[Goose]

That's not quite true.   The EU efforts worked for ~5 months.   And they used that time to get ready for the second wave.   Their leaders were very clear that the second wave might be difficult, and now as they move to a new set of lockdowns the citizens do not seem shocked.

I have to disagree with you there. The friends I have in Italy aren't shocked, they are livid. This all was sold to them as a "solution", it turns out not to be, and their economy, which wasn't robust to being with, is now going to take another big hit. They all have different theories on exactly which reopening actions were the culprits, but they are all sure the government is to blame, as well as "other people".

The EU nations got the cases down in an attempt to prioritize school openings, and ultimately the virus is just too efficient.   However, if you look at the EU leader messaging over the last 5 months, they were not generally saying the battle is over or things of that type.

Again, I have to disagree somewhat. The EU leader messaging has not been saying the battle was over, but the message to the public was that they were winning and all was well. As an example, this August, since most international travel was impossible, the Italian government subsidized in country vacations for the populace. This caused much travel that many are blaming for spreading disease (at low levels) around the country and eventually overwhelming the track and trace system. Not sure I can say this is the real "cause", but several of my friends  think it was.

The USA prioritized bars, restaurants, nail salons, sports, AND schools, so it seems logical that the virus will prevail here too in time.

To a degree, so did Europe. Recall that the start of this second wave in Spain was blamed on tourists in bars. In Italy, many are saying the fact the authorities re-opened the "discos" was a major contributor to the current situation. Clearly, bars and other places where many people crowd together, talk loudly (because of the music/background noise), probably don't wear masks, and certainly are attempting the opposite of social distancing are not good things to open. Yet, in both the EU and the US, they often are.

IMHO we are a few weeks behind the European curve because the fall weather is a bit better in the USA.   Our current status certainly isn't because the USA citizens are doing enough to keep COVID in check for the winter. 



The USA citizens and USA government officials here don't really seem ready for this next wave.

We aren't, I totally agree. I also think Europe isn't ready either. The populace for sure didn't expect this, and in many places it isn't going down well.

The idea that America and Americans are somehow too weak to do what is required feels wrong and counter to our country's history.   I understand the many reasons why POTUS45 doesn't want to deliver tough love and epic struggle messages BEFORE an election, but I am hopeful those that understand the scope of the pending challenge will step up and say something after the election. 




Hopeful some in government will tap into that spirit of American exceptionalism.  That's my hope anyway since COVID19 will crush our health care system and our health care workers if we continue nationally to embrace the fatalistic vibe.

While I don't disagree with the idea that we in the USA can do "what is required", I am not sure at this point that anyone knows what that is. If you try to tell people we need to be "locked down" until we have a widely distributed pretty good vaccine, it is going to be a very hard sell. That is probably at least a year away and maybe more. We have tried to get by with a minimal lockdown and a re-opening towards normal. That hasn't worked here for lots of reasons, but the fact it really hasn't worked in Europe either (and they are returning to lockdowns) make it very unclear what can be re-opened safely and how to do so.

If the plan is "empirically try various approaches to re-opening until we find out what actually is possible and what isn't, given public behavior", OK, that is a plan. I think that is where we are right now. I don't think many of us like it. I think this is true no matter who the POTUS is, unfortunately.

[Goose]

That's not quite true.   The EU efforts worked for ~5 months.   And they used that time to get ready for the second wave.   Their leaders were very clear that the second wave might be difficult, and now as they move to a new set of lockdowns the citizens do not seem shocked.

I have to disagree with you there. The friends I have in Italy aren't shocked, they are livid. This all was sold to them as a "solution", it turns out not to be, and their economy, which wasn't robust to being with, is now going to take another big hit. They all have different theories on exactly which reopening actions were the culprits, but they are all sure the government is to blame, as well as "other people".

The EU nations got the cases down in an attempt to prioritize school openings, and ultimately the virus is just too efficient.   However, if you look at the EU leader messaging over the last 5 months, they were not generally saying the battle is over or things of that type.

Again, I have to disagree somewhat. The EU leader messaging has not been saying the battle was over, but the message to the public was that they were winning and all was well. As an example, this August, since most international travel was impossible, the Italian government subsidized in country vacations for the populace. This caused much travel that many are blaming for spreading disease (at low levels) around the country and eventually overwhelming the track and trace system. Not sure I can say this is the real "cause", but several of my friends  think it was.

The USA prioritized bars, restaurants, nail salons, sports, AND schools, so it seems logical that the virus will prevail here too in time.

To a degree, so did Europe. Recall that the start of this second wave in Spain was blamed on tourists in bars. In Italy, many are saying the fact the authorities re-opened the "discos" was a major contributor to the current situation. Clearly, bars and other places where many people crowd together, talk loudly (because of the music/background noise), probably don't wear masks, and certainly are attempting the opposite of social distancing are not good things to open. Yet, in both the EU and the US, they often are.

IMHO we are a few weeks behind the European curve because the fall weather is a bit better in the USA.   Our current status certainly isn't because the USA citizens are doing enough to keep COVID in check for the winter. 



The USA citizens and USA government officials here don't really seem ready for this next wave.

We aren't, I totally agree. I also think Europe isn't ready either. The populace for sure didn't expect this, and in many places it isn't going down well.

The idea that America and Americans are somehow too weak to do what is required feels wrong and counter to our country's history.   I understand the many reasons why POTUS45 doesn't want to deliver tough love and epic struggle messages BEFORE an election, but I am hopeful those that understand the scope of the pending challenge will step up and say something after the election. 




Hopeful some in government will tap into that spirit of American exceptionalism.  That's my hope anyway since COVID19 will crush our health care system and our health care workers if we continue nationally to embrace the fatalistic vibe.

While I don't disagree with the idea that we in the USA can do "what is required", I am not sure at this point that anyone knows what that is. If you try to tell people we need to be "locked down" until we have a widely distributed pretty good vaccine, it is going to be a very hard sell. That is probably at least a year away and maybe more. We have tried to get by with a minimal lockdown and a re-opening towards normal. That hasn't worked here for lots of reasons, but the fact it really hasn't worked in Europe either (and they are returning to lockdowns) make it very unclear what can be re-opened safely and how to do so.

If the plan is "empirically try various approaches to re-opening until we find out what actually is possible and what isn't, given public behavior", OK, that is a plan. I think that is where we are right now. I don't think many of us like it. I think this is true no matter who the POTUS is, unfortunately.