[Mick]

There indeed is a group (great mass?) of quarterbacks who are not elite and who are dependent on their surrounding offensive teammates, their defense and their coaches in order to win. Garoppolo is obviously in this cohort. 

Not all that interested in this argument, but was interested in your statement regarding quarterbacks who were dependent on their coaches, defense and offensive teammates for success.

I would definitely include 4-time Super Bowl winner Terry Bradshaw in that group.  He never had the best passer rating in the NFL; in fact, he only made the top four once.  He had the Steel Curtain defense and Chuck Noll.

But would you include 4-time Super Bowl winner Joe Montana in that group?

For scheme, he had the West Coast Offense in its lusty youth.  For coaches, he had The Genius, who was such a great coach that he directly spawned seven 1st generation NFL coaches (Seifert, Green, Wyche, White, Coslet, Holmgren, Rhodes and doesn't even include others who were significantly influenced by Walsh and were in his employ like Tony Dungy and Jon Gruden). 

For defense, the 49ers were ranked in fewest points given up in the NFL during Montana's heyday (starting with the first Super Bowl season) as follows: 2, 23, 4, 1, 2, 3, 3, 8, 3, 2, 4, 3. In fact, the defense and offense equally split the 1981-1990 time period; five times the defense had a better position, five times the offense had the better position.

For offensive teammates, he played with 12 time pro bowler and arguably the greatest football player in history, Jerry Rice.  Guy McIntyre, Randy Cross, Keith Fahnhorst, Roger Craig, Tom Rathman, Brent Jones, Dwight Clark, John Taylor, Fred Quillen, Jesse Sapolu, Harris Barton, Freddie Solomon, Wendell Tyler, John Frank, Russ Francis, Earl Cooper, Terrence Flagler, Ray Wersching, and Mike Cofer; to say nothing of strong role players like Harry Sydney, Mike Wilson, Wesley Walls, Jamie Williams, Dexter Carter, Jeff Kemp, Bill Ring, Matt Cavanaugh, Rickey Patton, Johnny Davis, Lenvil Elliott, Renaldo Nehemiah and Mr. Ken Margerum.

Great coaches, great schemes, great teammates.  Montana wins four Super Bowls with the 49ers (although, arguably, the 49ers don't make it into the playoffs after the 1988 season without this run from Steve Young in a 24-21 win over the Vikings: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbPwwmEcws0  
During the 1988 season, the Bears were 12-4, the Vikings were 11-5 and there were five 10-6 teams in the NFC including the Saints, Rams, 49ers, Giants and Eagles. Only the top five teams made the playoffs, the Giants and Saints don't make it in.  If the 49ers finished 9-7, they would have been out and Terry Bradshaw would have stood alone with the second most Super Bowl wins at 4.  Montana would have fallen into a tie with Troy Aikman.  I'll bet Montana sends Steve Young a nice holiday card with a thank you note ever year.  But maybe not).  

So...was Montana the product of the coaches, system and defense as you mentioned above?

[Mick]

There indeed is a group (great mass?) of quarterbacks who are not elite and who are dependent on their surrounding offensive teammates, their defense and their coaches in order to win. Garoppolo is obviously in this cohort. 

Not all that interested in this argument, but was interested in your statement regarding quarterbacks who were dependent on their coaches, defense and offensive teammates for success.

I would definitely include 4-time Super Bowl winner Terry Bradshaw in that group.  He never had the best passer rating in the NFL; in fact, he only made the top four once.  He had the Steel Curtain defense and Chuck Noll.

But would you include 4-time Super Bowl winner Joe Montana in that group?

For scheme, he had the West Coast Offense in its lusty youth.  For coaches, he had The Genius, who was such a great coach that he directly spawned seven 1st generation NFL coaches (Seifert, Green, Wyche, White, Coslet, Holmgren, Rhodes and doesn't even include others who were significantly influenced by Walsh and were in his employ like Tony Dungy and Jon Gruden). 

For defense, the 49ers were ranked in fewest points given up in the NFL during Montana's heyday (starting with the first Super Bowl season) as follows: 2, 23, 4, 1, 2, 3, 3, 8, 3, 2, 4, 3. In fact, the defense and offense equally split the 1981-1990 time period; five times the defense had a better position, five times the offense had the better position.

For offensive teammates, he played with 12 time pro bowler and arguably the greatest football player in history, Jerry Rice.  Guy McIntyre, Randy Cross, Keith Fahnhorst, Roger Craig, Tom Rathman, Brent Jones, Dwight Clark, John Taylor, Fred Quillen, Jesse Sapolu, Harris Barton, Freddie Solomon, Wendell Tyler, John Frank, Russ Francis, Earl Cooper, Terrence Flagler, Ray Wersching, and Mike Cofer; to say nothing of strong role players like Harry Sydney, Mike Wilson, Wesley Walls, Jamie Williams, Dexter Carter, Jeff Kemp, Bill Ring, Matt Cavanaugh, Rickey Patton, Johnny Davis, Lenvil Elliott, Renaldo Nehemiah and Mr. Ken Margerum.

Great coaches, great schemes, great teammates.  Montana wins four Super Bowls with the 49ers (although, arguably, the 49ers don't make it into the playoffs after the 1988 season without this run from Steve Young in a 24-21 win over the Vikings: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbPwwmEcws0  
During the 1988 season, the Bears were 12-4, the Vikings were 11-5 and there were five 10-6 teams in the NFC including the Saints, Rams, 49ers, Giants and Eagles. Only the top five teams made the playoffs, the Giants and Saints don't make it in.  If the 49ers finished 9-7, they would have been out and Terry Bradshaw would have stood alone with the second most Super Bowl wins at 4.  Montana would have fallen into a tie with Troy Aikman.  I'll bet Montana sends Steve Young a nice holiday card with a thank you note ever year.  But maybe not).  

So...was Montana the product of the coaches, system and defense as you mentioned above?