12-03-2022, 07:07 PM
(This post was last modified: 12-03-2022, 07:12 PM by StanUSwagU.)
Just had to state: [Very much enjoying the posts of OutsiderFan & BostonCard]:
Coach JimHarbaugh turned around StanfordFootball on all fronts [W-L, Getting to the Jan1 BCS OrangeBowl, Recruiting, etc], so lets look at a few of his characteristics , and see if any of the coaches being bandied about match those characteristics:
Not that this is the entire story, but:
(1). Played in the NFL
(2). Starred at a Major BigTime College Program [Michigan]
(3). Enthusiasm Unknown to Mankind [EUTM]
(4). Charismatic
(5). Stated Slogan/Mission for Stanford Football was something like 'We will reclaim our rightful place atop CollegeFootball & Bow to no other program !'
[All these things make you a magnet for Blue Chip High School Recruits ...and a big part of success at CollegeFootball is Recruiting]
Do any of the names being bandied about, meet these 5 criteria ?
(Yes, I realize some College Football Coaches have had success without the above 5 characteristics, but were they able to take a 2win program to a BCS level; for example CoachShaw won a lot of games, but he didn't have to as a HeadCoach, Turn around a 2 win program into a 10 or 11 win program ...as CoachHarbaugh did).
[/quote]
How many of those criteria did Nick Saban check off when he took over a crappy Alabama program that was both in turmoil and on probation? Any?
[/quote]
“Roll Tide.” Mike Price……
[/quote]
*********
CardCrimson:(Good question, I will try to explain):
I think Saban meets criteria 3,4,5 above.
The reason I mention criteria 1 and 2 is that if you have a Coach who 'Played in the NFL' & 'Starred at a BigTime CollegeFootball Program' ....it is that 'extra magnet/cache/evidence' of 'the university being 'Serious about BigTime CollegeFootball' ....for a program that maybe 4&5 star* recruits 'don't perceive as being 'Serious about BigTime CollegeFootball'
Recruits (even in the down years of Alabama) knew Alabama was 'Serious about BigTime CollegeFootball' ...hence they don't need a Coach to have criteria 1 and 2.
[/quote]
Saban has a very very solid work ethic, but hardly exudes EUTM.
Charisma? Have you seen his commercials. Maybe in person.
Don't think he's one for slogans, either.
During the early 2000s, no one thought Alabama was serious about big time college football, especially the recruits.
*******Reply*******
CardCrimson,
These were your statements, I will try to take each 1 of them individually & provide evidence/data that might suggest otherwise. It could be that we have different definitions of the criteria, so I will try to explain my perspective:
cardcrimson: "Saban has a very very solid work ethic, but hardly exudes EUTM"
My definition of 'Enthusiasm' is "Passion & Intensity for what you do"; Please watch these 2 YouTube videos of Saban, I think they definitely show a High Level of 'Passion, Intensity & Enthusiasm':
Video1: Saban Teaching & Demonstrating DB technique to his Alabama DB (and mind you Saban is in his 60s here):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7a96j18F0-E
Video2: During a game, Saban letting Lane Kiffin, know exactly how he feels about the 'offensive play calling'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQ8kX1kjm14
cardcrimson: "Charisma? Have you seen his commercials. Maybe in person."
My definition of 'Charisma' is the ability "To have some Natural Style, Swagger, & Presence about yourself, such that you can interact with people outside of your 'Professional buttoned up' mode"
Please watch these 2 YouTube videos of Saban, I think they definitely show he has a definite 'Charisma' that extends beyond 'being a FootballCoach'
Video1: Saban at his summer boathouse on the river, boating with Eli-Manning
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00S5e2dEAmw
Video2: Saban at a HomeVisit at a PrizedRecruits House & Dinner Cocktail Party Event, Line-Dancing with all the Recruit's Family & Friends
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6v8dldaEA8
cardcrimson: "Don't think he's one for slogans, either."
Here are just a very few of Coach Saban's 'Slogans/Quotes" that he is famous for:
1. “Mediocre people hate high achievers, and high achievers hate mediocre people.”
2. “You guys gave us a lot of really positive rat poison. The rat poison that you usually give us is usually fatal. But the rat poison that you put out there this week was yummy.”
3. “Becoming a champion is not an easy process… It is done by focusing on what it takes to get there, and not on getting there.”
4. “And they ran through our ass like shit through a tin horn, man, and we could not stop them. We could not stop them. Could not stop them.”
5. “I think everybody should take the attitude that we’re working to be a champion, that we want to be a champion in everything that we do. Every choice, every decision, everything that we do everyday, we want to be a champion.”
cardcrimson: "During the early 2000s, no one thought Alabama was serious about big time college football, especially the recruits."
I have copied and pasted below, some historical & factual records of Alabama Teams near the era of the 2000s that also contains a list of the Players that played on those 2000s era teams; Yes they weren't National Champion Teams, but if you look at these Lists of Accomplishments & The Players on those teams (including the ones that went onto to play in the NFL), one can reasonably conclude that even in the 2000s, Alabama was still playing 'BigTime College Football' & 'Attracting Big Time Recruits'. [If anyone here knows that era & the SEC, (I watch a fair amount of SEC football), some of the recruits/talent on these teams was top notch, though the poor coaching led to sometimes mediocre W-L records for a given season, mediocre by Alabama standards]
Mike DuBose (1997-00)
DuBose became Alabama’s head coach after Gene Stallings left in 1996.
His best coaching seasons were in 1998 and 1999.
In his second year, DuBose guided the Crimson Tide to a 7-5 season.
In 1999, Alabama notched a 10-3 record under DuBose.
DuBose won a SEC title with Alabama in 1999 and was named SEC Coach of the Year in the same season.
He led the Tide to the 2000 FedEx Orange Bowl. (Alabama lost to Michigan 35-34)
Alabama finished the 1999 season ranked No. 8 in the nation. DuBose guided the program to its first top-10 finish in five years.
DuBose placed Shaun Alexander, Chris Samuels, Cornelius Griffin, Deshea Townsend, Curtis Alexander and Fernando Bryant in the National Football League.
Overall, DuBose was 24-23 in his tenure at Alabama.
Dennis Franchione (2001-02)
Franchione coached two seasons at the Capstone, but posted an overall record of 17-8.
He led Alabama to winning record in his two seasons at the helm.
In 2001, the Crimson Tide notched a 7-5 record under Franchione.
Alabama defeated Iowa State 14-13 in the 2001 Independence Bowl.
In his second season, Franchione guided the Tide to a 10-3 record.
The Crimson Tide defeated Hawaii 21-16 in the Aloha Bowl.
Franchione placed Saleem Rasheed, Jason McAddley, Terry Jones and Freddie Milons in the NFL.
Mike Shula (2003-06)
Shula took the reins as the Tide’s head coach after Mike Price was terminated in 2003.
His finest coaching performance was in 2005.
After a 6-6 season in 2004, Shula coached Alabama to a 10-2 record in 2005.
He made three bowl appearances as the Tide’s head coach. (Alabama won the 2006 Cotton Bowl 13-10 against Texas Tech)
Under Shula, Alabama finished No. 8 in the nation in 2005.
Shula placed 13 Crimson Tide players in the NFL, including DeMeco Ryans, Brodie Croyle, Roman Harper and Charlie Peprah.
Overall, Shula was 26-23 in his tenure with the Tide.
[cardcrimson: I provide this data, not to completely refute what you are saying, but merely to show 'where my conclusions of Saban having characteristics 3,4,&5 come from]
*******Reply*******
Coach JimHarbaugh turned around StanfordFootball on all fronts [W-L, Getting to the Jan1 BCS OrangeBowl, Recruiting, etc], so lets look at a few of his characteristics , and see if any of the coaches being bandied about match those characteristics:
Not that this is the entire story, but:
(1). Played in the NFL
(2). Starred at a Major BigTime College Program [Michigan]
(3). Enthusiasm Unknown to Mankind [EUTM]
(4). Charismatic
(5). Stated Slogan/Mission for Stanford Football was something like 'We will reclaim our rightful place atop CollegeFootball & Bow to no other program !'
[All these things make you a magnet for Blue Chip High School Recruits ...and a big part of success at CollegeFootball is Recruiting]
Do any of the names being bandied about, meet these 5 criteria ?
(Yes, I realize some College Football Coaches have had success without the above 5 characteristics, but were they able to take a 2win program to a BCS level; for example CoachShaw won a lot of games, but he didn't have to as a HeadCoach, Turn around a 2 win program into a 10 or 11 win program ...as CoachHarbaugh did).
[/quote]
How many of those criteria did Nick Saban check off when he took over a crappy Alabama program that was both in turmoil and on probation? Any?
[/quote]
“Roll Tide.” Mike Price……
[/quote]
*********
CardCrimson:(Good question, I will try to explain):
I think Saban meets criteria 3,4,5 above.
The reason I mention criteria 1 and 2 is that if you have a Coach who 'Played in the NFL' & 'Starred at a BigTime CollegeFootball Program' ....it is that 'extra magnet/cache/evidence' of 'the university being 'Serious about BigTime CollegeFootball' ....for a program that maybe 4&5 star* recruits 'don't perceive as being 'Serious about BigTime CollegeFootball'
Recruits (even in the down years of Alabama) knew Alabama was 'Serious about BigTime CollegeFootball' ...hence they don't need a Coach to have criteria 1 and 2.
[/quote]
Saban has a very very solid work ethic, but hardly exudes EUTM.
Charisma? Have you seen his commercials. Maybe in person.
Don't think he's one for slogans, either.
During the early 2000s, no one thought Alabama was serious about big time college football, especially the recruits.
*******Reply*******
CardCrimson,
These were your statements, I will try to take each 1 of them individually & provide evidence/data that might suggest otherwise. It could be that we have different definitions of the criteria, so I will try to explain my perspective:
cardcrimson: "Saban has a very very solid work ethic, but hardly exudes EUTM"
My definition of 'Enthusiasm' is "Passion & Intensity for what you do"; Please watch these 2 YouTube videos of Saban, I think they definitely show a High Level of 'Passion, Intensity & Enthusiasm':
Video1: Saban Teaching & Demonstrating DB technique to his Alabama DB (and mind you Saban is in his 60s here):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7a96j18F0-E
Video2: During a game, Saban letting Lane Kiffin, know exactly how he feels about the 'offensive play calling'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQ8kX1kjm14
cardcrimson: "Charisma? Have you seen his commercials. Maybe in person."
My definition of 'Charisma' is the ability "To have some Natural Style, Swagger, & Presence about yourself, such that you can interact with people outside of your 'Professional buttoned up' mode"
Please watch these 2 YouTube videos of Saban, I think they definitely show he has a definite 'Charisma' that extends beyond 'being a FootballCoach'
Video1: Saban at his summer boathouse on the river, boating with Eli-Manning
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00S5e2dEAmw
Video2: Saban at a HomeVisit at a PrizedRecruits House & Dinner Cocktail Party Event, Line-Dancing with all the Recruit's Family & Friends
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6v8dldaEA8
cardcrimson: "Don't think he's one for slogans, either."
Here are just a very few of Coach Saban's 'Slogans/Quotes" that he is famous for:
1. “Mediocre people hate high achievers, and high achievers hate mediocre people.”
2. “You guys gave us a lot of really positive rat poison. The rat poison that you usually give us is usually fatal. But the rat poison that you put out there this week was yummy.”
3. “Becoming a champion is not an easy process… It is done by focusing on what it takes to get there, and not on getting there.”
4. “And they ran through our ass like shit through a tin horn, man, and we could not stop them. We could not stop them. Could not stop them.”
5. “I think everybody should take the attitude that we’re working to be a champion, that we want to be a champion in everything that we do. Every choice, every decision, everything that we do everyday, we want to be a champion.”
cardcrimson: "During the early 2000s, no one thought Alabama was serious about big time college football, especially the recruits."
I have copied and pasted below, some historical & factual records of Alabama Teams near the era of the 2000s that also contains a list of the Players that played on those 2000s era teams; Yes they weren't National Champion Teams, but if you look at these Lists of Accomplishments & The Players on those teams (including the ones that went onto to play in the NFL), one can reasonably conclude that even in the 2000s, Alabama was still playing 'BigTime College Football' & 'Attracting Big Time Recruits'. [If anyone here knows that era & the SEC, (I watch a fair amount of SEC football), some of the recruits/talent on these teams was top notch, though the poor coaching led to sometimes mediocre W-L records for a given season, mediocre by Alabama standards]
Mike DuBose (1997-00)
DuBose became Alabama’s head coach after Gene Stallings left in 1996.
His best coaching seasons were in 1998 and 1999.
In his second year, DuBose guided the Crimson Tide to a 7-5 season.
In 1999, Alabama notched a 10-3 record under DuBose.
DuBose won a SEC title with Alabama in 1999 and was named SEC Coach of the Year in the same season.
He led the Tide to the 2000 FedEx Orange Bowl. (Alabama lost to Michigan 35-34)
Alabama finished the 1999 season ranked No. 8 in the nation. DuBose guided the program to its first top-10 finish in five years.
DuBose placed Shaun Alexander, Chris Samuels, Cornelius Griffin, Deshea Townsend, Curtis Alexander and Fernando Bryant in the National Football League.
Overall, DuBose was 24-23 in his tenure at Alabama.
Dennis Franchione (2001-02)
Franchione coached two seasons at the Capstone, but posted an overall record of 17-8.
He led Alabama to winning record in his two seasons at the helm.
In 2001, the Crimson Tide notched a 7-5 record under Franchione.
Alabama defeated Iowa State 14-13 in the 2001 Independence Bowl.
In his second season, Franchione guided the Tide to a 10-3 record.
The Crimson Tide defeated Hawaii 21-16 in the Aloha Bowl.
Franchione placed Saleem Rasheed, Jason McAddley, Terry Jones and Freddie Milons in the NFL.
Mike Shula (2003-06)
Shula took the reins as the Tide’s head coach after Mike Price was terminated in 2003.
His finest coaching performance was in 2005.
After a 6-6 season in 2004, Shula coached Alabama to a 10-2 record in 2005.
He made three bowl appearances as the Tide’s head coach. (Alabama won the 2006 Cotton Bowl 13-10 against Texas Tech)
Under Shula, Alabama finished No. 8 in the nation in 2005.
Shula placed 13 Crimson Tide players in the NFL, including DeMeco Ryans, Brodie Croyle, Roman Harper and Charlie Peprah.
Overall, Shula was 26-23 in his tenure with the Tide.
[cardcrimson: I provide this data, not to completely refute what you are saying, but merely to show 'where my conclusions of Saban having characteristics 3,4,&5 come from]
*******Reply*******