08-28-2016, 03:02 PM
Some of the comments in this thread provide a perfect illustration of why political discussions were banned.
OT: Colin Kaepernick
08-28-2016, 03:18 PM
(08-28-2016, 09:45 AM)Phogge link Wrote:I don't think there is a law re respect for the Anthem or for anything else. His right. Our right to call him a punk.
Yep.
If he chooses to sit during the anthem that's his right. I don't agree with it, but if he doesn't start focusing on his play he will keep on sitting on that bench for the 3+ hours after the Anthem too.
(08-28-2016, 09:45 AM)Phogge link Wrote:I don't think there is a law re respect for the Anthem or for anything else. His right. Our right to call him a punk.
Yep.
If he chooses to sit during the anthem that's his right. I don't agree with it, but if he doesn't start focusing on his play he will keep on sitting on that bench for the 3+ hours after the Anthem too.
08-28-2016, 03:40 PM
(08-28-2016, 03:02 PM)Roberton3 link Wrote:Some of the comments in this thread provide a perfect illustration of why political discussions were banned.
Really? Seems very civilized to me.
"It's not what you don't know that gets you in trouble. It's what you think you know that just isn't so."
Mark Twain
(08-28-2016, 03:02 PM)Roberton3 link Wrote:Some of the comments in this thread provide a perfect illustration of why political discussions were banned.
Really? Seems very civilized to me.
"It's not what you don't know that gets you in trouble. It's what you think you know that just isn't so."
Mark Twain
08-28-2016, 04:23 PM
Does anyone know why the national anthem is played before games? Is there any rationale other than tradition?
08-28-2016, 04:58 PM
The star spangled banner was first played during the seventh inning stretch of the World Series during World War I, but it was during World War II that it became standard for the anthem to be played before every contest. I assume that post-WW II teams were afraid of a backlash if they stopped playing the anthem. It's easy to imagine that in the cold war, "red scare" eras that followed WW II it would have been a very bad move for a team (or the entire sport) to appear unpatriotic. Imagine the public reaction today if the NFL announced that it would no longer play the anthem before games.
The star spangled banner was first played during the seventh inning stretch of the World Series during World War I, but it was during World War II that it became standard for the anthem to be played before every contest. I assume that post-WW II teams were afraid of a backlash if they stopped playing the anthem. It's easy to imagine that in the cold war, "red scare" eras that followed WW II it would have been a very bad move for a team (or the entire sport) to appear unpatriotic. Imagine the public reaction today if the NFL announced that it would no longer play the anthem before games.
08-28-2016, 06:56 PM
(08-28-2016, 01:53 PM)Red State link Wrote:It'll be interesting to see what kind of treatment he receives from the MSM and his fellow NFL players. Some dude named Tebow was mocked relentlessly for his pro-Christian beliefs, including opposing defenders who mimicked praying after sacking him. Somehow I don't think Kaepernick will be treated as harshly for his anti-America "stand".
I see a pretty big difference. Tebow didn't go around accusing others, he just said this is what I believe.
I think NFL fans are going to be pretty vicious with Krapernick next week, but it's not likely much will come after next week unless Gabbert gets injured
(08-28-2016, 01:53 PM)Red State link Wrote:It'll be interesting to see what kind of treatment he receives from the MSM and his fellow NFL players. Some dude named Tebow was mocked relentlessly for his pro-Christian beliefs, including opposing defenders who mimicked praying after sacking him. Somehow I don't think Kaepernick will be treated as harshly for his anti-America "stand".
I see a pretty big difference. Tebow didn't go around accusing others, he just said this is what I believe.
I think NFL fans are going to be pretty vicious with Krapernick next week, but it's not likely much will come after next week unless Gabbert gets injured
paloalto
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08-28-2016, 07:02 PM
There seems to be a herd mentality about protesting on some political issues the last few years. If he starts getting positive
reinforcement from political leaders, this might quickly expand. Â
reinforcement from political leaders, this might quickly expand. Â
There seems to be a herd mentality about protesting on some political issues the last few years. If he starts getting positive
reinforcement from political leaders, this might quickly expand. Â
reinforcement from political leaders, this might quickly expand. Â
08-28-2016, 07:08 PM
(08-28-2016, 06:56 PM)winflop link Wrote:[quote author=Red State link=topic=15509.msg168719#msg168719 date=1472417624]
It'll be interesting to see what kind of treatment he receives from the MSM and his fellow NFL players. Some dude named Tebow was mocked relentlessly for his pro-Christian beliefs, including opposing defenders who mimicked praying after sacking him. Somehow I don't think Kaepernick will be treated as harshly for his anti-America "stand".
I see a pretty big difference. Tebow didn't go around accusing others, he just said this is what I believe.
I think NFL fans are going to be pretty vicious with Krapernick next week, but it's not likely much will come after next week unless Gabbert gets injured
[/quote]
I disagree. Ostentatious religiosity is going around accusing others of being unholy.
(08-28-2016, 06:56 PM)winflop link Wrote:[quote author=Red State link=topic=15509.msg168719#msg168719 date=1472417624]
It'll be interesting to see what kind of treatment he receives from the MSM and his fellow NFL players. Some dude named Tebow was mocked relentlessly for his pro-Christian beliefs, including opposing defenders who mimicked praying after sacking him. Somehow I don't think Kaepernick will be treated as harshly for his anti-America "stand".
I see a pretty big difference. Tebow didn't go around accusing others, he just said this is what I believe.
I think NFL fans are going to be pretty vicious with Krapernick next week, but it's not likely much will come after next week unless Gabbert gets injured
[/quote]
I disagree. Ostentatious religiosity is going around accusing others of being unholy.
This might be sacrilegious, but I've always found playing the national anthem before sports games to be kind of silly and anachronistic. Perhaps it injects a moment of common civility before two teams try to bash each other to smithereens, but for me it just reminds me how high the stakes were back in the 1770/80s (and in the 1810s) and how utterly irrelevant the forthcoming football/basketball/etc. game is by comparison...
Edited to add: Interesting footnote is that our one and only Stanford alum cum President signed into law the act that made the Star-Spangled Banner our national anthem.
Edited to add: Interesting footnote is that our one and only Stanford alum cum President signed into law the act that made the Star-Spangled Banner our national anthem.
This might be sacrilegious, but I've always found playing the national anthem before sports games to be kind of silly and anachronistic. Perhaps it injects a moment of common civility before two teams try to bash each other to smithereens, but for me it just reminds me how high the stakes were back in the 1770/80s (and in the 1810s) and how utterly irrelevant the forthcoming football/basketball/etc. game is by comparison...
Edited to add: Interesting footnote is that our one and only Stanford alum cum President signed into law the act that made the Star-Spangled Banner our national anthem.
Edited to add: Interesting footnote is that our one and only Stanford alum cum President signed into law the act that made the Star-Spangled Banner our national anthem.
08-28-2016, 09:51 PM
If you look at sports as war games, all the anthem playing makes sense. It also explains why sitting for the anthem is a greater offense than displays of religiosity during games. Although both are annoying to many, as long as it's associated with the predominant religion, religiosity is seen as supporting war while sitting for the anthem is seen as treason.
If you look at sports as war games, all the anthem playing makes sense. It also explains why sitting for the anthem is a greater offense than displays of religiosity during games. Although both are annoying to many, as long as it's associated with the predominant religion, religiosity is seen as supporting war while sitting for the anthem is seen as treason.
08-29-2016, 05:47 AM
I think FrankO nailed it.
The U.S. government - which represents all people in the country - is represented by the stars and stripes flag. If the U.S. government had policies that were racist or prejudiced, like apartheid in South Africa for example, then Kaepernick's actions and the tie he's making to standing for the anthem, would make more sense.
In fact, the U.S. government has passed many laws and policies that are intended to curb or eliminate prejudice and preference by any number of measures, be it race, religion, gender, age, sexual orientation, or disability. The fact is most of the manifestations of mistreatment based on identity, happens on a local or state level. In this context provided by FrankO, taking issue with the United States government seems a bit misguided to me.Â
Then again, he's trying to call attention to a perceived injustice and there is no better way to get it than by doing what he has chosen to do. That said, if he's going to take an action sure to draw attention, he should have a prepared statement or an essay outlining his position, so he can actually harness the attention he's getting into delivering a well though out message. Producing a sound bite answer is not good enough. If you're going to take a stand on something that will draw so much attention, you better be able to articulate your position clearly.
Of course, I do think playing the national anthem at sports events is a bit ridiculous. It isn't played before concerts, award ceremonies or other gatherings. Why should it be at sports events? If you're not a sports fan, you might not ever hear the national anthem.
The U.S. government - which represents all people in the country - is represented by the stars and stripes flag. If the U.S. government had policies that were racist or prejudiced, like apartheid in South Africa for example, then Kaepernick's actions and the tie he's making to standing for the anthem, would make more sense.
In fact, the U.S. government has passed many laws and policies that are intended to curb or eliminate prejudice and preference by any number of measures, be it race, religion, gender, age, sexual orientation, or disability. The fact is most of the manifestations of mistreatment based on identity, happens on a local or state level. In this context provided by FrankO, taking issue with the United States government seems a bit misguided to me.Â
Then again, he's trying to call attention to a perceived injustice and there is no better way to get it than by doing what he has chosen to do. That said, if he's going to take an action sure to draw attention, he should have a prepared statement or an essay outlining his position, so he can actually harness the attention he's getting into delivering a well though out message. Producing a sound bite answer is not good enough. If you're going to take a stand on something that will draw so much attention, you better be able to articulate your position clearly.
Of course, I do think playing the national anthem at sports events is a bit ridiculous. It isn't played before concerts, award ceremonies or other gatherings. Why should it be at sports events? If you're not a sports fan, you might not ever hear the national anthem.
I think FrankO nailed it.
The U.S. government - which represents all people in the country - is represented by the stars and stripes flag. If the U.S. government had policies that were racist or prejudiced, like apartheid in South Africa for example, then Kaepernick's actions and the tie he's making to standing for the anthem, would make more sense.
In fact, the U.S. government has passed many laws and policies that are intended to curb or eliminate prejudice and preference by any number of measures, be it race, religion, gender, age, sexual orientation, or disability. The fact is most of the manifestations of mistreatment based on identity, happens on a local or state level. In this context provided by FrankO, taking issue with the United States government seems a bit misguided to me.Â
Then again, he's trying to call attention to a perceived injustice and there is no better way to get it than by doing what he has chosen to do. That said, if he's going to take an action sure to draw attention, he should have a prepared statement or an essay outlining his position, so he can actually harness the attention he's getting into delivering a well though out message. Producing a sound bite answer is not good enough. If you're going to take a stand on something that will draw so much attention, you better be able to articulate your position clearly.
Of course, I do think playing the national anthem at sports events is a bit ridiculous. It isn't played before concerts, award ceremonies or other gatherings. Why should it be at sports events? If you're not a sports fan, you might not ever hear the national anthem.
The U.S. government - which represents all people in the country - is represented by the stars and stripes flag. If the U.S. government had policies that were racist or prejudiced, like apartheid in South Africa for example, then Kaepernick's actions and the tie he's making to standing for the anthem, would make more sense.
In fact, the U.S. government has passed many laws and policies that are intended to curb or eliminate prejudice and preference by any number of measures, be it race, religion, gender, age, sexual orientation, or disability. The fact is most of the manifestations of mistreatment based on identity, happens on a local or state level. In this context provided by FrankO, taking issue with the United States government seems a bit misguided to me.Â
Then again, he's trying to call attention to a perceived injustice and there is no better way to get it than by doing what he has chosen to do. That said, if he's going to take an action sure to draw attention, he should have a prepared statement or an essay outlining his position, so he can actually harness the attention he's getting into delivering a well though out message. Producing a sound bite answer is not good enough. If you're going to take a stand on something that will draw so much attention, you better be able to articulate your position clearly.
Of course, I do think playing the national anthem at sports events is a bit ridiculous. It isn't played before concerts, award ceremonies or other gatherings. Why should it be at sports events? If you're not a sports fan, you might not ever hear the national anthem.
08-29-2016, 08:40 AM
(08-29-2016, 05:47 AM)OutsiderFan link Wrote:I think FrankO nailed it.
The U.S. government - which represents all people in the country - is represented by the stars and stripes flag. If the U.S. government had policies that were racist or prejudiced, like apartheid in South Africa for example, then Kaepernick's actions and the tie he's making to standing for the anthem, would make more sense.
In fact, the U.S. government has passed many laws and policies that are intended to curb or eliminate prejudice and preference by any number of measures, be it race, religion, gender, age, sexual orientation, or disability. The fact is most of the manifestations of mistreatment based on identity, happens on a local or state level. In this context provided by FrankO, taking issue with the United States government seems a bit misguided to me.Â
Then again, he's trying to call attention to a perceived injustice and there is no better way to get it than by doing what he has chosen to do. That said, if he's going to take an action sure to draw attention, he should have a prepared statement or an essay outlining his position, so he can actually harness the attention he's getting into delivering a well though out message. Producing a sound bite answer is not good enough. If you're going to take a stand on something that will draw so much attention, you better be able to articulate your position clearly.
Of course, I do think playing the national anthem at sports events is a bit ridiculous. It isn't played before concerts, award ceremonies or other gatherings. Why should it be at sports events? If you're not a sports fan, you might not ever hear the national anthem.
The US government is also composed of state governments, some of which are actively trying to curtail minority rights.
Also, I've never really understood why so many people confuse trends and levels. Is the US closer to equality than it's ever been? Sure, but it's not actually all that close, and if you disagree with that statement look at pretty much any statistic broken down by racial categories. There are some cities where infant mortality for black children approaches third world levels, while for white children it's at European levels. And people wonder why so many black people think the US doesn't value their lives...
(08-29-2016, 05:47 AM)OutsiderFan link Wrote:I think FrankO nailed it.
The U.S. government - which represents all people in the country - is represented by the stars and stripes flag. If the U.S. government had policies that were racist or prejudiced, like apartheid in South Africa for example, then Kaepernick's actions and the tie he's making to standing for the anthem, would make more sense.
In fact, the U.S. government has passed many laws and policies that are intended to curb or eliminate prejudice and preference by any number of measures, be it race, religion, gender, age, sexual orientation, or disability. The fact is most of the manifestations of mistreatment based on identity, happens on a local or state level. In this context provided by FrankO, taking issue with the United States government seems a bit misguided to me.Â
Then again, he's trying to call attention to a perceived injustice and there is no better way to get it than by doing what he has chosen to do. That said, if he's going to take an action sure to draw attention, he should have a prepared statement or an essay outlining his position, so he can actually harness the attention he's getting into delivering a well though out message. Producing a sound bite answer is not good enough. If you're going to take a stand on something that will draw so much attention, you better be able to articulate your position clearly.
Of course, I do think playing the national anthem at sports events is a bit ridiculous. It isn't played before concerts, award ceremonies or other gatherings. Why should it be at sports events? If you're not a sports fan, you might not ever hear the national anthem.
The US government is also composed of state governments, some of which are actively trying to curtail minority rights.
Also, I've never really understood why so many people confuse trends and levels. Is the US closer to equality than it's ever been? Sure, but it's not actually all that close, and if you disagree with that statement look at pretty much any statistic broken down by racial categories. There are some cities where infant mortality for black children approaches third world levels, while for white children it's at European levels. And people wonder why so many black people think the US doesn't value their lives...
08-29-2016, 12:37 PM
Question... was it my imagination or was this thread briefly locked. Not objecting... this one has the potential to go sideways in a hurry.
BC
BC
Question... was it my imagination or was this thread briefly locked. Not objecting... this one has the potential to go sideways in a hurry.
BC
BC
08-29-2016, 12:40 PM
I saw it locked this morning. I don't disagree with it being locked. I have some strong opinions about what's been said, but those opinions aren't productive (and neither are what's been said). Focus on the Stanford here...
08-29-2016, 12:46 PM
Well, since it is open, and this is tangentially related to Stanford, our former coach (and Kaepernick's former coach) weighs in:
http://www.cbssports.com/college-footbal...al-anthem/
BC
http://www.cbssports.com/college-footbal...al-anthem/
BC
Well, since it is open, and this is tangentially related to Stanford, our former coach (and Kaepernick's former coach) weighs in:
http://www.cbssports.com/college-footbal...al-anthem/
BC
http://www.cbssports.com/college-footbal...al-anthem/
BC
08-29-2016, 12:59 PM
A "team first" mentality is important at all levels, particularly the college level of football. A behavior not consistent with team first is a problem. In the NFL "me first" is more common than in college. This is one example of a "me first" behavior at the expense of a positive team culture.
Players performing at less than their potential and less than what the team needs and also demonstrating "me first" behavior should be culled. Or in the case of CK should be cut. It is in the best interest of the team.
Players performing at less than their potential and less than what the team needs and also demonstrating "me first" behavior should be culled. Or in the case of CK should be cut. It is in the best interest of the team.
A "team first" mentality is important at all levels, particularly the college level of football. A behavior not consistent with team first is a problem. In the NFL "me first" is more common than in college. This is one example of a "me first" behavior at the expense of a positive team culture.
Players performing at less than their potential and less than what the team needs and also demonstrating "me first" behavior should be culled. Or in the case of CK should be cut. It is in the best interest of the team.
Players performing at less than their potential and less than what the team needs and also demonstrating "me first" behavior should be culled. Or in the case of CK should be cut. It is in the best interest of the team.
08-29-2016, 01:03 PM
I'm going to withhold my opinion on Kaepernick's actions, but if he is cut, I will be very interested to see if another team signs him.
Ignoring the current controversy, based on his age and physical tools, I'd think he'd be a lock for job with another team. Now, I really don't know...
Ignoring the current controversy, based on his age and physical tools, I'd think he'd be a lock for job with another team. Now, I really don't know...
I'm going to withhold my opinion on Kaepernick's actions, but if he is cut, I will be very interested to see if another team signs him.
Ignoring the current controversy, based on his age and physical tools, I'd think he'd be a lock for job with another team. Now, I really don't know...
Ignoring the current controversy, based on his age and physical tools, I'd think he'd be a lock for job with another team. Now, I really don't know...
Dallas needs a quarterback but hard to imagine CK in Texas after this.
08-29-2016, 01:42 PM
I think even aside from the issues motivating Kaepernick's anthem boycott, a bigger issue is what the flag and anthem represent? When Stanford's football team runs out on the field carrying the American flag, what does it even mean? Is Stanford's team playing for the military? Setting an example all Americans can be proud of, by taking school and football equally seriously? Representing pride in their country in general? Something else? It's clear the flag and anthem have lots of meanings to lots of different people. I never thought of the military when anthems are played at Olympic medal ceremonies, but apparently some do.
The real problem is when people claim CK's disrespecting the military, even when he says he's got no beef with and respects the military. There are too many interpretations of the things involved to justify anyone having a strident position on this issue, no matter what it happens to be.
The real problem is when people claim CK's disrespecting the military, even when he says he's got no beef with and respects the military. There are too many interpretations of the things involved to justify anyone having a strident position on this issue, no matter what it happens to be.
I think even aside from the issues motivating Kaepernick's anthem boycott, a bigger issue is what the flag and anthem represent? When Stanford's football team runs out on the field carrying the American flag, what does it even mean? Is Stanford's team playing for the military? Setting an example all Americans can be proud of, by taking school and football equally seriously? Representing pride in their country in general? Something else? It's clear the flag and anthem have lots of meanings to lots of different people. I never thought of the military when anthems are played at Olympic medal ceremonies, but apparently some do.
The real problem is when people claim CK's disrespecting the military, even when he says he's got no beef with and respects the military. There are too many interpretations of the things involved to justify anyone having a strident position on this issue, no matter what it happens to be.
The real problem is when people claim CK's disrespecting the military, even when he says he's got no beef with and respects the military. There are too many interpretations of the things involved to justify anyone having a strident position on this issue, no matter what it happens to be.
08-29-2016, 01:43 PM
(08-29-2016, 01:20 PM)TreesAndBirds link Wrote:Dallas needs a quarterback but hard to imagine CK in Texas after this.
The Broncos also need a veteran backup now that Sanchez is apparently going to be cut.
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