[Griffins78]

https://www.axios.com/coronavirus-califo...c7d6a.html

Gov. Gavin Newsom told Rachel Maddow that they worked with a consortium of non profits and a California-based manufacturer to secure a contract for 150 million N95 and 50 million surgical masks from Asia - wasn’t clear if that was the monthly order or total order to be delivered in monthly shipments. This is great news!

[Griffins78]

https://www.axios.com/coronavirus-califo...c7d6a.html

Gov. Gavin Newsom told Rachel Maddow that they worked with a consortium of non profits and a California-based manufacturer to secure a contract for 150 million N95 and 50 million surgical masks from Asia - wasn’t clear if that was the monthly order or total order to be delivered in monthly shipments. This is great news!

[oldalum]

I heard it as 200 million per month

[oldalum]

I heard it as 200 million per month

[burger]

I wouldn't celebrate yet.  Trump will seize them all and give them to Florida and Wisconsin.

[burger]

I wouldn't celebrate yet.  Trump will seize them all and give them to Florida and Wisconsin.

[Snorlax94]

I’m proud — and glad — that I live in CA!!!

[Snorlax94]

I’m proud — and glad — that I live in CA!!!

[thatboy]

I wouldn't celebrate yet.  Trump will seize them all and give them to Florida and Wisconsin.

I thought you were joking until I saw this:
https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2...s-supplies

And this:
https://franklinreporter.com/feds-take-a...e-workers/

That same hospital is now at capacity of covid patients.
https://franklinreporter.com/coronavirus...-capacity/


I don't think the motivation is as conspiratorial as you implied, but it does suggest some gross incompetence and lack of preparation, leading to a poor execution.

[thatboy]

I wouldn't celebrate yet.  Trump will seize them all and give them to Florida and Wisconsin.

I thought you were joking until I saw this:
https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2...s-supplies

And this:
https://franklinreporter.com/feds-take-a...e-workers/

That same hospital is now at capacity of covid patients.
https://franklinreporter.com/coronavirus...-capacity/


I don't think the motivation is as conspiratorial as you implied, but it does suggest some gross incompetence and lack of preparation, leading to a poor execution.

[82 Card]

SFGate says the deal is for 200 million per month: https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/C...185990.php

Unlike what the feds have managed to acquire, these masks probably will not be given to distributors to sell overseas. Good chance some of these masks will be distributed to other states. I doubt FEMA would dare try to abscond with shipments on this scale. It's a lot easier to bully individual hospitals. I suppose the state will need to figure out a way to protect the masks once they are distributed.

[82 Card]

SFGate says the deal is for 200 million per month: https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/C...185990.php

Unlike what the feds have managed to acquire, these masks probably will not be given to distributors to sell overseas. Good chance some of these masks will be distributed to other states. I doubt FEMA would dare try to abscond with shipments on this scale. It's a lot easier to bully individual hospitals. I suppose the state will need to figure out a way to protect the masks once they are distributed.

[OutsiderFan]

Oh isn't this thread fodder for drift, so let's do it!

It has been evident for quite some time that the U.S. needs CA for more than CA needs the U.S.  Given CA, OR, and WA have so many strategic advantages and cultural similarities, how about they form a union to break away from the U.S.? These states combined would form the 4th largest economy in the world, behind only the remaining U.S., China, and Japan. 

Even though now in CT, as a native Californian, I'm so completely over CA being ruled by flyover country. Idaho, Wyoming, Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota, Kansas, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Utah, Colorado, all get two Senators and have LITTLE in common with Western coastal states. That's 20 Senators from 10 piddly states working against the interest of 6 Senators between WA, OR, and CA, who represent states comprising 1/4 the U.S. GDP. It's pretty much the definition of taxation without (commensurate) representation and is not acceptable any longer.

There is a lot of Russian SOCMED agitprop about CalExit on heels of Brexit to sow division, but it makes far, far more sense for CA, WA, and OR to break away from the U.S. as a group of states than for CA to go it alone. Maybe extend invites to Nevada and Arizona if they want in. Pacific Union anyone?

[OutsiderFan]

Oh isn't this thread fodder for drift, so let's do it!

It has been evident for quite some time that the U.S. needs CA for more than CA needs the U.S.  Given CA, OR, and WA have so many strategic advantages and cultural similarities, how about they form a union to break away from the U.S.? These states combined would form the 4th largest economy in the world, behind only the remaining U.S., China, and Japan. 

Even though now in CT, as a native Californian, I'm so completely over CA being ruled by flyover country. Idaho, Wyoming, Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota, Kansas, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Utah, Colorado, all get two Senators and have LITTLE in common with Western coastal states. That's 20 Senators from 10 piddly states working against the interest of 6 Senators between WA, OR, and CA, who represent states comprising 1/4 the U.S. GDP. It's pretty much the definition of taxation without (commensurate) representation and is not acceptable any longer.

There is a lot of Russian SOCMED agitprop about CalExit on heels of Brexit to sow division, but it makes far, far more sense for CA, WA, and OR to break away from the U.S. as a group of states than for CA to go it alone. Maybe extend invites to Nevada and Arizona if they want in. Pacific Union anyone?

[Cardinal96]

Oh isn't this thread fodder for drift, so let's do it!

It has been evident for quite some time that the U.S. needs CA for more than CA needs the U.S.  Given CA, OR, and WA have so many strategic advantages and cultural similarities, how about they form a union to break away from the U.S.? These states combined would form the 4th largest economy in the world, behind only the remaining U.S., China, and Japan. 

Even though now in CT, as a native Californian, I'm so completely over CA being ruled by flyover country. Idaho, Wyoming, Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota, Kansas, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Utah, Colorado, all get two Senators and have LITTLE in common with Western coastal states. That's 20 Senators from 10 piddly states working against the interest of 6 Senators between WA, OR, and CA, who represent states comprising 1/4 the U.S. GDP. It's pretty much the definition of taxation without (commensurate) representation and is not acceptable any longer.

There is a lot of Russian SOCMED agitprop about CalExit on heels of Brexit to sow division, but it makes far, far more sense for CA, WA, and OR to break away from the U.S. as a group of states than for CA to go it alone. Maybe extend invites to Nevada and Arizona if they want in. Pacific Union anyone?

The states combined would form the 4th largest economy in the world prior to splitting off from the union. After splitting from the union, there would be an exodus of people and capital like you wouldn't believe.  The other ~ 47 states are a brobdingnagian market for California companies. Trade-free access to that market would be gone. 

I know there is sarcasm here but this is a really bad idea. I am a NYC resident and have often wondered myself if the NorthEast would do something similar. Then I wake back up to reality and realize how much of the wealth is generated because NYC is the financial capital of the US.

[Cardinal96]

Oh isn't this thread fodder for drift, so let's do it!

It has been evident for quite some time that the U.S. needs CA for more than CA needs the U.S.  Given CA, OR, and WA have so many strategic advantages and cultural similarities, how about they form a union to break away from the U.S.? These states combined would form the 4th largest economy in the world, behind only the remaining U.S., China, and Japan. 

Even though now in CT, as a native Californian, I'm so completely over CA being ruled by flyover country. Idaho, Wyoming, Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota, Kansas, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Utah, Colorado, all get two Senators and have LITTLE in common with Western coastal states. That's 20 Senators from 10 piddly states working against the interest of 6 Senators between WA, OR, and CA, who represent states comprising 1/4 the U.S. GDP. It's pretty much the definition of taxation without (commensurate) representation and is not acceptable any longer.

There is a lot of Russian SOCMED agitprop about CalExit on heels of Brexit to sow division, but it makes far, far more sense for CA, WA, and OR to break away from the U.S. as a group of states than for CA to go it alone. Maybe extend invites to Nevada and Arizona if they want in. Pacific Union anyone?

The states combined would form the 4th largest economy in the world prior to splitting off from the union. After splitting from the union, there would be an exodus of people and capital like you wouldn't believe.  The other ~ 47 states are a brobdingnagian market for California companies. Trade-free access to that market would be gone. 

I know there is sarcasm here but this is a really bad idea. I am a NYC resident and have often wondered myself if the NorthEast would do something similar. Then I wake back up to reality and realize how much of the wealth is generated because NYC is the financial capital of the US.

[Griffins78]

I’m for the West Coast joining Canada and if you want, the Northeast can join too.

[Griffins78]

I’m for the West Coast joining Canada and if you want, the Northeast can join too.

[oldalum]

I understand the sentiment but it's just not workable: the new "U.S. of Flyover Country" is going to start charging us coastal folks too much to fly over it.

[oldalum]

I understand the sentiment but it's just not workable: the new "U.S. of Flyover Country" is going to start charging us coastal folks too much to fly over it.

[Genuine Realist]

Oh isn't this thread fodder for drift, so let's do it!

It has been evident for quite some time that the U.S. needs CA for more than CA needs the U.S.  Given CA, OR, and WA have so many strategic advantages and cultural similarities, how about they form a union to break away from the U.S.? These states combined would form the 4th largest economy in the world, behind only the remaining U.S., China, and Japan. 

Even though now in CT, as a native Californian, I'm so completely over CA being ruled by flyover country. Idaho, Wyoming, Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota, Kansas, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Utah, Colorado, all get two Senators and have LITTLE in common with Western coastal states. That's 20 Senators from 10 piddly states working against the interest of 6 Senators between WA, OR, and CA, who represent states comprising 1/4 the U.S. GDP. It's pretty much the definition of taxation without (commensurate) representation and is not acceptable any longer.

There is a lot of Russian SOCMED agitprop about CalExit on heels of Brexit to sow division, but it makes far, far more sense for CA, WA, and OR to break away from the U.S. as a group of states than for CA to go it alone. Maybe extend invites to Nevada and Arizona if they want in. Pacific Union anyone?

I remember this being discussed in 2016, to which there was a three-word answer - the Colorado River. Half of the State has inadequate water supply. It is not in fact self-sufficient. 

Not to mention that this issue was settled somewhat decisively 150 years ago.

So maybe we'd better stick together.  If an excess of masks results in some being steered to other areas of greater need, I do believe that's the way the system is supposed to work.

[Genuine Realist]

Oh isn't this thread fodder for drift, so let's do it!

It has been evident for quite some time that the U.S. needs CA for more than CA needs the U.S.  Given CA, OR, and WA have so many strategic advantages and cultural similarities, how about they form a union to break away from the U.S.? These states combined would form the 4th largest economy in the world, behind only the remaining U.S., China, and Japan. 

Even though now in CT, as a native Californian, I'm so completely over CA being ruled by flyover country. Idaho, Wyoming, Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota, Kansas, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Utah, Colorado, all get two Senators and have LITTLE in common with Western coastal states. That's 20 Senators from 10 piddly states working against the interest of 6 Senators between WA, OR, and CA, who represent states comprising 1/4 the U.S. GDP. It's pretty much the definition of taxation without (commensurate) representation and is not acceptable any longer.

There is a lot of Russian SOCMED agitprop about CalExit on heels of Brexit to sow division, but it makes far, far more sense for CA, WA, and OR to break away from the U.S. as a group of states than for CA to go it alone. Maybe extend invites to Nevada and Arizona if they want in. Pacific Union anyone?

I remember this being discussed in 2016, to which there was a three-word answer - the Colorado River. Half of the State has inadequate water supply. It is not in fact self-sufficient. 

Not to mention that this issue was settled somewhat decisively 150 years ago.

So maybe we'd better stick together.  If an excess of masks results in some being steered to other areas of greater need, I do believe that's the way the system is supposed to work.

[JustAnotherFan]

Oh isn't this thread fodder for drift, so let's do it!

It has been evident for quite some time that the U.S. needs CA for more than CA needs the U.S.  Given CA, OR, and WA have so many strategic advantages and cultural similarities, how about they form a union to break away from the U.S.? These states combined would form the 4th largest economy in the world, behind only the remaining U.S., China, and Japan. 

Even though now in CT, as a native Californian, I'm so completely over CA being ruled by flyover country. Idaho, Wyoming, Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota, Kansas, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Utah, Colorado, all get two Senators and have LITTLE in common with Western coastal states. That's 20 Senators from 10 piddly states working against the interest of 6 Senators between WA, OR, and CA, who represent states comprising 1/4 the U.S. GDP. It's pretty much the definition of taxation without (commensurate) representation and is not acceptable any longer.

There is a lot of Russian SOCMED agitprop about CalExit on heels of Brexit to sow division, but it makes far, far more sense for CA, WA, and OR to break away from the U.S. as a group of states than for CA to go it alone. Maybe extend invites to Nevada and Arizona if they want in. Pacific Union anyone?

You had me until Arizona. No.

[JustAnotherFan]

Oh isn't this thread fodder for drift, so let's do it!

It has been evident for quite some time that the U.S. needs CA for more than CA needs the U.S.  Given CA, OR, and WA have so many strategic advantages and cultural similarities, how about they form a union to break away from the U.S.? These states combined would form the 4th largest economy in the world, behind only the remaining U.S., China, and Japan. 

Even though now in CT, as a native Californian, I'm so completely over CA being ruled by flyover country. Idaho, Wyoming, Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota, Kansas, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Utah, Colorado, all get two Senators and have LITTLE in common with Western coastal states. That's 20 Senators from 10 piddly states working against the interest of 6 Senators between WA, OR, and CA, who represent states comprising 1/4 the U.S. GDP. It's pretty much the definition of taxation without (commensurate) representation and is not acceptable any longer.

There is a lot of Russian SOCMED agitprop about CalExit on heels of Brexit to sow division, but it makes far, far more sense for CA, WA, and OR to break away from the U.S. as a group of states than for CA to go it alone. Maybe extend invites to Nevada and Arizona if they want in. Pacific Union anyone?

You had me until Arizona. No.

[terry]

Secession has been tried. It didn't go well.

[terry]

Secession has been tried. It didn't go well.

[oregontim]

I don't think the motivation is as conspiratorial as you implied, but it does suggest some gross incompetence and lack of preparation, leading to a poor execution.

Does anybody else think it's much more "me me me" lizard brain than conspiracy? It seems like he doesn't plan, or process, or even digest information. He just reacts, at about the level of a poorly-raised second grader.

I remember an episode of Twilight Zone in which a toddler's childish anger killed people. Horrific. And yes, all the adults were really, really nice to the kid.

---

Secession has been tried. It didn't go well.

If you Californians were willing to include we Oregonians plus Washington, I'd consider voting for it. Yeah, it's absurd, but so is so much that's happened this country since 2015.

[oregontim]

I don't think the motivation is as conspiratorial as you implied, but it does suggest some gross incompetence and lack of preparation, leading to a poor execution.

Does anybody else think it's much more "me me me" lizard brain than conspiracy? It seems like he doesn't plan, or process, or even digest information. He just reacts, at about the level of a poorly-raised second grader.

I remember an episode of Twilight Zone in which a toddler's childish anger killed people. Horrific. And yes, all the adults were really, really nice to the kid.

---

Secession has been tried. It didn't go well.

If you Californians were willing to include we Oregonians plus Washington, I'd consider voting for it. Yeah, it's absurd, but so is so much that's happened this country since 2015.

[BostonCard]

I remember this being discussed in 2016, to which there was a three-word answer - the Colorado River. Half of the State has inadequate water supply. It is not in fact self-sufficient. 


Not to mention that this issue was settled somewhat decisively 150 years ago.



So maybe we'd better stick together.  If an excess of masks results in some being steered to other areas of greater need, I do believe that's the way the system is supposed to work.

Thank you for pushing back against this silliness.  I am an American who lives in California; I am not a Californian.

BC

[BostonCard]

I remember this being discussed in 2016, to which there was a three-word answer - the Colorado River. Half of the State has inadequate water supply. It is not in fact self-sufficient. 


Not to mention that this issue was settled somewhat decisively 150 years ago.



So maybe we'd better stick together.  If an excess of masks results in some being steered to other areas of greater need, I do believe that's the way the system is supposed to work.

Thank you for pushing back against this silliness.  I am an American who lives in California; I am not a Californian.

BC

[Genuine Realist]

I don't think the motivation is as conspiratorial as you implied, but it does suggest some gross incompetence and lack of preparation, leading to a poor execution.

Does anybody else think it's much more "me me me" lizard brain than conspiracy? It seems like he doesn't plan, or process, or even digest information. He just reacts, at about the level of a poorly-raised second grader.

I remember an episode of Twilight Zone in which a toddler's childish anger killed people. Horrific. And yes, all the adults were really, really nice to the kid.

"It's A Good Life."

I'm very slow to use themes of incompetence and bungling. In my experience, the easiest problems to solve are someone else's. What's for sure is that the CDC was caught flatfooted by a phenomenon well beyond anything it had prepared for. Pearl Harbor analogies are appropriate.

[Genuine Realist]

I don't think the motivation is as conspiratorial as you implied, but it does suggest some gross incompetence and lack of preparation, leading to a poor execution.

Does anybody else think it's much more "me me me" lizard brain than conspiracy? It seems like he doesn't plan, or process, or even digest information. He just reacts, at about the level of a poorly-raised second grader.

I remember an episode of Twilight Zone in which a toddler's childish anger killed people. Horrific. And yes, all the adults were really, really nice to the kid.

"It's A Good Life."

I'm very slow to use themes of incompetence and bungling. In my experience, the easiest problems to solve are someone else's. What's for sure is that the CDC was caught flatfooted by a phenomenon well beyond anything it had prepared for. Pearl Harbor analogies are appropriate.

[BostonCard]

The CDC's entire raison d'etre is to respond to these phenomena.  That they were caught flatfooted is, in my mind, the most shocking aspect of this.  Compare their response to coronavirus to their response to Ebola, SARS, or pandemic influenza, where they were the agency that other countries turned to for advice.  One theory is that they were a victim of their own success, and the fact that they were able to lead the worldwide response to those epidemics made them let down their guard.  The second possibility is that they are responsive to the broader political environment and just as local leaders in Wuhan tried to quiet reports down because of real or perceived pressure from the central communist party, it is possible that CDC self-censored in order not to openly contradict the President when he publicly minimized the extent of the pandemic.  I doubt that there was overt political interference, but people are human and respond to the context into which they are placed.

BC

[BostonCard]

The CDC's entire raison d'etre is to respond to these phenomena.  That they were caught flatfooted is, in my mind, the most shocking aspect of this.  Compare their response to coronavirus to their response to Ebola, SARS, or pandemic influenza, where they were the agency that other countries turned to for advice.  One theory is that they were a victim of their own success, and the fact that they were able to lead the worldwide response to those epidemics made them let down their guard.  The second possibility is that they are responsive to the broader political environment and just as local leaders in Wuhan tried to quiet reports down because of real or perceived pressure from the central communist party, it is possible that CDC self-censored in order not to openly contradict the President when he publicly minimized the extent of the pandemic.  I doubt that there was overt political interference, but people are human and respond to the context into which they are placed.

BC

[Snorlax94]

In terms of CA getting 200 Million Masks / month, a CNN article reminds us:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/08/us/califo...index.html

1) CA was the first state to order a state-wide Shelter-In-Place
2) The Bay Area was the first city/region to declare a Shelter-In-Place
3) "The state's so ahead of the game on ventilators that it began sending 500 of its ventilators to hot spots in Illinois, New Jersey and New York on Tuesday...New Jersey Gov. Phil Murphy tweeted his state is "beyond grateful" to Newsom, and "we will repay the favor when California needs it."
4) Face coverings have been mandated in LA -- shopkeepers can reject customers without them.
5) Silicon Valley companies are among the first to implement work at home, well in advance of other businesses (except companies like Amazon/Microsoft in WA).
6) Governor Newsom was frustrated with the pace of testing in the state and said, "The testing space has been a challenging one for us, and I own that, and I have a responsibility as your governor to do better, and to do more testing in the state of California.” It's finally started improving, and he has created up a task force to deliver better.

Now add on top of this, CA lines up 200 million masks a month, and will share with other states in need.

The increased testing and PPE will be transformative.

Newsom is, IMO, far and away, the best executive leader dealing with Covid-19 in the US at this point. He's providing an example for the entire country and even helping other states in need.

[Snorlax94]

In terms of CA getting 200 Million Masks / month, a CNN article reminds us:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/08/us/califo...index.html

1) CA was the first state to order a state-wide Shelter-In-Place
2) The Bay Area was the first city/region to declare a Shelter-In-Place
3) "The state's so ahead of the game on ventilators that it began sending 500 of its ventilators to hot spots in Illinois, New Jersey and New York on Tuesday...New Jersey Gov. Phil Murphy tweeted his state is "beyond grateful" to Newsom, and "we will repay the favor when California needs it."
4) Face coverings have been mandated in LA -- shopkeepers can reject customers without them.
5) Silicon Valley companies are among the first to implement work at home, well in advance of other businesses (except companies like Amazon/Microsoft in WA).
6) Governor Newsom was frustrated with the pace of testing in the state and said, "The testing space has been a challenging one for us, and I own that, and I have a responsibility as your governor to do better, and to do more testing in the state of California.” It's finally started improving, and he has created up a task force to deliver better.

Now add on top of this, CA lines up 200 million masks a month, and will share with other states in need.

The increased testing and PPE will be transformative.

Newsom is, IMO, far and away, the best executive leader dealing with Covid-19 in the US at this point. He's providing an example for the entire country and even helping other states in need.

[oregontim]

Thank you for pushing back against this silliness.  I am an American who lives in California; I am not a Californian.



BC

Oops, good point. I've heard it called Cascadia, so I'd be a Cascadian not an Oregonian. And damn right, until then I'm an American who lives in Oregon.

To me, talk of secession is not serious, just an amusing lead-in into what is serious: popular vs. electoral vote, the Senate, checks and balances, core constitutional concepts.

[oregontim]

Thank you for pushing back against this silliness.  I am an American who lives in California; I am not a Californian.



BC

Oops, good point. I've heard it called Cascadia, so I'd be a Cascadian not an Oregonian. And damn right, until then I'm an American who lives in Oregon.

To me, talk of secession is not serious, just an amusing lead-in into what is serious: popular vs. electoral vote, the Senate, checks and balances, core constitutional concepts.

[82 Card]

The CDC's entire raison d'etre is to respond to these phenomena.  That they were caught flatfooted is, in my mind, the most shocking aspect of this.  Compare their response to coronavirus to their response to Ebola, SARS, or pandemic influenza, where they were the agency that other countries turned to for advice.  One theory is that they were a victim of their own success, and the fact that they were able to lead the worldwide response to those epidemics made them let down their guard.  The second possibility is that they are responsive to the broader political environment and just as local leaders in Wuhan tried to quiet reports down because of real or perceived pressure from the central communist party, it is possible that CDC self-censored in order not to openly contradict the President when he publicly minimized the extent of the pandemic.  I doubt that there was overt political interference, but people are human and respond to the context into which they are placed.

BC

I think the answer is C: all of the above.

[82 Card]

The CDC's entire raison d'etre is to respond to these phenomena.  That they were caught flatfooted is, in my mind, the most shocking aspect of this.  Compare their response to coronavirus to their response to Ebola, SARS, or pandemic influenza, where they were the agency that other countries turned to for advice.  One theory is that they were a victim of their own success, and the fact that they were able to lead the worldwide response to those epidemics made them let down their guard.  The second possibility is that they are responsive to the broader political environment and just as local leaders in Wuhan tried to quiet reports down because of real or perceived pressure from the central communist party, it is possible that CDC self-censored in order not to openly contradict the President when he publicly minimized the extent of the pandemic.  I doubt that there was overt political interference, but people are human and respond to the context into which they are placed.

BC

I think the answer is C: all of the above.