[CompSci87]

An apt example for us is Shea Ralph, 13-year assistant to Auriemma, left UConn and took the Vanderbilt head coaching job 5 years ago. They are now 27-4  and currently projected by ESPN to be a #2-seed in the NCAA tournament. She is the SEC coach of the year and The Athletic's national Coach of the Year. Before she arrived, Vandy was 14-16 in 2019-2020 and then 4-4 in the pandemic year, and 16-19 her first year at Vandy. 12-19 her second year as head coach. 23-10 her third year. then 22-11 and now 27-4. She did get help this year and last from sophomore Mikayla Blakes who is the SEC player of the year. Great coaches convince great players to buy into their program

So this means we can expect a win total in the 20's from Kate next year, right?

Only one data point, which there could have been many reasons for, but Blakes was down to Stanford and Vanderbilt, and chose Vandy.

[CompSci87]

An apt example for us is Shea Ralph, 13-year assistant to Auriemma, left UConn and took the Vanderbilt head coaching job 5 years ago. They are now 27-4  and currently projected by ESPN to be a #2-seed in the NCAA tournament. She is the SEC coach of the year and The Athletic's national Coach of the Year. Before she arrived, Vandy was 14-16 in 2019-2020 and then 4-4 in the pandemic year, and 16-19 her first year at Vandy. 12-19 her second year as head coach. 23-10 her third year. then 22-11 and now 27-4. She did get help this year and last from sophomore Mikayla Blakes who is the SEC player of the year. Great coaches convince great players to buy into their program

So this means we can expect a win total in the 20's from Kate next year, right?

Only one data point, which there could have been many reasons for, but Blakes was down to Stanford and Vanderbilt, and chose Vandy.

[Jskass]

An apt example for us is Shea Ralph, 13-year assistant to Auriemma, left UConn and took the Vanderbilt head coaching job 5 years ago. They are now 27-4  and currently projected by ESPN to be a #2-seed in the NCAA tournament. She is the SEC coach of the year and The Athletic's national Coach of the Year. Before she arrived, Vandy was 14-16 in 2019-2020 and then 4-4 in the pandemic year, and 16-19 her first year at Vandy. 12-19 her second year as head coach. 23-10 her third year. then 22-11 and now 27-4. She did get help this year and last from sophomore Mikayla Blakes who is the SEC player of the year. Great coaches convince great players to buy into their program

So this means we can expect a win total in the 20's from Kate next year, right?

Only one data point, which there could have been many reasons for, but Blakes was down to Stanford and Vanderbilt, and chose Vandy.

which begs the question why we keep "just missing out" on the Blakes, the Hidalgos, all the others...perhaps relates to something Stanford cannot control but also perhaps to confidence inspired by the coaching?

[Jskass]

An apt example for us is Shea Ralph, 13-year assistant to Auriemma, left UConn and took the Vanderbilt head coaching job 5 years ago. They are now 27-4  and currently projected by ESPN to be a #2-seed in the NCAA tournament. She is the SEC coach of the year and The Athletic's national Coach of the Year. Before she arrived, Vandy was 14-16 in 2019-2020 and then 4-4 in the pandemic year, and 16-19 her first year at Vandy. 12-19 her second year as head coach. 23-10 her third year. then 22-11 and now 27-4. She did get help this year and last from sophomore Mikayla Blakes who is the SEC player of the year. Great coaches convince great players to buy into their program

So this means we can expect a win total in the 20's from Kate next year, right?

Only one data point, which there could have been many reasons for, but Blakes was down to Stanford and Vanderbilt, and chose Vandy.

which begs the question why we keep "just missing out" on the Blakes, the Hidalgos, all the others...perhaps relates to something Stanford cannot control but also perhaps to confidence inspired by the coaching?

[MV72018]

Never trust fake news.  Never
Did all players get paid no clue certainly doubt it.

Is that admonition addressed to those of us who are tempted to trust fake news?! Thanks for the wise counsel, Bob!

[MV72018]

Never trust fake news.  Never
Did all players get paid no clue certainly doubt it.

Is that admonition addressed to those of us who are tempted to trust fake news?! Thanks for the wise counsel, Bob!

[JohnR34231]

An apt example for us is Shea Ralph, 13-year assistant to Auriemma, left UConn and took the Vanderbilt head coaching job 5 years ago. They are now 27-4  and currently projected by ESPN to be a #2-seed in the NCAA tournament. She is the SEC coach of the year and The Athletic's national Coach of the Year. Before she arrived, Vandy was 14-16 in 2019-2020 and then 4-4 in the pandemic year, and 16-19 her first year at Vandy. 12-19 her second year as head coach. 23-10 her third year. then 22-11 and now 27-4. She did get help this year and last from sophomore Mikayla Blakes who is the SEC player of the year. Great coaches convince great players to buy into their program

So this means we can expect a win total in the 20's from Kate next year, right?

Only one data point, which there could have been many reasons for, but Blakes was down to Stanford and Vanderbilt, and chose Vandy.

which begs the question why we keep "just missing out" on the Blakes, the Hidalgos, all the others...perhaps relates to something Stanford cannot control but also perhaps to confidence inspired by the coaching?

In my many years of tutoring at Florida State, I have asked kids who were recruited by both FSU and Stanford why they chose the former. One of the reasons was almost always Stanford was too far from home.
One of the kids said Stanford was too far from home and too academic. He had gone to the same high school my kids had. Ouch.

[JohnR34231]

An apt example for us is Shea Ralph, 13-year assistant to Auriemma, left UConn and took the Vanderbilt head coaching job 5 years ago. They are now 27-4  and currently projected by ESPN to be a #2-seed in the NCAA tournament. She is the SEC coach of the year and The Athletic's national Coach of the Year. Before she arrived, Vandy was 14-16 in 2019-2020 and then 4-4 in the pandemic year, and 16-19 her first year at Vandy. 12-19 her second year as head coach. 23-10 her third year. then 22-11 and now 27-4. She did get help this year and last from sophomore Mikayla Blakes who is the SEC player of the year. Great coaches convince great players to buy into their program

So this means we can expect a win total in the 20's from Kate next year, right?

Only one data point, which there could have been many reasons for, but Blakes was down to Stanford and Vanderbilt, and chose Vandy.

which begs the question why we keep "just missing out" on the Blakes, the Hidalgos, all the others...perhaps relates to something Stanford cannot control but also perhaps to confidence inspired by the coaching?

In my many years of tutoring at Florida State, I have asked kids who were recruited by both FSU and Stanford why they chose the former. One of the reasons was almost always Stanford was too far from home.
One of the kids said Stanford was too far from home and too academic. He had gone to the same high school my kids had. Ouch.

[MV72018]

An apt example for us is Shea Ralph, 13-year assistant to Auriemma, left UConn and took the Vanderbilt head coaching job 5 years ago. They are now 27-4  and currently projected by ESPN to be a #2-seed in the NCAA tournament. She is the SEC coach of the year and The Athletic's national Coach of the Year. Before she arrived, Vandy was 14-16 in 2019-2020 and then 4-4 in the pandemic year, and 16-19 her first year at Vandy. 12-19 her second year as head coach. 23-10 her third year. then 22-11 and now 27-4. She did get help this year and last from sophomore Mikayla Blakes who is the SEC player of the year. Great coaches convince great players to buy into their program

So this means we can expect a win total in the 20's from Kate next year, right?

Only one data point, which there could have been many reasons for, but Blakes was down to Stanford and Vanderbilt, and chose Vandy.

which begs the question why we keep "just missing out" on the Blakes, the Hidalgos, all the others...perhaps relates to something Stanford cannot control but also perhaps to confidence inspired by the coaching?

In my many years of tutoring at Florida State, I have asked kids who were recruited by both FSU and Stanford why they chose the former. One of the reasons was almost always Stanford was too far from home.
One of the kids said Stanford was too far from home and too academic. He had gone to the same high school my kids had. Ouch.

"Stanford is too academic! I want to go to a school where I don't have to take pesky hard courses and can major in 'Party and Ballroom Studies' to prepare me for grad school and life at Mar a Lago downstream."

[MV72018]

An apt example for us is Shea Ralph, 13-year assistant to Auriemma, left UConn and took the Vanderbilt head coaching job 5 years ago. They are now 27-4  and currently projected by ESPN to be a #2-seed in the NCAA tournament. She is the SEC coach of the year and The Athletic's national Coach of the Year. Before she arrived, Vandy was 14-16 in 2019-2020 and then 4-4 in the pandemic year, and 16-19 her first year at Vandy. 12-19 her second year as head coach. 23-10 her third year. then 22-11 and now 27-4. She did get help this year and last from sophomore Mikayla Blakes who is the SEC player of the year. Great coaches convince great players to buy into their program

So this means we can expect a win total in the 20's from Kate next year, right?

Only one data point, which there could have been many reasons for, but Blakes was down to Stanford and Vanderbilt, and chose Vandy.

which begs the question why we keep "just missing out" on the Blakes, the Hidalgos, all the others...perhaps relates to something Stanford cannot control but also perhaps to confidence inspired by the coaching?

In my many years of tutoring at Florida State, I have asked kids who were recruited by both FSU and Stanford why they chose the former. One of the reasons was almost always Stanford was too far from home.
One of the kids said Stanford was too far from home and too academic. He had gone to the same high school my kids had. Ouch.

"Stanford is too academic! I want to go to a school where I don't have to take pesky hard courses and can major in 'Party and Ballroom Studies' to prepare me for grad school and life at Mar a Lago downstream."

[OCcardinal]

So it is Kate’s fault that with 10 ESPN top 100 recruits on the team, she couldn’t figure out a way to get the team to play to its potential and to reach the big dance. 

There is a lot of talent on the roster, more than enough to make the tournament, but there are some factors to consider other than recruiting rankings: 3 of the 4 top rated recruits are freshman, the team's leading scorer (Nunu) missed key games with injuries, and the starting senior point guard (Lepolo) suffered a season ending injury.  Also, while a team like Miami may not be that deep in terms of highly-recruited players, they do have 6-6 5-star (and 6th year senior) Ra'Shaya Kyle on the roster, which limited our talented bigs.  (There is only 1 player in a major conference who has averaged more points and rebounds per game this season than Kyle.)

Also, my count of top 100 players is slightly different than yours. I count 11 ESPNW 100 players, 8 of whom were available for the ACC tournament (3 frosh, 1 sophomore and 4 juniors).

Available for ACC Tournament - ESPNW Top 100
8 Hailee Swain Freshman G 5-11
10 Courtney Ogden Junior 2023 W 6-1
12 Lara Somfai Freshman F 6-4
21 Alexandra Eschmeyer Freshman F 6-5
37 Nunu Agara Junior F 6-2 (injured for a number of key games)
39 Chloe Clardy Junior 39 G 5-9
53 Shay Ijiwoye Sophomore G 5-6
97 Mary Ashley Stevenson Junior F 6-2

Available for ACC Tournament But Not ESPNW Top 100
4-star Nora Ezike Freshman F 6-2
4-star Carly Amborn Freshman W 6-2
unranked Stavi Papadaki Senior G 5-11
unranked Lauren Green Senior G 5-8

Injured Top 100 - Not Available:
44 Kennedy Umeh Sophomore F 6-3
71 Talana Lepolo Senior G 5-7
88 Harper Peterson Sophomore F 6-3

[OCcardinal]

So it is Kate’s fault that with 10 ESPN top 100 recruits on the team, she couldn’t figure out a way to get the team to play to its potential and to reach the big dance. 

There is a lot of talent on the roster, more than enough to make the tournament, but there are some factors to consider other than recruiting rankings: 3 of the 4 top rated recruits are freshman, the team's leading scorer (Nunu) missed key games with injuries, and the starting senior point guard (Lepolo) suffered a season ending injury.  Also, while a team like Miami may not be that deep in terms of highly-recruited players, they do have 6-6 5-star (and 6th year senior) Ra'Shaya Kyle on the roster, which limited our talented bigs.  (There is only 1 player in a major conference who has averaged more points and rebounds per game this season than Kyle.)

Also, my count of top 100 players is slightly different than yours. I count 11 ESPNW 100 players, 8 of whom were available for the ACC tournament (3 frosh, 1 sophomore and 4 juniors).

Available for ACC Tournament - ESPNW Top 100
8 Hailee Swain Freshman G 5-11
10 Courtney Ogden Junior 2023 W 6-1
12 Lara Somfai Freshman F 6-4
21 Alexandra Eschmeyer Freshman F 6-5
37 Nunu Agara Junior F 6-2 (injured for a number of key games)
39 Chloe Clardy Junior 39 G 5-9
53 Shay Ijiwoye Sophomore G 5-6
97 Mary Ashley Stevenson Junior F 6-2

Available for ACC Tournament But Not ESPNW Top 100
4-star Nora Ezike Freshman F 6-2
4-star Carly Amborn Freshman W 6-2
unranked Stavi Papadaki Senior G 5-11
unranked Lauren Green Senior G 5-8

Injured Top 100 - Not Available:
44 Kennedy Umeh Sophomore F 6-3
71 Talana Lepolo Senior G 5-7
88 Harper Peterson Sophomore F 6-3

[JohnR34231]

So it is Kate’s fault that with 10 ESPN top 100 recruits on the team, she couldn’t figure out a way to get the team to play to its potential and to reach the big dance. 

There is a lot of talent on the roster, more than enough to make the tournament, but there are some factors to consider other than recruiting rankings: 3 of the 4 top rated recruits are freshman, the team's leading scorer (Nunu) missed key games with injuries, and the starting senior point guard (Lepolo) suffered a season ending injury.  Also, while a team like Miami may not be that deep in terms of highly-recruited players, they do have 6-6 5-star (and 6th year senior) Ra'Shaya Kyle on the roster, which limited our talented bigs.  (There is only 1 player in a major conference who has averaged more points and rebounds per game this season than Kyle.)

Also, my count of top 100 players is slightly different than yours. I count 11 ESPNW 100 players, 8 of whom were available for the ACC tournament (3 frosh, 1 sophomore and 4 juniors).

Available for ACC Tournament - ESPNW Top 100
8 Hailee Swain Freshman G 5-11
10 Courtney Ogden Junior 2023 W 6-1
12 Lara Somfai Freshman F 6-4
21 Alexandra Eschmeyer Freshman F 6-5
37 Nunu Agara Junior F 6-2 (injured for a number of key games)
39 Chloe Clardy Junior 39 G 5-9
53 Shay Ijiwoye Sophomore G 5-6
97 Mary Ashley Stevenson Junior F 6-2

Available for ACC Tournament But Not ESPNW Top 100
4-star Nora Ezike Freshman F 6-2
4-star Carly Amborn Freshman W 6-2
unranked Stavi Papadaki Senior G 5-11
unranked Lauren Green Senior G 5-8

Injured Top 100 - Not Available:
44 Kennedy Umeh Sophomore F 6-3
71 Talana Lepolo Senior G 5-7
88 Harper Peterson Sophomore F 6-3

---

Actually Ezike was 91 on the top 100.

[JohnR34231]

So it is Kate’s fault that with 10 ESPN top 100 recruits on the team, she couldn’t figure out a way to get the team to play to its potential and to reach the big dance. 

There is a lot of talent on the roster, more than enough to make the tournament, but there are some factors to consider other than recruiting rankings: 3 of the 4 top rated recruits are freshman, the team's leading scorer (Nunu) missed key games with injuries, and the starting senior point guard (Lepolo) suffered a season ending injury.  Also, while a team like Miami may not be that deep in terms of highly-recruited players, they do have 6-6 5-star (and 6th year senior) Ra'Shaya Kyle on the roster, which limited our talented bigs.  (There is only 1 player in a major conference who has averaged more points and rebounds per game this season than Kyle.)

Also, my count of top 100 players is slightly different than yours. I count 11 ESPNW 100 players, 8 of whom were available for the ACC tournament (3 frosh, 1 sophomore and 4 juniors).

Available for ACC Tournament - ESPNW Top 100
8 Hailee Swain Freshman G 5-11
10 Courtney Ogden Junior 2023 W 6-1
12 Lara Somfai Freshman F 6-4
21 Alexandra Eschmeyer Freshman F 6-5
37 Nunu Agara Junior F 6-2 (injured for a number of key games)
39 Chloe Clardy Junior 39 G 5-9
53 Shay Ijiwoye Sophomore G 5-6
97 Mary Ashley Stevenson Junior F 6-2

Available for ACC Tournament But Not ESPNW Top 100
4-star Nora Ezike Freshman F 6-2
4-star Carly Amborn Freshman W 6-2
unranked Stavi Papadaki Senior G 5-11
unranked Lauren Green Senior G 5-8

Injured Top 100 - Not Available:
44 Kennedy Umeh Sophomore F 6-3
71 Talana Lepolo Senior G 5-7
88 Harper Peterson Sophomore F 6-3

---

Actually Ezike was 91 on the top 100.

[MV72018]

So it is Kate’s fault that with 10 ESPN top 100 recruits on the team, she couldn’t figure out a way to get the team to play to its potential and to reach the big dance. 

There is a lot of talent on the roster, more than enough to make the tournament, but there are some factors to consider other than recruiting rankings: 3 of the 4 top rated recruits are freshman, the team's leading scorer (Nunu) missed key games with injuries, and the starting senior point guard (Lepolo) suffered a season ending injury.  Also, while a team like Miami may not be that deep in terms of highly-recruited players, they do have 6-6 5-star (and 6th year senior) Ra'Shaya Kyle on the roster, which limited our talented bigs.  (There is only 1 player in a major conference who has averaged more points and rebounds per game this season than Kyle.)

Also, my count of top 100 players is slightly different than yours. I count 11 ESPNW 100 players, 8 of whom were available for the ACC tournament (3 frosh, 1 sophomore and 4 juniors).

Available for ACC Tournament - ESPNW Top 100
8 Hailee Swain Freshman G 5-11
10 Courtney Ogden Junior 2023 W 6-1
12 Lara Somfai Freshman F 6-4
21 Alexandra Eschmeyer Freshman F 6-5
37 Nunu Agara Junior F 6-2 (injured for a number of key games)
39 Chloe Clardy Junior 39 G 5-9
53 Shay Ijiwoye Sophomore G 5-6
97 Mary Ashley Stevenson Junior F 6-2

Available for ACC Tournament But Not ESPNW Top 100
4-star Nora Ezike Freshman F 6-2
4-star Carly Amborn Freshman W 6-2
unranked Stavi Papadaki Senior G 5-11
unranked Lauren Green Senior G 5-8

Injured Top 100 - Not Available:
44 Kennedy Umeh Sophomore F 6-3
71 Talana Lepolo Senior G 5-7
88 Harper Peterson Sophomore F 6-3

---

Actually Ezike was 91 on the top 100.

To see that some of these players were rated in the top 100 boggles the mind. Such ratings are far from infallible.

[MV72018]

So it is Kate’s fault that with 10 ESPN top 100 recruits on the team, she couldn’t figure out a way to get the team to play to its potential and to reach the big dance. 

There is a lot of talent on the roster, more than enough to make the tournament, but there are some factors to consider other than recruiting rankings: 3 of the 4 top rated recruits are freshman, the team's leading scorer (Nunu) missed key games with injuries, and the starting senior point guard (Lepolo) suffered a season ending injury.  Also, while a team like Miami may not be that deep in terms of highly-recruited players, they do have 6-6 5-star (and 6th year senior) Ra'Shaya Kyle on the roster, which limited our talented bigs.  (There is only 1 player in a major conference who has averaged more points and rebounds per game this season than Kyle.)

Also, my count of top 100 players is slightly different than yours. I count 11 ESPNW 100 players, 8 of whom were available for the ACC tournament (3 frosh, 1 sophomore and 4 juniors).

Available for ACC Tournament - ESPNW Top 100
8 Hailee Swain Freshman G 5-11
10 Courtney Ogden Junior 2023 W 6-1
12 Lara Somfai Freshman F 6-4
21 Alexandra Eschmeyer Freshman F 6-5
37 Nunu Agara Junior F 6-2 (injured for a number of key games)
39 Chloe Clardy Junior 39 G 5-9
53 Shay Ijiwoye Sophomore G 5-6
97 Mary Ashley Stevenson Junior F 6-2

Available for ACC Tournament But Not ESPNW Top 100
4-star Nora Ezike Freshman F 6-2
4-star Carly Amborn Freshman W 6-2
unranked Stavi Papadaki Senior G 5-11
unranked Lauren Green Senior G 5-8

Injured Top 100 - Not Available:
44 Kennedy Umeh Sophomore F 6-3
71 Talana Lepolo Senior G 5-7
88 Harper Peterson Sophomore F 6-3

---

Actually Ezike was 91 on the top 100.

To see that some of these players were rated in the top 100 boggles the mind. Such ratings are far from infallible.

[jonnyss]

To see that some of these players were rated in the top 100 boggles the mind. Such ratings are far from infallible.

i suppose that's true, but wouldn't we want a coach who sees talent that scouts don't? the diamonds in the rough? the players that turn out to play higher than their rankings rather than the players who play lower than their rankings?

[jonnyss]

To see that some of these players were rated in the top 100 boggles the mind. Such ratings are far from infallible.

i suppose that's true, but wouldn't we want a coach who sees talent that scouts don't? the diamonds in the rough? the players that turn out to play higher than their rankings rather than the players who play lower than their rankings?

[stopandpop]

An apt example for us is Shea Ralph, 13-year assistant to Auriemma, left UConn and took the Vanderbilt head coaching job 5 years ago. They are now 27-4  and currently projected by ESPN to be a #2-seed in the NCAA tournament. She is the SEC coach of the year and The Athletic's national Coach of the Year. Before she arrived, Vandy was 14-16 in 2019-2020 and then 4-4 in the pandemic year, and 16-19 her first year at Vandy. 12-19 her second year as head coach. 23-10 her third year. then 22-11 and now 27-4. She did get help this year and last from sophomore Mikayla Blakes who is the SEC player of the year. Great coaches convince great players to buy into their program

So this means we can expect a win total in the 20's from Kate next year, right?

Only one data point, which there could have been many reasons for, but Blakes was down to Stanford and Vanderbilt, and chose Vandy.

which begs the question why we keep "just missing out" on the Blakes, the Hidalgos, all the others...perhaps relates to something Stanford cannot control but also perhaps to confidence inspired by the coaching?

In my many years of tutoring at Florida State, I have asked kids who were recruited by both FSU and Stanford why they chose the former. One of the reasons was almost always Stanford was too far from home.
One of the kids said Stanford was too far from home and too academic. He had gone to the same high school my kids had. Ouch.

There are multiple reasons, but one I have heard on more than one occasion from a source I trust is that some of the elite guards and wings Stanford has recruited have been turned-off by Stanford's more structured offense (this goes back to the Tara era, but certainly the Kate Paye era) that (they believe) would not give them the freedom and creativity to operate when they had the ball.

This source tells me that the more structured offense was one (but not all the reasons) why Stanford lost out to Kiki Rice and Juju Watkins.  I have no inside knowledge regarding Blakes.

[stopandpop]

An apt example for us is Shea Ralph, 13-year assistant to Auriemma, left UConn and took the Vanderbilt head coaching job 5 years ago. They are now 27-4  and currently projected by ESPN to be a #2-seed in the NCAA tournament. She is the SEC coach of the year and The Athletic's national Coach of the Year. Before she arrived, Vandy was 14-16 in 2019-2020 and then 4-4 in the pandemic year, and 16-19 her first year at Vandy. 12-19 her second year as head coach. 23-10 her third year. then 22-11 and now 27-4. She did get help this year and last from sophomore Mikayla Blakes who is the SEC player of the year. Great coaches convince great players to buy into their program

So this means we can expect a win total in the 20's from Kate next year, right?

Only one data point, which there could have been many reasons for, but Blakes was down to Stanford and Vanderbilt, and chose Vandy.

which begs the question why we keep "just missing out" on the Blakes, the Hidalgos, all the others...perhaps relates to something Stanford cannot control but also perhaps to confidence inspired by the coaching?

In my many years of tutoring at Florida State, I have asked kids who were recruited by both FSU and Stanford why they chose the former. One of the reasons was almost always Stanford was too far from home.
One of the kids said Stanford was too far from home and too academic. He had gone to the same high school my kids had. Ouch.

There are multiple reasons, but one I have heard on more than one occasion from a source I trust is that some of the elite guards and wings Stanford has recruited have been turned-off by Stanford's more structured offense (this goes back to the Tara era, but certainly the Kate Paye era) that (they believe) would not give them the freedom and creativity to operate when they had the ball.

This source tells me that the more structured offense was one (but not all the reasons) why Stanford lost out to Kiki Rice and Juju Watkins.  I have no inside knowledge regarding Blakes.

[MV72018]

To see that some of these players were rated in the top 100 boggles the mind. Such ratings are far from infallible.

i suppose that's true, but wouldn't we want a coach who sees talent that scouts don't? the diamonds in the rough? the players that turn out to play higher than their rankings rather than the players who play lower than their rankings?

Mais oui! Bien sur!

[MV72018]

To see that some of these players were rated in the top 100 boggles the mind. Such ratings are far from infallible.

i suppose that's true, but wouldn't we want a coach who sees talent that scouts don't? the diamonds in the rough? the players that turn out to play higher than their rankings rather than the players who play lower than their rankings?

Mais oui! Bien sur!

[qwerty49]

To see that some of these players were rated in the top 100 boggles the mind. Such ratings are far from infallible.

i suppose that's true, but wouldn't we want a coach who sees talent that scouts don't? the diamonds in the rough? the players that turn out to play higher than their rankings rather than the players who play lower than their rankings?

Well wait a minute. Let’s assume the ratings are generally accurate. If someone plays higher than their rating, isn’t good coaching the first reason that comes to mind? And if someone plays lower than their rating, isn’t lack of good coaching the first reason that comes to mind?  It’s not like the player just takes a magic pill.

If those ratings are even remotely accurate it’s pretty clear to me we underperformed — and that is just poor coaching on many fronts.

If our system doesn’t fit the talent, good coaching makes the necessary adjustments.

[qwerty49]

To see that some of these players were rated in the top 100 boggles the mind. Such ratings are far from infallible.

i suppose that's true, but wouldn't we want a coach who sees talent that scouts don't? the diamonds in the rough? the players that turn out to play higher than their rankings rather than the players who play lower than their rankings?

Well wait a minute. Let’s assume the ratings are generally accurate. If someone plays higher than their rating, isn’t good coaching the first reason that comes to mind? And if someone plays lower than their rating, isn’t lack of good coaching the first reason that comes to mind?  It’s not like the player just takes a magic pill.

If those ratings are even remotely accurate it’s pretty clear to me we underperformed — and that is just poor coaching on many fronts.

If our system doesn’t fit the talent, good coaching makes the necessary adjustments.

[Griffins78]

We’ve been “grading” Kate’s performance and discussing the characteristics of the kind of coach we need to be successful in this era. I suggest you give a listen to players Lauren Betts and Angela Dugilic and Coach Cori Close during UCLA’s post game press conference [link to video] after beating Duke. And contrast the values, mantras, sayings, concepts they talk about vs. the “Tara-isms,” like “sometimes you’re the dog and sometimes you’re the hydrant” or “they already cast the movie Dumb and Dumber and you weren’t in it”

[Griffins78]

We’ve been “grading” Kate’s performance and discussing the characteristics of the kind of coach we need to be successful in this era. I suggest you give a listen to players Lauren Betts and Angela Dugilic and Coach Cori Close during UCLA’s post game press conference [link to video] after beating Duke. And contrast the values, mantras, sayings, concepts they talk about vs. the “Tara-isms,” like “sometimes you’re the dog and sometimes you’re the hydrant” or “they already cast the movie Dumb and Dumber and you weren’t in it”

[2006alum]

We’ve been “grading” Kate’s performance and discussing the characteristics of the kind of coach we need to be successful in this era. I suggest you give a listen to players Lauren Betts and Angela Dugilic and Coach Cori Close during UCLA’s post game press conference [link to video] after beating Duke. And contrast the values, mantras, sayings, concepts they talk about vs. the “Tara-isms,” like “sometimes you’re the dog and sometimes you’re the hydrant” or “they already cast the movie Dumb and Dumber and you weren’t in it”

I find this critique a little odd, in two respects. First, Cori's made it to two final fours with some extremely stacked, portal-curated rosters. But I'm not convinced she has what it takes to win a championship, nor, necessarily, that that approach will. And it stands in contrast to all of the top coaches in WBB: I don't think any of Geno, Pat, Tara, Dawn, Mulkey, or Muffet would be considered in that same vein. Dawn is real talk. Geno is real talk. Pat could stare her players down like no one I've seen. Now maybe Gen Z and Gen Alpha demand something different, but Tara has a legion of players who loved her Tara-isms and it got us to numerous conference championships, final fours, and three titles, as recently as 2021.

The other reason I find this critique odd is that if anything, I generally find Kate too nice and too scripted - she has almost nothing negative to say about ANYONE. Not the other teams, not our players, nada. To me, it comes off a little inauthentic - the opposite of "real talk". And I've said it before and I'll say it again: the players really do seem to like her. They chased her down the street at Pitt in a snowball fight, and they actually do seem really happy interacting with her. Again, maybe that's all for the cameras, but if so, our team has a bunch of first class actors, because it definitely stands in contrast to other programs where players had unexpectedly bad seasons and it showed on team morale (like Notre Dame last season, or Tennessee and Iowa State this season).

Again, none of this is an argument for keeping our coaching staff precisely as is, but I don't think that criticism (a) lands well given the success of "real talk" coaches and (b) applies to Kate, who is anything but a real talk coach.

[2006alum]

We’ve been “grading” Kate’s performance and discussing the characteristics of the kind of coach we need to be successful in this era. I suggest you give a listen to players Lauren Betts and Angela Dugilic and Coach Cori Close during UCLA’s post game press conference [link to video] after beating Duke. And contrast the values, mantras, sayings, concepts they talk about vs. the “Tara-isms,” like “sometimes you’re the dog and sometimes you’re the hydrant” or “they already cast the movie Dumb and Dumber and you weren’t in it”

I find this critique a little odd, in two respects. First, Cori's made it to two final fours with some extremely stacked, portal-curated rosters. But I'm not convinced she has what it takes to win a championship, nor, necessarily, that that approach will. And it stands in contrast to all of the top coaches in WBB: I don't think any of Geno, Pat, Tara, Dawn, Mulkey, or Muffet would be considered in that same vein. Dawn is real talk. Geno is real talk. Pat could stare her players down like no one I've seen. Now maybe Gen Z and Gen Alpha demand something different, but Tara has a legion of players who loved her Tara-isms and it got us to numerous conference championships, final fours, and three titles, as recently as 2021.

The other reason I find this critique odd is that if anything, I generally find Kate too nice and too scripted - she has almost nothing negative to say about ANYONE. Not the other teams, not our players, nada. To me, it comes off a little inauthentic - the opposite of "real talk". And I've said it before and I'll say it again: the players really do seem to like her. They chased her down the street at Pitt in a snowball fight, and they actually do seem really happy interacting with her. Again, maybe that's all for the cameras, but if so, our team has a bunch of first class actors, because it definitely stands in contrast to other programs where players had unexpectedly bad seasons and it showed on team morale (like Notre Dame last season, or Tennessee and Iowa State this season).

Again, none of this is an argument for keeping our coaching staff precisely as is, but I don't think that criticism (a) lands well given the success of "real talk" coaches and (b) applies to Kate, who is anything but a real talk coach.

[crackpot]

I find this critique a little odd, in two respects. First, Cori's made it to two final fours with some extremely stacked, portal-curated rosters. 

Extremely! She has had stacked rosters since she arrived in Westwood, which points to her excellent recruiting skills. Yet almost all of her players leave UCLA barely better off than when they arrived. They have always under-performed.

I had a chuckle reading about her post-game Elite Eight interview where she said something like "I didn't have to give a half-time speech, the seniors did." Uh, yeah. The last two years they have been succeeding because of the leadership of the players, not the coach.

[crackpot]

I find this critique a little odd, in two respects. First, Cori's made it to two final fours with some extremely stacked, portal-curated rosters. 

Extremely! She has had stacked rosters since she arrived in Westwood, which points to her excellent recruiting skills. Yet almost all of her players leave UCLA barely better off than when they arrived. They have always under-performed.

I had a chuckle reading about her post-game Elite Eight interview where she said something like "I didn't have to give a half-time speech, the seniors did." Uh, yeah. The last two years they have been succeeding because of the leadership of the players, not the coach.

[BillBradley]

And I've said it before and I'll say it again: the players really do seem to like her. They chased her down the street at Pitt in a snowball fight, and they actually do seem really happy interacting with her. Again, maybe that's all for the cameras, but if so, our team has a bunch of first class actors, because it definitely stands in contrast to other programs where players had unexpectedly bad seasons and it showed on team morale (like Notre Dame last season, or Tennessee and Iowa State this season).

This is a good topic, and here's my take on "player happiness". I think generally our Stanford womens basketball teams are made up of high quality coaches and people. Deep friendships develop each year between players and even their coaches whether the team is winning or not. On this past year's team, mutual admiration and respect were apparent, by how the players and coaches talk at press conferences, on social media, or how they act on camera. As an example from the past, I really don't think Betts despised anyone personally at Stanford, even Tara. If I remember correctly, she travelled on spring break to some tropical location with her Stanford teammates. However, even though the personal relationships with teammates and coaches can be strong, players can still be miserable. That's because of an overriding factor, which is the environment that they have to go to every single day. No one can convince me that our team as a whole was "happy" this year. You could see it on the players faces, but moreso you could see it in how they played. It's not fun to lose as a team, especially if you feel that the team should be playing differently together (e.g. a different style of offense). It really stinks to not play well in your role and to not improve (or perhaps worse, if you think you are in the wrong role or your role is too limited). At some point you start to lose faith in the coaches and the organization, and it's downhill from there. IMO, a lot of that was going on this year. Pretty similar to the working world. You can get along great with your boss and love who you work with, but if the company is not doing well, or you aren't in a great role and you aren't advancing your career, then you just don't enjoy coming to work every day. Day, after day, after day. At some point you conclude it's time to move on, and all the while you really enjoy the people around you. This likely has happened to many on this board.

[BillBradley]

And I've said it before and I'll say it again: the players really do seem to like her. They chased her down the street at Pitt in a snowball fight, and they actually do seem really happy interacting with her. Again, maybe that's all for the cameras, but if so, our team has a bunch of first class actors, because it definitely stands in contrast to other programs where players had unexpectedly bad seasons and it showed on team morale (like Notre Dame last season, or Tennessee and Iowa State this season).

This is a good topic, and here's my take on "player happiness". I think generally our Stanford womens basketball teams are made up of high quality coaches and people. Deep friendships develop each year between players and even their coaches whether the team is winning or not. On this past year's team, mutual admiration and respect were apparent, by how the players and coaches talk at press conferences, on social media, or how they act on camera. As an example from the past, I really don't think Betts despised anyone personally at Stanford, even Tara. If I remember correctly, she travelled on spring break to some tropical location with her Stanford teammates. However, even though the personal relationships with teammates and coaches can be strong, players can still be miserable. That's because of an overriding factor, which is the environment that they have to go to every single day. No one can convince me that our team as a whole was "happy" this year. You could see it on the players faces, but moreso you could see it in how they played. It's not fun to lose as a team, especially if you feel that the team should be playing differently together (e.g. a different style of offense). It really stinks to not play well in your role and to not improve (or perhaps worse, if you think you are in the wrong role or your role is too limited). At some point you start to lose faith in the coaches and the organization, and it's downhill from there. IMO, a lot of that was going on this year. Pretty similar to the working world. You can get along great with your boss and love who you work with, but if the company is not doing well, or you aren't in a great role and you aren't advancing your career, then you just don't enjoy coming to work every day. Day, after day, after day. At some point you conclude it's time to move on, and all the while you really enjoy the people around you. This likely has happened to many on this board.

[stopandpop]

I find this critique a little odd, in two respects. First, Cori's made it to two final fours with some extremely stacked, portal-curated rosters. 

Extremely! She has had stacked rosters since she arrived in Westwood, which points to her excellent recruiting skills. Yet almost all of her players leave UCLA barely better off than when they arrived. They have always under-performed.

I had a chuckle reading about her post-game Elite Eight interview where she said something like "I didn't have to give a half-time speech, the seniors did." Uh, yeah. The last two years they have been succeeding because of the leadership of the players, not the coach.

Whatever anyone wants to say about Coach Close, know this; she has changed and adapted to the new competitiveness of women's college basketball.  Her pre-game and half-time 'emotional' talks with the team have tampered down, and she's spending more time on game strategy and adjustments.  The adjustments she made at halftime (down by 8 against Duke) are an example.  I respectfully disagree that most of her players don't improve all that much between their freshmen and senior years.  Rice and Jaquez are much more 'complete' players than a few years ago.  Coach Close has actually made Angela Dugalic (coming off the bench), a more impactful player, especially in this Tournament and Dugalic bought into the change quite well.

I would not put Cori in the same elite company as Dawn Staley, Geno, or even a Vic Shafer, partly because she has yet to win 'the Big One', but also because her teams, though loaded with talent at all positions, seem to lack the physical and mental toughness you need in today's women's basketball to win it all, but perhaps this time may be different. 

Bottom line for me is- Coach Close has become a better recruiter, strategist and game coach than she was 3-4 years ago.  She's adapted to the rapidly changing game.

[stopandpop]

I find this critique a little odd, in two respects. First, Cori's made it to two final fours with some extremely stacked, portal-curated rosters. 

Extremely! She has had stacked rosters since she arrived in Westwood, which points to her excellent recruiting skills. Yet almost all of her players leave UCLA barely better off than when they arrived. They have always under-performed.

I had a chuckle reading about her post-game Elite Eight interview where she said something like "I didn't have to give a half-time speech, the seniors did." Uh, yeah. The last two years they have been succeeding because of the leadership of the players, not the coach.

Whatever anyone wants to say about Coach Close, know this; she has changed and adapted to the new competitiveness of women's college basketball.  Her pre-game and half-time 'emotional' talks with the team have tampered down, and she's spending more time on game strategy and adjustments.  The adjustments she made at halftime (down by 8 against Duke) are an example.  I respectfully disagree that most of her players don't improve all that much between their freshmen and senior years.  Rice and Jaquez are much more 'complete' players than a few years ago.  Coach Close has actually made Angela Dugalic (coming off the bench), a more impactful player, especially in this Tournament and Dugalic bought into the change quite well.

I would not put Cori in the same elite company as Dawn Staley, Geno, or even a Vic Shafer, partly because she has yet to win 'the Big One', but also because her teams, though loaded with talent at all positions, seem to lack the physical and mental toughness you need in today's women's basketball to win it all, but perhaps this time may be different. 

Bottom line for me is- Coach Close has become a better recruiter, strategist and game coach than she was 3-4 years ago.  She's adapted to the rapidly changing game.

[BostonCard]

1774984011[/url]']
However, even though the personal relationships with teammates and coaches can be strong, players can still be miserable. That's because of an overriding factor, which is the environment that they have to go to every single day. No one can convince me that our team as a whole was "happy" this year. You could see it on the players faces, but moreso you could see it in how they played. It's not fun to lose as a team, especially if you feel that the team should be playing differently together (e.g. a different style of offense). It really stinks to not play well in your role and to not improve (or perhaps worse, if you think you are in the wrong role or your role is too limited). At some point you start to lose faith in the coaches and the organization, and it's downhill from there. IMO, a lot of that was going on this year. Pretty similar to the working world. You can get along great with your boss and love who you work with, but if the company is not doing well, or you aren't in a great role and you aren't advancing your career, then you just don't enjoy coming to work every day. Day, after day, after day. At some point you conclude it's time to move on, and all the while you really enjoy the people around you. This likely has happened to many on this board.

I think the above assumes a lot of facts that may or may not be true and may be a projection of the author’s own feelings.  That’s not to say that the players don’t feel that way.  They very well might.  But this is a bit of a black box where there is a small amount of observable evidence and so we’re trying to impute what we can’t see, and so it is very prone to reflect our own feelings about the situation.  And this goes both ways; 2006alum’s anecdote about the snowball fight might be reflective of a cohesive team having a spontaneous moment, but it could also reflect a brief respite from ongoing drama.  The bottom line is that we have very limited insight into what’s going on behind the scenes, and while the comments I’ve seen that have been directly attributable to the players or their families have been universally positive, I would expect publicly shared comments to be guarded.  All else being equal, winning is a lot more fun than losing, but I don’t know that it is clear that the players have “lost faith in the coaches and the organization”.  We had a very rough stretch where we lost 8 out of 9 games (coincident with losing Lepolo and for a large part Agara), but then we won three straight games to end the regular season that would argue against a downward spiral and that the staff has lost the team.

Is it possible that the staff has lost the team?  Maybe.  But I think we should be clear that it is BillBradley who has lost faith in the coaches and the organization; whether the players have is an open question.

BC

[BostonCard]

1774984011[/url]']
However, even though the personal relationships with teammates and coaches can be strong, players can still be miserable. That's because of an overriding factor, which is the environment that they have to go to every single day. No one can convince me that our team as a whole was "happy" this year. You could see it on the players faces, but moreso you could see it in how they played. It's not fun to lose as a team, especially if you feel that the team should be playing differently together (e.g. a different style of offense). It really stinks to not play well in your role and to not improve (or perhaps worse, if you think you are in the wrong role or your role is too limited). At some point you start to lose faith in the coaches and the organization, and it's downhill from there. IMO, a lot of that was going on this year. Pretty similar to the working world. You can get along great with your boss and love who you work with, but if the company is not doing well, or you aren't in a great role and you aren't advancing your career, then you just don't enjoy coming to work every day. Day, after day, after day. At some point you conclude it's time to move on, and all the while you really enjoy the people around you. This likely has happened to many on this board.

I think the above assumes a lot of facts that may or may not be true and may be a projection of the author’s own feelings.  That’s not to say that the players don’t feel that way.  They very well might.  But this is a bit of a black box where there is a small amount of observable evidence and so we’re trying to impute what we can’t see, and so it is very prone to reflect our own feelings about the situation.  And this goes both ways; 2006alum’s anecdote about the snowball fight might be reflective of a cohesive team having a spontaneous moment, but it could also reflect a brief respite from ongoing drama.  The bottom line is that we have very limited insight into what’s going on behind the scenes, and while the comments I’ve seen that have been directly attributable to the players or their families have been universally positive, I would expect publicly shared comments to be guarded.  All else being equal, winning is a lot more fun than losing, but I don’t know that it is clear that the players have “lost faith in the coaches and the organization”.  We had a very rough stretch where we lost 8 out of 9 games (coincident with losing Lepolo and for a large part Agara), but then we won three straight games to end the regular season that would argue against a downward spiral and that the staff has lost the team.

Is it possible that the staff has lost the team?  Maybe.  But I think we should be clear that it is BillBradley who has lost faith in the coaches and the organization; whether the players have is an open question.

BC

[BillBradley]

1774984011[/url]']
However, even though the personal relationships with teammates and coaches can be strong, players can still be miserable. That's because of an overriding factor, which is the environment that they have to go to every single day. No one can convince me that our team as a whole was "happy" this year. You could see it on the players faces, but moreso you could see it in how they played. It's not fun to lose as a team, especially if you feel that the team should be playing differently together (e.g. a different style of offense). It really stinks to not play well in your role and to not improve (or perhaps worse, if you think you are in the wrong role or your role is too limited). At some point you start to lose faith in the coaches and the organization, and it's downhill from there. IMO, a lot of that was going on this year. Pretty similar to the working world. You can get along great with your boss and love who you work with, but if the company is not doing well, or you aren't in a great role and you aren't advancing your career, then you just don't enjoy coming to work every day. Day, after day, after day. At some point you conclude it's time to move on, and all the while you really enjoy the people around you. This likely has happened to many on this board.

I think the above assumes a lot of facts that may or may not be true and may be a projection of the author’s own feelings.  That’s not to say that the players don’t feel that way.  They very well might.  But this is a bit of a black box where there is a small amount of observable evidence and so we’re trying to impute what we can’t see, and so it is very prone to reflect our own feelings about the situation.  And this goes both ways; 2006alum’s anecdote about the snowball fight might be reflective of a cohesive team having a spontaneous moment, but it could also reflect a brief respite from ongoing drama.  The bottom line is that we have very limited insight into what’s going on behind the scenes, and while the comments I’ve seen that have been directly attributable to the players or their families have been universally positive, I would expect publicly shared comments to be guarded.  All else being equal, winning is a lot more fun than losing, but I don’t know that it is clear that the players have “lost faith in the coaches and the organization”.  We had a very rough stretch where we lost 8 out of 9 games (coincident with losing Lepolo and for a large part Agara), but then we won three straight games to end the regular season that would argue against a downward spiral and that the staff has lost the team.

Is it possible that the staff has lost the team?  Maybe.  But I think we should be clear that it is BillBradley who has lost faith in the coaches and the organization; whether the players have is an open question.

BC

Oh, for sure. I have 100% lost faith in the coaching staff. And FWIW, just because you say I have limited insight doesn't mean that I can't be correct about the players.

[BillBradley]

1774984011[/url]']
However, even though the personal relationships with teammates and coaches can be strong, players can still be miserable. That's because of an overriding factor, which is the environment that they have to go to every single day. No one can convince me that our team as a whole was "happy" this year. You could see it on the players faces, but moreso you could see it in how they played. It's not fun to lose as a team, especially if you feel that the team should be playing differently together (e.g. a different style of offense). It really stinks to not play well in your role and to not improve (or perhaps worse, if you think you are in the wrong role or your role is too limited). At some point you start to lose faith in the coaches and the organization, and it's downhill from there. IMO, a lot of that was going on this year. Pretty similar to the working world. You can get along great with your boss and love who you work with, but if the company is not doing well, or you aren't in a great role and you aren't advancing your career, then you just don't enjoy coming to work every day. Day, after day, after day. At some point you conclude it's time to move on, and all the while you really enjoy the people around you. This likely has happened to many on this board.

I think the above assumes a lot of facts that may or may not be true and may be a projection of the author’s own feelings.  That’s not to say that the players don’t feel that way.  They very well might.  But this is a bit of a black box where there is a small amount of observable evidence and so we’re trying to impute what we can’t see, and so it is very prone to reflect our own feelings about the situation.  And this goes both ways; 2006alum’s anecdote about the snowball fight might be reflective of a cohesive team having a spontaneous moment, but it could also reflect a brief respite from ongoing drama.  The bottom line is that we have very limited insight into what’s going on behind the scenes, and while the comments I’ve seen that have been directly attributable to the players or their families have been universally positive, I would expect publicly shared comments to be guarded.  All else being equal, winning is a lot more fun than losing, but I don’t know that it is clear that the players have “lost faith in the coaches and the organization”.  We had a very rough stretch where we lost 8 out of 9 games (coincident with losing Lepolo and for a large part Agara), but then we won three straight games to end the regular season that would argue against a downward spiral and that the staff has lost the team.

Is it possible that the staff has lost the team?  Maybe.  But I think we should be clear that it is BillBradley who has lost faith in the coaches and the organization; whether the players have is an open question.

BC

Oh, for sure. I have 100% lost faith in the coaching staff. And FWIW, just because you say I have limited insight doesn't mean that I can't be correct about the players.

[BostonCard]

Yes, I acknowledge that you may be right.  It is certainly possible (maybe even likely) that the players have lost faith; I just don’t want to conflate your certain lack of faith with certainty that the players lack faith.

BC

[BostonCard]

Yes, I acknowledge that you may be right.  It is certainly possible (maybe even likely) that the players have lost faith; I just don’t want to conflate your certain lack of faith with certainty that the players lack faith.

BC