[cardcrimson]

Something obviously changed within the ownership group, and it was probably priorities. You can't claim it's the same ownership as when they won 3 WS, and expect me to think that matters even a little bit, when I know the performance of the team since 2014.

As for the Arizona series, Arizona has better players who are more athletic. I didn't see the series, just the MLB highlights and reports, that demonstrated them running circles around the Giants on the bases. But I threw my chips down and said the Giants would basically fall out of contention in August, and they did. This "collapse" is not some revelation. You could see it coming from July if you weren't looking at things through orange and black lenses.

Yes, the Giants are toxic to Free Agents, and it's not just me saying it. I don't care if they signed 5 free agents last year. Of course they are going to sign some. I mean where were Pederson, Stripling, Conforto, Manea, and Haniger gonna get paid a buttload of money? And Correa is still a horrible millstone around their neck. They almost signed a guy to a payroll crushing deal with a bad health outlook.  Never should have even made him an offer if they ended up having to pull the plug on him as ham-fistedly as they did. And let's not get started with the Aaron Judge nonsense. I'm with Larry Larry Krueger, if anyone mentions "Ohtani" and Giants, they should be smacked. The Giants are not willing to spend the money it takes to sign the best free agents. Period. Yet Giants apologists insists "other reasons" are why they always miss on the guys they claim they are pursuing. I have news for you. The Giants pursue these guys to make suckers think they really care about winning. If they really did care, they would pay what it takes to win. This just in: MLB Free Agents sign the biggest contracts they can get. The Giants didn't offer Judge enough to land him, because they didn't get him. 

The apologists for the Giants should recognize how outnumbered they are. Or maybe you can illustrate this brilliant direction they are headed in and make a compelling case for why the guys they have basically identified as the problem are let go, and allowed to continue on.

Stop it with this farm system stuff. Patrick Bailey has a .7 WAR. Whooptee freaking do. You know has a 2.5 WAR? Mauricio Dubon, who wasn't good enough for the Giants. Every other hyped prospect has failed to live up to anything close to their hype. Matos is OK, but he's a -.5 WAR player and not a difference maker. The only one who hasn't solidified himself as yet another disappointment is Marco Luciano, and maybe Harrison. But they are never allowed to play either, so who knows what they will be if they actually got MLB ABs. But at this point, why should I have any belief he's gonna be a .800+ OPS guy at this point? 

Name one player that Farhan has turned into a stalwart winning player for the Giants over his tenure. Easily the best player developed over his time has been Logan Webb, but Webb wasn't drafted by him. 

The Orioles lost 110 games two years ago, but those same players playing together just won 100 games. and the toughest division in MLB. The Giants won 107 games two years ago and have what, exactly? A fired manager, a top personnel executive who has to be told to do his job better, the 17th best rookies in MLB, no star players and an ownership saying it won't spend into the luxury tax.

Nothing offered in defense of the Giants passes the smell test.

Who's a Giants apologist? Who's defending them? Name one here that is. Can you? Or just more hyperbole. 

Plenty of blame to go around for a couple of average seasons. New aged renaissance men, or those who proclaim themselves to be, grate at me. Apparently they grate on baseball players, as well, as Kapler lost the clubhouse in Philly, and apparently never had it here. Coaches and managers get the most out of their players. Has anyone said that about Kapler the last two years? 

Regarding the farm system, wasn't someone on this site singing the praises of Matos and how he's the spark of the Giants offense and lamented his being sent down for a couple of days? You're now saying that he's only okay and not a difference maker. How do you square the two? Bailey, Luciano, Harrison (who was handled terribly by Kapler), Schmitt, Matos all have shown promise at this level. Not a ton of consistency yet, but perhaps that's on the staff. Still others with a lot of talent that are developing. Time will tell.

"Name one player that Farhan has turned into a stalwart winning player for the Giants over his tenure" is laughable. You do know that developing players is not in his job description. Do you want Farhan in the cages or the bullpen teaching? That's the responsibility of the coaching staff. IIRC, Kapler brought in a bunch of young analytical coaches on his staff. Doesn't appear that they have worked out. What's Farhan's responsibility? To replace a staff that isn't working.

The ownership went big on Judge and Correa, offered more to the first, and smartly bailed on the second. Why is that nonsense? I think you were incredibly critical of the ownership for the Correa fiasco at the time, and now calling ham-fisted. Why? How could management have known about his ankle--there are these pesky little HIPAA laws and all. They were willing to spend, but it didn't work out last year. 

I'm not a fan of Farhan and all the metric crap, but at this point in time, he's making the right decisions and the right statements. The farm system has some promise. I'm not close enough to know if he should stay (probably not), but the ship is listing and he's doing something pretty early on, unlike the guy in Palo Alto.

[cardcrimson]

Something obviously changed within the ownership group, and it was probably priorities. You can't claim it's the same ownership as when they won 3 WS, and expect me to think that matters even a little bit, when I know the performance of the team since 2014.

As for the Arizona series, Arizona has better players who are more athletic. I didn't see the series, just the MLB highlights and reports, that demonstrated them running circles around the Giants on the bases. But I threw my chips down and said the Giants would basically fall out of contention in August, and they did. This "collapse" is not some revelation. You could see it coming from July if you weren't looking at things through orange and black lenses.

Yes, the Giants are toxic to Free Agents, and it's not just me saying it. I don't care if they signed 5 free agents last year. Of course they are going to sign some. I mean where were Pederson, Stripling, Conforto, Manea, and Haniger gonna get paid a buttload of money? And Correa is still a horrible millstone around their neck. They almost signed a guy to a payroll crushing deal with a bad health outlook.  Never should have even made him an offer if they ended up having to pull the plug on him as ham-fistedly as they did. And let's not get started with the Aaron Judge nonsense. I'm with Larry Larry Krueger, if anyone mentions "Ohtani" and Giants, they should be smacked. The Giants are not willing to spend the money it takes to sign the best free agents. Period. Yet Giants apologists insists "other reasons" are why they always miss on the guys they claim they are pursuing. I have news for you. The Giants pursue these guys to make suckers think they really care about winning. If they really did care, they would pay what it takes to win. This just in: MLB Free Agents sign the biggest contracts they can get. The Giants didn't offer Judge enough to land him, because they didn't get him. 

The apologists for the Giants should recognize how outnumbered they are. Or maybe you can illustrate this brilliant direction they are headed in and make a compelling case for why the guys they have basically identified as the problem are let go, and allowed to continue on.

Stop it with this farm system stuff. Patrick Bailey has a .7 WAR. Whooptee freaking do. You know has a 2.5 WAR? Mauricio Dubon, who wasn't good enough for the Giants. Every other hyped prospect has failed to live up to anything close to their hype. Matos is OK, but he's a -.5 WAR player and not a difference maker. The only one who hasn't solidified himself as yet another disappointment is Marco Luciano, and maybe Harrison. But they are never allowed to play either, so who knows what they will be if they actually got MLB ABs. But at this point, why should I have any belief he's gonna be a .800+ OPS guy at this point? 

Name one player that Farhan has turned into a stalwart winning player for the Giants over his tenure. Easily the best player developed over his time has been Logan Webb, but Webb wasn't drafted by him. 

The Orioles lost 110 games two years ago, but those same players playing together just won 100 games. and the toughest division in MLB. The Giants won 107 games two years ago and have what, exactly? A fired manager, a top personnel executive who has to be told to do his job better, the 17th best rookies in MLB, no star players and an ownership saying it won't spend into the luxury tax.

Nothing offered in defense of the Giants passes the smell test.

Who's a Giants apologist? Who's defending them? Name one here that is. Can you? Or just more hyperbole. 

Plenty of blame to go around for a couple of average seasons. New aged renaissance men, or those who proclaim themselves to be, grate at me. Apparently they grate on baseball players, as well, as Kapler lost the clubhouse in Philly, and apparently never had it here. Coaches and managers get the most out of their players. Has anyone said that about Kapler the last two years? 

Regarding the farm system, wasn't someone on this site singing the praises of Matos and how he's the spark of the Giants offense and lamented his being sent down for a couple of days? You're now saying that he's only okay and not a difference maker. How do you square the two? Bailey, Luciano, Harrison (who was handled terribly by Kapler), Schmitt, Matos all have shown promise at this level. Not a ton of consistency yet, but perhaps that's on the staff. Still others with a lot of talent that are developing. Time will tell.

"Name one player that Farhan has turned into a stalwart winning player for the Giants over his tenure" is laughable. You do know that developing players is not in his job description. Do you want Farhan in the cages or the bullpen teaching? That's the responsibility of the coaching staff. IIRC, Kapler brought in a bunch of young analytical coaches on his staff. Doesn't appear that they have worked out. What's Farhan's responsibility? To replace a staff that isn't working.

The ownership went big on Judge and Correa, offered more to the first, and smartly bailed on the second. Why is that nonsense? I think you were incredibly critical of the ownership for the Correa fiasco at the time, and now calling ham-fisted. Why? How could management have known about his ankle--there are these pesky little HIPAA laws and all. They were willing to spend, but it didn't work out last year. 

I'm not a fan of Farhan and all the metric crap, but at this point in time, he's making the right decisions and the right statements. The farm system has some promise. I'm not close enough to know if he should stay (probably not), but the ship is listing and he's doing something pretty early on, unlike the guy in Palo Alto.