[OutsiderFan]

Speaking of no-win situations...
https://nypost.com/2023/10/13/balthazar-...rael-post/

This NY Post story certainly drives home the folly of picking sides, because no matter which one you take, castigation awaits. I've stated I think both sides are terrible, so nobody can accuse me of being pro-either side of this stupidness.

But, I agree with this McNally guy and never would have deleted my post that got such a hostile reaction. When people resort to seemingly dead end acts when they have nothing, it's an indicator of how desperate they are. When people who have reached the point they don't think they have anything to lose so much that they are willing to sacrifice themselves, it's time to listen to them and find out what it will take for them to stop being so desperate, or would have prevented them.

Mary Antoinette stood in her luxurious threads while the masses had nothing, said "let them eat cake." and motivated them to take her head off. Dismissing the most important concerns of others never ends well, especially when those being dismissed have nothing to lose. Those who have something to lose need to at minimum placate those who have nothing or they will have hell visited on them from people willing to give up their own lives to express their dissatisfaction.

It's frankly just as embarrassing to me as a human that so many people don't grasp these realities and insist one side is right, as it is to see the human failure epitomized by the Israel-Palestine conflict in the first place.

Rodney King said it right: "Can we all get along?"

I guess the question I would ask is what exactly do you think Israel should do?

In 2006 they tried to trade land for peace.  They gave Gaza to the Palestinians to self govern.  In return, all they have gotten is rockets and now this awful terror attack.

So in all honesty, what do you think  Israel should do?

FWIW, every time I ask this question I get some version of I don't know.  Maybe something about a two state solution.  But the Palestinians won't accept the 2 state solution.  They have been offered various versions of the two state solution for over 50 years and their answer is always war.

I mean, I too have pretty much the same answer. People far smarter and/or informed than me have tried and failed to resolve this situation for time immemorial. 

We have this very odd way of finding the behavior of people abhorrent but still allowing them to do abhorrent things under the guise of allowing them to make their own choices, no matter how many problems they create. If it were up to me, the world would unite to take out the likes of Putin. It would agree that Hamas should be eradicated and eradicate them.

Hamas is to Palestinians as Putin is to Russians. Bullies with their own agendas subjugating their people, to kill, destroy, and cause problems for the rest of the world, in the name of keeping their own power. I just don't understand how we allow this.

It's hard to imagine most Palestinians wouldn't want peace and the two state solution, but as long as Hamas and I guess Hezbollah are allowed to exist, it can't happen. I'm sure most Russians don't want Putin and would like free and fair elections. So it seems to me the best solution is to remove all the trouble making autocrats and oppressive regimes who stand in the way of peace. China is its own challenge, but I think it can be contained because it has become so dependent on GDP to placate the masses. It could get in real trouble pissing off the rest of the world.

Iran is interesting to me. I can't quite understand what its motivation is to create chaos with Israel. What does Iran lose if it doesn't have the "Israel is the enemy" foil?  Are its dictators afraid that if Israel isn't a threat, democratic forces will take root and overthrow them?  

I like addressing root causes of problems, not putting bandaids to them. And I don't think democratic countries should tolerate those who threaten and physically harm their neighbors. If they do, the lot of them should be willing to take them out. If we don't, we will always have them creating problems that are costly to deal with in multiple ways. But then if that happens and these threats are eliminated, the military industrial complex will get smaller, and we all know that can't happen. There's a lot of money to be made in death and destruction.

It's also clear that what we have been doing isn't working, so need to try different ideas.

[OutsiderFan]

Speaking of no-win situations...
https://nypost.com/2023/10/13/balthazar-...rael-post/

This NY Post story certainly drives home the folly of picking sides, because no matter which one you take, castigation awaits. I've stated I think both sides are terrible, so nobody can accuse me of being pro-either side of this stupidness.

But, I agree with this McNally guy and never would have deleted my post that got such a hostile reaction. When people resort to seemingly dead end acts when they have nothing, it's an indicator of how desperate they are. When people who have reached the point they don't think they have anything to lose so much that they are willing to sacrifice themselves, it's time to listen to them and find out what it will take for them to stop being so desperate, or would have prevented them.

Mary Antoinette stood in her luxurious threads while the masses had nothing, said "let them eat cake." and motivated them to take her head off. Dismissing the most important concerns of others never ends well, especially when those being dismissed have nothing to lose. Those who have something to lose need to at minimum placate those who have nothing or they will have hell visited on them from people willing to give up their own lives to express their dissatisfaction.

It's frankly just as embarrassing to me as a human that so many people don't grasp these realities and insist one side is right, as it is to see the human failure epitomized by the Israel-Palestine conflict in the first place.

Rodney King said it right: "Can we all get along?"

I guess the question I would ask is what exactly do you think Israel should do?

In 2006 they tried to trade land for peace.  They gave Gaza to the Palestinians to self govern.  In return, all they have gotten is rockets and now this awful terror attack.

So in all honesty, what do you think  Israel should do?

FWIW, every time I ask this question I get some version of I don't know.  Maybe something about a two state solution.  But the Palestinians won't accept the 2 state solution.  They have been offered various versions of the two state solution for over 50 years and their answer is always war.

I mean, I too have pretty much the same answer. People far smarter and/or informed than me have tried and failed to resolve this situation for time immemorial. 

We have this very odd way of finding the behavior of people abhorrent but still allowing them to do abhorrent things under the guise of allowing them to make their own choices, no matter how many problems they create. If it were up to me, the world would unite to take out the likes of Putin. It would agree that Hamas should be eradicated and eradicate them.

Hamas is to Palestinians as Putin is to Russians. Bullies with their own agendas subjugating their people, to kill, destroy, and cause problems for the rest of the world, in the name of keeping their own power. I just don't understand how we allow this.

It's hard to imagine most Palestinians wouldn't want peace and the two state solution, but as long as Hamas and I guess Hezbollah are allowed to exist, it can't happen. I'm sure most Russians don't want Putin and would like free and fair elections. So it seems to me the best solution is to remove all the trouble making autocrats and oppressive regimes who stand in the way of peace. China is its own challenge, but I think it can be contained because it has become so dependent on GDP to placate the masses. It could get in real trouble pissing off the rest of the world.

Iran is interesting to me. I can't quite understand what its motivation is to create chaos with Israel. What does Iran lose if it doesn't have the "Israel is the enemy" foil?  Are its dictators afraid that if Israel isn't a threat, democratic forces will take root and overthrow them?  

I like addressing root causes of problems, not putting bandaids to them. And I don't think democratic countries should tolerate those who threaten and physically harm their neighbors. If they do, the lot of them should be willing to take them out. If we don't, we will always have them creating problems that are costly to deal with in multiple ways. But then if that happens and these threats are eliminated, the military industrial complex will get smaller, and we all know that can't happen. There's a lot of money to be made in death and destruction.

It's also clear that what we have been doing isn't working, so need to try different ideas.