing it, and as stated above, I have no doubt that steroid users are already in the hall.

Larry Walker, not so sure. He was a great hitter, but he was a .278 hitter on the road and his OPS was almost 200 points lower when not at home. If I recall correctly, his defense was average, although he did have a cannon.

[BrevinsBest]

What do you do about Biggio and Bagwell, who I believe are both in the HOF? Someone they've escaped much of the steroid criticism, but it's pretty clear to me that they were both using. 

My opinion is Bonds and Clemens should be in. I'm not a fan of their clear steroid use, but everyone was doing it, and as stated above, I have no doubt that steroid users are already in the hall.

Larry Walker, not so sure. He was a great hitter, but he was a .278 hitter on the road and his OPS was almost 200 points lower when not at home. If I recall correctly, his defense was average, although he did have a cannon.

[teejers1]

I don't have any illusions that everyone in the Hall of Fame is an angel, or that they have to have an impeccable record to gain entrance, but I think the steroid era was a of immense proportions stain on major league baseball (as doping was to cycling), and in my personal opinion, taking steroids is an important enough breach of integrity and character as to overcome any credentials.  We are not talking about depriving them of their livelihood. 

I agree.  Which is why it is a complete travesty that Bud Seelig - who presided over the Steroid Era and in many ways condoned it - is in the HoF.  Hard to take that place seriously now.

One final thought (which I've raised before):  give every candidate to the Hall, as a prerquisite, a lie detector test.

Did you use steroids or any PED in ___
[Repeat for every year of career].

Use that info when voting on Hall admission.

People may scream violation of privacy, etc., etc.  But entry into the Hall isn't a constitutional right (or any kind of right).  No one will force you to take a lie detector test, but if you choose not to, you're not eligible.

People may say:  not foolproof.  True (or at least probably true).  But better than nothing.

BTW, I think Bonds, if truthful, would say he used for many years of his career - in particular, after he was pissed that juicers Sosa and McGwire were getting all the publicity in that one HR Chase season.  But I firmly believe that his accomplishments in his non-juicing years comfortably warrant enshrinement.  

Can't say that about many/most others from the Steroid Era.

[teejers1]

I don't have any illusions that everyone in the Hall of Fame is an angel, or that they have to have an impeccable record to gain entrance, but I think the steroid era was a of immense proportions stain on major league baseball (as doping was to cycling), and in my personal opinion, taking steroids is an important enough breach of integrity and character as to overcome any credentials.  We are not talking about depriving them of their livelihood. 

I agree.  Which is why it is a complete travesty that Bud Seelig - who presided over the Steroid Era and in many ways condoned it - is in the HoF.  Hard to take that place seriously now.

One final thought (which I've raised before):  give every candidate to the Hall, as a prerquisite, a lie detector test.

Did you use steroids or any PED in ___
[Repeat for every year of career].

Use that info when voting on Hall admission.

People may scream violation of privacy, etc., etc.  But entry into the Hall isn't a constitutional right (or any kind of right).  No one will force you to take a lie detector test, but if you choose not to, you're not eligible.

People may say:  not foolproof.  True (or at least probably true).  But better than nothing.

BTW, I think Bonds, if truthful, would say he used for many years of his career - in particular, after he was pissed that juicers Sosa and McGwire were getting all the publicity in that one HR Chase season.  But I firmly believe that his accomplishments in his non-juicing years comfortably warrant enshrinement.  

Can't say that about many/most others from the Steroid Era.

[BostonCard]

BTW, I think Bonds, if truthful, would say he used for many years of his career - in particular, after he was pissed that juicers Sosa and McGwire were getting all the publicity in that one HR Chase season.  But I firmly believe that his accomplishments in his non-juicing years comfortably warrant enshrinement.  

Can't say that about many/most others from the Steroid Era.

I think if anything that makes it more tragic.  Here's a guy who was good enough to have a Hall of Fame worthy career without using PEDs.  He could have been a shining example of how it's possible to be great with integrity, a real role model for kids. He didn't have to use PEDs, but his ego got in the way.  40/40, which on its own was a phenomenal accomplishment in its own right, wasn't enough for him because other guys used PEDs and got 60 HRs.  And so he used, thus casting a shadow over his entire career.

You either have integrity or you don't.

BC

[BostonCard]

BTW, I think Bonds, if truthful, would say he used for many years of his career - in particular, after he was pissed that juicers Sosa and McGwire were getting all the publicity in that one HR Chase season.  But I firmly believe that his accomplishments in his non-juicing years comfortably warrant enshrinement.  

Can't say that about many/most others from the Steroid Era.

I think if anything that makes it more tragic.  Here's a guy who was good enough to have a Hall of Fame worthy career without using PEDs.  He could have been a shining example of how it's possible to be great with integrity, a real role model for kids. He didn't have to use PEDs, but his ego got in the way.  40/40, which on its own was a phenomenal accomplishment in its own right, wasn't enough for him because other guys used PEDs and got 60 HRs.  And so he used, thus casting a shadow over his entire career.

You either have integrity or you don't.

BC

[DC 86]

Murphy is also in a small club of players who have won back to back MVPs who are not in the HoF. Among retired players, it's just him and Bonds.

And Roger Maris (1960, 1961)

[DC 86]

Murphy is also in a small club of players who have won back to back MVPs who are not in the HoF. Among retired players, it's just him and Bonds.

And Roger Maris (1960, 1961)

[BobK]

So using whatever drugs after long train rides would be ok since they were before
Steroids ?

They didn’t test until late in the steroid era as in didn’t care.
Bonds and Clemens belong in the Hall

[BobK]

So using whatever drugs after long train rides would be ok since they were before
Steroids ?

They didn’t test until late in the steroid era as in didn’t care.
Bonds and Clemens belong in the Hall