[NDIrish]

As I reported on TOS years ago, I conducted an informal survey of NFL team video directors whom I ran into while shooting games. To a man they said that they would have come down from a perch above the practice field in high wind. They also said that the NFL coaches would have either ordered them down or concurred with their decision.

Kelly and Swarbrick were at fault and should have faced charges. Maybe so all the assistant coaches. Declan’s family supported the school. Big questions re a possible payoff. It is obvious what institution runs the City of South Bend.

What’s Oliver Stone waiting for?

im breaking my own rule here by going beyond my own thread but i just can't help myself here.  I am fine with people not liking Kelly, you think he is a giant a$$ who can't coach, etc.  I don't care. Make fun of him for yelling on the sidelines early in his career, whatever.  I am personally to the point that i think we may be getting near a switch, not because he can't coach, but it maybe mutually beneficially to both ND and Kelly for a change, a fresh breath.  I would expect him to move on and do very well.  Ultimately, he saved ND football, things were very very bad when he took over, he brought them back to being a relevant program, upgraded the stadium, has put players in the NFL, etc. 

But the 2 issues that i just can't control myself on is the death of Declan Sullivan and Lizzy Seeberg.  Both of these are absolutely terrible stories.  But people shouldn't use them to attack Kelly.  First with Lizzy,  can i see the story she told as being true, absolutely. However, i spoke to an ND police officer friend and he told me there was no proof at all that anything had happened.  Obviously Lizzy was a mentally ill girl and i feel sympathy for her and her family.  The stories that Kelly and Co. were covering up and protecting Prince Shembo, i just don't believe.  I think it was a situation where had their been proof, Kelly would have dealt with it.  But he could have faced lawsuits coming the other way had he dismissed a kid without any proof.  So what do you do?  Say Prince SHembo is your kid.  A girl accuses him, do you instantly find him guilty, or are you going demand that someone prove it.  The ND police did investigate it, they are state police, and honestly i think some of them enjoy busting ND football players more then regular players.  I think kelly was in a no win.  You kick a kid off with no proof, or you keep a kid on not knowing if it true or not.  Heck i could show up tomorrow and say David Shaw assaulted me. Do you fire him immediately?   A lot of the information being spread around just is not true, so please don't get too caught up in that info.  I could see a situation where they were messing around at a party, things got out of hand (could have been either one pushing it) and that was that.  I have 0 sympathy for any person who sexually assaults another person, but there was no history at the time of this behavior by Shembo and no evidence he did it.  He said she came on to him, she said he came on to her.  What can you do in that situation?  Now, lastly on this, do i also believe that higher ups at the university could have tried and squashed this story once she had already committed suicide to try and "protect" the university - i absolutely believe there are people at the top who think that way, but thats not Kelly.  The thing is, ND is not like some of the other universities, Kelly is not the king of the land.  He does not call the shots, he runs the football team and that is it.   Trust me, he does not get his way more times then he does.   He is constantly overruled on decisions involving coaches and activities, etc.

Secondly, Declan Sullivan, a very tragic story.  I full believe the University is fully responsible for not having better safety procedures and management in place to prevent an accident like this from happening - but its not Kelly's fault.  Unless you can show me where he went over to that kid on that day and said hey i know its windy, get up there, then its not on him.  Because once again, the university runs everything.  A place ran like this, should have a safety office that overseas all of their employees and their actions every day.  Also, and this is more significant, his family, has continued to support the university and has told people to stop using their sons death in their complaints about the university.  They continued to show up to football games THAT YEAR, accepted the responsibility of the university, did not take any information on this public and have never once blamed Kelly, so how can you?   And don't give me the payout crap.  There is no amount of money, and i am not a wealthy man, that could ever make me support a man if i thought he was responsible for the death of my son.  Their other child applied to the university after this event.  Numerous times have preached against this kind of behavior.  So once again, ND responsible, yes, they have accepted it and made changed to prevent it.

if you want to shame the university thats fine, but not kelly.  There is potential that they did not do their due diligence in one story and they were not prepared in the other.  Without specific proof kelly was involved in either one, i don't hang that on him.  There are other things you can hate about him, but not these.  Alot of fake stories out there about both these stories.

Sorry for the rant... i don't agree with everything kelly said in his presser.  I think, as he often does, did not mean it how it sounded though.  If he would have stopped at both universities recruit the same kind of kid, that would have been fine, but he did take it too far after that.  I believe the coast to coast comment was more in line with our schedule and recruiting.

[NDIrish]

As I reported on TOS years ago, I conducted an informal survey of NFL team video directors whom I ran into while shooting games. To a man they said that they would have come down from a perch above the practice field in high wind. They also said that the NFL coaches would have either ordered them down or concurred with their decision.

Kelly and Swarbrick were at fault and should have faced charges. Maybe so all the assistant coaches. Declan’s family supported the school. Big questions re a possible payoff. It is obvious what institution runs the City of South Bend.

What’s Oliver Stone waiting for?

im breaking my own rule here by going beyond my own thread but i just can't help myself here.  I am fine with people not liking Kelly, you think he is a giant a$$ who can't coach, etc.  I don't care. Make fun of him for yelling on the sidelines early in his career, whatever.  I am personally to the point that i think we may be getting near a switch, not because he can't coach, but it maybe mutually beneficially to both ND and Kelly for a change, a fresh breath.  I would expect him to move on and do very well.  Ultimately, he saved ND football, things were very very bad when he took over, he brought them back to being a relevant program, upgraded the stadium, has put players in the NFL, etc. 

But the 2 issues that i just can't control myself on is the death of Declan Sullivan and Lizzy Seeberg.  Both of these are absolutely terrible stories.  But people shouldn't use them to attack Kelly.  First with Lizzy,  can i see the story she told as being true, absolutely. However, i spoke to an ND police officer friend and he told me there was no proof at all that anything had happened.  Obviously Lizzy was a mentally ill girl and i feel sympathy for her and her family.  The stories that Kelly and Co. were covering up and protecting Prince Shembo, i just don't believe.  I think it was a situation where had their been proof, Kelly would have dealt with it.  But he could have faced lawsuits coming the other way had he dismissed a kid without any proof.  So what do you do?  Say Prince SHembo is your kid.  A girl accuses him, do you instantly find him guilty, or are you going demand that someone prove it.  The ND police did investigate it, they are state police, and honestly i think some of them enjoy busting ND football players more then regular players.  I think kelly was in a no win.  You kick a kid off with no proof, or you keep a kid on not knowing if it true or not.  Heck i could show up tomorrow and say David Shaw assaulted me. Do you fire him immediately?   A lot of the information being spread around just is not true, so please don't get too caught up in that info.  I could see a situation where they were messing around at a party, things got out of hand (could have been either one pushing it) and that was that.  I have 0 sympathy for any person who sexually assaults another person, but there was no history at the time of this behavior by Shembo and no evidence he did it.  He said she came on to him, she said he came on to her.  What can you do in that situation?  Now, lastly on this, do i also believe that higher ups at the university could have tried and squashed this story once she had already committed suicide to try and "protect" the university - i absolutely believe there are people at the top who think that way, but thats not Kelly.  The thing is, ND is not like some of the other universities, Kelly is not the king of the land.  He does not call the shots, he runs the football team and that is it.   Trust me, he does not get his way more times then he does.   He is constantly overruled on decisions involving coaches and activities, etc.

Secondly, Declan Sullivan, a very tragic story.  I full believe the University is fully responsible for not having better safety procedures and management in place to prevent an accident like this from happening - but its not Kelly's fault.  Unless you can show me where he went over to that kid on that day and said hey i know its windy, get up there, then its not on him.  Because once again, the university runs everything.  A place ran like this, should have a safety office that overseas all of their employees and their actions every day.  Also, and this is more significant, his family, has continued to support the university and has told people to stop using their sons death in their complaints about the university.  They continued to show up to football games THAT YEAR, accepted the responsibility of the university, did not take any information on this public and have never once blamed Kelly, so how can you?   And don't give me the payout crap.  There is no amount of money, and i am not a wealthy man, that could ever make me support a man if i thought he was responsible for the death of my son.  Their other child applied to the university after this event.  Numerous times have preached against this kind of behavior.  So once again, ND responsible, yes, they have accepted it and made changed to prevent it.

if you want to shame the university thats fine, but not kelly.  There is potential that they did not do their due diligence in one story and they were not prepared in the other.  Without specific proof kelly was involved in either one, i don't hang that on him.  There are other things you can hate about him, but not these.  Alot of fake stories out there about both these stories.

Sorry for the rant... i don't agree with everything kelly said in his presser.  I think, as he often does, did not mean it how it sounded though.  If he would have stopped at both universities recruit the same kind of kid, that would have been fine, but he did take it too far after that.  I believe the coast to coast comment was more in line with our schedule and recruiting.