[Mick]

- While I wouldn't wish a pandemic on anyone -- obviously -- keep in mind that without a once-in-a-century pandemic, Trump likely wins in a landslide.

I never understand the Trump worship and adulation. I get that some people have an incentive to want lower taxes or fewer regulations for their business, or put up with him — a thrice married, lying, mysoginist and 6 times bankrupt businessman — for judges who will enforce their religious views on the entire population, but those people view Trump as a means to an ends. I can never understand how people actually look at him and adore him. The only explanation I can think of is that Trump is very effective at psychological control and brainwashing. I read somewhere that he has studied hypnosis techniques and uses them in business and media.

Very few adore or worship him.  Most despise him personally.  Would you like an NYC-based real estate billionaire, under any circumstances?  I wouldn't.  And it isn't brainwashing or mind control, that's nonsensical.  My sense is that he has just three skills, but they're three pretty important skills:

1) An overwhelming focus on the economy.  And it isn't just the Dow, and he never really communicated the fact that a rising Dow is good for all Americans based upon the pullthrough.  If your company is doing well, they keep people employed, make capital investments, buy more inventory, use more services, etc.  Plenty of people on the left framed it as a rich person thing, when in point of fact it's an everyone thing.  But pre-pandemic, his numbers were ridiculously good, as in best-in-history good for unemployment across all subcategories; women, African Americans, Latinx, etc.  And the entrepreneurial starts were similarly off the charts.  So...yes, there are plenty of single-issue voters, but it isn't abortion or judges, it's the economy, stupid...as Bill Clinton so adroitly understood.

2) More importantly, he understands where and how the Left in general and the Democrats in particular abandoned their bases.  The Dems do what they've always done and what they should do: focus on the worst-off decile in the country and support the next decile.  That leaves deciles 6, 7 and 8 essentially abandoned.  And it doesn't help when Dems crow that they're going to put a whole lot of (fill in the blank blue collar jobs) out of work, or that they're going to eliminate fracking, or that they want to fund health care for 1/4th of the country for free.

3) Finally, as GR points out, the great divide in this country isn't by race or gender or religion or sexual preference.  It's class.  And the Elites across the board refuse to frame it as such.  Why?  Because they fall into the upper class and are therefore exempt from the coveted victim status.  That's the Republican Elite (who despise Trump, yet want and need blue collar voters), the Democrat Elite, the Media Elite, the Establishment Elite, the Rich Elite, the Medical Elite...all the Elites.  Big Media wants to support the little guy and shade the rich guy--admirable.  But they themselves are Elite and have a collective tin ear with respect to much of the plights across America.  They don't care.  So no one gives a sxxt when another 751,000 are thrown out of work -- that's 60 million+ since March if you're counting.  Trump, for his myriad warts and foibles understands the average person in ways that the Elites don't understand.

Can't wait to have Biden roll back the tax cuts and take away $2,000 on average from American families.  Should be great fun.

---

- While I wouldn't wish a pandemic on anyone -- obviously -- keep in mind that without a once-in-a-century pandemic, Trump likely wins in a landslide.

I never understand the Trump worship and adulation. I get that some people have an incentive to want lower taxes or fewer regulations for their business, or put up with him — a thrice married, lying, mysoginist and 6 times bankrupt businessman — for judges who will enforce their religious views on the entire population, but those people view Trump as a means to an ends. I can never understand how people actually look at him and adore him. The only explanation I can think of is that Trump is very effective at psychological control and brainwashing. I read somewhere that he has studied hypnosis techniques and uses them in business and media.

A lot of people in America who think that the two major parties have ignored them and that their government simply doesn't work for them have heard Trump speak their language and vow to give them a voice they have never had before.  I've always been an admirer of Obama, but keep in mind that under his watch, Wall Street was bailed out while millions of Americans were foreclosed upon.  Under his nose, tens of thousands of Americans were dying from opioid overdose seemingly without anyone doing anything about it.  Now, I understand that these problems are complex, and I think Trump's response to COVID suggest he would have been no better at handling the opioid epidemic (with overdose deaths flat since his inauguration, which, to be fair, is better than the previous trend).

Secondly, to us (mostly well educated, white collar workers), the economy really didn't change all that much when Trump became president.  The trend that started in the aftermath of the financial crisis more or less continued linearly.  For people at the lower end of the income spectrum, making close to minimum wage, there actually was a step-change starting in around 2018.  At that point, the labor market finally became tight, and employers were forced to start increasing wages.  I don't think you can attribute that to Trump, but its not like the Obama administration (somewhat forced by the Republican congress) and the fed at the time, committed some own goals on the economy.  Trump was right (policy-wise) to hound the fed to keep interest rates low.  Trump was right to push fiscal stimulus (even though I disagree with how he did it).

All that being said, I think progressives need to be better at listening to what the people they purport to represent want, rather than presuming to know better, or, at the very least, explain why their policy preferences are better for average Americans instead of presuming that this is somehow self-evident and sneering at them for not somehow managing to understand by magic.

I'll give two examples, both related to Latino voters... support them.

I would suggest more listening and less sneering.

BC

+1.  Perfectly said.

---

I doubt Trump would have won in a landslide. Besides, Trump is really good at finding things to screw up. He likely would have found something else.

Why?  He has nearly 69 million votes, very close to Biden's.  And for the last six months, the pandemic has blown through this country, all on his watch, he's been blamed for all of it, and the Media Elite, Medical Elite and Left Elite -- and a fair portion of the Right Elite -- has blamed him personally and exclusively for it.  They've hammered on it from Day One, and correctly saw it as a wedge against Trump.

Personally, if the economy had continued roaring, I think Trump would have won by 5 mm to 10 mm votes and would have had 400+ electoral votes.  Not California, not New York, not Massachusetts; not those bastions of elitism -- but most of the other states.

[Mick]

- While I wouldn't wish a pandemic on anyone -- obviously -- keep in mind that without a once-in-a-century pandemic, Trump likely wins in a landslide.

I never understand the Trump worship and adulation. I get that some people have an incentive to want lower taxes or fewer regulations for their business, or put up with him — a thrice married, lying, mysoginist and 6 times bankrupt businessman — for judges who will enforce their religious views on the entire population, but those people view Trump as a means to an ends. I can never understand how people actually look at him and adore him. The only explanation I can think of is that Trump is very effective at psychological control and brainwashing. I read somewhere that he has studied hypnosis techniques and uses them in business and media.

Very few adore or worship him.  Most despise him personally.  Would you like an NYC-based real estate billionaire, under any circumstances?  I wouldn't.  And it isn't brainwashing or mind control, that's nonsensical.  My sense is that he has just three skills, but they're three pretty important skills:

1) An overwhelming focus on the economy.  And it isn't just the Dow, and he never really communicated the fact that a rising Dow is good for all Americans based upon the pullthrough.  If your company is doing well, they keep people employed, make capital investments, buy more inventory, use more services, etc.  Plenty of people on the left framed it as a rich person thing, when in point of fact it's an everyone thing.  But pre-pandemic, his numbers were ridiculously good, as in best-in-history good for unemployment across all subcategories; women, African Americans, Latinx, etc.  And the entrepreneurial starts were similarly off the charts.  So...yes, there are plenty of single-issue voters, but it isn't abortion or judges, it's the economy, stupid...as Bill Clinton so adroitly understood.

2) More importantly, he understands where and how the Left in general and the Democrats in particular abandoned their bases.  The Dems do what they've always done and what they should do: focus on the worst-off decile in the country and support the next decile.  That leaves deciles 6, 7 and 8 essentially abandoned.  And it doesn't help when Dems crow that they're going to put a whole lot of (fill in the blank blue collar jobs) out of work, or that they're going to eliminate fracking, or that they want to fund health care for 1/4th of the country for free.

3) Finally, as GR points out, the great divide in this country isn't by race or gender or religion or sexual preference.  It's class.  And the Elites across the board refuse to frame it as such.  Why?  Because they fall into the upper class and are therefore exempt from the coveted victim status.  That's the Republican Elite (who despise Trump, yet want and need blue collar voters), the Democrat Elite, the Media Elite, the Establishment Elite, the Rich Elite, the Medical Elite...all the Elites.  Big Media wants to support the little guy and shade the rich guy--admirable.  But they themselves are Elite and have a collective tin ear with respect to much of the plights across America.  They don't care.  So no one gives a sxxt when another 751,000 are thrown out of work -- that's 60 million+ since March if you're counting.  Trump, for his myriad warts and foibles understands the average person in ways that the Elites don't understand.

Can't wait to have Biden roll back the tax cuts and take away $2,000 on average from American families.  Should be great fun.

---

- While I wouldn't wish a pandemic on anyone -- obviously -- keep in mind that without a once-in-a-century pandemic, Trump likely wins in a landslide.

I never understand the Trump worship and adulation. I get that some people have an incentive to want lower taxes or fewer regulations for their business, or put up with him — a thrice married, lying, mysoginist and 6 times bankrupt businessman — for judges who will enforce their religious views on the entire population, but those people view Trump as a means to an ends. I can never understand how people actually look at him and adore him. The only explanation I can think of is that Trump is very effective at psychological control and brainwashing. I read somewhere that he has studied hypnosis techniques and uses them in business and media.

A lot of people in America who think that the two major parties have ignored them and that their government simply doesn't work for them have heard Trump speak their language and vow to give them a voice they have never had before.  I've always been an admirer of Obama, but keep in mind that under his watch, Wall Street was bailed out while millions of Americans were foreclosed upon.  Under his nose, tens of thousands of Americans were dying from opioid overdose seemingly without anyone doing anything about it.  Now, I understand that these problems are complex, and I think Trump's response to COVID suggest he would have been no better at handling the opioid epidemic (with overdose deaths flat since his inauguration, which, to be fair, is better than the previous trend).

Secondly, to us (mostly well educated, white collar workers), the economy really didn't change all that much when Trump became president.  The trend that started in the aftermath of the financial crisis more or less continued linearly.  For people at the lower end of the income spectrum, making close to minimum wage, there actually was a step-change starting in around 2018.  At that point, the labor market finally became tight, and employers were forced to start increasing wages.  I don't think you can attribute that to Trump, but its not like the Obama administration (somewhat forced by the Republican congress) and the fed at the time, committed some own goals on the economy.  Trump was right (policy-wise) to hound the fed to keep interest rates low.  Trump was right to push fiscal stimulus (even though I disagree with how he did it).

All that being said, I think progressives need to be better at listening to what the people they purport to represent want, rather than presuming to know better, or, at the very least, explain why their policy preferences are better for average Americans instead of presuming that this is somehow self-evident and sneering at them for not somehow managing to understand by magic.

I'll give two examples, both related to Latino voters... support them.

I would suggest more listening and less sneering.

BC

+1.  Perfectly said.

---

I doubt Trump would have won in a landslide. Besides, Trump is really good at finding things to screw up. He likely would have found something else.

Why?  He has nearly 69 million votes, very close to Biden's.  And for the last six months, the pandemic has blown through this country, all on his watch, he's been blamed for all of it, and the Media Elite, Medical Elite and Left Elite -- and a fair portion of the Right Elite -- has blamed him personally and exclusively for it.  They've hammered on it from Day One, and correctly saw it as a wedge against Trump.

Personally, if the economy had continued roaring, I think Trump would have won by 5 mm to 10 mm votes and would have had 400+ electoral votes.  Not California, not New York, not Massachusetts; not those bastions of elitism -- but most of the other states.