01-09-2020, 10:00 AM
“Opinions from those hell bent on pre-judgment” is pretty much the dictionary definition of a fan board...
If you are a baseball fan...
01-09-2020, 11:17 AM
(01-09-2020, 10:00 AM)76lsjumb Wrote: “Opinions from those hell bent on pre-judgment” is pretty much the dictionary definition of a fan board...
Lifelong Giants fan and I really could not care less about Kapler, either way.
And I'm starting to feel that way about the roster.
The good news is that I'm not a STH, and I only get up to 1 or 2 games, max, a season. But if other STHs share my apathy . . . well, we see what happens when a fan base gets disinterested.
(01-09-2020, 10:00 AM)76lsjumb Wrote: “Opinions from those hell bent on pre-judgment” is pretty much the dictionary definition of a fan board...
Lifelong Giants fan and I really could not care less about Kapler, either way.
And I'm starting to feel that way about the roster.
The good news is that I'm not a STH, and I only get up to 1 or 2 games, max, a season. But if other STHs share my apathy . . . well, we see what happens when a fan base gets disinterested.
01-09-2020, 01:21 PM
I know of two lady friends who have not reupped their ST because of the hire. They were also not happy that Larry was retained.
The Giants internally are a soap opera. Bonds and Kent, Glenallen Hill and &^%$#, Larry and Pam. And now, "Coconuts."
Stay tuned.
The Giants internally are a soap opera. Bonds and Kent, Glenallen Hill and &^%$#, Larry and Pam. And now, "Coconuts."
Stay tuned.
01-09-2020, 01:35 PM
(01-09-2020, 09:28 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: It's fine to have an opinion, but too many things are being conflated for me to take the guilty until proven innocent takes on Kapler too seriously.
To be clear, I'm not claiming Kapler was a great hire or that he will win a bunch of games nobody thinks the Giants would be winning without him. All I have done is demonstrate why he was hired and that nobody who has a sound understanding of what makes baseball teams win more than half their games, is going to hold Kapler responsible for the Giants losing more than half their games, because the talent just isn't there.
Now, people can blame Kapler for the coming losses, but will they be rightfully laying responsibility for losing where it lies, really? Not if the comments like "how he handled the (Dodgers) situation" and "coconut oil" are being used to preemptively judge the guy. Even his record as Phillies manager isn't a fair assessment because there is a lot of evidence that suggest managers do better in their 2nd job (Joe Torre, Bobby Cox, Bruce Bochy, and Tony LaRussa to name four). Farhan is not dumb. In fact, by measures many here believe in (degree brand and academic performance), he's one of the smartest guys in the game.
The reality is people who don't like Kapler aren't going to withhold judgement. Thats fine, but don't expect me to take opinions from those hell bent on pre-judgment all that seriously.
Nobody is trying to tell you how you should take opinions. But you are posting about how things ought to be, while everyone else is posting on how things are. It is noble to take a wait-and-see attitude and hold pre-judgment. Look, Harbaugh had a couple issues when we hired him (most notably a DUI) and some were skeptical; he quickly proved them wrong by exceeding expectations. Kapler could do that; I think if the team is sniffing .500 there's a good chance the consensus is that he maximized talent and has team headed in the right direction. But let's say the team has a 90 - 95 loss season, which is roughly in line with what people expect and your average fan will compare it to last year's 77-85 record and conclude the difference is due to the new coach.
BC
(01-09-2020, 09:28 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: It's fine to have an opinion, but too many things are being conflated for me to take the guilty until proven innocent takes on Kapler too seriously.
To be clear, I'm not claiming Kapler was a great hire or that he will win a bunch of games nobody thinks the Giants would be winning without him. All I have done is demonstrate why he was hired and that nobody who has a sound understanding of what makes baseball teams win more than half their games, is going to hold Kapler responsible for the Giants losing more than half their games, because the talent just isn't there.
Now, people can blame Kapler for the coming losses, but will they be rightfully laying responsibility for losing where it lies, really? Not if the comments like "how he handled the (Dodgers) situation" and "coconut oil" are being used to preemptively judge the guy. Even his record as Phillies manager isn't a fair assessment because there is a lot of evidence that suggest managers do better in their 2nd job (Joe Torre, Bobby Cox, Bruce Bochy, and Tony LaRussa to name four). Farhan is not dumb. In fact, by measures many here believe in (degree brand and academic performance), he's one of the smartest guys in the game.
The reality is people who don't like Kapler aren't going to withhold judgement. Thats fine, but don't expect me to take opinions from those hell bent on pre-judgment all that seriously.
Nobody is trying to tell you how you should take opinions. But you are posting about how things ought to be, while everyone else is posting on how things are. It is noble to take a wait-and-see attitude and hold pre-judgment. Look, Harbaugh had a couple issues when we hired him (most notably a DUI) and some were skeptical; he quickly proved them wrong by exceeding expectations. Kapler could do that; I think if the team is sniffing .500 there's a good chance the consensus is that he maximized talent and has team headed in the right direction. But let's say the team has a 90 - 95 loss season, which is roughly in line with what people expect and your average fan will compare it to last year's 77-85 record and conclude the difference is due to the new coach.
BC
(01-09-2020, 09:28 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: It's fine to have an opinion, but too many things are being conflated for me to take the guilty until proven innocent takes on Kapler too seriously.
To be clear, I'm not claiming Kapler was a great hire or that he will win a bunch of games nobody thinks the Giants would be winning without him. All I have done is demonstrate why he was hired and that nobody who has a sound understanding of what makes baseball teams win more than half their games, is going to hold Kapler responsible for the Giants losing more than half their games, because the talent just isn't there.
Now, people can blame Kapler for the coming losses, but will they be rightfully laying responsibility for losing where it lies, really? Not if the comments like "how he handled the (Dodgers) situation" and "coconut oil" are being used to preemptively judge the guy. Even his record as Phillies manager isn't a fair assessment because there is a lot of evidence that suggest managers do better in their 2nd job (Joe Torre, Bobby Cox, Bruce Bochy, and Tony LaRussa to name four). Farhan is not dumb. In fact, by measures many here believe in (degree brand and academic performance), he's one of the smartest guys in the game.
The reality is people who don't like Kapler aren't going to withhold judgement. Thats fine, but don't expect me to take opinions from those hell bent on pre-judgment all that seriously.
You aren’t getting it. I’m not saying that he should be to blame. I’m saying he will be blamed. Fans are much more likely to give slack to somebody that they like. He comes in as somebody that a lot of people don’t like. Thus when things turn south – as I suspect they will, I believe he will be the one the fans take their wrath out on. I’m not suggesting it’s right. I’m not suggesting it’s fair. I’m just suggesting that’s what will happen.
I didn’t like the hire for some off field reasons, but primarily because he failed miserably at Philadelphia. They ran him out of town in two years and they barely could wait that long. Maybe that was “unfair”. But it’s the reality. So I’ll leave you the last word I’m done. And again I hope I’m wrong I hope he’s the greatest things
since Swiss cheese. I want the Giants to succeed
(01-09-2020, 10:00 AM)76lsjumb Wrote: “Opinions from those hell bent on pre-judgment” is pretty much the dictionary definition of a fan board...
Touché.
(01-09-2020, 09:28 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: It's fine to have an opinion, but too many things are being conflated for me to take the guilty until proven innocent takes on Kapler too seriously.
To be clear, I'm not claiming Kapler was a great hire or that he will win a bunch of games nobody thinks the Giants would be winning without him. All I have done is demonstrate why he was hired and that nobody who has a sound understanding of what makes baseball teams win more than half their games, is going to hold Kapler responsible for the Giants losing more than half their games, because the talent just isn't there.
Now, people can blame Kapler for the coming losses, but will they be rightfully laying responsibility for losing where it lies, really? Not if the comments like "how he handled the (Dodgers) situation" and "coconut oil" are being used to preemptively judge the guy. Even his record as Phillies manager isn't a fair assessment because there is a lot of evidence that suggest managers do better in their 2nd job (Joe Torre, Bobby Cox, Bruce Bochy, and Tony LaRussa to name four). Farhan is not dumb. In fact, by measures many here believe in (degree brand and academic performance), he's one of the smartest guys in the game.
The reality is people who don't like Kapler aren't going to withhold judgement. Thats fine, but don't expect me to take opinions from those hell bent on pre-judgment all that seriously.
You aren’t getting it. I’m not saying that he should be to blame. I’m saying he will be blamed. Fans are much more likely to give slack to somebody that they like. He comes in as somebody that a lot of people don’t like. Thus when things turn south – as I suspect they will, I believe he will be the one the fans take their wrath out on. I’m not suggesting it’s right. I’m not suggesting it’s fair. I’m just suggesting that’s what will happen.
I didn’t like the hire for some off field reasons, but primarily because he failed miserably at Philadelphia. They ran him out of town in two years and they barely could wait that long. Maybe that was “unfair”. But it’s the reality. So I’ll leave you the last word I’m done. And again I hope I’m wrong I hope he’s the greatest things
since Swiss cheese. I want the Giants to succeed
(01-09-2020, 10:00 AM)76lsjumb Wrote: “Opinions from those hell bent on pre-judgment” is pretty much the dictionary definition of a fan board...
Touché.
01-13-2020, 02:01 PM
I believe it was suggested that Kapler wouldn't last more than a season or two? Well, there's an accomplished manager now available for when that time comes.
Too soon?
Too soon?
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