[teejers1]

Things can really devolve quickly on here. The best science should win the day but the person who argued that there was an offset with the protesters in having suppressed others from going out doesn't seem to me to be strengthening his or her argument. That was what I was referring to with cherry picking and I think it still stands.

In this largely echo-chamber board, I'd be pleased if folks' positions on policies responding to Covid were held irrespective of the WH occupant.  Now, maybe that's the case; however, so many folks here are so virulently anti-Trump that it's hard to fully credit their "we need to lock down everything; stopping spread and saving lives, no matter the cost, is paramount; etc." because everyone knows the virtue of a cratered economy for purposes of the November elections.  Fortunately, come November, we'll get to test this out and see if folks' views on pandemic responses remain consistent with President Biden.  [And it's also fortunate that there will be a change at 1600 Pennsylvania; because if not, I seriously would have been concerned about the well-being of many posters on this site].

I can say without reservation that my views have not altered since the outbreak began (nor do I expect them to change), in terms of what should drive policy:  hospital capacity.  And that information should be 'front and center' on every story about surges here, and an uptick in cases there; indeed, it should be trumpeted on a daily basis in every county in the country.  And there should be full transparency about what exactly is driving any capacity issues - seen or anticipated - including the percentage of Covid patients occupying regular beds, ICU beds, using ventilators, etc.  That way you can see trends; tie them with positive testing fluctuations; and make sound policies based on data.    

And LTCF data should also be reported and incorporated into the capacity data for obvious reasons, including that outbreaks there are like "shooting fish in a barrel," so to speak, and thus they are not representative of society at large.    

I know I'm in the minority here, but I'm not THAT concerned about an increase in reported cases, per se.  That is going to happen with relaxation of SiP and with increased testing.  Certainly, fewer cases is better all things being equal.  Where increased cases really raise concerns is when it is accompanied by the hospital capacity issues highlighted above.  And I get that there is a time-lag, but that's why it's so important to be tracking this stuff up front, from the outset.   I just am not sure we're seeing that clearly, even here in SCC where the dashboard is (or at least was) good on reporting capacity.

BTW, vis a vis protesters and Covid, I've never been convinced about outdoor transmission generally; thus, I just put protests in the bucket with all other outdoor activities - not a brobdingnagian deal.  Are there certain circumstances where outdoor activities provide sufficient risk that it demands regulation?  Yeah, I suppose, but it's hard to tick those off right now.  Nor surprisingly, I find Newsom's "re-shutdown of the beaches" directive a mistake (and I hope it wasn't driven by some personal need to "show people who is in charge").

Lastly, the "valiant effort" to keep politics off the Covid board is somewhat amusing to behold.  Every poster's position here is informed by their life experiences and situations, and way more often than not, that dictates their "views on the science" of the pandemic (and their politics.  I suspect most folks have been able to keep their jobs, or otherwise are not concerned about how a tanking economy affects their personal finances and the health and well being of their families.  That's great - everyone should be so fortunate.  But that is not the case, particularly outside this board . . . which is why I think we tend to have an echo chamber effect in here when it comes to the best policies to follow. 

Lastly, lastly . . . it appears that certain posters scan the Internet for instances of people not complying with smart distancing policies (including using masks) and use that as an indictment of Americans at large.  The video of the guy at the Walmart (or some store) bullying his way past the greeter is the most recent example.  The take of the poster was, IIRC, "this guy represents America and why we have failed in dealing with the pandemic."  That's certainly one take.  But I was struck by (well, after thinking what a douchebag the guy was) (a) the fact that everyone else in the clip was wearing a mask, (b) that the guy filming the incident managed to keep good humor about him while telling the guy he has to wear a mask like everyone else, and © the fact that the greeter was tenacious enough to stick with the violator and halt his progress into the store (he is the one to be commended here).  Are all Americans following smart distancing policies?  No.  But the overwhelming majority are, even in the clips used to denigrate Americans as an outlaw bunch.

P.S.  Goose, keep up the good fight on test and track/trace.  You're right about its importance and need for boots on the ground (especially in absence of use of phone apps).  I fear the horse has left the proverbial barn, but as BC has noted; every little bit of containment helps, so counties should not just throw in the towel.

[teejers1]

Things can really devolve quickly on here. The best science should win the day but the person who argued that there was an offset with the protesters in having suppressed others from going out doesn't seem to me to be strengthening his or her argument. That was what I was referring to with cherry picking and I think it still stands.

In this largely echo-chamber board, I'd be pleased if folks' positions on policies responding to Covid were held irrespective of the WH occupant.  Now, maybe that's the case; however, so many folks here are so virulently anti-Trump that it's hard to fully credit their "we need to lock down everything; stopping spread and saving lives, no matter the cost, is paramount; etc." because everyone knows the virtue of a cratered economy for purposes of the November elections.  Fortunately, come November, we'll get to test this out and see if folks' views on pandemic responses remain consistent with President Biden.  [And it's also fortunate that there will be a change at 1600 Pennsylvania; because if not, I seriously would have been concerned about the well-being of many posters on this site].

I can say without reservation that my views have not altered since the outbreak began (nor do I expect them to change), in terms of what should drive policy:  hospital capacity.  And that information should be 'front and center' on every story about surges here, and an uptick in cases there; indeed, it should be trumpeted on a daily basis in every county in the country.  And there should be full transparency about what exactly is driving any capacity issues - seen or anticipated - including the percentage of Covid patients occupying regular beds, ICU beds, using ventilators, etc.  That way you can see trends; tie them with positive testing fluctuations; and make sound policies based on data.    

And LTCF data should also be reported and incorporated into the capacity data for obvious reasons, including that outbreaks there are like "shooting fish in a barrel," so to speak, and thus they are not representative of society at large.    

I know I'm in the minority here, but I'm not THAT concerned about an increase in reported cases, per se.  That is going to happen with relaxation of SiP and with increased testing.  Certainly, fewer cases is better all things being equal.  Where increased cases really raise concerns is when it is accompanied by the hospital capacity issues highlighted above.  And I get that there is a time-lag, but that's why it's so important to be tracking this stuff up front, from the outset.   I just am not sure we're seeing that clearly, even here in SCC where the dashboard is (or at least was) good on reporting capacity.

BTW, vis a vis protesters and Covid, I've never been convinced about outdoor transmission generally; thus, I just put protests in the bucket with all other outdoor activities - not a brobdingnagian deal.  Are there certain circumstances where outdoor activities provide sufficient risk that it demands regulation?  Yeah, I suppose, but it's hard to tick those off right now.  Nor surprisingly, I find Newsom's "re-shutdown of the beaches" directive a mistake (and I hope it wasn't driven by some personal need to "show people who is in charge").

Lastly, the "valiant effort" to keep politics off the Covid board is somewhat amusing to behold.  Every poster's position here is informed by their life experiences and situations, and way more often than not, that dictates their "views on the science" of the pandemic (and their politics.  I suspect most folks have been able to keep their jobs, or otherwise are not concerned about how a tanking economy affects their personal finances and the health and well being of their families.  That's great - everyone should be so fortunate.  But that is not the case, particularly outside this board . . . which is why I think we tend to have an echo chamber effect in here when it comes to the best policies to follow. 

Lastly, lastly . . . it appears that certain posters scan the Internet for instances of people not complying with smart distancing policies (including using masks) and use that as an indictment of Americans at large.  The video of the guy at the Walmart (or some store) bullying his way past the greeter is the most recent example.  The take of the poster was, IIRC, "this guy represents America and why we have failed in dealing with the pandemic."  That's certainly one take.  But I was struck by (well, after thinking what a douchebag the guy was) (a) the fact that everyone else in the clip was wearing a mask, (b) that the guy filming the incident managed to keep good humor about him while telling the guy he has to wear a mask like everyone else, and © the fact that the greeter was tenacious enough to stick with the violator and halt his progress into the store (he is the one to be commended here).  Are all Americans following smart distancing policies?  No.  But the overwhelming majority are, even in the clips used to denigrate Americans as an outlaw bunch.

P.S.  Goose, keep up the good fight on test and track/trace.  You're right about its importance and need for boots on the ground (especially in absence of use of phone apps).  I fear the horse has left the proverbial barn, but as BC has noted; every little bit of containment helps, so counties should not just throw in the towel.