[winflop]

Percent of students receiving some form of financial assistance     85%
Percent of students receiving any form of aid toward cost             67%
Percent of students receiving need-based scholarship from Stanford  47%

http://facts.stanford.edu/academics/undergraduate-facts

I'm not sure how much of these students you include/exclude and which is the right metric, but when you factor that out it still means that a substantial majority of students who need financial assistance are able to avoid having debt on graduation because of scholarships. As an alum I'm pretty damn proud of that.

[winflop]

Percent of students receiving some form of financial assistance     85%
Percent of students receiving any form of aid toward cost             67%
Percent of students receiving need-based scholarship from Stanford  47%

http://facts.stanford.edu/academics/undergraduate-facts

I'm not sure how much of these students you include/exclude and which is the right metric, but when you factor that out it still means that a substantial majority of students who need financial assistance are able to avoid having debt on graduation because of scholarships. As an alum I'm pretty damn proud of that.

[winflop]

[quote author=CTcard link=topic=18685.msg223265#msg223265 date=1517949352]
* For wealthy universities like Stanford, Harvard, et al., the current complaint that I have seen most often among those who generally understand the situation is that while sure Stanford provides generous aid for those who get admitted and need it, they have admissions policies that don't allow many needy students in - thus effectively negating the generous aid policies.

I'm quoting this because it deserves to be read again, and for those who missed it the first time.
[/quote]

Is that true? I thought admissions were need-blind

[winflop]

[quote author=CTcard link=topic=18685.msg223265#msg223265 date=1517949352]
* For wealthy universities like Stanford, Harvard, et al., the current complaint that I have seen most often among those who generally understand the situation is that while sure Stanford provides generous aid for those who get admitted and need it, they have admissions policies that don't allow many needy students in - thus effectively negating the generous aid policies.

I'm quoting this because it deserves to be read again, and for those who missed it the first time.
[/quote]

Is that true? I thought admissions were need-blind

[winflop]

More broadly, there is an sour spot (the opposite of a sweet spot) where family income is high enough to not qualify for the tuition waivers or significant amounts of financial aid but not high enough that the parental contributions don't cause a lot of financial pain.

A kid with a family income of $150,000 - ~$500,000 (that is, the upper middle class kids you refer to) are going to feel it.  You hope that parents are putting money away in anticipation of the expenditures, but it can get ugly, especially if you have multiple kids in college at the same time.

BC

Yep that's us. We put away some but not enough. Fortunately we bought a house in the Bay Area 20 years ago so we have equity to fill the gap. But it means it will take us several more years of working to pay off our mortgage. A relatively small price to pay IMnsHO

[winflop]

More broadly, there is an sour spot (the opposite of a sweet spot) where family income is high enough to not qualify for the tuition waivers or significant amounts of financial aid but not high enough that the parental contributions don't cause a lot of financial pain.

A kid with a family income of $150,000 - ~$500,000 (that is, the upper middle class kids you refer to) are going to feel it.  You hope that parents are putting money away in anticipation of the expenditures, but it can get ugly, especially if you have multiple kids in college at the same time.

BC

Yep that's us. We put away some but not enough. Fortunately we bought a house in the Bay Area 20 years ago so we have equity to fill the gap. But it means it will take us several more years of working to pay off our mortgage. A relatively small price to pay IMnsHO

[oldalum]

I do not know Stanford's policy, but I believe a general rule of thumb for comparable institutions is that parents are expected to contribute 5% of their financial assets each year, not including retirement assets. I assume that percentage of income they are expected to contribute varies by income level.

I copied the following from the Stanford financial aid web site:

"We do not include formal retirement assets (401k, 403b, IRA, Keogh) in our analysis."
"In Stanford's calculation of the expected parent contribution, we cap the amount of home equity considered at 1.2 times the total family income."

The table below shows the average scholarship and grant for the class of 2020, by income range for dependent students whose families live in the United States. [Net cost is based on total cost of attendance, which for 2017-2018 is $69,109 plus travel cost. This includes an allowance of about $3000 for personal expenses.]

Total (Gross)         Avg Scholarship  Average
Family Income          and Grant            Net Cost 

Less than $ 65,000       68,097             4,832  
65,000 - 95,000             60,963               7,824
95,000 - 125,000           52,295             16,039
125,000 - 155,000         41,562             26,816
155,000 - 185,000         36,775             31,589
185,000 - 215,000         26,481             41,911
215,000 - 245,000*       17,926             50,401
> $245,000*                   20,129            46,568

*most who qualify have 2 (or more) children in college

[oldalum]

I do not know Stanford's policy, but I believe a general rule of thumb for comparable institutions is that parents are expected to contribute 5% of their financial assets each year, not including retirement assets. I assume that percentage of income they are expected to contribute varies by income level.

I copied the following from the Stanford financial aid web site:

"We do not include formal retirement assets (401k, 403b, IRA, Keogh) in our analysis."
"In Stanford's calculation of the expected parent contribution, we cap the amount of home equity considered at 1.2 times the total family income."

The table below shows the average scholarship and grant for the class of 2020, by income range for dependent students whose families live in the United States. [Net cost is based on total cost of attendance, which for 2017-2018 is $69,109 plus travel cost. This includes an allowance of about $3000 for personal expenses.]

Total (Gross)         Avg Scholarship  Average
Family Income          and Grant            Net Cost 

Less than $ 65,000       68,097             4,832  
65,000 - 95,000             60,963               7,824
95,000 - 125,000           52,295             16,039
125,000 - 155,000         41,562             26,816
155,000 - 185,000         36,775             31,589
185,000 - 215,000         26,481             41,911
215,000 - 245,000*       17,926             50,401
> $245,000*                   20,129            46,568

*most who qualify have 2 (or more) children in college

[stupac2]

[quote author=JustAnotherFan link=topic=18685.msg223301#msg223301 date=1517967879]
[quote author=CTcard link=topic=18685.msg223265#msg223265 date=1517949352]
* For wealthy universities like Stanford, Harvard, et al., the current complaint that I have seen most often among those who generally understand the situation is that while sure Stanford provides generous aid for those who get admitted and need it, they have admissions policies that don't allow many needy students in - thus effectively negating the generous aid policies.

I'm quoting this because it deserves to be read again, and for those who missed it the first time.
[/quote]

Is that true? I thought admissions were need-blind
[/quote]

I assume he means in a more general sense where things like SATs, AP classes, extracurriculars, etc correlated strongly with family wealth. I certainly knew almost no one who would qualify as poor at Stanford. Pretty much everyone came from a wealthier family than mine (and we were decidedly middle class).

[stupac2]

[quote author=JustAnotherFan link=topic=18685.msg223301#msg223301 date=1517967879]
[quote author=CTcard link=topic=18685.msg223265#msg223265 date=1517949352]
* For wealthy universities like Stanford, Harvard, et al., the current complaint that I have seen most often among those who generally understand the situation is that while sure Stanford provides generous aid for those who get admitted and need it, they have admissions policies that don't allow many needy students in - thus effectively negating the generous aid policies.

I'm quoting this because it deserves to be read again, and for those who missed it the first time.
[/quote]

Is that true? I thought admissions were need-blind
[/quote]

I assume he means in a more general sense where things like SATs, AP classes, extracurriculars, etc correlated strongly with family wealth. I certainly knew almost no one who would qualify as poor at Stanford. Pretty much everyone came from a wealthier family than mine (and we were decidedly middle class).

[JustAnotherFan]

Total (Gross)         Avg Scholarship  Average
Family Income          and Grant            Net Cost 

Less than $ 65,000       68,097             4,832  
65,000 - 95,000             60,963               7,824
95,000 - 125,000           52,295             16,039
125,000 - 155,000         41,562             26,816
155,000 - 185,000         36,775             31,589
185,000 - 215,000         26,481             41,911
215,000 - 245,000*       17,926             50,401
> $245,000*                   20,129            46,568

Does anyone have any insight on why those with family income between $215-245k received about $2.2k less than those with incomes north of $245k?

[JustAnotherFan]

Total (Gross)         Avg Scholarship  Average
Family Income          and Grant            Net Cost 

Less than $ 65,000       68,097             4,832  
65,000 - 95,000             60,963               7,824
95,000 - 125,000           52,295             16,039
125,000 - 155,000         41,562             26,816
155,000 - 185,000         36,775             31,589
185,000 - 215,000         26,481             41,911
215,000 - 245,000*       17,926             50,401
> $245,000*                   20,129            46,568

Does anyone have any insight on why those with family income between $215-245k received about $2.2k less than those with incomes north of $245k?

[oldalum]

no, but I suspect it may be just a small numbers artifact.

[oldalum]

no, but I suspect it may be just a small numbers artifact.

[oldalum]

Percentage of students receiving Pell grants is commonly used as a proxy for the proportion of poor students who are enrolled in a college. See WaPo article at https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grad...77f782f2fb.

My take from the 2015 numbers in the article is that the "elite" schools tended to cluster around 15%, which was Stanford's number. UCLA's was 30% and other UCs were higher.

[oldalum]

Percentage of students receiving Pell grants is commonly used as a proxy for the proportion of poor students who are enrolled in a college. See WaPo article at https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grad...77f782f2fb.

My take from the 2015 numbers in the article is that the "elite" schools tended to cluster around 15%, which was Stanford's number. UCLA's was 30% and other UCs were higher.

[Mick]

[quote author=oldalum link=topic=18685.msg224141#msg224141 date=1518878203]
Total (Gross)         Avg Scholarship  Average
Family Income          and Grant            Net Cost 

Less than $ 65,000       68,097             4,832  
65,000 - 95,000             60,963               7,824
95,000 - 125,000           52,295             16,039
125,000 - 155,000         41,562             26,816
155,000 - 185,000         36,775             31,589
185,000 - 215,000         26,481             41,911
215,000 - 245,000*       17,926             50,401
> $245,000*                   20,129            46,568

Does anyone have any insight on why those with family income between $215-245k received about $2.2k less than those with incomes north of $245k?
[/quote]

My assumption is that those are four year averages.  My guess would be that families with higher incomes may face greater income fluctuation over a four year period, because (1) their compensation is composed of a higher percentage of bonus and commission and (2) my suspicion is that they lose their jobs more frequently below them; e.g., if you're making a quarter mil, you really have to perform, and perform out of the gate; and (3) families with greater wealth may face greater fluctuation in wealth.  So if a family loses everything, the college may feel a bit more pity -- unlike one of the admissions counselors on this board, I must say.

[Mick]

[quote author=oldalum link=topic=18685.msg224141#msg224141 date=1518878203]
Total (Gross)         Avg Scholarship  Average
Family Income          and Grant            Net Cost 

Less than $ 65,000       68,097             4,832  
65,000 - 95,000             60,963               7,824
95,000 - 125,000           52,295             16,039
125,000 - 155,000         41,562             26,816
155,000 - 185,000         36,775             31,589
185,000 - 215,000         26,481             41,911
215,000 - 245,000*       17,926             50,401
> $245,000*                   20,129            46,568

Does anyone have any insight on why those with family income between $215-245k received about $2.2k less than those with incomes north of $245k?
[/quote]

My assumption is that those are four year averages.  My guess would be that families with higher incomes may face greater income fluctuation over a four year period, because (1) their compensation is composed of a higher percentage of bonus and commission and (2) my suspicion is that they lose their jobs more frequently below them; e.g., if you're making a quarter mil, you really have to perform, and perform out of the gate; and (3) families with greater wealth may face greater fluctuation in wealth.  So if a family loses everything, the college may feel a bit more pity -- unlike one of the admissions counselors on this board, I must say.

[oldalum]

My assumption is that those are four year averages. 

These figures are just for the class of 2020, when they were freshmen.

here's the link: https://financialaid.stanford.edu/underg...index.html

[oldalum]

My assumption is that those are four year averages. 

These figures are just for the class of 2020, when they were freshmen.

here's the link: https://financialaid.stanford.edu/underg...index.html

[BostonCard]

[quote author=oldalum link=topic=18685.msg224141#msg224141 date=1518878203]
Total (Gross)         Avg Scholarship  Average
Family Income          and Grant            Net Cost 

Less than $ 65,000       68,097             4,832  
65,000 - 95,000             60,963               7,824
95,000 - 125,000           52,295             16,039
125,000 - 155,000         41,562             26,816
155,000 - 185,000         36,775             31,589
185,000 - 215,000         26,481             41,911
215,000 - 245,000*       17,926             50,401
> $245,000*                   20,129            46,568

Does anyone have any insight on why those with family income between $215-245k received about $2.2k less than those with incomes north of $245k?
[/quote]

Also, why aren’t the total costs (scholarship and grant plus net cost should equal total cost) consistent?

BC

[BostonCard]

[quote author=oldalum link=topic=18685.msg224141#msg224141 date=1518878203]
Total (Gross)         Avg Scholarship  Average
Family Income          and Grant            Net Cost 

Less than $ 65,000       68,097             4,832  
65,000 - 95,000             60,963               7,824
95,000 - 125,000           52,295             16,039
125,000 - 155,000         41,562             26,816
155,000 - 185,000         36,775             31,589
185,000 - 215,000         26,481             41,911
215,000 - 245,000*       17,926             50,401
> $245,000*                   20,129            46,568

Does anyone have any insight on why those with family income between $215-245k received about $2.2k less than those with incomes north of $245k?
[/quote]

Also, why aren’t the total costs (scholarship and grant plus net cost should equal total cost) consistent?

BC

[stupac2]

Also, why aren’t the total costs (scholarship and grant plus net cost should equal total cost) consistent?

Welcome to whose aid is it anyway, where the costs are made up and sticker price doesn't matter!

[stupac2]

Also, why aren’t the total costs (scholarship and grant plus net cost should equal total cost) consistent?

Welcome to whose aid is it anyway, where the costs are made up and sticker price doesn't matter!

[82lsju]

here's a graphic from the Daily with some info on attendance cost, financial aid, income distribution of the parents of students and some limited comparisons to other universities

https://stanforddaily-wpengine.netdna-ss...RAPHIC.jpg

[82lsju]

here's a graphic from the Daily with some info on attendance cost, financial aid, income distribution of the parents of students and some limited comparisons to other universities

https://stanforddaily-wpengine.netdna-ss...RAPHIC.jpg