[ColoradoTree]

I think this is a really difficult question, and I'm not sure there's a bright line rule that strikes the right balance in all situations. But this is usually a solutions-oriented board, so hopefully that prevails despite temperatures running high. 

This is only one aspect of this, but many states where so-called "bathroom bills" (and requiring a trans girl to play on a boys' team, etc.) have been most successful also see successful efforts to ban transition earlier. We know at this point that pre-puberty transitions are the most successful in addressing body dysmorphia, avoiding secondary sex characteristics of the sex they do not identify with, and ultimately helping the person feel "right" in their body. But from an athletic standpoint, there's also the added benefit of avoiding those durable physical advantages specifically where a male, post-puberty, transitions to female. And if you're worried a kid may change their mind, you've always got puberty blockers to give them more time to let the process play out. (I don't mean to imply there's a choice involved here in terms of what a kid's gender identity is, but sometimes time helps reveal to someone that while they know they're not male, where exactly they fall on the continuum of gender identity is something that may become clearer with more time.) If Lia Thomas had transitioned at 12 instead of 21, are we even having this conversation? 

I have been opposed to blanket, uniform policies that require someone born with male genitalia to always compete against boys. Life is more complicated than that, and it seems cruel to force a trans high school boy to use a girls' restroom and compete on girls' teams. Sport governing bodies having hormone thresholds seemed to be a solution, but as others have noted, a 20-year-old's male musculature just doesn't disappear entirely even when reducing testosterone. In most examples in the past, the trans female athlete hasn't been talented enough to make much of a difference, so whether trans girls and women should compete against other women has been an easy question before--if a trans athlete isn't dominating, then who cares? Let them compete wherever. But specifically with Lia Thomas, it seems different, and I sympathize more with the members of the Penn women's swimming team who are raising concerns more than I ever have with folks complaining about trans athletes in the past. And at the same time, I agree with most everything spike said about socioeconomics and natural advantages, and I am deeply suspicious when anti-LGBTQ forces operate under the guise of protecting women's sports, and Pat Forde was right when he said on the 1/25/22 episode of the College Football Enquirer podcast that "some of the folks who are really wound up about this and screaming about the fairness to women's sports really don't give a damn about women's sports. They're using this as a political wedge issue." (Again, I don't mean to imply anyone on this board is operating from other than a legitimate concern for fair competition in women's sports and a desire to see women get the athletic opportunities they're due, but we can also be honest and recognize those elements exist in the broader conversation here.) I find Brooke Forde's statement really compelling, and there's an element of unfairness for Thomas to be punished even after following all the rules before her. And that's not something I want to see lost in this discussion--Thomas has done nothing wrong. She's followed all the rules, she loves swimming, and she wants to compete. She should be able to compete. But I'm not sure it should be against women. 

Anyway. This one's tough. I'm frustrated that the NCAA hasn't led more on this issue recently, and it seems like there won't be resolution on this from a NCAA perspective until right before NCAAs. Even if USA Swimming's policy may be the best one, there is something deeply distasteful about a committee deciding just how much of a woman or a man you are. If the NCAA adopts the policy and ultimately excludes Thomas from the NCAA championships, I'll be sad for her, and I'll worry about the message it sends to young trans athletes. If the NCAA doesn't adopt the policy or otherwise permits Thomas to compete and Thomas shatters records all over the place, I'll feel sad for the other athletes competing, the results won't sit right, and the records will have less weight.

And until more states start permitting earlier transitions or at least allow puberty blockers to be utilized earlier, this situation is going to happen again, so there needs to be some fair but empathetic standard in place.

[ColoradoTree]

I think this is a really difficult question, and I'm not sure there's a bright line rule that strikes the right balance in all situations. But this is usually a solutions-oriented board, so hopefully that prevails despite temperatures running high. 

This is only one aspect of this, but many states where so-called "bathroom bills" (and requiring a trans girl to play on a boys' team, etc.) have been most successful also see successful efforts to ban transition earlier. We know at this point that pre-puberty transitions are the most successful in addressing body dysmorphia, avoiding secondary sex characteristics of the sex they do not identify with, and ultimately helping the person feel "right" in their body. But from an athletic standpoint, there's also the added benefit of avoiding those durable physical advantages specifically where a male, post-puberty, transitions to female. And if you're worried a kid may change their mind, you've always got puberty blockers to give them more time to let the process play out. (I don't mean to imply there's a choice involved here in terms of what a kid's gender identity is, but sometimes time helps reveal to someone that while they know they're not male, where exactly they fall on the continuum of gender identity is something that may become clearer with more time.) If Lia Thomas had transitioned at 12 instead of 21, are we even having this conversation? 

I have been opposed to blanket, uniform policies that require someone born with male genitalia to always compete against boys. Life is more complicated than that, and it seems cruel to force a trans high school boy to use a girls' restroom and compete on girls' teams. Sport governing bodies having hormone thresholds seemed to be a solution, but as others have noted, a 20-year-old's male musculature just doesn't disappear entirely even when reducing testosterone. In most examples in the past, the trans female athlete hasn't been talented enough to make much of a difference, so whether trans girls and women should compete against other women has been an easy question before--if a trans athlete isn't dominating, then who cares? Let them compete wherever. But specifically with Lia Thomas, it seems different, and I sympathize more with the members of the Penn women's swimming team who are raising concerns more than I ever have with folks complaining about trans athletes in the past. And at the same time, I agree with most everything spike said about socioeconomics and natural advantages, and I am deeply suspicious when anti-LGBTQ forces operate under the guise of protecting women's sports, and Pat Forde was right when he said on the 1/25/22 episode of the College Football Enquirer podcast that "some of the folks who are really wound up about this and screaming about the fairness to women's sports really don't give a damn about women's sports. They're using this as a political wedge issue." (Again, I don't mean to imply anyone on this board is operating from other than a legitimate concern for fair competition in women's sports and a desire to see women get the athletic opportunities they're due, but we can also be honest and recognize those elements exist in the broader conversation here.) I find Brooke Forde's statement really compelling, and there's an element of unfairness for Thomas to be punished even after following all the rules before her. And that's not something I want to see lost in this discussion--Thomas has done nothing wrong. She's followed all the rules, she loves swimming, and she wants to compete. She should be able to compete. But I'm not sure it should be against women. 

Anyway. This one's tough. I'm frustrated that the NCAA hasn't led more on this issue recently, and it seems like there won't be resolution on this from a NCAA perspective until right before NCAAs. Even if USA Swimming's policy may be the best one, there is something deeply distasteful about a committee deciding just how much of a woman or a man you are. If the NCAA adopts the policy and ultimately excludes Thomas from the NCAA championships, I'll be sad for her, and I'll worry about the message it sends to young trans athletes. If the NCAA doesn't adopt the policy or otherwise permits Thomas to compete and Thomas shatters records all over the place, I'll feel sad for the other athletes competing, the results won't sit right, and the records will have less weight.

And until more states start permitting earlier transitions or at least allow puberty blockers to be utilized earlier, this situation is going to happen again, so there needs to be some fair but empathetic standard in place.