12-09-2017, 07:03 PM
Somehow Stanford has to use that as a marketing tool
5 in 9 years
12-09-2017, 07:13 PM
Clearly, character matters not.
At least Mayfield's on field performance was worthy, unlike some of the other winners with Stanford players as groomsmen.
At least Mayfield's on field performance was worthy, unlike some of the other winners with Stanford players as groomsmen.
Free Phogge!!!! And no, crimson doesn't refer to the Tide.
Clearly, character matters not.
At least Mayfield's on field performance was worthy, unlike some of the other winners with Stanford players as groomsmen.
At least Mayfield's on field performance was worthy, unlike some of the other winners with Stanford players as groomsmen.
Free Phogge!!!! And no, crimson doesn't refer to the Tide.
12-09-2017, 09:36 PM
(12-09-2017, 07:13 PM)cardcrimson link Wrote:Clearly, character matters not.
At least Mayfield's on field performance was worthy, unlike some of the other winners with Stanford players as groomsmen.
Yeah this is probably the one that hurts the least. Love had his chance and had he not been hurt I think it would've been a lot closer, but as it is Mayfield deserved it (you know, ignoring his character).
(12-09-2017, 07:13 PM)cardcrimson link Wrote:Clearly, character matters not.
At least Mayfield's on field performance was worthy, unlike some of the other winners with Stanford players as groomsmen.
Yeah this is probably the one that hurts the least. Love had his chance and had he not been hurt I think it would've been a lot closer, but as it is Mayfield deserved it (you know, ignoring his character).
12-09-2017, 09:39 PM
Plus this time our guy lost to someone in a different position. QBs and RBs are apples and oranges, so it's a judgement call whose performance was better for their position. All (most?) of the other times our guy lost to someone who clearly was not as good AT THE SAME POSITION.
Plus this time our guy lost to someone in a different position. QBs and RBs are apples and oranges, so it's a judgement call whose performance was better for their position. All (most?) of the other times our guy lost to someone who clearly was not as good AT THE SAME POSITION.
12-09-2017, 10:35 PM
I think Mayfield deserved it. His numbers were ridiculous, and he's led his team to the CFP. Yes, he did some dumb things, but I think he's been publicly excoriated for it, had his captaincy revoked, and I believe he apologized. Compared to Johnny Football, he's a saint.
I am not sure I see how, even were he at a higher-pub school like Alabama, that Bryce would have deserved the award over Mayfield.
Personally, I'm thrilled he beat out Jackson (who had a phenomenal season) for the Bridesman. I think it's fun to collect all these second-place finishes in the H.eisman. It's not an objective award and the clearly better player has not won it a ton of times, including (I think) Toby, Andrew (one of the times) and Christian. But not this year.
-m.
I am not sure I see how, even were he at a higher-pub school like Alabama, that Bryce would have deserved the award over Mayfield.
Personally, I'm thrilled he beat out Jackson (who had a phenomenal season) for the Bridesman. I think it's fun to collect all these second-place finishes in the H.eisman. It's not an objective award and the clearly better player has not won it a ton of times, including (I think) Toby, Andrew (one of the times) and Christian. But not this year.
-m.
I think Mayfield deserved it. His numbers were ridiculous, and he's led his team to the CFP. Yes, he did some dumb things, but I think he's been publicly excoriated for it, had his captaincy revoked, and I believe he apologized. Compared to Johnny Football, he's a saint.
I am not sure I see how, even were he at a higher-pub school like Alabama, that Bryce would have deserved the award over Mayfield.
Personally, I'm thrilled he beat out Jackson (who had a phenomenal season) for the Bridesman. I think it's fun to collect all these second-place finishes in the H.eisman. It's not an objective award and the clearly better player has not won it a ton of times, including (I think) Toby, Andrew (one of the times) and Christian. But not this year.
-m.
I am not sure I see how, even were he at a higher-pub school like Alabama, that Bryce would have deserved the award over Mayfield.
Personally, I'm thrilled he beat out Jackson (who had a phenomenal season) for the Bridesman. I think it's fun to collect all these second-place finishes in the H.eisman. It's not an objective award and the clearly better player has not won it a ton of times, including (I think) Toby, Andrew (one of the times) and Christian. But not this year.
-m.
12-09-2017, 10:56 PM
(12-09-2017, 10:35 PM)Langdude link Wrote:I think Mayfield deserved it. His numbers were ridiculous, and he's led his team to the CFP.True. His on-field results are amazing and certainly merit the award.
Quote:Yes, he did some dumb things, but I think he's been publicly excoriated for it, had his captaincy revoked, and I believe he apologized.Sorry, I can't agree. I think his behavior should disqualify him from even being considered. Saying he did "Dumb things" buys into the idea that he made "bad choices". Some of his actions are things that you absolutely never are permitted to do. Resisting arrest is never a "choice". You just don't do it, period. No thinking or choosing required. It is not picking stocks to buy. The fact he got the charge reduced, probably because of "who he is", compounds the travesty.
Quote:Compared to Johnny Football, he's a saint.I call that damning with faint praise :). Seriously, given all the really upstanding people in college football, why do we ever grant honors to one who is not?
(12-09-2017, 10:35 PM)Langdude link Wrote:I think Mayfield deserved it. His numbers were ridiculous, and he's led his team to the CFP.True. His on-field results are amazing and certainly merit the award.
Quote:Yes, he did some dumb things, but I think he's been publicly excoriated for it, had his captaincy revoked, and I believe he apologized.Sorry, I can't agree. I think his behavior should disqualify him from even being considered. Saying he did "Dumb things" buys into the idea that he made "bad choices". Some of his actions are things that you absolutely never are permitted to do. Resisting arrest is never a "choice". You just don't do it, period. No thinking or choosing required. It is not picking stocks to buy. The fact he got the charge reduced, probably because of "who he is", compounds the travesty.
Quote:Compared to Johnny Football, he's a saint.I call that damning with faint praise :). Seriously, given all the really upstanding people in college football, why do we ever grant honors to one who is not?
12-09-2017, 11:25 PM
(This post was last modified: 12-09-2017, 11:38 PM by TreesAndBirds.)
I agree with Goose (although I do think Baker's walk on story is special and says something positive about him) but the H voters have proven they dont care about integrity or academics or even the best athletic performer if he is on late at night.
But at least for 5-10 minutes on the program we get to watch a Stanford athlete doing stem cell research, talking about his desire to be a doctor, and speaking articulately about what his athletic experience at Stanford means to him. I think (hope) that the kids and parents we are targeting are watching and absorbing, and if so that is a big win for us. Not as big as if we actually won the H award, and I feel bad for our guys who should have won, but its still a big win for our program.
But at least for 5-10 minutes on the program we get to watch a Stanford athlete doing stem cell research, talking about his desire to be a doctor, and speaking articulately about what his athletic experience at Stanford means to him. I think (hope) that the kids and parents we are targeting are watching and absorbing, and if so that is a big win for us. Not as big as if we actually won the H award, and I feel bad for our guys who should have won, but its still a big win for our program.
(This post was last modified: 12-09-2017, 11:38 PM by TreesAndBirds.)
I agree with Goose (although I do think Baker's walk on story is special and says something positive about him) but the H voters have proven they dont care about integrity or academics or even the best athletic performer if he is on late at night.
But at least for 5-10 minutes on the program we get to watch a Stanford athlete doing stem cell research, talking about his desire to be a doctor, and speaking articulately about what his athletic experience at Stanford means to him. I think (hope) that the kids and parents we are targeting are watching and absorbing, and if so that is a big win for us. Not as big as if we actually won the H award, and I feel bad for our guys who should have won, but its still a big win for our program.
But at least for 5-10 minutes on the program we get to watch a Stanford athlete doing stem cell research, talking about his desire to be a doctor, and speaking articulately about what his athletic experience at Stanford means to him. I think (hope) that the kids and parents we are targeting are watching and absorbing, and if so that is a big win for us. Not as big as if we actually won the H award, and I feel bad for our guys who should have won, but its still a big win for our program.
12-09-2017, 11:30 PM
If we do ever win one, can we have the "Voldemort!" guy shouting during the presentation? It can't be any worse than Billy Sims.
If we do ever win one, can we have the "Voldemort!" guy shouting during the presentation? It can't be any worse than Billy Sims.
12-09-2017, 11:40 PM
If anybody has a link to the Love segment I'd be very grateful. Stupidly forgot to DVR the thing.
12-10-2017, 12:30 AM
(12-09-2017, 11:40 PM)dabigv link Wrote:If anybody has a link to the Love segment I'd be very grateful. Stupidly forgot to DVR the thing.
ESPNU is running replays at 11:30 Saturday and several times Sunday. Probably online too.
I posted this in the "Bryce in NY" thread, but thought it ought to be shared more widely.
http://www.facebook.com/stanfordfootball...608365470/
There are a few other videos on that page (like his parents speaking) that are worth your time too.
http://www.facebook.com/stanfordfootball...608365470/
There are a few other videos on that page (like his parents speaking) that are worth your time too.
I posted this in the "Bryce in NY" thread, but thought it ought to be shared more widely.
http://www.facebook.com/stanfordfootball...608365470/
There are a few other videos on that page (like his parents speaking) that are worth your time too.
http://www.facebook.com/stanfordfootball...608365470/
There are a few other videos on that page (like his parents speaking) that are worth your time too.
12-10-2017, 06:06 AM
This and the year Cam won are the two years I understand Stanford athletes not winning it.
The H voters have certainly shown the character aspects don't matter much. Only an open assault case would probably disqualify someone in today's climate.
The H voters have certainly shown the character aspects don't matter much. Only an open assault case would probably disqualify someone in today's climate.
12-10-2017, 06:52 AM
There are probably some voters who would never acknowledge that Stanford SHOULD have an H winner. And then there are the Barry Tompkins-like voters...
12-10-2017, 10:46 AM
(12-09-2017, 10:56 PM)Goose link Wrote:[quote author=Langdude link=topic=18333.msg217727#msg217727 date=1512884139]True. His on-field results are amazing and certainly merit the award.
I think Mayfield deserved it. His numbers were ridiculous, and he's led his team to the CFP.
Quote:Yes, he did some dumb things, but I think he's been publicly excoriated for it, had his captaincy revoked, and I believe he apologized.Sorry, I can't agree. I think his behavior should disqualify him from even being considered. Saying he did "Dumb things" buys into the idea that he made "bad choices". Some of his actions are things that you absolutely never are permitted to do. Resisting arrest is never a "choice". You just don't do it, period. No thinking or choosing required. It is not picking stocks to buy. The fact he got the charge reduced, probably because of "who he is", compounds the travesty.
Quote:Compared to Johnny Football, he's a saint.I call that damning with faint praise :). Seriously, given all the really upstanding people in college football, why do we ever grant honors to one who is not?
[/quote]
Im totally with you on this, Goose. Nobody is saying he needs to be stained for life for one bad night when he was young. But he shouldnt qualify for an award that ostensibly values character, less than 6 months removed from taking a plea for resisting arrest and trying to flee, like an idiot. He either has a problem with alcohol to be bombed to that degree, or he just lacks judgment at some fundamental level. Heaping praise and awards on him so soon after a serious transgression sends exactly the wrong message to young people and just as importantly, to him.Â
Its crazy to me that all the discussion has now centered around flag-planting and crotch-grabbing, when he ***** trying to flee the police this February! In a way, it was a great diversionary PR stunt to plant the flag at the beginning of the season.Â
Might as well just revise the selection criteria statement for the H.eisman now...
But I do wish Mayfield the best and hope he is overcoming his issues.Â
(12-09-2017, 10:56 PM)Goose link Wrote:[quote author=Langdude link=topic=18333.msg217727#msg217727 date=1512884139]True. His on-field results are amazing and certainly merit the award.
I think Mayfield deserved it. His numbers were ridiculous, and he's led his team to the CFP.
Quote:Yes, he did some dumb things, but I think he's been publicly excoriated for it, had his captaincy revoked, and I believe he apologized.Sorry, I can't agree. I think his behavior should disqualify him from even being considered. Saying he did "Dumb things" buys into the idea that he made "bad choices". Some of his actions are things that you absolutely never are permitted to do. Resisting arrest is never a "choice". You just don't do it, period. No thinking or choosing required. It is not picking stocks to buy. The fact he got the charge reduced, probably because of "who he is", compounds the travesty.
Quote:Compared to Johnny Football, he's a saint.I call that damning with faint praise :). Seriously, given all the really upstanding people in college football, why do we ever grant honors to one who is not?
[/quote]
Im totally with you on this, Goose. Nobody is saying he needs to be stained for life for one bad night when he was young. But he shouldnt qualify for an award that ostensibly values character, less than 6 months removed from taking a plea for resisting arrest and trying to flee, like an idiot. He either has a problem with alcohol to be bombed to that degree, or he just lacks judgment at some fundamental level. Heaping praise and awards on him so soon after a serious transgression sends exactly the wrong message to young people and just as importantly, to him.Â
Its crazy to me that all the discussion has now centered around flag-planting and crotch-grabbing, when he ***** trying to flee the police this February! In a way, it was a great diversionary PR stunt to plant the flag at the beginning of the season.Â
Might as well just revise the selection criteria statement for the H.eisman now...
But I do wish Mayfield the best and hope he is overcoming his issues.Â
12-11-2017, 12:29 PM
The sanctimony amongst Stanford fans never ceases to amaze. Little wonder Stanford gets no love from John Q. Public.
We should all just be grateful that (almost) all Stanford athletes "represent" so well and let their actions speak for themselves. Belittling college-aged kids for, yes, stupid mistakes (that really didn't harm anybody but themselves) doesn't make us look good.
We should all just be grateful that (almost) all Stanford athletes "represent" so well and let their actions speak for themselves. Belittling college-aged kids for, yes, stupid mistakes (that really didn't harm anybody but themselves) doesn't make us look good.
The sanctimony amongst Stanford fans never ceases to amaze. Little wonder Stanford gets no love from John Q. Public.
We should all just be grateful that (almost) all Stanford athletes "represent" so well and let their actions speak for themselves. Belittling college-aged kids for, yes, stupid mistakes (that really didn't harm anybody but themselves) doesn't make us look good.
We should all just be grateful that (almost) all Stanford athletes "represent" so well and let their actions speak for themselves. Belittling college-aged kids for, yes, stupid mistakes (that really didn't harm anybody but themselves) doesn't make us look good.
12-11-2017, 12:52 PM
(12-11-2017, 12:29 PM)teejers1 link Wrote:Belittling college-aged kids for, yes, stupid mistakes (that really didn't harm anybody but themselves) doesn't make us look good.I would agree that belittling anybody doesn't make us look good. However, in the case of Mr. Mayfield, he went out and got drunk. While none of us would say that is a noble thing to do, most of us have done it at least once or twice. :) However, if you are being arrested for your actions, even if you really "didn't do anything illegal", a junior high school student has to know you don't resist arrest and you don't attempt to flee. If you are sober enough to flee, you are sober enough to know that you simply can't do that. That isn't a "stupid mistake". Getting drunk was the stupid mistake. Yes, you have diminished capacity, but even in that state, you know you don't resist arrest, for both practical and ethical reasons.
I am not belittling Mr. Mayfield. I am saying that anyone who has committed the infractions that he has (and plead guilty regarding) should be disqualified from any award as a college football player. You may not agree, which is fine.
(12-11-2017, 12:29 PM)teejers1 link Wrote:Belittling college-aged kids for, yes, stupid mistakes (that really didn't harm anybody but themselves) doesn't make us look good.I would agree that belittling anybody doesn't make us look good. However, in the case of Mr. Mayfield, he went out and got drunk. While none of us would say that is a noble thing to do, most of us have done it at least once or twice. :) However, if you are being arrested for your actions, even if you really "didn't do anything illegal", a junior high school student has to know you don't resist arrest and you don't attempt to flee. If you are sober enough to flee, you are sober enough to know that you simply can't do that. That isn't a "stupid mistake". Getting drunk was the stupid mistake. Yes, you have diminished capacity, but even in that state, you know you don't resist arrest, for both practical and ethical reasons.
I am not belittling Mr. Mayfield. I am saying that anyone who has committed the infractions that he has (and plead guilty regarding) should be disqualified from any award as a college football player. You may not agree, which is fine.
12-11-2017, 01:16 PM
We are being sanctimonious about the friggin award, not about the recipient. If the award criteria were not "the most outstanding player in college football in the United States whose performance best exhibits the pursuit of excellence with integrity." and rather were "the best QB or RB from a Power-5 team with fewer than 4 losses" then we'd have no basis for complaining.
Listen, kids make mistakes, an it's not like David Parry didn't make a mistake very similar to Mayfield's. Nobody here is suggesting that he is an evil person. But pointing out the discrepancy between the prize's stated criteria and the players chosen for it is not sanctimony.
BC
Listen, kids make mistakes, an it's not like David Parry didn't make a mistake very similar to Mayfield's. Nobody here is suggesting that he is an evil person. But pointing out the discrepancy between the prize's stated criteria and the players chosen for it is not sanctimony.
BC
We are being sanctimonious about the friggin award, not about the recipient. If the award criteria were not "the most outstanding player in college football in the United States whose performance best exhibits the pursuit of excellence with integrity." and rather were "the best QB or RB from a Power-5 team with fewer than 4 losses" then we'd have no basis for complaining.
Listen, kids make mistakes, an it's not like David Parry didn't make a mistake very similar to Mayfield's. Nobody here is suggesting that he is an evil person. But pointing out the discrepancy between the prize's stated criteria and the players chosen for it is not sanctimony.
BC
Listen, kids make mistakes, an it's not like David Parry didn't make a mistake very similar to Mayfield's. Nobody here is suggesting that he is an evil person. But pointing out the discrepancy between the prize's stated criteria and the players chosen for it is not sanctimony.
BC
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