(12-11-2022, 10:52 PM)cardcrimson Wrote:(12-09-2022, 01:59 PM)Leftcoast Wrote: Well, to turn the weak US/strong Russian narrative on it's head the US showed they care about ordinary citizens and victims of injustice while the Soviets showed they valued freeing an arms dealer that exported death to terrorists in the developing world. If I were watching this from the outside I know where I'd want to live.
Bout was detained in 2010 and received a 25 year sentence of which he served half. He is no longer anonymous and his arms dealing hey-day is 22 years in the rear view mirror. He's unlikely to travel outside of Russia ever again. Not justice but no one was going to get Briner freed without an unsavory trade of some sort.
A few questions/comments:
US showed they care about ordinary citizens: Do you really consider Griner, a two time gold medal olympian, an WNBA star, a prominent member of the African American and LBGTQ communities an ordinary citizen?
Yup, not a US employee, not military and, in fact, simply a citizen. She may be well known here but I'm guessing very few people in the US knew who she was prior to her imprisonment ... and not many cared. Thus the successful campaign to raise awareness in basketball circles.
A victim of injustice: Griner, her lawyer, and her wife all acknowledge she entered Russia with hash oil. How is she a victim of injustice?
I'm pretty sure she wouldn't have received a lengthy prison sentence if she hadn't been useful as a lever to use against US interests. Sure she needn't have played in Russia but until recently that was the way MANY WNBA stars (and many former Stanford stars) made off-season money. My guess is this wasn't the first time Griner and others carried CBDs. I'd never do it, you'd never do it, it was stupid, but athletes aren't known for their wise decisions in this.
the Soviets [sic] showed they valued freeing an arms dealer that exported death to terrorists in the developing world: Bout didn't export death to terrorists. He sold them the weapons to bring death upon their enemies, especially the US, its partners, and their citizens. How is bargaining for the freedom of such an important weapon against your enemies perceived as being a bad thing?
Morality and values matter. My point was this very clearly pointed to a stark difference (IMHO) between the two countries. Let's not forget this guy supplied arms to some of the most unsavory conflicts in modern history (Sudan, Congo, Taliban, etc). He reputedly supplied BOTH sides of several conflicts. But a Russian hero ... so yeah it shows state values clearly.
He is no longer anonymous and his arms dealing hey-day is 22 years in the rear view mirror. Was he ever anonymous? If he was arrested in 2010, help with the math that his heyday was 22 years ago.
Arrested in 2008 but was under US and Interpol watch since the early 2000s which reportedly greatly curtailed his travel and network. May have been why he got desperate and allowed himself to get set-up.
Not justice but no one was going to get Briner freed without an unsavory trade of some sort. No comment here, as a logical, historical reply would be deemed too political.
Well, this is unfortunately political to some. I'm happy a US citizen was freed even if she's did something stupid and has never been my favorite player dating back to here days at Baylor.
I bet there is a lot of rethinking going on among WNBA players as unlike mens basketball playing overseas isn't just for WNBA wannabes. Many recent WNBA all-stars played there - Off the top of my head, Sue Bird, Candace Parker, Breanna Stewart, Diana Taurasi, current WNBA MVP Janquel Jones, etc. Another large set of WNBA and Stanford alums play in Turkey which may also be due for closer examination.
In 1938 Neville Chamberlain declared "Peace in our time", Superman first appeared in Action Comics, Seabiscuit beat War Admiral ....... and C.a.l last won the Rose Bowl.