[SF_Cardinal_Fan]

I have not been to Levis Stadium and do not plan on attending any event there. But, I have heard and read negative factors such as brutal sun exposure, lack of parking, few tailgating opportunities, traffic congestion in and out of the stadium etc...
To help finance the stadium's construction, potential season ticket holders purchased PSL's ranging from $6,000 to $80,000 per seat. As I understand it, those PSL's are now trading at  about 50% of their initial price. And the holders of those PSL's are obligated to purchase season tickets, which average about $200 face value but (for the 2016 season at least) went wanting on Stub Hub at $50.
So, the well meaning 49er fans who helped pay for the Santa Clara stadium have suffered a significant financial percentage loss.
And the stadium's inconvenient location, combined with its questionable design attributes, has made for low game day attendance. This likely creates a low energy, minimal crowd noise game day stadium atmosphere, providing the 49er players little home field advantage.
For nearly 20 years now the York's have been (justly) criticized for mismanaging the team. For the most part John York, and more recently his son Jed, appeared to be trying to focus more on the team's budget and bottom line profits than on hiring competent coaches or maintaining an exceptional roster of players.
Ironically, due to Jed's ineptitude, the 49ers now owe tens of millions of money to previously fired coaches Tomsula and Kelly.
And if the York's were to solicit offers for the sale of the team, I think Jed's Santa Clara stadium will be considered a "white elephant obligation" that a potential new owner would be reluctant to inherit.
Bill Walsh was the brains behind the 49ers team play success. Once Walsh stepped away the Debartolo and York moves have been penny wise but pound foolish.
Agree, disagree ?

[SF_Cardinal_Fan]

I have not been to Levis Stadium and do not plan on attending any event there. But, I have heard and read negative factors such as brutal sun exposure, lack of parking, few tailgating opportunities, traffic congestion in and out of the stadium etc...
To help finance the stadium's construction, potential season ticket holders purchased PSL's ranging from $6,000 to $80,000 per seat. As I understand it, those PSL's are now trading at  about 50% of their initial price. And the holders of those PSL's are obligated to purchase season tickets, which average about $200 face value but (for the 2016 season at least) went wanting on Stub Hub at $50.
So, the well meaning 49er fans who helped pay for the Santa Clara stadium have suffered a significant financial percentage loss.
And the stadium's inconvenient location, combined with its questionable design attributes, has made for low game day attendance. This likely creates a low energy, minimal crowd noise game day stadium atmosphere, providing the 49er players little home field advantage.
For nearly 20 years now the York's have been (justly) criticized for mismanaging the team. For the most part John York, and more recently his son Jed, appeared to be trying to focus more on the team's budget and bottom line profits than on hiring competent coaches or maintaining an exceptional roster of players.
Ironically, due to Jed's ineptitude, the 49ers now owe tens of millions of money to previously fired coaches Tomsula and Kelly.
And if the York's were to solicit offers for the sale of the team, I think Jed's Santa Clara stadium will be considered a "white elephant obligation" that a potential new owner would be reluctant to inherit.
Bill Walsh was the brains behind the 49ers team play success. Once Walsh stepped away the Debartolo and York moves have been penny wise but pound foolish.
Agree, disagree ?

[rudruff]

Stop with this already.

They built a stadium in California. That is something that 2 other longtime owners (Spanos, Davis families) were unable to do. As much as we all hate the product on the field they aren't going to sell the team. It goes up in value every year and stadium attendance matters less and less to their bottom line (television rights are a bigger driver).

Now they are a year or two away from being the only NFL franchise in a brobdingnagian media market full of wealthy people.

[rudruff]

Stop with this already.

They built a stadium in California. That is something that 2 other longtime owners (Spanos, Davis families) were unable to do. As much as we all hate the product on the field they aren't going to sell the team. It goes up in value every year and stadium attendance matters less and less to their bottom line (television rights are a bigger driver).

Now they are a year or two away from being the only NFL franchise in a brobdingnagian media market full of wealthy people.

[Phogge]

I've attended all the games plus the SB. Of course I'm getting paid to do so. As for egress from the Press Lot and the rest of the Green Lot it's better now than in the first season when it once took me 1.5 hours to reach 101N. Have no idea re the other lots.

Sight lines are generally good but the upper deck is a long way away. My SB camera position was at the top of the stadium. I wouldn't have paid a shilling to sit there. My regular position is on Level 4 West, just under the network broadcasting booth. It's the best angle for NFL Films Top Position in the league. Anybody sitting in the small Level 4 deck has a tremendous seat. The high rise East side is akin to the Sahara, the desert and not the hotel, in Sept/Oct. Just brutal heat and direct sun. Game 2 in 2014 had at least 75% of seat holders leave by halftime.

I'm a big fan of grit. Candlestick had it, Levi's doesn't. It's a country club and not a muni. Levi's is antiseptic and so are the people. Diversity nowhere near the levels in The City.

Bring your credit cards, everything is for sale.

[Phogge]

I've attended all the games plus the SB. Of course I'm getting paid to do so. As for egress from the Press Lot and the rest of the Green Lot it's better now than in the first season when it once took me 1.5 hours to reach 101N. Have no idea re the other lots.

Sight lines are generally good but the upper deck is a long way away. My SB camera position was at the top of the stadium. I wouldn't have paid a shilling to sit there. My regular position is on Level 4 West, just under the network broadcasting booth. It's the best angle for NFL Films Top Position in the league. Anybody sitting in the small Level 4 deck has a tremendous seat. The high rise East side is akin to the Sahara, the desert and not the hotel, in Sept/Oct. Just brutal heat and direct sun. Game 2 in 2014 had at least 75% of seat holders leave by halftime.

I'm a big fan of grit. Candlestick had it, Levi's doesn't. It's a country club and not a muni. Levi's is antiseptic and so are the people. Diversity nowhere near the levels in The City.

Bring your credit cards, everything is for sale.

[fullmetal]

I think most people agree that there was much to favor about the previous stadium compared to the new stadium.  But kvetching about the new stadium may only generate negative emotions without any hope of effecting positive action...sigh.  Just wait til the Raiders' new stadium turns out even more antiseptic than Levi's...

[fullmetal]

I think most people agree that there was much to favor about the previous stadium compared to the new stadium.  But kvetching about the new stadium may only generate negative emotions without any hope of effecting positive action...sigh.  Just wait til the Raiders' new stadium turns out even more antiseptic than Levi's...

[Leftcoast]

Nostalgia for the cement train wreck that was Candlestick - In the immortal words of Mortimer Snerd, "Who'd a thunk it?" I both sympathize and stand dumbfounded.

When it closed the Bay Area consensus was good riddance - ugly, classless and a bit of a two sport Frankenstein stadium that served both its sports poorly. Now? Football fans somehow miss it and baseball fans have never looked back.

Levi's is no AT&T.  On the other hand, are there any good examples of new football stadiums with character?

[Leftcoast]

Nostalgia for the cement train wreck that was Candlestick - In the immortal words of Mortimer Snerd, "Who'd a thunk it?" I both sympathize and stand dumbfounded.

When it closed the Bay Area consensus was good riddance - ugly, classless and a bit of a two sport Frankenstein stadium that served both its sports poorly. Now? Football fans somehow miss it and baseball fans have never looked back.

Levi's is no AT&T.  On the other hand, are there any good examples of new football stadiums with character?

[BobK]

Having attended some football and 400-500 baseball games at candlestick I can say a dump. 

Kinda neat when I was a teen year one. But a down grade from seals stadium.

The Yorks suck but today being $73m below the cap is the problem.  Profit before wins

[BobK]

Having attended some football and 400-500 baseball games at candlestick I can say a dump. 

Kinda neat when I was a teen year one. But a down grade from seals stadium.

The Yorks suck but today being $73m below the cap is the problem.  Profit before wins

[Robbie]

On the other hand, are there any good examples of new football stadiums with character?

CenturyLink (Seattle) is beloved. Built on the ashes of the KingDome.

[Robbie]

On the other hand, are there any good examples of new football stadiums with character?

CenturyLink (Seattle) is beloved. Built on the ashes of the KingDome.

[terry]

Good post, Phogge.

[terry]

Good post, Phogge.

[Stymie]

No hindrance to the 9ers, but Levis is a big hindrance to San Francisco remaining a world-class City.  Why was a 21st century stadium not built in the Park on top of the obsolescent Kezar?  Oops, sorry but I forgot that what was once called The City is now oblivious of and to the Real World.  I miss Herb Caen, tremendously.....

[Stymie]

No hindrance to the 9ers, but Levis is a big hindrance to San Francisco remaining a world-class City.  Why was a 21st century stadium not built in the Park on top of the obsolescent Kezar?  Oops, sorry but I forgot that what was once called The City is now oblivious of and to the Real World.  I miss Herb Caen, tremendously.....

[cctop]

Why was a 21st century stadium not built in the Park on top of the obsolescent Kezar?  Oops, sorry but I forgot that what was once called The City is now oblivious of and to the Real World.

Because SF voters -- me included -- repeatedly voted down building them a new stadium.  Look how well that has worked out for Oakland and for Santa Clara.

I would have been happy for the Niners to stay in SF, maybe even to have struck a tax deal for land out at Hunter's Point shipyard or Pier 70, but I'm not going to pay a dime for York to have a shiny new stadium.  The Giants didn't need taxpayer money.  The Warriors don't need taxpayer money.  The Niners didn't need it either.  It was pure greed that drove them south.

[cctop]

Why was a 21st century stadium not built in the Park on top of the obsolescent Kezar?  Oops, sorry but I forgot that what was once called The City is now oblivious of and to the Real World.

Because SF voters -- me included -- repeatedly voted down building them a new stadium.  Look how well that has worked out for Oakland and for Santa Clara.

I would have been happy for the Niners to stay in SF, maybe even to have struck a tax deal for land out at Hunter's Point shipyard or Pier 70, but I'm not going to pay a dime for York to have a shiny new stadium.  The Giants didn't need taxpayer money.  The Warriors don't need taxpayer money.  The Niners didn't need it either.  It was pure greed that drove them south.

[yvonne]

The 49ers and Candlestick represented what the Bay Area was. San Francisco was friendly, small, and quirky. San Jose was the heart of the Valley of Heart's Delight.

In the glory days, the 49ers were heroes who lived among us. Dwight Clark and Ronnie Lott owned restaurants in the area. Ronnie Lott owned the gym to which I belong. Joe and Jennifer — no last name needed — lived in Atherton, and were constantly in the news for normal family events, such as the birth of a child. And of course, Roger Craig appeared in local underwear ads. Ronnie Lott and Brent Jones still live in the South Bay. I ran into Jerry Rice at Stanford Shopping Center during the team's heyday, and have run into Jones several times at the Starbucks around the corner. Today, players' salaries enable them to live elsewhere in the offseason, flying in for practice and games. The salary cap and free agency make their stay here transitory.

Candlestick was working class, right off a working class neighborhood where the locals scalped tickets. The scalping was as much a part of that neighborhood's culture as the pastel houses were. All the lots were sloppy, just off the bay. A church offered gated parking along with available restrooms. Tickets, even during the 1980s, were affordable. I was able to share season tickets with friends, even though none of us had more than modest incomes.  The stadium was enclosed on all sides, creating a home field advantage. Crazy George was as quirky as the twin sisters.

Levi's is what the Bay Area has become. The financial base has shifted south. The Valley of the Heart's Delight has become Silicon Valley and its offices, not homes, now host the stadium. Ingress is as congested as 280 during rush hour. The building is nouveau riche, with charging stations and its own app. Luxury boxes no longer ring the stadium away from the view from regular seats, but sit in open sight between the levels, like Teslas in the front or corporate parking lots. Individual seats, like the fleeting salaries of the tech wealthy, are priced so that single games are a rare luxury. Even the food, which includes not just standard stadium, but both tortas and curries, represent a more diverse populace. The seats no longer engulf the playing field or hold in sound, which represents a reduced need for the plebeian home field crowd.

There is no going back.

[yvonne]

The 49ers and Candlestick represented what the Bay Area was. San Francisco was friendly, small, and quirky. San Jose was the heart of the Valley of Heart's Delight.

In the glory days, the 49ers were heroes who lived among us. Dwight Clark and Ronnie Lott owned restaurants in the area. Ronnie Lott owned the gym to which I belong. Joe and Jennifer — no last name needed — lived in Atherton, and were constantly in the news for normal family events, such as the birth of a child. And of course, Roger Craig appeared in local underwear ads. Ronnie Lott and Brent Jones still live in the South Bay. I ran into Jerry Rice at Stanford Shopping Center during the team's heyday, and have run into Jones several times at the Starbucks around the corner. Today, players' salaries enable them to live elsewhere in the offseason, flying in for practice and games. The salary cap and free agency make their stay here transitory.

Candlestick was working class, right off a working class neighborhood where the locals scalped tickets. The scalping was as much a part of that neighborhood's culture as the pastel houses were. All the lots were sloppy, just off the bay. A church offered gated parking along with available restrooms. Tickets, even during the 1980s, were affordable. I was able to share season tickets with friends, even though none of us had more than modest incomes.  The stadium was enclosed on all sides, creating a home field advantage. Crazy George was as quirky as the twin sisters.

Levi's is what the Bay Area has become. The financial base has shifted south. The Valley of the Heart's Delight has become Silicon Valley and its offices, not homes, now host the stadium. Ingress is as congested as 280 during rush hour. The building is nouveau riche, with charging stations and its own app. Luxury boxes no longer ring the stadium away from the view from regular seats, but sit in open sight between the levels, like Teslas in the front or corporate parking lots. Individual seats, like the fleeting salaries of the tech wealthy, are priced so that single games are a rare luxury. Even the food, which includes not just standard stadium, but both tortas and curries, represent a more diverse populace. The seats no longer engulf the playing field or hold in sound, which represents a reduced need for the plebeian home field crowd.

There is no going back.

[Phogge]

As kids we could walk to Kezar, a foggy trek to the big neighborhood stadium, clutching our Christopher Milk free tickets. It sat on the edge of GGP, the edge of the Haight and the edge of the Sunset (now called Inner Sunset). From the east EZ we could lob dirt clods and green hot dogs on top of Crazy Legs and Harlon Hill. They finally built a chicken wire fence over the tunnel entrance so we couldn't hit them with soda bottles. It didn't stop us from yelling, "St Clair, you stink," At Seals Stadium on a free bleacher Saturday afternoon we could hang on the short fence in RF and every so often Ted Beard or Al Lyons would come over and talk to us between innings.

There are still a few old things still going strong in The City. You can still get an ice cream soda at St. Francis Creamery on 24th. You can still wait in line at Mitchell's in St. Mary's Park, and you can still play nine at the beautiful course at the end of GGP. Joe's of Westlake is still there and going strong with new owners the Duggan's, and you can still have a couple of beers and a plate of pasta across from where Seal's stood at the Double Play. Park Rec hardball is gone, you can't spend hours in the Fun House, you can't swim in the world's largest pool and you can't accompany your mom to Townsend's, the Crystal Palace or Blum's. No Sutro, no Red Roof, no 622 Green Street, no Capp's Corner but you can still watch a HS hoops game at Kezar Pavillon on the same floor Bill Russell played on, you can still roll down 31st Avenue if you saved your Flexi and you can still sit on the same bench on Sunset Blvd. where you had your first real kiss.

It was a great time to be alive and a great City to be alive in.

[Phogge]

As kids we could walk to Kezar, a foggy trek to the big neighborhood stadium, clutching our Christopher Milk free tickets. It sat on the edge of GGP, the edge of the Haight and the edge of the Sunset (now called Inner Sunset). From the east EZ we could lob dirt clods and green hot dogs on top of Crazy Legs and Harlon Hill. They finally built a chicken wire fence over the tunnel entrance so we couldn't hit them with soda bottles. It didn't stop us from yelling, "St Clair, you stink," At Seals Stadium on a free bleacher Saturday afternoon we could hang on the short fence in RF and every so often Ted Beard or Al Lyons would come over and talk to us between innings.

There are still a few old things still going strong in The City. You can still get an ice cream soda at St. Francis Creamery on 24th. You can still wait in line at Mitchell's in St. Mary's Park, and you can still play nine at the beautiful course at the end of GGP. Joe's of Westlake is still there and going strong with new owners the Duggan's, and you can still have a couple of beers and a plate of pasta across from where Seal's stood at the Double Play. Park Rec hardball is gone, you can't spend hours in the Fun House, you can't swim in the world's largest pool and you can't accompany your mom to Townsend's, the Crystal Palace or Blum's. No Sutro, no Red Roof, no 622 Green Street, no Capp's Corner but you can still watch a HS hoops game at Kezar Pavillon on the same floor Bill Russell played on, you can still roll down 31st Avenue if you saved your Flexi and you can still sit on the same bench on Sunset Blvd. where you had your first real kiss.

It was a great time to be alive and a great City to be alive in.

[yvonne]

What's the name of the restaurant that serves you wine as you wait an hour or more for a seat?

[yvonne]

What's the name of the restaurant that serves you wine as you wait an hour or more for a seat?

[Phogge]

The Pacific Cafe did it (or still does it?), 34th and Geary. One block from #8 at Lincoln.

[Phogge]

The Pacific Cafe did it (or still does it?), 34th and Geary. One block from #8 at Lincoln.

[BobK]

Ah yes he goid old days.  But candlestick was never part of the good old days and except when right field was open to the bay.  Once they enclosed it, it was just stinky. 

Phogge and I almost knew each other in the good ole days.  Of course our team was the Seals.   

Please name one semiconductor fab in the late great Silicon Valley.     

[BobK]

Ah yes he goid old days.  But candlestick was never part of the good old days and except when right field was open to the bay.  Once they enclosed it, it was just stinky. 

Phogge and I almost knew each other in the good ole days.  Of course our team was the Seals.   

Please name one semiconductor fab in the late great Silicon Valley.     

[Mick]

Diversity nowhere near the levels in The City.

Which City are you referring to?  In the 2010 Census, 58.1% of SF's population self-identified as non-white compared to 63.9% self-identifying as non-white in the city of Santa Clara and 71.3% who identify as non-white in San Jose.

San Francisco is a comparatively white place relative to San Jose, Santa Clara or Oakland.  Or did you mean some other City?

[Mick]

Diversity nowhere near the levels in The City.

Which City are you referring to?  In the 2010 Census, 58.1% of SF's population self-identified as non-white compared to 63.9% self-identifying as non-white in the city of Santa Clara and 71.3% who identify as non-white in San Jose.

San Francisco is a comparatively white place relative to San Jose, Santa Clara or Oakland.  Or did you mean some other City?

[Mick]

Having attended some football and 400-500 baseball games at candlestick I can say a dump. 

Kinda neat when I was a teen year one. But a down grade from seals stadium.

The Yorks suck but today being $73m below the cap is the problem.  Profit before wins

That cap room is a direct result of years and years of bad Baalke drafts.  No long term contracts equals plenty of cap room.  Or figure it this way...they've signed sixteen free agents and they still have all that cap room.  Here's the cap table;

San Francisco 49ers Cap Totals 
  Adjusted Salary Cap
$204,883,035

Active Contracts:
$132,888,033

Dead Cap:
$13,121,526

Draft Pool Cap:
$10,999,235

2016 Rollover:
$38,708,916

Total (All):
$146,009,559

Total (Top 51+Pool):
$145,668,794

Total (Top 51):
$134,669,559

Est. Cap Space (All):
$58,873,476

Est. Cap Space (Top 51+Pool):
$59,214,241

Est. Cap Space (Top 51):
$70,213,476

[Mick]

Having attended some football and 400-500 baseball games at candlestick I can say a dump. 

Kinda neat when I was a teen year one. But a down grade from seals stadium.

The Yorks suck but today being $73m below the cap is the problem.  Profit before wins

That cap room is a direct result of years and years of bad Baalke drafts.  No long term contracts equals plenty of cap room.  Or figure it this way...they've signed sixteen free agents and they still have all that cap room.  Here's the cap table;

San Francisco 49ers Cap Totals 
  Adjusted Salary Cap
$204,883,035

Active Contracts:
$132,888,033

Dead Cap:
$13,121,526

Draft Pool Cap:
$10,999,235

2016 Rollover:
$38,708,916

Total (All):
$146,009,559

Total (Top 51+Pool):
$145,668,794

Total (Top 51):
$134,669,559

Est. Cap Space (All):
$58,873,476

Est. Cap Space (Top 51+Pool):
$59,214,241

Est. Cap Space (Top 51):
$70,213,476

[BostonCard]

[quote author=Phogge link=topic=16809.msg192022#msg192022 date=1492702272]
Diversity nowhere near the levels in The City.

Which City are you referring to?  In the 2010 Census, 58.1% of SF's population self-identified as non-white compared to 63.9% self-identifying as non-white in the city of Santa Clara and 71.3% who identify as non-white in San Jose.

San Francisco is a comparatively white place relative to San Jose, Santa Clara or Oakland.  Or did you mean some other City?
[/quote]

I think he was referring to diversity in the stadium (and not amongst the players).  While the city and whole Bay Area is reasonably diverse, I would imagine that 49ers ticket holders are not so much.

BC

[BostonCard]

[quote author=Phogge link=topic=16809.msg192022#msg192022 date=1492702272]
Diversity nowhere near the levels in The City.

Which City are you referring to?  In the 2010 Census, 58.1% of SF's population self-identified as non-white compared to 63.9% self-identifying as non-white in the city of Santa Clara and 71.3% who identify as non-white in San Jose.

San Francisco is a comparatively white place relative to San Jose, Santa Clara or Oakland.  Or did you mean some other City?
[/quote]

I think he was referring to diversity in the stadium (and not amongst the players).  While the city and whole Bay Area is reasonably diverse, I would imagine that 49ers ticket holders are not so much.

BC

[Mick]

[quote author=Mick link=topic=16809.msg192055#msg192055 date=1492729324]
[quote author=Phogge link=topic=16809.msg192022#msg192022 date=1492702272]
Diversity nowhere near the levels in The City.

Which City are you referring to?  In the 2010 Census, 58.1% of SF's population self-identified as non-white compared to 63.9% self-identifying as non-white in the city of Santa Clara and 71.3% who identify as non-white in San Jose.

San Francisco is a comparatively white place relative to San Jose, Santa Clara or Oakland.  Or did you mean some other City?
[/quote]

I think he was referring to diversity in the stadium (and not amongst the players).  While the city and whole Bay Area is reasonably diverse, I would imagine that 49ers ticket holders are not so much.

BC
[/quote]


I see.  Is there a demographic study comparing the two, or is it a seat of the pants thing?

[Mick]

[quote author=Mick link=topic=16809.msg192055#msg192055 date=1492729324]
[quote author=Phogge link=topic=16809.msg192022#msg192022 date=1492702272]
Diversity nowhere near the levels in The City.

Which City are you referring to?  In the 2010 Census, 58.1% of SF's population self-identified as non-white compared to 63.9% self-identifying as non-white in the city of Santa Clara and 71.3% who identify as non-white in San Jose.

San Francisco is a comparatively white place relative to San Jose, Santa Clara or Oakland.  Or did you mean some other City?
[/quote]

I think he was referring to diversity in the stadium (and not amongst the players).  While the city and whole Bay Area is reasonably diverse, I would imagine that 49ers ticket holders are not so much.

BC
[/quote]


I see.  Is there a demographic study comparing the two, or is it a seat of the pants thing?

[Stymie]

Please name one semiconductor fab in the late great Silicon Valley.   

Fairchild?  Bill Shockley's place.

...and to continue to humblebrag. one of my several paying jobs whilst at LSJU was doing quality control on CDs for AMPEX (one of my frat bro dads had a contract with them......)

[Stymie]

Please name one semiconductor fab in the late great Silicon Valley.   

Fairchild?  Bill Shockley's place.

...and to continue to humblebrag. one of my several paying jobs whilst at LSJU was doing quality control on CDs for AMPEX (one of my frat bro dads had a contract with them......)