(11-11-2020, 11:38 AM)donkey687 Wrote: My biggest beef with Shaw's recruiting is his inability to recruit redshirt seniors to return for their 5th year. Last season, we had almost no 5th year seniors with guys like Barton et al retiring or transferring. This year, we have 11 former starters who are either playing for other teams (Eboh, Hattis, Costello, Hamilton, Powell, Williams, Swann) or not playing this season (Little, Adeebo, Pryts, Head). This doesn't count the non-starters who transferred out (Stewart, Speights, et al). We didn't need or want all of those guys back and you can't fault Costello, Adeebo and Little who made NFL decisions, but this team would sure look different if we had 6 more 5th year seniors with 2 more experienced OL, 2 more DL, a ILB and starting CB. Those are positions of precarious depth that for various reasons our program wasn't attractive enough to retain those players. It bums me out and in my opinion not a good reflection of the state of the program. Other programs don't have that kind of inability to retain 5th year seniors. People will respond that we didn't have scholarships for them all and that they didn't get into grad school at Stanford, but the reality is most of them made football decisions and decided they were better off elsewhere and we had room for Swann, Williams, Hattis, Hamilton, Eboh, Pryts and Head who all would have seen playing time and most of them would have been starters.
No idea why they left. Could be program related. Could be grad school related. To me the fault/problem lies at the other end. There simply is no reason to redshirt anymore. If the guy can help, get him on the field.
(11-11-2020, 02:19 PM)gailtate Wrote:(11-11-2020, 01:50 PM)oregontim Wrote: I'm going to chime in here as alumnus of both, and a longtime fan of both Stanford and Notre Dame.
Neutral or biased? I'm not sure. Notre Dame was my first degree, undergrad, 50 years ago. One of my brothers graduated there, and one of my daughters graduated from Notre Dame. Stanford for me was an MBA 11 years later. One of my daughters graduated from Stanford, and my dad taught in the medical school as an adjunct. And I grew up in Los Altos, going to Stanford games regularly throughout my childhood. I watched John Brodie way back when.
I'm not claiming any special insight as an alum of both. This is an opportunity to voice some long-held opinions about college football and football coaches. All of this just opinions.
- With college-level coaches it ought to be a hierarchy of values, in which winning isn't everything. The coach of the football team isn't just about the team and the wins; it ought to be about what the institution values.
- The ideal is a football coach who stands for integrity, work effort, and honor; but also wins. During my years at Notre Dame we had Ara Parseghian, who excelled at football and as a leader. At Stanford we had Bill Walsh, who, like Parseghian, was both.
- I've disliked Brian Kelly since the first time I saw him humiliate a player on national TV, shouting abuse at a 20-year-old boy from close range. He does that less these days, but he still does it. If I were in charge, that behavior (and several other questionable decisions, like the death of a kid who was filming practice for Kelly during high winds; and some recruitment ethics questions) would rule him out. Even if ND were to win a national championship, I'd still rather have David Shaw than Brian Kelly.
- This is not just a fair weather opinion. I've stood for this point of view even when my teams weren't winning. I've swallowed the bad years when the coach wasn't an ahole in public. For example, Lou Holtz also won, but I was never proud of him.
- That many years later, I hated ND for its dealings with Tyrone Willingham. When they fired him after only two years to get Charlie Weiss. I would have hated that even if Weiss had done well. He didn't. I still resent that ND decision.
- The ND community overvalues football, IMO. The campus atmosphere on Saturdays at ND is entirely, like 100%, about the game. Nothing else matters to anybody. The place of the game at Stanford is more appropriate. Let the football fans (me included) focus on football; football is a sport, not a symbol of ultimate value. And I love football. I even played in the intramural league at ND, which is full pads and full tackle football. And I love watching games.
- ND has a recruiting advantage over Stanford because of its tradition of football, which I hope I've made clear is not necessarily the best thing for an educational institution, but does give it an advantage competing for the best high school players. I see stats that indicate that players recruited by both schools tend to go to Stanford. That's what I'd want for a grandson of mine who was in that position. But the stats don't show how many players across the country want to go to ND, compared to those who want to go to Stanford. ND is perceived to be a better path to the pros. ND and the golden dome, and touchdown Jesus, all stand for football. Stanford stands for education, and, the last couple decades, Silicon Valley. I like the latter better.
- I'd like David Shaw to get a new offensive coordinator and listen to him or her. I'd like him to channel Bill Walsh, with his innovative short-pass screen-pass offense, updated to 2020. I still shudder to think of that 2012 Fiesta Bowl when we sat down for a field goal with a minute still to play. I like the man, and what he stands for; but not his football strategy.
- I'd like ND to let Brian Kelly go.
Well put.
My wife grew up Los Altos. Covington School, Los Altos High. We met in an office on Main Street. Lived on Riverside Drive for 38 years.
Seems there are many Knights on this board..... (Eagles now.....)
(11-11-2020, 12:36 PM)gailtate Wrote:(11-11-2020, 10:49 AM)lex24 Wrote:(11-10-2020, 09:30 AM)gailtate Wrote: Notre Dame, Stanford:
How long ago does Conrad Ukropina’s season-ending field goal against the Fighting Irish feel? One could make a very strong argument that the Cardinal was right at the same level as Notre Dame as a program at that moment. Since 2015, here is how they compare:
Records:
Notre Dame 37-14
Stanford 32-20
AP Final Ranks ‘16-’19:
Notre Dame: NR, 11, 5, 12
Stanford: 12, 20, NR, NR.
(Courtesy R.J. Abeytia)
Brian Kelly, in the wake of a 4-8 season in 2015, cleaned house and doubled-down on recruiting. Then there's our "What, Me Worry?" guy.
Gail, I suggest you immediately start a petition to get Shaw fired . If you have a lot of money use it. Because your obsession is obvious. Post after Post after Post. Saying essentially the same thing. We get it, he can’t coach his way out of a paper bag. Whose next. I’m sure that whomever you choose will return Stanford to its pre Harbaugh/Shaw prominence.
Lex, I then suggest that you avoid my tiresome, repetitive, etc. etc, posts, or be sure to do one or more of the following i(f you insist on subjecting yourself to such aggravation-driven heartburn:
And while you're at it, take a flyin' leap.
- wearing looser clothing.
- standing up straight.
- elevating your upper body.
- mixing baking soda with water.
- trying ginger.
- taking licorice supplements.
- sipping apple cider vinegar.
- chewing gum to help dilute acid.
A little sensitive, eh? Too old to take a flying leap. I mean my vertical was never much to begin with.