12-01-2017, 09:48 PM
The DOG penalty inside the 5 killed us. Hate that. Hated that all season.
Pax et Bonum
Championship Game Thread
Pax et Bonum
The DOG penalty inside the 5 killed us. Hate that. Hated that all season.
Pax et Bonum
12-01-2017, 09:49 PM
(12-01-2017, 09:46 PM)jacketree link Wrote:Which is why Blackledge thought we should have kicked deep. Maybe hes right.
That sequence inside the 5 did it. And 99 yards.
No, hes not right. Possession matters much more than field position late in the game. Id take a 10% chance at recovery versus giving the ball up to a team that only has to gain one first down to ice it. How many three and outs did we force this game?
BC
(12-01-2017, 09:46 PM)jacketree link Wrote:Which is why Blackledge thought we should have kicked deep. Maybe hes right.
That sequence inside the 5 did it. And 99 yards.
No, hes not right. Possession matters much more than field position late in the game. Id take a 10% chance at recovery versus giving the ball up to a team that only has to gain one first down to ice it. How many three and outs did we force this game?
BC
12-01-2017, 09:50 PM
Carved up by receivers better than any DB's on the Stanford roster. Thought Meeks would be a playmaker this season but he was good not great. Reid really lost NFL points tonight. Exposed by speed. Absolutely need better OLB's and a partner for Okereke.
Got to throw more next year. Got the QB, got Smith and JJ. Get the Egyptian god next year. Throw it.
Hope they play Michigan. Great theatre.
Got to throw more next year. Got the QB, got Smith and JJ. Get the Egyptian god next year. Throw it.
Hope they play Michigan. Great theatre.
Carved up by receivers better than any DB's on the Stanford roster. Thought Meeks would be a playmaker this season but he was good not great. Reid really lost NFL points tonight. Exposed by speed. Absolutely need better OLB's and a partner for Okereke.
Got to throw more next year. Got the QB, got Smith and JJ. Get the Egyptian god next year. Throw it.
Hope they play Michigan. Great theatre.
Got to throw more next year. Got the QB, got Smith and JJ. Get the Egyptian god next year. Throw it.
Hope they play Michigan. Great theatre.
12-01-2017, 09:50 PM
(12-01-2017, 09:49 PM)Boston Card link Wrote:[quote author=jacketree link=topic=18246.msg216391#msg216391 date=1512189978]
Which is why Blackledge thought we should have kicked deep. Maybe hes right.
That sequence inside the 5 did it. And 99 yards.
No, hes not right. Possession matters much more than field position late in the game. Id take a 10% chance at recovery versus giving the ball up to a team that only has to gain one first down to ice it. How many three and outs did we force this game?
BC
[/quote]
Here's why he has a point. If we kicked deep, SC would never have gone for it on 4th. We would have gotten the ball back.
Free Phogge!!!! And no, crimson doesn't refer to the Tide.
(12-01-2017, 09:49 PM)Boston Card link Wrote:[quote author=jacketree link=topic=18246.msg216391#msg216391 date=1512189978]
Which is why Blackledge thought we should have kicked deep. Maybe hes right.
That sequence inside the 5 did it. And 99 yards.
No, hes not right. Possession matters much more than field position late in the game. Id take a 10% chance at recovery versus giving the ball up to a team that only has to gain one first down to ice it. How many three and outs did we force this game?
BC
[/quote]
Here's why he has a point. If we kicked deep, SC would never have gone for it on 4th. We would have gotten the ball back.
Free Phogge!!!! And no, crimson doesn't refer to the Tide.
12-01-2017, 09:51 PM
That blown call could just have easily been a pick six or recovered if their guy paid attention. Im not going to lose sleep over it.
And with a decent throw two plays later, Stanford has a first down anyway.
And with a decent throw two plays later, Stanford has a first down anyway.
Yeah, I just stare at my desk, but it looks like I'm working .I'd say in a given week I probably only do about fifteen minutes of real, actual, work. Peter Gibbons
That blown call could just have easily been a pick six or recovered if their guy paid attention. Im not going to lose sleep over it.
And with a decent throw two plays later, Stanford has a first down anyway.
And with a decent throw two plays later, Stanford has a first down anyway.
Yeah, I just stare at my desk, but it looks like I'm working .I'd say in a given week I probably only do about fifteen minutes of real, actual, work. Peter Gibbons
12-01-2017, 09:51 PM
Football never comes down to ONE play but I was furious when Shaw trotted the offense out there and 4th and goal.
Football never comes down to ONE play but I was furious when Shaw trotted the offense out there and 4th and goal.
12-01-2017, 09:52 PM
(12-01-2017, 09:48 PM)thunder_chik link Wrote:The DOG penalty inside the 5 killed us. Hate that. Hated that all season.
That wasnt really the killer. We wound up getting a first and goal two yards further behind because of the roughing. The problem was one that has plagued us all season long... we have no idea how to deal with the weak side rusher who largely comes in unblocked. Thats why weve used the toss play a bunch, but you cant do that at the goal line because of the risk for a loss (though on fourth and goal its not a bad idea).
BC
(12-01-2017, 09:48 PM)thunder_chik link Wrote:The DOG penalty inside the 5 killed us. Hate that. Hated that all season.
That wasnt really the killer. We wound up getting a first and goal two yards further behind because of the roughing. The problem was one that has plagued us all season long... we have no idea how to deal with the weak side rusher who largely comes in unblocked. Thats why weve used the toss play a bunch, but you cant do that at the goal line because of the risk for a loss (though on fourth and goal its not a bad idea).
BC
12-01-2017, 09:52 PM
Disappointing end but a good effort Stanford. Win the bowl game.
Class of '75
12-01-2017, 09:53 PM
(12-01-2017, 09:50 PM)Phogge link Wrote:Hope they play Michigan. Great theatre.
Support school or current residence. Dilemma :(
12-01-2017, 09:54 PM
Defensively, if Phillips leaves (which seems like a certainty), it will likely get worse next year. Which is bad, because it was buoyed by turnovers luck and (in actuality) wasn't much good. We saw what happened when the team had almost no turnovers and it was bad. That being said, DBs should be reinforced by healthy Holder plus growth from incumbents plus coming-off-redshirt Paulson Adebo. That's good. LBs should get better by continuity. Maybe Alfieri can eclipse Perez. Or maybe returning/healthy Barton does. You lose Kalambayi (which is a problem) and Tyler (which is ... not a problem), but Fox and Toohill should be fine. Robinson needs to start playing like the blue-chip recruit he was rated as.
DL is the problem. Pray for multiple miracles from Wade-Perry plus non-Phillips continuity.
Offensively, losing Love (which again seems like a certainty) is unfortunate but nearly everyone else is returning and therefore continuity is good. Stewart, who had a very poor year, will either improve greatly or be eclipsed. I wonder what this game would've been like with a healthy Little, who (presumably) would be slightly better than Hamilton and create a better RT option. The OL wasn't overwhelmed against SC but could be better. Anyway continuity helps. Aside from the Nall speculation, Scarlett and Speights should be adequate assuming the rest of the offense is good.
Special teams...well, as is and continuity should be good. Irwin (or I suppose Wedington) means improvement on punt returns as the Jay Tyler experiment was bizarre and held the team back through the half of 2017 that he played in.
Impact freshman... redshirting Wade-Perry, Adebo, Head, St. Brown ... we'll see who's incoming, but if Hollifield comes in he might make a difference. Maybe Michael Wilson and/or Simi Fehoko takes a receiving spot. While there are plenty of good receivers, there are also some obvious holes at receiver that can be upgraded by merely average replacements.
BTW Holiday Bowl v. Michigan isn't happening. A few reporters have said Michigan's heading to the Outback Bowl.
DL is the problem. Pray for multiple miracles from Wade-Perry plus non-Phillips continuity.
Offensively, losing Love (which again seems like a certainty) is unfortunate but nearly everyone else is returning and therefore continuity is good. Stewart, who had a very poor year, will either improve greatly or be eclipsed. I wonder what this game would've been like with a healthy Little, who (presumably) would be slightly better than Hamilton and create a better RT option. The OL wasn't overwhelmed against SC but could be better. Anyway continuity helps. Aside from the Nall speculation, Scarlett and Speights should be adequate assuming the rest of the offense is good.
Special teams...well, as is and continuity should be good. Irwin (or I suppose Wedington) means improvement on punt returns as the Jay Tyler experiment was bizarre and held the team back through the half of 2017 that he played in.
Impact freshman... redshirting Wade-Perry, Adebo, Head, St. Brown ... we'll see who's incoming, but if Hollifield comes in he might make a difference. Maybe Michael Wilson and/or Simi Fehoko takes a receiving spot. While there are plenty of good receivers, there are also some obvious holes at receiver that can be upgraded by merely average replacements.
BTW Holiday Bowl v. Michigan isn't happening. A few reporters have said Michigan's heading to the Outback Bowl.
Defensively, if Phillips leaves (which seems like a certainty), it will likely get worse next year. Which is bad, because it was buoyed by turnovers luck and (in actuality) wasn't much good. We saw what happened when the team had almost no turnovers and it was bad. That being said, DBs should be reinforced by healthy Holder plus growth from incumbents plus coming-off-redshirt Paulson Adebo. That's good. LBs should get better by continuity. Maybe Alfieri can eclipse Perez. Or maybe returning/healthy Barton does. You lose Kalambayi (which is a problem) and Tyler (which is ... not a problem), but Fox and Toohill should be fine. Robinson needs to start playing like the blue-chip recruit he was rated as.
DL is the problem. Pray for multiple miracles from Wade-Perry plus non-Phillips continuity.
Offensively, losing Love (which again seems like a certainty) is unfortunate but nearly everyone else is returning and therefore continuity is good. Stewart, who had a very poor year, will either improve greatly or be eclipsed. I wonder what this game would've been like with a healthy Little, who (presumably) would be slightly better than Hamilton and create a better RT option. The OL wasn't overwhelmed against SC but could be better. Anyway continuity helps. Aside from the Nall speculation, Scarlett and Speights should be adequate assuming the rest of the offense is good.
Special teams...well, as is and continuity should be good. Irwin (or I suppose Wedington) means improvement on punt returns as the Jay Tyler experiment was bizarre and held the team back through the half of 2017 that he played in.
Impact freshman... redshirting Wade-Perry, Adebo, Head, St. Brown ... we'll see who's incoming, but if Hollifield comes in he might make a difference. Maybe Michael Wilson and/or Simi Fehoko takes a receiving spot. While there are plenty of good receivers, there are also some obvious holes at receiver that can be upgraded by merely average replacements.
BTW Holiday Bowl v. Michigan isn't happening. A few reporters have said Michigan's heading to the Outback Bowl.
DL is the problem. Pray for multiple miracles from Wade-Perry plus non-Phillips continuity.
Offensively, losing Love (which again seems like a certainty) is unfortunate but nearly everyone else is returning and therefore continuity is good. Stewart, who had a very poor year, will either improve greatly or be eclipsed. I wonder what this game would've been like with a healthy Little, who (presumably) would be slightly better than Hamilton and create a better RT option. The OL wasn't overwhelmed against SC but could be better. Anyway continuity helps. Aside from the Nall speculation, Scarlett and Speights should be adequate assuming the rest of the offense is good.
Special teams...well, as is and continuity should be good. Irwin (or I suppose Wedington) means improvement on punt returns as the Jay Tyler experiment was bizarre and held the team back through the half of 2017 that he played in.
Impact freshman... redshirting Wade-Perry, Adebo, Head, St. Brown ... we'll see who's incoming, but if Hollifield comes in he might make a difference. Maybe Michael Wilson and/or Simi Fehoko takes a receiving spot. While there are plenty of good receivers, there are also some obvious holes at receiver that can be upgraded by merely average replacements.
BTW Holiday Bowl v. Michigan isn't happening. A few reporters have said Michigan's heading to the Outback Bowl.
12-01-2017, 09:55 PM
I was fine with him going for it. But not the call. 4 runs up the gut from the 6. Just one bootleg.
I defend Shaw. Hes earned that. But I cant defend that sequence.
They played their butts off. SC is a better team. But they had a great chance tonight.
I appreciate so much the resiliency and toughness. This was a tough loss.
I defend Shaw. Hes earned that. But I cant defend that sequence.
They played their butts off. SC is a better team. But they had a great chance tonight.
I appreciate so much the resiliency and toughness. This was a tough loss.
(12-01-2017, 09:51 PM)ThePOC link Wrote:Football never comes down to ONE play but I was furious when Shaw trotted the offense out there and 4th and goal.
I was fine with him going for it. But not the call. 4 runs up the gut from the 6. Just one bootleg.
I defend Shaw. Hes earned that. But I cant defend that sequence.
They played their butts off. SC is a better team. But they had a great chance tonight.
I appreciate so much the resiliency and toughness. This was a tough loss.
I defend Shaw. Hes earned that. But I cant defend that sequence.
They played their butts off. SC is a better team. But they had a great chance tonight.
I appreciate so much the resiliency and toughness. This was a tough loss.
(12-01-2017, 09:51 PM)ThePOC link Wrote:Football never comes down to ONE play but I was furious when Shaw trotted the offense out there and 4th and goal.
12-01-2017, 09:55 PM
(12-01-2017, 09:51 PM)ThePOC link Wrote:Football never comes down to ONE play but I was furious when Shaw trotted the offense out there and 4th and goal.
Poor Shaw, he gets skewered for going conservative; and he gets skewered for being aggressive. Going for the TD was absolutely the right call. The probability of making a TD is much higher than 50%. And had we kicked we only would have gotten a tie in the end... I dont know that I would have liked our chances in ot.
BC
(12-01-2017, 09:51 PM)ThePOC link Wrote:Football never comes down to ONE play but I was furious when Shaw trotted the offense out there and 4th and goal.
Poor Shaw, he gets skewered for going conservative; and he gets skewered for being aggressive. Going for the TD was absolutely the right call. The probability of making a TD is much higher than 50%. And had we kicked we only would have gotten a tie in the end... I dont know that I would have liked our chances in ot.
BC
12-01-2017, 09:56 PM
Tough to say the officials cost us a game when our defense gave up long, long drives.
That said, the backward pass hurt us. Yards, a timeout, and the inability to challenge the non-TD. Speights (?) didn't seem to be down.
That said, the backward pass hurt us. Yards, a timeout, and the inability to challenge the non-TD. Speights (?) didn't seem to be down.
Free Phogge!!!! And no, crimson doesn't refer to the Tide.
Tough to say the officials cost us a game when our defense gave up long, long drives.
That said, the backward pass hurt us. Yards, a timeout, and the inability to challenge the non-TD. Speights (?) didn't seem to be down.
That said, the backward pass hurt us. Yards, a timeout, and the inability to challenge the non-TD. Speights (?) didn't seem to be down.
Free Phogge!!!! And no, crimson doesn't refer to the Tide.
12-01-2017, 09:56 PM
It was a 3-point game, there are probably 20 different plays you can point to and say "what if?"
But based on ESPN's graphic after the onside kick the ypp differential was 2.0 in USC's favor. It's a minor miracle that we were still in it. It's just frustrating and sad that we lost in basically the same way as the earlier game, we just couldn't stop their offense.
But based on ESPN's graphic after the onside kick the ypp differential was 2.0 in USC's favor. It's a minor miracle that we were still in it. It's just frustrating and sad that we lost in basically the same way as the earlier game, we just couldn't stop their offense.
It was a 3-point game, there are probably 20 different plays you can point to and say "what if?"
But based on ESPN's graphic after the onside kick the ypp differential was 2.0 in USC's favor. It's a minor miracle that we were still in it. It's just frustrating and sad that we lost in basically the same way as the earlier game, we just couldn't stop their offense.
But based on ESPN's graphic after the onside kick the ypp differential was 2.0 in USC's favor. It's a minor miracle that we were still in it. It's just frustrating and sad that we lost in basically the same way as the earlier game, we just couldn't stop their offense.
12-01-2017, 09:57 PM
(12-01-2017, 09:52 PM)Boston Card link Wrote:[quote author=thunder_chik link=topic=18246.msg216395#msg216395 date=1512190102]
The DOG penalty inside the 5 killed us. Hate that. Hated that all season.
That wasnt really the killer. We wound up getting a first and goal two yards further behind because of the roughing. The problem was one that has plagued us all season long... we have no idea how to deal with the weak side rusher who largely comes in unblocked. Thats why weve used the toss play a bunch, but you cant do that at the goal line because of the risk for a loss (though on fourth and goal its not a bad idea).
BC
[/quote]
The mistake was on third down. With two yards to go, shouldve run a play out of a more conventional formation. This has bugged me for years when SVG runs a jumbo with >1 yard to go. SC has had quite a bit of success against us in those situations - even in the year we beat them twice (2015).
(12-01-2017, 09:52 PM)Boston Card link Wrote:[quote author=thunder_chik link=topic=18246.msg216395#msg216395 date=1512190102]
The DOG penalty inside the 5 killed us. Hate that. Hated that all season.
That wasnt really the killer. We wound up getting a first and goal two yards further behind because of the roughing. The problem was one that has plagued us all season long... we have no idea how to deal with the weak side rusher who largely comes in unblocked. Thats why weve used the toss play a bunch, but you cant do that at the goal line because of the risk for a loss (though on fourth and goal its not a bad idea).
BC
[/quote]
The mistake was on third down. With two yards to go, shouldve run a play out of a more conventional formation. This has bugged me for years when SVG runs a jumbo with >1 yard to go. SC has had quite a bit of success against us in those situations - even in the year we beat them twice (2015).
12-01-2017, 09:58 PM
(12-01-2017, 09:55 PM)Boston Card link Wrote:[quote author=ThePOC link=topic=18246.msg216400#msg216400 date=1512190291]
Football never comes down to ONE play but I was furious when Shaw trotted the offense out there and 4th and goal.
Poor Shaw, he gets skewered for going conservative; and he gets skewered for being aggressive. Going for the TD was absolutely the right call. The probability of making a TD is much higher than 50%. And had we kicked we only would have gotten a tie in the end... I dont know that I would have liked our chances in ot.
BC
[/quote]
Going for it was the right call. Great play by the edge rusher. Still think we scored there though.
Free Phogge!!!! And no, crimson doesn't refer to the Tide.
(12-01-2017, 09:55 PM)Boston Card link Wrote:[quote author=ThePOC link=topic=18246.msg216400#msg216400 date=1512190291]
Football never comes down to ONE play but I was furious when Shaw trotted the offense out there and 4th and goal.
Poor Shaw, he gets skewered for going conservative; and he gets skewered for being aggressive. Going for the TD was absolutely the right call. The probability of making a TD is much higher than 50%. And had we kicked we only would have gotten a tie in the end... I dont know that I would have liked our chances in ot.
BC
[/quote]
Going for it was the right call. Great play by the edge rusher. Still think we scored there though.
Free Phogge!!!! And no, crimson doesn't refer to the Tide.
12-01-2017, 09:59 PM
Holiday Bowl needs to happen. My son has a house in San Clemente. Pretty sure there is beer in the fridge.
Hope Costellos thumb doesnt pull a Luck Sun Bowl.ð¤¨
Wont be mad at all if Love sits out the bowl.
Hope Costellos thumb doesnt pull a Luck Sun Bowl.ð¤¨
Wont be mad at all if Love sits out the bowl.
Yeah, I just stare at my desk, but it looks like I'm working .I'd say in a given week I probably only do about fifteen minutes of real, actual, work. Peter Gibbons
Holiday Bowl needs to happen. My son has a house in San Clemente. Pretty sure there is beer in the fridge.
Hope Costellos thumb doesnt pull a Luck Sun Bowl.ð¤¨
Wont be mad at all if Love sits out the bowl.
Hope Costellos thumb doesnt pull a Luck Sun Bowl.ð¤¨
Wont be mad at all if Love sits out the bowl.
Yeah, I just stare at my desk, but it looks like I'm working .I'd say in a given week I probably only do about fifteen minutes of real, actual, work. Peter Gibbons
12-01-2017, 10:00 PM
The way to deal with that weak side backer in short yardage is to keep him honest and make him stay home. Fake and boot with a TE drag. I think Costello would have walked in. Sigh.
12-01-2017, 10:02 PM
(12-01-2017, 10:00 PM)lex24 link Wrote:The way to deal with that weak side backer in short yardage is to keep him honest and make him stay home. Fake and boot with a TE drag. I think Costello would have walked in. Sigh.+1
Free Phogge!!!! And no, crimson doesn't refer to the Tide.
(12-01-2017, 10:00 PM)lex24 link Wrote:The way to deal with that weak side backer in short yardage is to keep him honest and make him stay home. Fake and boot with a TE drag. I think Costello would have walked in. Sigh.+1
Free Phogge!!!! And no, crimson doesn't refer to the Tide.
12-01-2017, 10:03 PM
(12-01-2017, 10:00 PM)lex24 link Wrote:The way to deal with that weak side backer in short yardage is to keep him honest and make him stay home. Fake and boot with a TE drag. I think Costello would have walked in. Sigh.
Didnt we basically do that on the 3rd and half yard when Marx held? Sometimes, this stuff just comes down to execution.
My bigger issue was with the 3rd down call.
Oh well!
(12-01-2017, 10:00 PM)lex24 link Wrote:The way to deal with that weak side backer in short yardage is to keep him honest and make him stay home. Fake and boot with a TE drag. I think Costello would have walked in. Sigh.
Didnt we basically do that on the 3rd and half yard when Marx held? Sometimes, this stuff just comes down to execution.
My bigger issue was with the 3rd down call.
Oh well!
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