[Mick]

To date, very disappointing.  However, a number of names are still available The Giants need to sign at least three - SS, SP and RP (Correa, Bassitt, Rogers???), negotiate a trade for an OF and hope the farm system does a 180 from the ‘22 results to remain within shouting distance of LA and SD.  Otherwise, 2023 will be a long march to nowhere (in particular)….

Update:  Forget Bassitt.  SF not pursuing him at this time.  Insert another SP (Manea) in place of Bassitt.

You nailed Manaea.  Not excited on this end.

---

Don't know much about Nimmo, but I read an article referenced somewhere. Seems to not hit for power, kind of gets on base, and is injury prone. Considered the second best free agent outfielder this year. Seems the Giants dodged a bullet here.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/12/m...-deal.html

Frankly...I know this isn't a popular opinion, but I think that about most super-sized free agent contracts. I think about the bullets we dodged (Kris Bryant) and bullets we didn't dodge, like Barry Zito, or going way back, Rennie Stennett.  Or guys like Bryce Harper who signed with Philadelphia -- the ballpark where he has the highest OPS. Harper's OPS at SF last year was .533 and .656 for his career, lowest for any ballpark that he's had 100 or more ABs. He doesn't hit well in SF, period. 

There are two major "name" shortstops left, Carlos Correa and Dansby Swanson.  Of the 27 ballparks in which Correa has played, he has the second-lowest OPS at Oracle Park, just .449. For his career, Swanson is only .618 OPS at Oracle but he had a 1.122 OPS there last year, tops among all ballparks he played in last year. I say, get Swanson.

Cherry-picking aside, stars matter. The market is what it is.  Was Nimmo “overpaid”. Sure.  But was it out of line with other offers. Dunno.

(Bryant was an easy pass.  He did not perform all that well in SF and the Rockies made an absurd offer.  Much as the Giants did with Zito.  It wasn’t that they signed him.  It was that by all accounts they were way beyond any other offer. Having said that, they don’t win in 2012 without Zito.  So, maybe it was worth it after all.)

Nimmo had a .373 OBP last year. Hit over .300. He’s fast. And a CF. Only hit 5 HRs last year. But has hit as many as 20. 

Correa is a better pick than Swanson. Terrific defensive SS with power.  What he has hit at Oracle in a few AB’s is irrelevant.  He’s also supposedly a tremendous teammate.  
Yes, they will need to pay a premium.  Yes, the back end will be scary.  So, what. That’s the market they are in.  We were told they are going to be major players. To date, they’ve  whiffed. But if they can’t get Correa - sure, go after Swanson.

Right now it’s a weak roster. They will add.  But if it’s only at Bargain Market, this will be a lost  Winter. Worse than ‘21.  When this organization could not afford that result.  Something Zaidi basically admitted pre December.

Trying doesn’t matter. Results do.  So far, the results have been abysmal.

I wonder about that. League average ERA was 3.94 in 2012, Zito's was 4.15, 39th among 47 NL starting pitchers that year. He got very lucky...good for him and good for the Giants, but another average starter that didn't have a salary among the top five starters could likely have managed a 4.15 ERA, particularly with Posey catching.

Correa has gone 3 for 19 at Oracle, all singles, with six strikeouts. At home, he has annihilated Giants pitching. Swanson's 2022 OPS was slightly lower than Correa's and Swanson was a gold glove fielder. They both had 8 errors, but Swanson had more than 100 more chances in the field. Swanson also had 77 DPs vs  51 for Correa. Swanson was an all star, Correa was not.  Frankly, I'd take either one over what we have.

Mick, 19 ABs mean nothing. Remember Mark Portugal.  Killed the Giants. So, they signed him.  Continued to kill the Giants…..

Zito was nails in NLCS  and series in ‘12. Which is what I meant.

I would have taken Portugal. He had a 3.25 ERA at Candlestick (second best of all ballparks in which he pitched 5 or more games) and went 15-13 in a Giants uniform. Of course, he'd just gone 18-4 for Houston....

And you're right, Zito had one terrible start in the NLDS (which the Giants ended up winning), then he had a terrific start in the NLCS against the Cardinals (no runs, 7 2/3 IP) and a strong start against the Tigers in the WS (5 IP, 1 earned run). 

I still think splits are meaningful. Bryce Harper had never hit well at Oracle prior to signing with Philly -- a place where he'd hit the best. Sure enough, in 2022 his OPS was .533 at Oracle, .877 overall.

[Mick]

To date, very disappointing.  However, a number of names are still available The Giants need to sign at least three - SS, SP and RP (Correa, Bassitt, Rogers???), negotiate a trade for an OF and hope the farm system does a 180 from the ‘22 results to remain within shouting distance of LA and SD.  Otherwise, 2023 will be a long march to nowhere (in particular)….

Update:  Forget Bassitt.  SF not pursuing him at this time.  Insert another SP (Manea) in place of Bassitt.

You nailed Manaea.  Not excited on this end.

---

Don't know much about Nimmo, but I read an article referenced somewhere. Seems to not hit for power, kind of gets on base, and is injury prone. Considered the second best free agent outfielder this year. Seems the Giants dodged a bullet here.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/12/m...-deal.html

Frankly...I know this isn't a popular opinion, but I think that about most super-sized free agent contracts. I think about the bullets we dodged (Kris Bryant) and bullets we didn't dodge, like Barry Zito, or going way back, Rennie Stennett.  Or guys like Bryce Harper who signed with Philadelphia -- the ballpark where he has the highest OPS. Harper's OPS at SF last year was .533 and .656 for his career, lowest for any ballpark that he's had 100 or more ABs. He doesn't hit well in SF, period. 

There are two major "name" shortstops left, Carlos Correa and Dansby Swanson.  Of the 27 ballparks in which Correa has played, he has the second-lowest OPS at Oracle Park, just .449. For his career, Swanson is only .618 OPS at Oracle but he had a 1.122 OPS there last year, tops among all ballparks he played in last year. I say, get Swanson.

Cherry-picking aside, stars matter. The market is what it is.  Was Nimmo “overpaid”. Sure.  But was it out of line with other offers. Dunno.

(Bryant was an easy pass.  He did not perform all that well in SF and the Rockies made an absurd offer.  Much as the Giants did with Zito.  It wasn’t that they signed him.  It was that by all accounts they were way beyond any other offer. Having said that, they don’t win in 2012 without Zito.  So, maybe it was worth it after all.)

Nimmo had a .373 OBP last year. Hit over .300. He’s fast. And a CF. Only hit 5 HRs last year. But has hit as many as 20. 

Correa is a better pick than Swanson. Terrific defensive SS with power.  What he has hit at Oracle in a few AB’s is irrelevant.  He’s also supposedly a tremendous teammate.  
Yes, they will need to pay a premium.  Yes, the back end will be scary.  So, what. That’s the market they are in.  We were told they are going to be major players. To date, they’ve  whiffed. But if they can’t get Correa - sure, go after Swanson.

Right now it’s a weak roster. They will add.  But if it’s only at Bargain Market, this will be a lost  Winter. Worse than ‘21.  When this organization could not afford that result.  Something Zaidi basically admitted pre December.

Trying doesn’t matter. Results do.  So far, the results have been abysmal.

I wonder about that. League average ERA was 3.94 in 2012, Zito's was 4.15, 39th among 47 NL starting pitchers that year. He got very lucky...good for him and good for the Giants, but another average starter that didn't have a salary among the top five starters could likely have managed a 4.15 ERA, particularly with Posey catching.

Correa has gone 3 for 19 at Oracle, all singles, with six strikeouts. At home, he has annihilated Giants pitching. Swanson's 2022 OPS was slightly lower than Correa's and Swanson was a gold glove fielder. They both had 8 errors, but Swanson had more than 100 more chances in the field. Swanson also had 77 DPs vs  51 for Correa. Swanson was an all star, Correa was not.  Frankly, I'd take either one over what we have.

Mick, 19 ABs mean nothing. Remember Mark Portugal.  Killed the Giants. So, they signed him.  Continued to kill the Giants…..

Zito was nails in NLCS  and series in ‘12. Which is what I meant.

I would have taken Portugal. He had a 3.25 ERA at Candlestick (second best of all ballparks in which he pitched 5 or more games) and went 15-13 in a Giants uniform. Of course, he'd just gone 18-4 for Houston....

And you're right, Zito had one terrible start in the NLDS (which the Giants ended up winning), then he had a terrific start in the NLCS against the Cardinals (no runs, 7 2/3 IP) and a strong start against the Tigers in the WS (5 IP, 1 earned run). 

I still think splits are meaningful. Bryce Harper had never hit well at Oracle prior to signing with Philly -- a place where he'd hit the best. Sure enough, in 2022 his OPS was .533 at Oracle, .877 overall.