12-02-2015, 10:17 AM
“Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to Hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip." W. Churchill
Elway named Pac12 Offensive Player of the Century
“Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to Hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip." W. Churchill
“Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to Hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip." W. Churchill
12-02-2015, 10:31 AM
Aside from the various discussions on this board, I haven't been paying that much attention to this. Was this 100% fan vote? If so, that would explain this, kind of. I know Elway is great and all, and I'm proud that a Stanford player was chosen, but did he really have the best collegiate career of any offensive player in Pac-12 history?
Please clear the field! The game is not over!
Aside from the various discussions on this board, I haven't been paying that much attention to this. Was this 100% fan vote? If so, that would explain this, kind of. I know Elway is great and all, and I'm proud that a Stanford player was chosen, but did he really have the best collegiate career of any offensive player in Pac-12 history?
Please clear the field! The game is not over!
Redrum
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12-02-2015, 10:40 AM
Maybe the rating system was a mashup of some "effect on the program" and validation by obvious greatness after college.
Maybe the rating system was a mashup of some "effect on the program" and validation by obvious greatness after college.
12-02-2015, 11:12 AM
(12-02-2015, 10:31 AM)Hank 91 link Wrote:Was this 100% fan vote?
... did he really have the best collegiate career of any offensive player in Pac-12 history?
A different web site states the following:
Quote:An esteemed voting panel made up of 119 former players, coaches and media had the arduous task of selecting 24 offensive players (five QBs, five RBs, five WRs, two TEs, seven OLs), 23 defensive players (five DEs, five DTs, five LBs, four CBs, 4 Safeties), three special teamers (one K, one P, one R) and one coach to build out their team.
http://pac-12.com/article/2015/12/02/pac...ntury-team
Of the quarterback finalists, Elway had the best pro career, which is nominally irrelevant but probably not completely so in reality.
For overall offensive player, I am sort of surprised that they didn't name one of the Voldemort Trophy winners:
Terry Baker, OSU 1962 (QB) - not even on the list of QB finalists
Mike Garrett, U$C 1965 (HB)
Gary Beban, UCLA 1967 (QB)
OJ Simpson, U$C 1968 (HB) - surprisingly is on the all-century team
Jim Plunkett, Stanford 1970 (QB)
Charles White, U$C 1979 (RB)
Marcus Allen, U$C 1981 (RB)
Carson Palmer, U$C 2002 (QB)
Matt Leinart, U$C 2004 (QB)
Reggie Bush, U$C 2005 (RB) - vacated - and did make list of finalists
Marcus Mariota, Oregon, 2014 (QB)
Personally, I think Ernie Nevers got robbed.
(12-02-2015, 10:31 AM)Hank 91 link Wrote:Was this 100% fan vote?
... did he really have the best collegiate career of any offensive player in Pac-12 history?
A different web site states the following:
Quote:An esteemed voting panel made up of 119 former players, coaches and media had the arduous task of selecting 24 offensive players (five QBs, five RBs, five WRs, two TEs, seven OLs), 23 defensive players (five DEs, five DTs, five LBs, four CBs, 4 Safeties), three special teamers (one K, one P, one R) and one coach to build out their team.
http://pac-12.com/article/2015/12/02/pac...ntury-team
Of the quarterback finalists, Elway had the best pro career, which is nominally irrelevant but probably not completely so in reality.
For overall offensive player, I am sort of surprised that they didn't name one of the Voldemort Trophy winners:
Terry Baker, OSU 1962 (QB) - not even on the list of QB finalists
Mike Garrett, U$C 1965 (HB)
Gary Beban, UCLA 1967 (QB)
OJ Simpson, U$C 1968 (HB) - surprisingly is on the all-century team
Jim Plunkett, Stanford 1970 (QB)
Charles White, U$C 1979 (RB)
Marcus Allen, U$C 1981 (RB)
Carson Palmer, U$C 2002 (QB)
Matt Leinart, U$C 2004 (QB)
Reggie Bush, U$C 2005 (RB) - vacated - and did make list of finalists
Marcus Mariota, Oregon, 2014 (QB)
Personally, I think Ernie Nevers got robbed.
12-02-2015, 01:11 PM
(12-02-2015, 11:12 AM)CTcard link Wrote:[quote author=Hank 91 link=topic=13864.msg145249#msg145249 date=1449077507]
Was this 100% fan vote?
... did he really have the best collegiate career of any offensive player in Pac-12 history?
A different web site states the following:
Quote:An esteemed voting panel made up of 119 former players, coaches and media had the arduous task of selecting 24 offensive players (five QBs, five RBs, five WRs, two TEs, seven OLs), 23 defensive players (five DEs, five DTs, five LBs, four CBs, 4 Safeties), three special teamers (one K, one P, one R) and one coach to build out their team.
http://pac-12.com/article/2015/12/02/pac...ntury-team
Of the quarterback finalists, Elway had the best pro career, which is nominally irrelevant but probably not completely so in reality.
For overall offensive player, I am sort of surprised that they didn't name one of the Voldemort Trophy winners:
Terry Baker, OSU 1962 (QB) - not even on the list of QB finalists
Mike Garrett, U$C 1965 (HB)
Gary Beban, UCLA 1967 (QB)
OJ Simpson, U$C 1968 (HB) - surprisingly is on the all-century team
Jim Plunkett, Stanford 1970 (QB)
Charles White, U$C 1979 (RB)
Marcus Allen, U$C 1981 (RB)
Carson Palmer, U$C 2002 (QB)
Matt Leinart, U$C 2004 (QB)
Reggie Bush, U$C 2005 (RB) - vacated - and did make list of finalists
Marcus Mariota, Oregon, 2014 (QB)
Personally, I think Ernie Nevers got robbed.
[/quote]
Given inevitable recency bias I think it is a h.uge honor that they dredged Ernie up from the ancient past. Any other players from his vintage?
“Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to Hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip." W. Churchill
(12-02-2015, 11:12 AM)CTcard link Wrote:[quote author=Hank 91 link=topic=13864.msg145249#msg145249 date=1449077507]
Was this 100% fan vote?
... did he really have the best collegiate career of any offensive player in Pac-12 history?
A different web site states the following:
Quote:An esteemed voting panel made up of 119 former players, coaches and media had the arduous task of selecting 24 offensive players (five QBs, five RBs, five WRs, two TEs, seven OLs), 23 defensive players (five DEs, five DTs, five LBs, four CBs, 4 Safeties), three special teamers (one K, one P, one R) and one coach to build out their team.
http://pac-12.com/article/2015/12/02/pac...ntury-team
Of the quarterback finalists, Elway had the best pro career, which is nominally irrelevant but probably not completely so in reality.
For overall offensive player, I am sort of surprised that they didn't name one of the Voldemort Trophy winners:
Terry Baker, OSU 1962 (QB) - not even on the list of QB finalists
Mike Garrett, U$C 1965 (HB)
Gary Beban, UCLA 1967 (QB)
OJ Simpson, U$C 1968 (HB) - surprisingly is on the all-century team
Jim Plunkett, Stanford 1970 (QB)
Charles White, U$C 1979 (RB)
Marcus Allen, U$C 1981 (RB)
Carson Palmer, U$C 2002 (QB)
Matt Leinart, U$C 2004 (QB)
Reggie Bush, U$C 2005 (RB) - vacated - and did make list of finalists
Marcus Mariota, Oregon, 2014 (QB)
Personally, I think Ernie Nevers got robbed.
[/quote]
Given inevitable recency bias I think it is a h.uge honor that they dredged Ernie up from the ancient past. Any other players from his vintage?
“Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to Hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip." W. Churchill
12-02-2015, 02:45 PM
I think Elway is a deserving choice. As I posted recently, Elway was a two-time All American. He was a two-time Pac-10 player of the year. He finished second in the Voldemort voting. He set five NCAA records. He set nine Pac-10 records, including single season passing yards, career passing yards, single season TD passes, career TD passes, single season total offense, and career total offense. He clearly was one of the most accomplished players in conference history.
I think Elway is a deserving choice. As I posted recently, Elway was a two-time All American. He was a two-time Pac-10 player of the year. He finished second in the Voldemort voting. He set five NCAA records. He set nine Pac-10 records, including single season passing yards, career passing yards, single season TD passes, career TD passes, single season total offense, and career total offense. He clearly was one of the most accomplished players in conference history.
12-02-2015, 02:52 PM
Three of the nine QB finalists were Stanford QBs. Not bad.
“Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to Hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip." W. Churchill
12-02-2015, 03:36 PM
(12-02-2015, 02:52 PM)ferrari link Wrote:Three of the nine QB finalists were Stanford QBs. Not bad.
Also, three of the five QB's on the all-century team are Stanford QB's.
http://espn.go.com/blog/pac12/post/_/id/...ntury-team
BC
(12-02-2015, 02:52 PM)ferrari link Wrote:Three of the nine QB finalists were Stanford QBs. Not bad.
Also, three of the five QB's on the all-century team are Stanford QB's.
http://espn.go.com/blog/pac12/post/_/id/...ntury-team
BC
12-02-2015, 03:44 PM
(12-02-2015, 02:07 PM)garvin link Wrote:"Effect on the program"? During Elway's time on the team, we were 20-23-1 and when he left we had seven losing seasons in the following eight. I'm not saying that his fault, but it's hard for me to see him getting an award for his effect on the program under those circumstances. If any Stanford player of the second half of the 20th century deserves an award for effect on the program, it's Jim Plunkett, who brought it back from the dead.
The program had five consecutive non-losing seasons prior to Plunkett. They were 5-5 prior to his arrival, 6-3-1 his first year and 7-2-1 his junior year. Doesn't sound like it came back from the dead.
Audaces fortuna iuvat
(12-02-2015, 02:07 PM)garvin link Wrote:"Effect on the program"? During Elway's time on the team, we were 20-23-1 and when he left we had seven losing seasons in the following eight. I'm not saying that his fault, but it's hard for me to see him getting an award for his effect on the program under those circumstances. If any Stanford player of the second half of the 20th century deserves an award for effect on the program, it's Jim Plunkett, who brought it back from the dead.
The program had five consecutive non-losing seasons prior to Plunkett. They were 5-5 prior to his arrival, 6-3-1 his first year and 7-2-1 his junior year. Doesn't sound like it came back from the dead.
Audaces fortuna iuvat
12-02-2015, 04:00 PM
(12-02-2015, 03:44 PM)Mick link Wrote:[quote author=garvin link=topic=13864.msg145304#msg145304 date=1449090437]
"Effect on the program"? During Elway's time on the team, we were 20-23-1 and when he left we had seven losing seasons in the following eight. I'm not saying that his fault, but it's hard for me to see him getting an award for his effect on the program under those circumstances. If any Stanford player of the second half of the 20th century deserves an award for effect on the program, it's Jim Plunkett, who brought it back from the dead.
The program had five consecutive non-losing seasons prior to Plunkett. They were 5-5 prior to his arrival, 6-3-1 his first year and 7-2-1 his junior year. Doesn't sound like it came back from the dead.
[/quote]
I didn't read anything in the criteria about affect on program, just greatest player. While my sympathies will always be with Plunkett, he has been out of the non-Stanford public eye for many years, except Voldemort House commercials, while Elway's pro exploits are much more recent and his involvement with the Broncos keeps him in the conversation. A lot of voters probably weren't alive for Plunkett. I remain amazed that Nevers, great as I read he was, made the list of QB finalists.Â
“Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to Hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip." W. Churchill
(12-02-2015, 03:44 PM)Mick link Wrote:[quote author=garvin link=topic=13864.msg145304#msg145304 date=1449090437]
"Effect on the program"? During Elway's time on the team, we were 20-23-1 and when he left we had seven losing seasons in the following eight. I'm not saying that his fault, but it's hard for me to see him getting an award for his effect on the program under those circumstances. If any Stanford player of the second half of the 20th century deserves an award for effect on the program, it's Jim Plunkett, who brought it back from the dead.
The program had five consecutive non-losing seasons prior to Plunkett. They were 5-5 prior to his arrival, 6-3-1 his first year and 7-2-1 his junior year. Doesn't sound like it came back from the dead.
[/quote]
I didn't read anything in the criteria about affect on program, just greatest player. While my sympathies will always be with Plunkett, he has been out of the non-Stanford public eye for many years, except Voldemort House commercials, while Elway's pro exploits are much more recent and his involvement with the Broncos keeps him in the conversation. A lot of voters probably weren't alive for Plunkett. I remain amazed that Nevers, great as I read he was, made the list of QB finalists.Â
“Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to Hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip." W. Churchill
12-02-2015, 04:38 PM
From 1958 to 1968 and Plunkett we had that one winning season. We were dead
12-02-2015, 04:51 PM
(12-02-2015, 03:44 PM)Mick link Wrote:[quote author=garvin link=topic=13864.msg145304#msg145304 date=1449090437]
"Effect on the program"? During Elway's time on the team, we were 20-23-1 and when he left we had seven losing seasons in the following eight. I'm not saying that his fault, but it's hard for me to see him getting an award for his effect on the program under those circumstances. If any Stanford player of the second half of the 20th century deserves an award for effect on the program, it's Jim Plunkett, who brought it back from the dead.
The program had five consecutive non-losing seasons prior to Plunkett. They were 5-5 prior to his arrival, 6-3-1 his first year and 7-2-1 his junior year. Doesn't sound like it came back from the dead.
[/quote]
I watched the year before Plunkett. I think our QB was named Lewis? Played one game with his leg in a cast from the shotgun. Then we tried Gene Washington at QB. I probably have the names screwed up, but the first game I listened to as a Stanford student, on a sunny day on the Wilbut grass, from a transistor radio, was Washington State 48, Stanford 0. If you weren't there you will never realize how much we appreciated Plunkett. And will forever.
“Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to Hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip." W. Churchill
(12-02-2015, 03:44 PM)Mick link Wrote:[quote author=garvin link=topic=13864.msg145304#msg145304 date=1449090437]
"Effect on the program"? During Elway's time on the team, we were 20-23-1 and when he left we had seven losing seasons in the following eight. I'm not saying that his fault, but it's hard for me to see him getting an award for his effect on the program under those circumstances. If any Stanford player of the second half of the 20th century deserves an award for effect on the program, it's Jim Plunkett, who brought it back from the dead.
The program had five consecutive non-losing seasons prior to Plunkett. They were 5-5 prior to his arrival, 6-3-1 his first year and 7-2-1 his junior year. Doesn't sound like it came back from the dead.
[/quote]
I watched the year before Plunkett. I think our QB was named Lewis? Played one game with his leg in a cast from the shotgun. Then we tried Gene Washington at QB. I probably have the names screwed up, but the first game I listened to as a Stanford student, on a sunny day on the Wilbut grass, from a transistor radio, was Washington State 48, Stanford 0. If you weren't there you will never realize how much we appreciated Plunkett. And will forever.
“Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to Hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip." W. Churchill
12-02-2015, 05:08 PM
(12-02-2015, 04:38 PM)BobK link Wrote:From 1958 to 1968 and Plunkett we had that one winning season. We were dead
In the five seasons from 1958 to 1963, Stanford's football team was 17-43 (thanks Jack Curtice!). From 1964 to 1968, they didn't have a losing season, finishing 5-5 every year, except one year when they wen t6-3-1. I'm sorry, I just don't think 5-5 is a dead season. Mediocre, sure. But compared to 0-10 or 1-11, it's wounded, not dead.
Audaces fortuna iuvat
(12-02-2015, 04:38 PM)BobK link Wrote:From 1958 to 1968 and Plunkett we had that one winning season. We were dead
In the five seasons from 1958 to 1963, Stanford's football team was 17-43 (thanks Jack Curtice!). From 1964 to 1968, they didn't have a losing season, finishing 5-5 every year, except one year when they wen t6-3-1. I'm sorry, I just don't think 5-5 is a dead season. Mediocre, sure. But compared to 0-10 or 1-11, it's wounded, not dead.
Audaces fortuna iuvat
12-02-2015, 05:48 PM
Dave Lewis was the QB in about 1964/65 then a RB. Gene Washington the QB the first few games 1966 then to WR. Â
Mick very Wounded then. No one thinking Rose Bowl Until 1970. Â
Mick very Wounded then. No one thinking Rose Bowl Until 1970. Â
12-02-2015, 06:07 PM
(12-02-2015, 05:48 PM)BobK link Wrote:Dave Lewis was the QB in about 1964/65 then a RB. Gene Washington the QB the first few games 1966 then to WR. Â
Mick very Wounded then. No one thinking Rose Bowl Until 1970.Â
Sounds right. Surprised I dredged up Lewis :)
“Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to Hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip." W. Churchill
(12-02-2015, 05:48 PM)BobK link Wrote:Dave Lewis was the QB in about 1964/65 then a RB. Gene Washington the QB the first few games 1966 then to WR. Â
Mick very Wounded then. No one thinking Rose Bowl Until 1970.Â
Sounds right. Surprised I dredged up Lewis :)
“Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to Hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip." W. Churchill
12-02-2015, 06:48 PM
(12-02-2015, 05:48 PM)BobK link Wrote:Dave Lewis was the QB in about 1964/65 then a RB. Gene Washington the QB the first few games 1966 then to WR. Â
Mick very Wounded then. No one thinking Rose Bowl Until 1970.Â
Mark Marquess played QB in '66, too.
(12-02-2015, 05:48 PM)BobK link Wrote:Dave Lewis was the QB in about 1964/65 then a RB. Gene Washington the QB the first few games 1966 then to WR. Â
Mick very Wounded then. No one thinking Rose Bowl Until 1970.Â
Mark Marquess played QB in '66, too.
AncientCityIndian
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12-03-2015, 01:30 AM
Also MIA............John Ralston who beat hell out of McKay in his prime...................Jeff Siemon, Benny Barnes, Brad Muster
Also MIA............John Ralston who beat hell out of McKay in his prime...................Jeff Siemon, Benny Barnes, Brad Muster
12-03-2015, 08:04 AM
I was there for three of Elway's seasons, and while he obviously had to have a key set of supporting players, I've never seen a team where it was quite so much about one player. In every game, it was "I think Elway can do this."
I believe Stanford was ranked in a few of Elway's seasons at the beginning of the year and it was all unabashedly "Elway may be good enough to overcome Stanford's weaknesses".Â
If the question was -- what player did most fans think was capable of doing the most from an offensive standpoint during his career, I find it hard to believe that anyone is close to Elway.
If you were asked to draft a team and had every player in the century to choose from, who would you pick above Elway?
I believe Stanford was ranked in a few of Elway's seasons at the beginning of the year and it was all unabashedly "Elway may be good enough to overcome Stanford's weaknesses".Â
If the question was -- what player did most fans think was capable of doing the most from an offensive standpoint during his career, I find it hard to believe that anyone is close to Elway.
If you were asked to draft a team and had every player in the century to choose from, who would you pick above Elway?
I was there for three of Elway's seasons, and while he obviously had to have a key set of supporting players, I've never seen a team where it was quite so much about one player. In every game, it was "I think Elway can do this."
I believe Stanford was ranked in a few of Elway's seasons at the beginning of the year and it was all unabashedly "Elway may be good enough to overcome Stanford's weaknesses".Â
If the question was -- what player did most fans think was capable of doing the most from an offensive standpoint during his career, I find it hard to believe that anyone is close to Elway.
If you were asked to draft a team and had every player in the century to choose from, who would you pick above Elway?
I believe Stanford was ranked in a few of Elway's seasons at the beginning of the year and it was all unabashedly "Elway may be good enough to overcome Stanford's weaknesses".Â
If the question was -- what player did most fans think was capable of doing the most from an offensive standpoint during his career, I find it hard to believe that anyone is close to Elway.
If you were asked to draft a team and had every player in the century to choose from, who would you pick above Elway?
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