[OutsiderFan]

The Giants are a clown show. 

All season: Farhan and Gabe are returning

Tuesday: Logan Webb calls out the team culture

Thursday: Farhan goes on radio and backs down from his "Gabe is returning mantra"

Friday: Gabe is fired, Farhan makes comments that make clear it wasn't his idea to fire Gabe while claiming it was his decision, and then he says he needs to be open to different ideas.

As far as we know: Let's leave the guy in charge of all baseball decisions who brought us here.

Now let's bring in a manager who is on a short leash, because the guy who hires him can easily be removed next year, and be replaced by someone who won't have any allegiance to the guy???

Let's be clear, it's not just the issue of maybe being employed a year for potential manager candidates, it's that you have to uproot and move your family and home too. These decisions aren't made with one year horizons in mind.

The Giants are toxic to free agents right now. They are not exactly a well-oiled machine, and everything about them is mediocre.  They are a middling team by every meaningful measure, including into the farm system.

I've asked this before, I'll ask it again. What example is there of a coach/manager/GM getting a "vote of confidence" after having a poor record of performance that required such a statement, and then a turnaround happening? The only example I can think of is Brian Kelly at Notre Dame. Every other coach or GM who has ever been in the position Farhan finds himself in, has ultimately been replaced in short order because they never improved their performance.

The Giants don't know who they are or what they want to be. At least if you were all-in on Farhan, fans could disagree with and not like him or Gabe, but at least you know who is in charge, the Giants are hell bent on winning based on marginal matchup percentages, and he's being given autonomy to do what he wants so he can be fairly judged. Keeping someone in their job with higher ups telling them to do it differently, is just executive incompetence of the highest order. No well run organization does this. 

I've asked this about Stanford. Who the F is in charge?  The Giants' 30 owners are like Stanford's 30 Board members. It's just a totally incompetent and terrible organization decision making structure. No wonder they are both now flailing.

Nonsense.

The “terrible structure “ is no different than the one that brought  home 3 WS.  They have an Ownership Group. LLC, I believe.  It has a managing partner/Chairman, currently Greg Johnson.  Johnson family owns 27%.  The “principal owners”.  Not sure, of course, how the operating agreement reads, but I suspect the Chair can be voted out by some number of the shares held.  Bill Newcom was essentially pushed out. The Chair speaks for the group. 

Zaidi is in charge from a player operations perspective .  He made that clear.  He and Kapler were in lockstep.  Things devolved. You not only had players suggesting issues in the Clubhouse (same thing happened to Kapler in Philly) you also saw Zaidi reference that they played worst when it mattered most.  The AZ series being a great example. (I watched that series. Did you?  The difference in “energy” was palpable. Giants slept walked through their most important series of the year.)

Zaidi obviously has been told (and understands) ) that they need to tweak the “process” some. Good. Had to happen. Doesn’t mean Zaidi is  going to throw out analytics etc.  Does mean that they manager they hire will not be as analytics based.  Someone who can push back some.  More of a blend if you will. 

The Giants are a storied franchise, playing in a beautiful park in a great City.  They by no means are or will be “toxic” to FA’s. They signed 5 last year.  And had Correa in the fold.The bigger question is whether the farm system, which is appreciably better now than when FZ took over, develop not just serviceable ML players, but  “stars”. That is the question upon which Zaidis job hinges.

As for the manager, that’s easy.  He’s not going to sign a one-year deal. No one does that.  I suspect at least 3.  So, problem solved.

Something obviously changed within the ownership group, and it was probably priorities. You can't claim it's the same ownership as when they won 3 WS, and expect me to think that matters even a little bit, when I know the performance of the team since 2014.

As for the Arizona series, Arizona has better players who are more athletic. I didn't see the series, just the MLB highlights and reports, that demonstrated them running circles around the Giants on the bases. But I threw my chips down and said the Giants would basically fall out of contention in August, and they did. This "collapse" is not some revelation. You could see it coming from July if you weren't looking at things through orange and black lenses.

Yes, the Giants are toxic to Free Agents, and it's not just me saying it. I don't care if they signed 5 free agents last year. Of course they are going to sign some. I mean where were Pederson, Stripling, Conforto, Manea, and Haniger gonna get paid a buttload of money? And Correa is still a horrible millstone around their neck. They almost signed a guy to a payroll crushing deal with a bad health outlook.  Never should have even made him an offer if they ended up having to pull the plug on him as ham-fistedly as they did. And let's not get started with the Aaron Judge nonsense. I'm with Larry Larry Krueger, if anyone mentions "Ohtani" and Giants, they should be smacked. The Giants are not willing to spend the money it takes to sign the best free agents. Period. Yet Giants apologists insists "other reasons" are why they always miss on the guys they claim they are pursuing. I have news for you. The Giants pursue these guys to make suckers think they really care about winning. If they really did care, they would pay what it takes to win. This just in: MLB Free Agents sign the biggest contracts they can get. The Giants didn't offer Judge enough to land him, because they didn't get him. 

The apologists for the Giants should recognize how outnumbered they are. Or maybe you can illustrate this brilliant direction they are headed in and make a compelling case for why the guys they have basically identified as the problem are let go, and allowed to continue on.

Stop it with this farm system stuff. Patrick Bailey has a .7 WAR. Whooptee freaking do. You know has a 2.5 WAR? Mauricio Dubon, who wasn't good enough for the Giants. Every other hyped prospect has failed to live up to anything close to their hype. Matos is OK, but he's a -.5 WAR player and not a difference maker. The only one who hasn't solidified himself as yet another disappointment is Marco Luciano, and maybe Harrison. But they are never allowed to play either, so who knows what they will be if they actually got MLB ABs. But at this point, why should I have any belief he's gonna be a .800+ OPS guy at this point? 

Name one player that Farhan has turned into a stalwart winning player for the Giants over his tenure. Easily the best player developed over his time has been Logan Webb, but Webb wasn't drafted by him. 

The Orioles lost 110 games two years ago, but those same players playing together just won 100 games. and the toughest division in MLB. The Giants won 107 games two years ago and have what, exactly? A fired manager, a top personnel executive who has to be told to do his job better, the 17th best rookies in MLB, no star players and an ownership saying it won't spend into the luxury tax.

Nothing offered in defense of the Giants passes the smell test.

[OutsiderFan]

The Giants are a clown show. 

All season: Farhan and Gabe are returning

Tuesday: Logan Webb calls out the team culture

Thursday: Farhan goes on radio and backs down from his "Gabe is returning mantra"

Friday: Gabe is fired, Farhan makes comments that make clear it wasn't his idea to fire Gabe while claiming it was his decision, and then he says he needs to be open to different ideas.

As far as we know: Let's leave the guy in charge of all baseball decisions who brought us here.

Now let's bring in a manager who is on a short leash, because the guy who hires him can easily be removed next year, and be replaced by someone who won't have any allegiance to the guy???

Let's be clear, it's not just the issue of maybe being employed a year for potential manager candidates, it's that you have to uproot and move your family and home too. These decisions aren't made with one year horizons in mind.

The Giants are toxic to free agents right now. They are not exactly a well-oiled machine, and everything about them is mediocre.  They are a middling team by every meaningful measure, including into the farm system.

I've asked this before, I'll ask it again. What example is there of a coach/manager/GM getting a "vote of confidence" after having a poor record of performance that required such a statement, and then a turnaround happening? The only example I can think of is Brian Kelly at Notre Dame. Every other coach or GM who has ever been in the position Farhan finds himself in, has ultimately been replaced in short order because they never improved their performance.

The Giants don't know who they are or what they want to be. At least if you were all-in on Farhan, fans could disagree with and not like him or Gabe, but at least you know who is in charge, the Giants are hell bent on winning based on marginal matchup percentages, and he's being given autonomy to do what he wants so he can be fairly judged. Keeping someone in their job with higher ups telling them to do it differently, is just executive incompetence of the highest order. No well run organization does this. 

I've asked this about Stanford. Who the F is in charge?  The Giants' 30 owners are like Stanford's 30 Board members. It's just a totally incompetent and terrible organization decision making structure. No wonder they are both now flailing.

Nonsense.

The “terrible structure “ is no different than the one that brought  home 3 WS.  They have an Ownership Group. LLC, I believe.  It has a managing partner/Chairman, currently Greg Johnson.  Johnson family owns 27%.  The “principal owners”.  Not sure, of course, how the operating agreement reads, but I suspect the Chair can be voted out by some number of the shares held.  Bill Newcom was essentially pushed out. The Chair speaks for the group. 

Zaidi is in charge from a player operations perspective .  He made that clear.  He and Kapler were in lockstep.  Things devolved. You not only had players suggesting issues in the Clubhouse (same thing happened to Kapler in Philly) you also saw Zaidi reference that they played worst when it mattered most.  The AZ series being a great example. (I watched that series. Did you?  The difference in “energy” was palpable. Giants slept walked through their most important series of the year.)

Zaidi obviously has been told (and understands) ) that they need to tweak the “process” some. Good. Had to happen. Doesn’t mean Zaidi is  going to throw out analytics etc.  Does mean that they manager they hire will not be as analytics based.  Someone who can push back some.  More of a blend if you will. 

The Giants are a storied franchise, playing in a beautiful park in a great City.  They by no means are or will be “toxic” to FA’s. They signed 5 last year.  And had Correa in the fold.The bigger question is whether the farm system, which is appreciably better now than when FZ took over, develop not just serviceable ML players, but  “stars”. That is the question upon which Zaidis job hinges.

As for the manager, that’s easy.  He’s not going to sign a one-year deal. No one does that.  I suspect at least 3.  So, problem solved.

Something obviously changed within the ownership group, and it was probably priorities. You can't claim it's the same ownership as when they won 3 WS, and expect me to think that matters even a little bit, when I know the performance of the team since 2014.

As for the Arizona series, Arizona has better players who are more athletic. I didn't see the series, just the MLB highlights and reports, that demonstrated them running circles around the Giants on the bases. But I threw my chips down and said the Giants would basically fall out of contention in August, and they did. This "collapse" is not some revelation. You could see it coming from July if you weren't looking at things through orange and black lenses.

Yes, the Giants are toxic to Free Agents, and it's not just me saying it. I don't care if they signed 5 free agents last year. Of course they are going to sign some. I mean where were Pederson, Stripling, Conforto, Manea, and Haniger gonna get paid a buttload of money? And Correa is still a horrible millstone around their neck. They almost signed a guy to a payroll crushing deal with a bad health outlook.  Never should have even made him an offer if they ended up having to pull the plug on him as ham-fistedly as they did. And let's not get started with the Aaron Judge nonsense. I'm with Larry Larry Krueger, if anyone mentions "Ohtani" and Giants, they should be smacked. The Giants are not willing to spend the money it takes to sign the best free agents. Period. Yet Giants apologists insists "other reasons" are why they always miss on the guys they claim they are pursuing. I have news for you. The Giants pursue these guys to make suckers think they really care about winning. If they really did care, they would pay what it takes to win. This just in: MLB Free Agents sign the biggest contracts they can get. The Giants didn't offer Judge enough to land him, because they didn't get him. 

The apologists for the Giants should recognize how outnumbered they are. Or maybe you can illustrate this brilliant direction they are headed in and make a compelling case for why the guys they have basically identified as the problem are let go, and allowed to continue on.

Stop it with this farm system stuff. Patrick Bailey has a .7 WAR. Whooptee freaking do. You know has a 2.5 WAR? Mauricio Dubon, who wasn't good enough for the Giants. Every other hyped prospect has failed to live up to anything close to their hype. Matos is OK, but he's a -.5 WAR player and not a difference maker. The only one who hasn't solidified himself as yet another disappointment is Marco Luciano, and maybe Harrison. But they are never allowed to play either, so who knows what they will be if they actually got MLB ABs. But at this point, why should I have any belief he's gonna be a .800+ OPS guy at this point? 

Name one player that Farhan has turned into a stalwart winning player for the Giants over his tenure. Easily the best player developed over his time has been Logan Webb, but Webb wasn't drafted by him. 

The Orioles lost 110 games two years ago, but those same players playing together just won 100 games. and the toughest division in MLB. The Giants won 107 games two years ago and have what, exactly? A fired manager, a top personnel executive who has to be told to do his job better, the 17th best rookies in MLB, no star players and an ownership saying it won't spend into the luxury tax.

Nothing offered in defense of the Giants passes the smell test.