[cardcrimson]

Late to the party.

(1) It is interesting that this discussion has been conducted almost entirely by men. Not that that's not inevitable, given the demographic of a sports chat board, but  . . .  interesting.

(2) My own views are formed by the opinions of two women I know, my daughter-in-law who was a first class distance runner at Princeton, and the tennis player Martina Navratilova. Both have general world views that are considerably left of center. Both want nothing to do with biological males, however hormonally altered, in women's sports. They are keen competitors. They run (or play) to win. They don't think it's fair. I believe their views are representative of most women athletes. The times are such that these views can't be expressed easily.

(3) One of the seminal works of modern feminism is Virginia Woolf's extended essay 'A Room of One's Own', published in 1921, on the importance of personal and private space for a woman. The intrusiveness of male social norms in all areas of life is felt keenly by many women, frankly not something I understand, but often spoken of. It is interesting to me that modern feminism now seems to have come full circle, obliterating that women's room, be it the traditional rest room or reserved athletic space. Where does a woman escape male influence?  It seems that feminist theory has devoured itself.

(4) For years, I suggested 'open' and 'women's' events. I notice a number of posters suggested the same thing. If sports were organized that way, I believe a surprising number of women would try it out, like marathons. But it probably would not do for transgenders, who insist they are women for all purposes. I don't want to see anyone jeered at, scorned, or deprecated in any way. But as a matter of common sense reality, I don't think transgenders are the same as biological women. There is a difference.

(5) Like abortion, I believe this is a women's only issue. Unlike abortion, I don't think the vote on the issue would be at all close. Let the women vote in secret ballot, where there are no political consequences, and I think they will vote overwhelmingly to exclude biological males. They want a room of their own. They compete to win, not simply participate. That leaves the sports authorities to find a place for transgenders to compete, which isn't that tough.

Great post. Pretty much agreed with everything you said, until number 5. My views have morphed over the years, especially when I heard my daughters heart beat at around three months. Hoping to keep this sports related, I was moved by Ralph Barbieri's, who was very left of center, take on abortion when he dealt with it up close and personally and talked about it on KNBR with Tom. A recap is about midway:

https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/sfg...id=2062402

No political intent here, just an interesting observation.

As for the bathroom debate. Why on earth would women want to share a bathroom with men? We have a tendency to pee, or at least drip, all over the seat. Love the sign: "If you sprinkle when you tinkle, be a sweetie and wipe the seatie." or is it "lift the seatie"

[cardcrimson]

Late to the party.

(1) It is interesting that this discussion has been conducted almost entirely by men. Not that that's not inevitable, given the demographic of a sports chat board, but  . . .  interesting.

(2) My own views are formed by the opinions of two women I know, my daughter-in-law who was a first class distance runner at Princeton, and the tennis player Martina Navratilova. Both have general world views that are considerably left of center. Both want nothing to do with biological males, however hormonally altered, in women's sports. They are keen competitors. They run (or play) to win. They don't think it's fair. I believe their views are representative of most women athletes. The times are such that these views can't be expressed easily.

(3) One of the seminal works of modern feminism is Virginia Woolf's extended essay 'A Room of One's Own', published in 1921, on the importance of personal and private space for a woman. The intrusiveness of male social norms in all areas of life is felt keenly by many women, frankly not something I understand, but often spoken of. It is interesting to me that modern feminism now seems to have come full circle, obliterating that women's room, be it the traditional rest room or reserved athletic space. Where does a woman escape male influence?  It seems that feminist theory has devoured itself.

(4) For years, I suggested 'open' and 'women's' events. I notice a number of posters suggested the same thing. If sports were organized that way, I believe a surprising number of women would try it out, like marathons. But it probably would not do for transgenders, who insist they are women for all purposes. I don't want to see anyone jeered at, scorned, or deprecated in any way. But as a matter of common sense reality, I don't think transgenders are the same as biological women. There is a difference.

(5) Like abortion, I believe this is a women's only issue. Unlike abortion, I don't think the vote on the issue would be at all close. Let the women vote in secret ballot, where there are no political consequences, and I think they will vote overwhelmingly to exclude biological males. They want a room of their own. They compete to win, not simply participate. That leaves the sports authorities to find a place for transgenders to compete, which isn't that tough.

Great post. Pretty much agreed with everything you said, until number 5. My views have morphed over the years, especially when I heard my daughters heart beat at around three months. Hoping to keep this sports related, I was moved by Ralph Barbieri's, who was very left of center, take on abortion when he dealt with it up close and personally and talked about it on KNBR with Tom. A recap is about midway:

https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/sfg...id=2062402

No political intent here, just an interesting observation.

As for the bathroom debate. Why on earth would women want to share a bathroom with men? We have a tendency to pee, or at least drip, all over the seat. Love the sign: "If you sprinkle when you tinkle, be a sweetie and wipe the seatie." or is it "lift the seatie"