[PVTree]

Who on this roster do we actually see being an integral part in helping us get our program back on track? Honestly, I only see Agara and Clardy. The freshman coming in next year every one of them should be playing 30 minutes per game.

Integral? Only Agara, perhaps Shay and Umeh. Bench contributors: Clardy and Ogden.

[PVTree]

Who on this roster do we actually see being an integral part in helping us get our program back on track? Honestly, I only see Agara and Clardy. The freshman coming in next year every one of them should be playing 30 minutes per game.

Integral? Only Agara, perhaps Shay and Umeh. Bench contributors: Clardy and Ogden.

[crackpot]

Announcers say worst loss in Stanford WBB history, 47-96.

I remember attending a horrific loss to UConn at Maples in which we scored 33 points, I believe.  Maybe it was not this bad.  But it felt terrible.  However, everyone knew that the loss then was not the character of the team and that we would be better next game.  Does anyone feel that way tonight?

35-61 at Maples in 2012. So I guess we played some defense.

[crackpot]

Announcers say worst loss in Stanford WBB history, 47-96.

I remember attending a horrific loss to UConn at Maples in which we scored 33 points, I believe.  Maybe it was not this bad.  But it felt terrible.  However, everyone knew that the loss then was not the character of the team and that we would be better next game.  Does anyone feel that way tonight?

35-61 at Maples in 2012. So I guess we played some defense.

[BostonCard]

Who on this roster do we actually see being an integral part in helping us get our program back on track? Honestly, I only see Agara and Clardy. The freshman coming in next year every one of them should be playing 30 minutes per game.

how much responsibility/blame  falls on Tara
 for state of roster

Kate Paye had been the recruiting coordinator for the past at least 5 years prior to being announced as head coach so…

But it isn’t just the recruiting, but also the failure to retain highly capable players that signed.  The team with Betts and Iriafen, who Paye presumably recruited, probably doesn’t lose by 50 points.

BC

[BostonCard]

Who on this roster do we actually see being an integral part in helping us get our program back on track? Honestly, I only see Agara and Clardy. The freshman coming in next year every one of them should be playing 30 minutes per game.

how much responsibility/blame  falls on Tara
 for state of roster

Kate Paye had been the recruiting coordinator for the past at least 5 years prior to being announced as head coach so…

But it isn’t just the recruiting, but also the failure to retain highly capable players that signed.  The team with Betts and Iriafen, who Paye presumably recruited, probably doesn’t lose by 50 points.

BC

[TheFarm07]

Who on this roster do we actually see being an integral part in helping us get our program back on track? Honestly, I only see Agara and Clardy. The freshman coming in next year every one of them should be playing 30 minutes per game.

how much responsibility/blame  falls on Tara
 for state of roster

Kate Paye had been the recruiting coordinator for the past at least 5 years prior to being announced as head coach so…

But it isn’t just the recruiting, but also the failure to retain highly capable players that signed.  The team with Betts and Iriafen, who Paye presumably recruited, probably doesn’t lose by 50 points.

BC

We've gone over Betts in another thread. Maybe Kiki would have been able to resist the pressure to go elsewhere if staying meant playing with JuJu and Miles here for instance?

I've emphasized the failure to recruit elite guards before and that might have made the difference against Ol' Miss in '23 and NC State last year, keeping up with their agile, shifty guards.

[TheFarm07]

Who on this roster do we actually see being an integral part in helping us get our program back on track? Honestly, I only see Agara and Clardy. The freshman coming in next year every one of them should be playing 30 minutes per game.

how much responsibility/blame  falls on Tara
 for state of roster

Kate Paye had been the recruiting coordinator for the past at least 5 years prior to being announced as head coach so…

But it isn’t just the recruiting, but also the failure to retain highly capable players that signed.  The team with Betts and Iriafen, who Paye presumably recruited, probably doesn’t lose by 50 points.

BC

We've gone over Betts in another thread. Maybe Kiki would have been able to resist the pressure to go elsewhere if staying meant playing with JuJu and Miles here for instance?

I've emphasized the failure to recruit elite guards before and that might have made the difference against Ol' Miss in '23 and NC State last year, keeping up with their agile, shifty guards.

[paloalto]

Why did ESPN select this game to air?  What percentage of their viewership left at halftime?  There was no way to know how lopsided it would be but odds were it would not be a competitive sports event.

[paloalto]

Why did ESPN select this game to air?  What percentage of their viewership left at halftime?  There was no way to know how lopsided it would be but odds were it would not be a competitive sports event.

[JohnR34231]

I expected a beatdown.
This bad? Probably not.
Of course if I had known we were going to lose Agara almost immediately.

[JohnR34231]

I expected a beatdown.
This bad? Probably not.
Of course if I had known we were going to lose Agara almost immediately.

[BillBradley]

Spread was 14.5. We massively underperformed. I don't really think having Agara would have helped much. Our guards were so bad...

re: Coach Paye...what a rough spot to be in. Feel badly - I've always thought highly of her.  While understudying Tara for 17 years was invaluable, the fact is she has zero head coaching experience. Until you are in the chair, making all the decisions, having to figure out how to motivate, who to play, what to run, how to sleep...there's no way to be completely prepared. Nightmare.

[BillBradley]

Spread was 14.5. We massively underperformed. I don't really think having Agara would have helped much. Our guards were so bad...

re: Coach Paye...what a rough spot to be in. Feel badly - I've always thought highly of her.  While understudying Tara for 17 years was invaluable, the fact is she has zero head coaching experience. Until you are in the chair, making all the decisions, having to figure out how to motivate, who to play, what to run, how to sleep...there's no way to be completely prepared. Nightmare.

[jacket3ree]

Always better to be the coach after the coach after the legend.

She's been part of the staff for 17 years, so it is not like she came into an untenable situation to rescue anything. She's part of the situation. Talk about a cliff dive. Hope she can recover before Muir runs out of patience in 10 years.

Why did they televise this?  There are uncompetitive games on all the time. When this was set up, I doubt anyone thought Stanford would be this uncompetitive.

Anyway, regardless of how good Notre Dame is, and they are good, a 49-point beatdown has to be rock bottom, right? So.....yay.

[jacket3ree]

Always better to be the coach after the coach after the legend.

She's been part of the staff for 17 years, so it is not like she came into an untenable situation to rescue anything. She's part of the situation. Talk about a cliff dive. Hope she can recover before Muir runs out of patience in 10 years.

Why did they televise this?  There are uncompetitive games on all the time. When this was set up, I doubt anyone thought Stanford would be this uncompetitive.

Anyway, regardless of how good Notre Dame is, and they are good, a 49-point beatdown has to be rock bottom, right? So.....yay.

[81alum]

I'm finding it really, really hard to exert any effort at all in analyzing our team.  Would be easier to check out and check back in next season.  However, a few points:

Demetre and Bosgana and Harriel are our senior class.  The team will not do well getting so little production from its most experienced players.

Actually the most experience player is Lepolo.  She has been out nearly all year, supposedly because of injury.  I know there was an actual injury, but whether it necessitated her being out the whole year is another question.

Papadaki and Green are our other non-transfer juniors.  Not contributors.

That leaves us with freshmen, sophomores, and transfers to create a team.  There is quite a lot of talent in this category. Agara, Clardy, Umeh, Heal, Stevenson all have streaks of talent.  But not a one of them is a "franchise player."  None of them rise to the level of a Starbird, Wiggins, Appel, N or C Ogumike, etc.  Can we win without such a star?  Of course.  But almost every other team we play does have such a star, or more than one. 

We are not used to consistently playing against teams with more talent than we have.  Now we know how it feels.  And it is not good.

[81alum]

I'm finding it really, really hard to exert any effort at all in analyzing our team.  Would be easier to check out and check back in next season.  However, a few points:

Demetre and Bosgana and Harriel are our senior class.  The team will not do well getting so little production from its most experienced players.

Actually the most experience player is Lepolo.  She has been out nearly all year, supposedly because of injury.  I know there was an actual injury, but whether it necessitated her being out the whole year is another question.

Papadaki and Green are our other non-transfer juniors.  Not contributors.

That leaves us with freshmen, sophomores, and transfers to create a team.  There is quite a lot of talent in this category. Agara, Clardy, Umeh, Heal, Stevenson all have streaks of talent.  But not a one of them is a "franchise player."  None of them rise to the level of a Starbird, Wiggins, Appel, N or C Ogumike, etc.  Can we win without such a star?  Of course.  But almost every other team we play does have such a star, or more than one. 

We are not used to consistently playing against teams with more talent than we have.  Now we know how it feels.  And it is not good.

[Nobadeer]

ND played mostly just an 8 player rotation, in a 50-point blowout, at home. So I guess the remaining ND players are all donors' daughters?

[Nobadeer]

ND played mostly just an 8 player rotation, in a 50-point blowout, at home. So I guess the remaining ND players are all donors' daughters?

[BostonCard]

ND played mostly just an 8 player rotation, in a 50-point blowout, at home. So I guess the remaining ND players are all donors' daughters?

Makes one wonder what would have happened had Miles transferred after her freshman year, Hidalgo transferred after last year, Citron been out for the year with injury and Prosper been injured five minutes into the game.

BC

[BostonCard]

ND played mostly just an 8 player rotation, in a 50-point blowout, at home. So I guess the remaining ND players are all donors' daughters?

Makes one wonder what would have happened had Miles transferred after her freshman year, Hidalgo transferred after last year, Citron been out for the year with injury and Prosper been injured five minutes into the game.

BC

[JTM]

Tonight’s game was painful to watch.  We have a long road ahead.
Taking over for a legend is not easy.  Ask Holly Warlick and Kellie Harper.
We lost a lot of talent from last year.  We lost our top 3 scorers and a Hall of Fame coach.  That’s a big hit.  I expect recovery will take 2-3 years at best.  Look how long it taking Tennessee.
And the Transfer Portal and NIL will make it difficult to retain talent.

[JTM]

Tonight’s game was painful to watch.  We have a long road ahead.
Taking over for a legend is not easy.  Ask Holly Warlick and Kellie Harper.
We lost a lot of talent from last year.  We lost our top 3 scorers and a Hall of Fame coach.  That’s a big hit.  I expect recovery will take 2-3 years at best.  Look how long it taking Tennessee.
And the Transfer Portal and NIL will make it difficult to retain talent.

[76lsjumb]

Tonight’s game was painful to watch.  We have a long road ahead.
Taking over for a legend is not easy.  Ask Holly Warlick and Kellie Harper.
We lost a lot of talent from last year.  We lost our top 3 scorers and a Hall of Fame coach.  That’s a big hit.  I expect recovery will take 2-3 years at best.  Look how long it taking Tennessee.
And the Transfer Portal and NIL will make it difficult to retain talent.

Pat Summitt left after the 2011-12 season. Here’s what happened in the 2012-13 season:
Despite losing all five starters from the previous season, they went 27-8, finished first in the SEC, and went to the Elite Eight under Rookie Coach-of the Year Holly Warlick.

I posted several weeks ago that I had always been concerned that having Kate Paye replace Tara was going to have the same result as occurred at Tennessee. After today’s game I would be absolutely ecstatic if we had half as good a result…

Muir hired 2 new basketball coaches about a year ago. Based on evidence to date, it looks like he got one right, at least.

[76lsjumb]

Tonight’s game was painful to watch.  We have a long road ahead.
Taking over for a legend is not easy.  Ask Holly Warlick and Kellie Harper.
We lost a lot of talent from last year.  We lost our top 3 scorers and a Hall of Fame coach.  That’s a big hit.  I expect recovery will take 2-3 years at best.  Look how long it taking Tennessee.
And the Transfer Portal and NIL will make it difficult to retain talent.

Pat Summitt left after the 2011-12 season. Here’s what happened in the 2012-13 season:
Despite losing all five starters from the previous season, they went 27-8, finished first in the SEC, and went to the Elite Eight under Rookie Coach-of the Year Holly Warlick.

I posted several weeks ago that I had always been concerned that having Kate Paye replace Tara was going to have the same result as occurred at Tennessee. After today’s game I would be absolutely ecstatic if we had half as good a result…

Muir hired 2 new basketball coaches about a year ago. Based on evidence to date, it looks like he got one right, at least.

[Mudhead]

Retaining talent This Year is very important to our future.  I F Nunu and Clardy leave, or even just Nunu, we will be branded as a farm team where you go to get talent rather then waste time developing it yourself. Every effort, whether it’s financial (NIL), coaching relationship , team mate interaction, mental health or Stanford being a welcoming, enjoyable place to live and study has to,be made and made now.

I fear that if I were 19 or 20 years old and a very good player I would be tired of losing and tired of being in a second rate program for the rest of my career. The lure of a good team with a pleasant campus experience and an exciting future would be very great .

I think Levin’s leadership will get the Stanford experience back on track and that Kate Paye has the talent and moxie to lead amd to convince that this is a one year trough , not a trend. I’m optimistic but very worried . I just hope everyone understands that this year and the next few months are very, very important. We have to realize that the old model based on the perceived value of a.stanford degree will no longer work.

Optimistic but frightened.

[Mudhead]

Retaining talent This Year is very important to our future.  I F Nunu and Clardy leave, or even just Nunu, we will be branded as a farm team where you go to get talent rather then waste time developing it yourself. Every effort, whether it’s financial (NIL), coaching relationship , team mate interaction, mental health or Stanford being a welcoming, enjoyable place to live and study has to,be made and made now.

I fear that if I were 19 or 20 years old and a very good player I would be tired of losing and tired of being in a second rate program for the rest of my career. The lure of a good team with a pleasant campus experience and an exciting future would be very great .

I think Levin’s leadership will get the Stanford experience back on track and that Kate Paye has the talent and moxie to lead amd to convince that this is a one year trough , not a trend. I’m optimistic but very worried . I just hope everyone understands that this year and the next few months are very, very important. We have to realize that the old model based on the perceived value of a.stanford degree will no longer work.

Optimistic but frightened.

[JohnR34231]

Yeah, the main thing I'm hoping for now is we can retain the top young talent of this year's team and hold on to our excellent recruiting class.
Just hope we can win enough games and look good enough in the rest of the season to do that.
KP will have a challenging sales job ahead of her. Wonder if she has the resources (meaning $$$) to do that with.

[JohnR34231]

Yeah, the main thing I'm hoping for now is we can retain the top young talent of this year's team and hold on to our excellent recruiting class.
Just hope we can win enough games and look good enough in the rest of the season to do that.
KP will have a challenging sales job ahead of her. Wonder if she has the resources (meaning $$$) to do that with.

[81alum]

I just hope everyone understands that this year and the next few months are very, very important.

Yes, the future of Stanford WBB now comes down to retaining our existing players and next year's stellar recruits.  If we do that, then next year could be a positive rebuilding year.  But if we keep hemorrhaging talent then a lot of folks are going to give up on us.

[81alum]

I just hope everyone understands that this year and the next few months are very, very important.

Yes, the future of Stanford WBB now comes down to retaining our existing players and next year's stellar recruits.  If we do that, then next year could be a positive rebuilding year.  But if we keep hemorrhaging talent then a lot of folks are going to give up on us.

[terry]

I just hope everyone understands that this year and the next few months are very, very important.

Yes, the future of Stanford WBB now comes down to retaining our existing players and next year's stellar recruits.  If we do that, then next year could be a positive rebuilding year.  But if we keep hemorrhaging talent then a lot of folks are going to give up on us.

If this program is going to be relevant, we probably need to spend a lot of cash to retain and/or acquire several key players and recruits this year.

[terry]

I just hope everyone understands that this year and the next few months are very, very important.

Yes, the future of Stanford WBB now comes down to retaining our existing players and next year's stellar recruits.  If we do that, then next year could be a positive rebuilding year.  But if we keep hemorrhaging talent then a lot of folks are going to give up on us.

If this program is going to be relevant, we probably need to spend a lot of cash to retain and/or acquire several key players and recruits this year.

[JohnR34231]

I just hope everyone understands that this year and the next few months are very, very important.

Yes, the future of Stanford WBB now comes down to retaining our existing players and next year's stellar recruits.  If we do that, then next year could be a positive rebuilding year.  But if we keep hemorrhaging talent then a lot of folks are going to give up on us.

If this program is going to be relevant, we probably need to spend a lot of cash to retain and/or acquire several key players and recruits this year.

I just hope it's cash we have or can get.

[JohnR34231]

I just hope everyone understands that this year and the next few months are very, very important.

Yes, the future of Stanford WBB now comes down to retaining our existing players and next year's stellar recruits.  If we do that, then next year could be a positive rebuilding year.  But if we keep hemorrhaging talent then a lot of folks are going to give up on us.

If this program is going to be relevant, we probably need to spend a lot of cash to retain and/or acquire several key players and recruits this year.

I just hope it's cash we have or can get.

[BillBradley]

I just rewatched the second quarter because I wanted to better understand what happened. It was 24-13 when ND went on a 26-2 run. During that stretch, so many of their points came in transition while our players were simply jogging back. We would miss a shot, crash the boards, and they would get an easy transition bucket at the other end while our rebounders were somewhere between half court and the top of the key. Or, we would turn it over and same thing - half our team would jog back. One response to this could be "well, Notre Dame is just way faster than us. That's why they are so good." Yeah, not having any of that. There is no excuse for a team to ever take plays off on defense. Our team showed very little interest in competing. That's why ND scored 96 instead of 76, even with the turnovers. And if we hit a few shots along the way, we score 62 instead of 47. 76-62 is more like what it should have been. Embarrassing.

[BillBradley]

I just rewatched the second quarter because I wanted to better understand what happened. It was 24-13 when ND went on a 26-2 run. During that stretch, so many of their points came in transition while our players were simply jogging back. We would miss a shot, crash the boards, and they would get an easy transition bucket at the other end while our rebounders were somewhere between half court and the top of the key. Or, we would turn it over and same thing - half our team would jog back. One response to this could be "well, Notre Dame is just way faster than us. That's why they are so good." Yeah, not having any of that. There is no excuse for a team to ever take plays off on defense. Our team showed very little interest in competing. That's why ND scored 96 instead of 76, even with the turnovers. And if we hit a few shots along the way, we score 62 instead of 47. 76-62 is more like what it should have been. Embarrassing.

[AndyCardinal03]

Below are the stats in ACC play for our rotation players, and the picture is ugly. No one on the team has a positive assist-to-turnover ratio (Chloe is even). The shooting numbers are dreadful - 39.3% fg overall, 42.5% on 2pters (!), 33.1% 3pt, 77.4 % on ft (thanks to Nunu). Even Nunu's shooting has cratered in conference play. It's incredible to look at Brooke and Elena's numbers in conference play compared to where they were early in the year (Brooke's game at LSU was so good!). Shay seems like she's a better fit out there because she plays with energy and I have to think her defensive presence is better than Heal, but her offensive numbers are really really bad.

Looking at these collectively, I agree with the earlier post that the future is pretty much just Nunu, Clardy and the incoming recruits. And that's if we can hold it all together before they arrive (and/or don't lose commitments). 

Nunu Agara 11g, 30.6 min, 15.5 pts, 39.0% fg, 29.6% 3p, 84.2% ft, 
                           8.4reb, 2.0 ast, 3.2 to, 0.3 stl, 0.5 blk, 2.4 fls.
 
Chloe Clardy 11g, 30.5 min, 10.3pts, 40.2% fg, 36.4% 3pt, 88.5% ft,
                           2.9 reb, 1.7 ast, 1.7to, 1.0 stl, 0.0 blk, 1.6 fls.
 
Elena Bosgana 11g, 30.1 min, 10.5pts, 38.6% fg, 28.6% 3pt, 78.6% ft,
                            6.3 reb, 2.3 ast, 2.4to, 1.1  stl, 0.3 blk, 2.0 fls
 
Brooke Demetre 11g, 26.1 min, 8 pts, 37.8% fg, 36.0% 3pt, 72.7% ft, 
                             3.4 reb, 1.5ast, 1.8 to, 0.5 stl, 1.0 blk, 2.0 fls.
 
Shay Ijiwoye 11g, 22 min, 4.8 pts, 38.8% fg, 27.8% 3pt, 45.5% ft, 
                         2.2 reb, 1.1 ast, 2.0 to, 0.9 stl, 0.1 blk, 3.0 fls.
 
Tess Heal 11g, 21.3 min, 7.0 pts, 48.3% fg, 47.8% 3pt, 80.0% ft,
                            2.2 reb, 0.8 ast, 1.3 to, 0.2 stl, 0.3 blk, 0.9 fls.
 
Courtney Ogden 11g, 19 min, 3.8 pts, 44.7% fg, 66.7% 3pt, 66.7% ft,
                              2.8 reb, 1.1 ast, 1.5 to, 0.4 stl, 0.0 blk, 1.5 fls.

M.A. Stevenson 11g, 12.2 min, 1.8 pts, 33.3% fg, 0.0% 3pt, 75.0% ft, 
                              1.9 reb, 0.5 ast, 0.8 to, 0.1 stl, 0.1 blk, 1.1 fls.

Hopefully this is rock bottom, but if Nunu's out for a while, then it could get even worse down the stretch. 

[AndyCardinal03]

Below are the stats in ACC play for our rotation players, and the picture is ugly. No one on the team has a positive assist-to-turnover ratio (Chloe is even). The shooting numbers are dreadful - 39.3% fg overall, 42.5% on 2pters (!), 33.1% 3pt, 77.4 % on ft (thanks to Nunu). Even Nunu's shooting has cratered in conference play. It's incredible to look at Brooke and Elena's numbers in conference play compared to where they were early in the year (Brooke's game at LSU was so good!). Shay seems like she's a better fit out there because she plays with energy and I have to think her defensive presence is better than Heal, but her offensive numbers are really really bad.

Looking at these collectively, I agree with the earlier post that the future is pretty much just Nunu, Clardy and the incoming recruits. And that's if we can hold it all together before they arrive (and/or don't lose commitments). 

Nunu Agara 11g, 30.6 min, 15.5 pts, 39.0% fg, 29.6% 3p, 84.2% ft, 
                           8.4reb, 2.0 ast, 3.2 to, 0.3 stl, 0.5 blk, 2.4 fls.
 
Chloe Clardy 11g, 30.5 min, 10.3pts, 40.2% fg, 36.4% 3pt, 88.5% ft,
                           2.9 reb, 1.7 ast, 1.7to, 1.0 stl, 0.0 blk, 1.6 fls.
 
Elena Bosgana 11g, 30.1 min, 10.5pts, 38.6% fg, 28.6% 3pt, 78.6% ft,
                            6.3 reb, 2.3 ast, 2.4to, 1.1  stl, 0.3 blk, 2.0 fls
 
Brooke Demetre 11g, 26.1 min, 8 pts, 37.8% fg, 36.0% 3pt, 72.7% ft, 
                             3.4 reb, 1.5ast, 1.8 to, 0.5 stl, 1.0 blk, 2.0 fls.
 
Shay Ijiwoye 11g, 22 min, 4.8 pts, 38.8% fg, 27.8% 3pt, 45.5% ft, 
                         2.2 reb, 1.1 ast, 2.0 to, 0.9 stl, 0.1 blk, 3.0 fls.
 
Tess Heal 11g, 21.3 min, 7.0 pts, 48.3% fg, 47.8% 3pt, 80.0% ft,
                            2.2 reb, 0.8 ast, 1.3 to, 0.2 stl, 0.3 blk, 0.9 fls.
 
Courtney Ogden 11g, 19 min, 3.8 pts, 44.7% fg, 66.7% 3pt, 66.7% ft,
                              2.8 reb, 1.1 ast, 1.5 to, 0.4 stl, 0.0 blk, 1.5 fls.

M.A. Stevenson 11g, 12.2 min, 1.8 pts, 33.3% fg, 0.0% 3pt, 75.0% ft, 
                              1.9 reb, 0.5 ast, 0.8 to, 0.1 stl, 0.1 blk, 1.1 fls.

Hopefully this is rock bottom, but if Nunu's out for a while, then it could get even worse down the stretch.