[SUBuddha]

This makes me wonder about security in places like the pep rally and the general tailgate.

Yvonne- I have mentioned this before, but I just retired from my second career in security. Last year my company was subcontracted for the Super Bowl. We went through the training from the primary contractor (Baltimore Ravens in house security) led by a young rah rah Tony Robbins type. Keep in mind many of my team leads are ex-military and or 20 year veterans of event security, personal protection and asset protection. We were told we would be trained to do the job at the highest level. "Not even a presidential visit is more secure than the Super Bowl" was their mantra.

After 30 minutes of the training it became clear that customer service and fan enjoyment superseded actual security. We were told not to use our palms on searches, only the back of our hands, do not check their shoes and never ever touch them between the waist and knees. My entire team was laughing at this point. To test their trainers 5 of us went through their pat down and the metal detectors without taking off our usual tools.

Their staff caught 1 knife out of all five of us (most carrying 3 or more blades), but missed all of the firearms and items on the prohibited list that my staff carries as a matter of course for large events. Keep in mind, when we work the contract dictates the tools we are allowed to carry, but for this training my staff was in civilian garb with the intention of going to the range to renew their state cards as armed guards after the morning Super Bowl training.

At the Super Bowl I ran one of the entrance gates for pat downs. I got cursed at by the NFL reps for not following their training. However, for me, crowd safety is more important than the NFL's rules.

The key to being safe is being aware of your surroundings. You cannot depend on other people to keep you safe. Christ I sound paranoid.

[SUBuddha]

This makes me wonder about security in places like the pep rally and the general tailgate.

Yvonne- I have mentioned this before, but I just retired from my second career in security. Last year my company was subcontracted for the Super Bowl. We went through the training from the primary contractor (Baltimore Ravens in house security) led by a young rah rah Tony Robbins type. Keep in mind many of my team leads are ex-military and or 20 year veterans of event security, personal protection and asset protection. We were told we would be trained to do the job at the highest level. "Not even a presidential visit is more secure than the Super Bowl" was their mantra.

After 30 minutes of the training it became clear that customer service and fan enjoyment superseded actual security. We were told not to use our palms on searches, only the back of our hands, do not check their shoes and never ever touch them between the waist and knees. My entire team was laughing at this point. To test their trainers 5 of us went through their pat down and the metal detectors without taking off our usual tools.

Their staff caught 1 knife out of all five of us (most carrying 3 or more blades), but missed all of the firearms and items on the prohibited list that my staff carries as a matter of course for large events. Keep in mind, when we work the contract dictates the tools we are allowed to carry, but for this training my staff was in civilian garb with the intention of going to the range to renew their state cards as armed guards after the morning Super Bowl training.

At the Super Bowl I ran one of the entrance gates for pat downs. I got cursed at by the NFL reps for not following their training. However, for me, crowd safety is more important than the NFL's rules.

The key to being safe is being aware of your surroundings. You cannot depend on other people to keep you safe. Christ I sound paranoid.

[OutsiderFan]

True, but I'm sure anyone going on You Tube to see those videos could get to "how to make bombs" in relatively short order.

[OutsiderFan]

True, but I'm sure anyone going on You Tube to see those videos could get to "how to make bombs" in relatively short order.

[BostonCard]

[quote author=Yvonne link=topic=14070.msg148422#msg148422 date=1450209376]
This makes me wonder about security in places like the pep rally and the general tailgate.

Yvonne- I have mentioned this before, but I just retired from my second career in security. Last year my company was subcontracted for the Super Bowl. We went through the training from the primary contractor (Baltimore Ravens in house security) led by a young rah rah Tony Robbins type. Keep in mind many of my team leads are ex-military and or 20 year veterans of event security, personal protection and asset protection. We were told we would be trained to do the job at the highest level. "Not even a presidential visit is more secure than the Super Bowl" was their mantra.

After 30 minutes of the training it became clear that customer service and fan enjoyment superseded actual security. We were told not to use our palms on searches, only the back of our hands, do not check their shoes and never ever touch them between the waist and knees. My entire team was laughing at this point. To test their trainers 5 of us went through their pat down and the metal detectors without taking off our usual tools.

Their staff caught 1 knife out of all five of us (most carrying 3 or more blades), but missed all of the firearms and items on the prohibited list that my staff carries as a matter of course for large events. Keep in mind, when we work the contract dictates the tools we are allowed to carry, but for this training my staff was in civilian garb with the intention of going to the range to renew their state cards as armed guards after the morning Super Bowl training.

At the Super Bowl I ran one of the entrance gates for pat downs. I got cursed at by the NFL reps for not following their training. However, for me, crowd safety is more important than the NFL's rules.

The key to being safe is being aware of your surroundings. You cannot depend on other people to keep you safe. Christ I sound paranoid.
[/quote]

Well, one of the Paris attackers was reportedly thwarted by sercurity outside of the stadium that was to be his intended target, so we'll call that a win.

All of this makes me wonder if someone intent on causing harm could cause more damage attacking the congregation that occurs outside a security line (think of the TSA line or the line that formed trying to get into the Conference Championship game at Levi's.

BC

[BostonCard]

[quote author=Yvonne link=topic=14070.msg148422#msg148422 date=1450209376]
This makes me wonder about security in places like the pep rally and the general tailgate.

Yvonne- I have mentioned this before, but I just retired from my second career in security. Last year my company was subcontracted for the Super Bowl. We went through the training from the primary contractor (Baltimore Ravens in house security) led by a young rah rah Tony Robbins type. Keep in mind many of my team leads are ex-military and or 20 year veterans of event security, personal protection and asset protection. We were told we would be trained to do the job at the highest level. "Not even a presidential visit is more secure than the Super Bowl" was their mantra.

After 30 minutes of the training it became clear that customer service and fan enjoyment superseded actual security. We were told not to use our palms on searches, only the back of our hands, do not check their shoes and never ever touch them between the waist and knees. My entire team was laughing at this point. To test their trainers 5 of us went through their pat down and the metal detectors without taking off our usual tools.

Their staff caught 1 knife out of all five of us (most carrying 3 or more blades), but missed all of the firearms and items on the prohibited list that my staff carries as a matter of course for large events. Keep in mind, when we work the contract dictates the tools we are allowed to carry, but for this training my staff was in civilian garb with the intention of going to the range to renew their state cards as armed guards after the morning Super Bowl training.

At the Super Bowl I ran one of the entrance gates for pat downs. I got cursed at by the NFL reps for not following their training. However, for me, crowd safety is more important than the NFL's rules.

The key to being safe is being aware of your surroundings. You cannot depend on other people to keep you safe. Christ I sound paranoid.
[/quote]

Well, one of the Paris attackers was reportedly thwarted by sercurity outside of the stadium that was to be his intended target, so we'll call that a win.

All of this makes me wonder if someone intent on causing harm could cause more damage attacking the congregation that occurs outside a security line (think of the TSA line or the line that formed trying to get into the Conference Championship game at Levi's.

BC

[stupac2]

All of this makes me wonder if someone intent on causing harm could cause more damage attacking the congregation that occurs outside a security line (think of the TSA line or the line that formed trying to get into the Conference Championship game at Levi's.

That's something I've been convinced of ever since the post-9/11 security theater started ramping up. But no one seems to go for it, probably something about you have to be a megalomaniacal sociopath to want to do something like that anyway, so you're going for more shock value than "people standing in line".

Anyway, it's best not to put too much thought into this since if someone wanted to there are tons and tons of opportunities where you could cause a lot of hard without a lot of effort, and for the most part the best protection is that people don't want to do it.

[stupac2]

All of this makes me wonder if someone intent on causing harm could cause more damage attacking the congregation that occurs outside a security line (think of the TSA line or the line that formed trying to get into the Conference Championship game at Levi's.

That's something I've been convinced of ever since the post-9/11 security theater started ramping up. But no one seems to go for it, probably something about you have to be a megalomaniacal sociopath to want to do something like that anyway, so you're going for more shock value than "people standing in line".

Anyway, it's best not to put too much thought into this since if someone wanted to there are tons and tons of opportunities where you could cause a lot of hard without a lot of effort, and for the most part the best protection is that people don't want to do it.

[yvonne]

It's now being investigated as a hoax, according to the Washington Post.

[yvonne]

It's now being investigated as a hoax, according to the Washington Post.

[82 Card]

Back in the 70's, bomb threats were somewhat common when it was time for exams. It's finals week in LAUSD. According to one report, the email was routed through Germany from closer to home. Perhaps the perp is from LA and through in NYC as a misdirect. In that case, the details in the LAUSD threat are likely to be more detailed and consistent with local lingo than the one sent to NYC. One of the clues used in discounting the NYC threat was failure to use correct lingo for the schools. We don't know yet whether the failure to capitalize a key word was also in the LAUSD message.

[82 Card]

Back in the 70's, bomb threats were somewhat common when it was time for exams. It's finals week in LAUSD. According to one report, the email was routed through Germany from closer to home. Perhaps the perp is from LA and through in NYC as a misdirect. In that case, the details in the LAUSD threat are likely to be more detailed and consistent with local lingo than the one sent to NYC. One of the clues used in discounting the NYC threat was failure to use correct lingo for the schools. We don't know yet whether the failure to capitalize a key word was also in the LAUSD message.

[M T]

[Sorry for the equivalent of saying "burned the barn and the shed up".  As I wrote it, it was obvious to me how it parsed, but obviously not to some readers.  Blame it on my learning German in high school.  If only I had an editor to proofread my submissions first....]

GORE WARNING:  Explicit content below.

Me too.  If he blew himself up how could there have been no trace?  He couldn't have simply vaporized.  Even the most gruesome suicide bombings leave a trace of the bomber.

"No trace" as in nothing they could identify as the bomber or even prove that the bomber had been blown up, at the time they locked down the other schools.  It wasn't like there was a body that they could point to and say "This guy must have been the bomber".  Immediately after the bombing, there was only "small body parts". One of the Texas Rangers on the scene wrote:
  "There was still one big problem: we weren’t sure that he was dead. There wasn’t a body, at least not one that was identifiable, and we were afraid that the bomber was still on the school grounds with another explosive."

From  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe_Elemen...ol_bombing
  "Very little of Orgeron was found. Only small body parts were recovered from the surrounding bushes, buildings and homes. Orgeron's left hand was found in a hedge indicating he had died in the blast. It was used to identify him through fingerprints which were on file from prior convictions."
(Actually there were two other body parts eventually found, one on the roof of a two story building across the street.  See the Texas Ranger dispatch above.)


There is a difference between erring on the side of caution and always choosing the cautious side.  A different moral of Aesop's fable is  "Some time there may be a wolf."


[As for the extra OT part of this OT thread, when he was a high school student, my high school history teacher lost his hand as a result of this blast from a hodgepodge mixture of chemicals which killed the person who put it together and then set the glass jar on a car hood on a sunny day.  He wanted to show it off to the then lab assistant (later my teacher).  It exploded as my teacher was walking toward it.  I expect many of us did dumb things with chemicals or fireworks, but only survivors are here. ]

[M T]

[Sorry for the equivalent of saying "burned the barn and the shed up".  As I wrote it, it was obvious to me how it parsed, but obviously not to some readers.  Blame it on my learning German in high school.  If only I had an editor to proofread my submissions first....]

GORE WARNING:  Explicit content below.

Me too.  If he blew himself up how could there have been no trace?  He couldn't have simply vaporized.  Even the most gruesome suicide bombings leave a trace of the bomber.

"No trace" as in nothing they could identify as the bomber or even prove that the bomber had been blown up, at the time they locked down the other schools.  It wasn't like there was a body that they could point to and say "This guy must have been the bomber".  Immediately after the bombing, there was only "small body parts". One of the Texas Rangers on the scene wrote:
  "There was still one big problem: we weren’t sure that he was dead. There wasn’t a body, at least not one that was identifiable, and we were afraid that the bomber was still on the school grounds with another explosive."

From  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe_Elemen...ol_bombing
  "Very little of Orgeron was found. Only small body parts were recovered from the surrounding bushes, buildings and homes. Orgeron's left hand was found in a hedge indicating he had died in the blast. It was used to identify him through fingerprints which were on file from prior convictions."
(Actually there were two other body parts eventually found, one on the roof of a two story building across the street.  See the Texas Ranger dispatch above.)


There is a difference between erring on the side of caution and always choosing the cautious side.  A different moral of Aesop's fable is  "Some time there may be a wolf."


[As for the extra OT part of this OT thread, when he was a high school student, my high school history teacher lost his hand as a result of this blast from a hodgepodge mixture of chemicals which killed the person who put it together and then set the glass jar on a car hood on a sunny day.  He wanted to show it off to the then lab assistant (later my teacher).  It exploded as my teacher was walking toward it.  I expect many of us did dumb things with chemicals or fireworks, but only survivors are here. ]