[Snorlax94]

(Also, it would not be shocking to discover that people are unreliable historians when it comes to whether they feel symptomatic enough to stay home.)

This is something I have been worrying about — is it possible that we have so many “asymptomatic” cases — proportionately more than in some countries and in some studies — because we are lying more?

People keep saying oh, I came back from a trip, but felt totally fine and went to a bunch of parties, and then, weirdly coincidentally, the next morning I started to feel sick, after interacting with thousands of people.

In that Korean Call Center study, when they did all the contact tracing, I think they found *no cases* of asymptomatic transmission. How is it that there can be such a stark difference between “asymptomatic” transmission between countries? 

One possibility is that some other countries define symptoms loosely — maybe someome sneezes due to allergies and they claim it’s a symptom, so everyone was “symptomatic.”

Another possibility is that people are lying to cover up their culpability.

It makes me wonder whether one of the keys for countries that are successfully containing (Taiwan and now, it appears, China) is ubiquitous touchless temperature screening at workplace and venue entrances, to reduce lying people with fevers. (Some ill people will inevitably just load up on tylenol and cough suppressant and go and socialize anyway)

[Snorlax94]

(Also, it would not be shocking to discover that people are unreliable historians when it comes to whether they feel symptomatic enough to stay home.)

This is something I have been worrying about — is it possible that we have so many “asymptomatic” cases — proportionately more than in some countries and in some studies — because we are lying more?

People keep saying oh, I came back from a trip, but felt totally fine and went to a bunch of parties, and then, weirdly coincidentally, the next morning I started to feel sick, after interacting with thousands of people.

In that Korean Call Center study, when they did all the contact tracing, I think they found *no cases* of asymptomatic transmission. How is it that there can be such a stark difference between “asymptomatic” transmission between countries? 

One possibility is that some other countries define symptoms loosely — maybe someome sneezes due to allergies and they claim it’s a symptom, so everyone was “symptomatic.”

Another possibility is that people are lying to cover up their culpability.

It makes me wonder whether one of the keys for countries that are successfully containing (Taiwan and now, it appears, China) is ubiquitous touchless temperature screening at workplace and venue entrances, to reduce lying people with fevers. (Some ill people will inevitably just load up on tylenol and cough suppressant and go and socialize anyway)

[dabigv13]

I think monitoring temperature is security theater, like the metal detectors at airports. It isn't actually making us safer. First off, touchless temp probes are just not very accurate, so even if someone has a fever, good chance it won't be picked up. Secondly, many people who have symptomatic, PCR positive covid, never have fever. And finally, if you do have a fever, odds are pretty low you're going to go shopping anyway.

Requiring masks would be a far more effective intervention than temperature screening.

[dabigv13]

I think monitoring temperature is security theater, like the metal detectors at airports. It isn't actually making us safer. First off, touchless temp probes are just not very accurate, so even if someone has a fever, good chance it won't be picked up. Secondly, many people who have symptomatic, PCR positive covid, never have fever. And finally, if you do have a fever, odds are pretty low you're going to go shopping anyway.

Requiring masks would be a far more effective intervention than temperature screening.

[OutsiderFan]

I think monitoring temperature is security theater, like the metal detectors at airports. It isn't actually making us safer. First off, touchless temp probes are just not very accurate, so even if someone has a fever, good chance it won't be picked up. Secondly, many people who have symptomatic, PCR positive covid, never have fever. And finally, if you do have a fever, odds are pretty low you're going to go shopping anyway.

Requiring masks would be a far more effective intervention than temperature screening.

Absolutely agree. The only sensible use case for a thermometer as a deterrent is if an employer requires on site fever confirmation to excuse someone from work. 

I once went through airport security with a screwdriver that had blood on the handle, totally by accident. So I know the limitations of TSA screening!

[OutsiderFan]

I think monitoring temperature is security theater, like the metal detectors at airports. It isn't actually making us safer. First off, touchless temp probes are just not very accurate, so even if someone has a fever, good chance it won't be picked up. Secondly, many people who have symptomatic, PCR positive covid, never have fever. And finally, if you do have a fever, odds are pretty low you're going to go shopping anyway.

Requiring masks would be a far more effective intervention than temperature screening.

Absolutely agree. The only sensible use case for a thermometer as a deterrent is if an employer requires on site fever confirmation to excuse someone from work. 

I once went through airport security with a screwdriver that had blood on the handle, totally by accident. So I know the limitations of TSA screening!

[BostonCard]

Speaking of the TSA:

https://apnews.com/78c23e2d630846383af00ceeaed7232b

The Transportation Security Administration said Monday that it found 58 guns at checkpoints from March 22 to April 22, compared with 346 guns over the same stretch last year.

Adjusting for the 95% drop in travelers, that means TSA screeners found one gun for every 80,000 people screened — or 2.7 times the rate of a year ago, when they found one gun for every 216,200 people.

This means one of two things.  Either the type of person to fly in the midst of a pandemic is disproportionately the type of person who would try to carry a gun through a TSA security checkpoint, or TSA agents were missing about 3/4 of the guns that made it to checkpoints because they were so busy.

BC

[BostonCard]

Speaking of the TSA:

https://apnews.com/78c23e2d630846383af00ceeaed7232b

The Transportation Security Administration said Monday that it found 58 guns at checkpoints from March 22 to April 22, compared with 346 guns over the same stretch last year.

Adjusting for the 95% drop in travelers, that means TSA screeners found one gun for every 80,000 people screened — or 2.7 times the rate of a year ago, when they found one gun for every 216,200 people.

This means one of two things.  Either the type of person to fly in the midst of a pandemic is disproportionately the type of person who would try to carry a gun through a TSA security checkpoint, or TSA agents were missing about 3/4 of the guns that made it to checkpoints because they were so busy.

BC

[fullmetal]

Also regarding temperature sensors -- what happens if you just sprinted from the parking lot to the airport terminal or office building?  Does your temperature read fairly high and earn you a two-week lockdown?  Theater indeed.

[fullmetal]

Also regarding temperature sensors -- what happens if you just sprinted from the parking lot to the airport terminal or office building?  Does your temperature read fairly high and earn you a two-week lockdown?  Theater indeed.

[Farm93]

The things aren't THAT bad.   

Let's remember here in the USA there are loads of people that need to work to pay bills, so they will go to work even with a fever of 102 just to save their job or get their hours.   It would be nice to keep those folks in the parking lot.

The fever meters are rather common in Asia.   So at this point if it is something they do in Asia, I am inclined to believe we should do it too. 

Face masks - Check!
Fever meters - Check!
Bow instead of hand shakes - Check!

[Farm93]

The things aren't THAT bad.   

Let's remember here in the USA there are loads of people that need to work to pay bills, so they will go to work even with a fever of 102 just to save their job or get their hours.   It would be nice to keep those folks in the parking lot.

The fever meters are rather common in Asia.   So at this point if it is something they do in Asia, I am inclined to believe we should do it too. 

Face masks - Check!
Fever meters - Check!
Bow instead of hand shakes - Check!

[Leftcoast]

"The things aren't THAT bad .... The fever meters are rather common in Asia.   So at this point if it is something they do in Asia, I am inclined to believe we should do it too. - Farm93"

Yup - The fever meters for disembarking passengers in Singapore, Taipei and HK (and I believe Japan although they were less obvious there) were put in place during the SARs epidemic and have been used continuously since then.  They look pretty darn good to me.  I doubt that's the quality level we would have at the average US office building but to discount them as totally worthless is provincial even if they may not catch a truly asymptomatic subject.

https://medium.com/0xmachina/applying-in...5b2dc8a6cb

[Leftcoast]

"The things aren't THAT bad .... The fever meters are rather common in Asia.   So at this point if it is something they do in Asia, I am inclined to believe we should do it too. - Farm93"

Yup - The fever meters for disembarking passengers in Singapore, Taipei and HK (and I believe Japan although they were less obvious there) were put in place during the SARs epidemic and have been used continuously since then.  They look pretty darn good to me.  I doubt that's the quality level we would have at the average US office building but to discount them as totally worthless is provincial even if they may not catch a truly asymptomatic subject.

https://medium.com/0xmachina/applying-in...5b2dc8a6cb

[2006alum]

Why am I not surprised?

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Acosta/status/1257782205704634368?s=20[/tweet]

[2006alum]

Why am I not surprised?

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Acosta/status/1257782205704634368?s=20[/tweet]

[BostonCard]

FW(very little)IW

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Acosta/status/1257784056592252928?s=20[/tweet]

BC

[BostonCard]

FW(very little)IW

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Acosta/status/1257784056592252928?s=20[/tweet]

BC

[Leftcoast]

It would appear neither are the photographers.  

Trump will be Trump and if he believes a mask makes him look weak or doesn't let him communicate easily then his pattern is set and he is unlikely to change.  At this point I'm saving my outrage for other things, of which there are many. 

[Leftcoast]

It would appear neither are the photographers.  

Trump will be Trump and if he believes a mask makes him look weak or doesn't let him communicate easily then his pattern is set and he is unlikely to change.  At this point I'm saving my outrage for other things, of which there are many. 

[BostonCard]

At least one of the photographers has something tied behind his head, which I assume is a mask.  The other two I can't tell one way or another.  But I agree with your broader point; there are so many other things to worry about, than whether he wears a mask or not is probably not worth the spilled electrons.

BC

[BostonCard]

At least one of the photographers has something tied behind his head, which I assume is a mask.  The other two I can't tell one way or another.  But I agree with your broader point; there are so many other things to worry about, than whether he wears a mask or not is probably not worth the spilled electrons.

BC

[dabigv13]

I'm not surprised by it, but it's another giant failing of this president that he can't even model behavior that will save lives because of.....vanity? Stubbornness? It's just so infuriating that even the lowest hanging fruit is out of reach for our POTUS. He just doesn't want to be bothered to take any responsibility for anything.

[dabigv13]

I'm not surprised by it, but it's another giant failing of this president that he can't even model behavior that will save lives because of.....vanity? Stubbornness? It's just so infuriating that even the lowest hanging fruit is out of reach for our POTUS. He just doesn't want to be bothered to take any responsibility for anything.

[magnus]

Rand Paul won't wear a mask because he says he's immune. 

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/rand-pa...oronavirus

I guess chances and hopes are that he's right, but if he's not,  he'll provide proof that we're all screwed. 

Until then,  i guess he can't use the virus as an excuse to stay away from anyone he doesn't like.

[magnus]

Rand Paul won't wear a mask because he says he's immune. 

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/rand-pa...oronavirus

I guess chances and hopes are that he's right, but if he's not,  he'll provide proof that we're all screwed. 

Until then,  i guess he can't use the virus as an excuse to stay away from anyone he doesn't like.

[Snorlax94]

It matters because politicians should be modeling behaviors.

Watching leaders — including Pence, Trump, Newsom, many politicians — the internalized message is that masks aren’t necessary, masks make you look weak, and the rules don’t apply to everyone. Is it any wonder we have such difficulty enforcing lockdown rules? I wish our leaders weren’t so vain. It will be sad but perhaps fitting if our collective downfall is due to vanity.

[Snorlax94]

It matters because politicians should be modeling behaviors.

Watching leaders — including Pence, Trump, Newsom, many politicians — the internalized message is that masks aren’t necessary, masks make you look weak, and the rules don’t apply to everyone. Is it any wonder we have such difficulty enforcing lockdown rules? I wish our leaders weren’t so vain. It will be sad but perhaps fitting if our collective downfall is due to vanity.

[burger]

Someone at Honeywell is a master-level prankster: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/05/coronavi...-tour.html

At one point during his tour, the Guns N’ Roses cover of the James Bond movie song “Live and Let Die” was being blasted from the factory’s PA system, as workers performed their tasks.

[burger]

Someone at Honeywell is a master-level prankster: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/05/coronavi...-tour.html

At one point during his tour, the Guns N’ Roses cover of the James Bond movie song “Live and Let Die” was being blasted from the factory’s PA system, as workers performed their tasks.

[Mick]

Someone at Honeywell is a master-level prankster: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/05/coronavi...-tour.html

At one point during his tour, the Guns N’ Roses cover of the James Bond movie song “Live and Let Die” was being blasted from the factory’s PA system, as workers performed their tasks.

Could add Blue Oyster Cult's "Don't Fear the Reaper" but the best for a Trump tour would be R.E.M.'s "It's the End of the World as We Know It (And I Feel Fine)".  AC/DC's Highway to Hell as he departs.  Could make an entire master list.

[Mick]

Someone at Honeywell is a master-level prankster: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/05/coronavi...-tour.html

At one point during his tour, the Guns N’ Roses cover of the James Bond movie song “Live and Let Die” was being blasted from the factory’s PA system, as workers performed their tasks.

Could add Blue Oyster Cult's "Don't Fear the Reaper" but the best for a Trump tour would be R.E.M.'s "It's the End of the World as We Know It (And I Feel Fine)".  AC/DC's Highway to Hell as he departs.  Could make an entire master list.

[76lsjumb]

It matters because politicians should be modeling behaviors.

Watching leaders — including Pence, Trump, Newsom, many politicians — the internalized message is that masks aren’t necessary, masks make you look weak, and the rules don’t apply to everyone. Is it any wonder we have such difficulty enforcing lockdown rules? I wish our leaders weren’t so vain. It will be sad but perhaps fitting if our collective downfall is due to vanity.

So, just wondering?  Are you not wearing a mask because you see that Trump, Newsom, and Pence [who apologized, by the way] aren't wearing them?  Or is it just that you assume all those other rubes -- you know, the other stupid Americans that mindlessly do what their leaders do -- and not the enlightened progressives like you and your friends, that you're talking about?

I won't assume you're that vain, though, and that you look down on everyone else.  I would urge you to wear a mask notwithstanding what the politicians do.  i would also urge you to show a little respect for your fellow Americans.

[76lsjumb]

It matters because politicians should be modeling behaviors.

Watching leaders — including Pence, Trump, Newsom, many politicians — the internalized message is that masks aren’t necessary, masks make you look weak, and the rules don’t apply to everyone. Is it any wonder we have such difficulty enforcing lockdown rules? I wish our leaders weren’t so vain. It will be sad but perhaps fitting if our collective downfall is due to vanity.

So, just wondering?  Are you not wearing a mask because you see that Trump, Newsom, and Pence [who apologized, by the way] aren't wearing them?  Or is it just that you assume all those other rubes -- you know, the other stupid Americans that mindlessly do what their leaders do -- and not the enlightened progressives like you and your friends, that you're talking about?

I won't assume you're that vain, though, and that you look down on everyone else.  I would urge you to wear a mask notwithstanding what the politicians do.  i would also urge you to show a little respect for your fellow Americans.

[Snorlax94]

It matters because politicians should be modeling behaviors.

Watching leaders — including Pence, Trump, Newsom, many politicians — the internalized message is that masks aren’t necessary, masks make you look weak, and the rules don’t apply to everyone. Is it any wonder we have such difficulty enforcing lockdown rules? I wish our leaders weren’t so vain. It will be sad but perhaps fitting if our collective downfall is due to vanity.

So, just wondering?  Are you not wearing a mask because you see that Trump, Newsom, and Pence [who apologized, by the way] aren't wearing them?  Or is it just that you assume all those other rubes -- you know, the other stupid Americans that mindlessly do what their leaders do -- and not the enlightened progressives like you and your friends, that you're talking about?

I won't assume you're that vain, though, and that you look down on everyone else.  I would urge you to wear a mask notwithstanding what the politicians do.  i would also urge you to show a little respect for your fellow Americans.

I think my point was a fair one, and, you might notice, called out both Republican and Democratic politicians.

I’ll let my post represent my views and myself as a person and let your post represent your views and you.

[Snorlax94]

It matters because politicians should be modeling behaviors.

Watching leaders — including Pence, Trump, Newsom, many politicians — the internalized message is that masks aren’t necessary, masks make you look weak, and the rules don’t apply to everyone. Is it any wonder we have such difficulty enforcing lockdown rules? I wish our leaders weren’t so vain. It will be sad but perhaps fitting if our collective downfall is due to vanity.

So, just wondering?  Are you not wearing a mask because you see that Trump, Newsom, and Pence [who apologized, by the way] aren't wearing them?  Or is it just that you assume all those other rubes -- you know, the other stupid Americans that mindlessly do what their leaders do -- and not the enlightened progressives like you and your friends, that you're talking about?

I won't assume you're that vain, though, and that you look down on everyone else.  I would urge you to wear a mask notwithstanding what the politicians do.  i would also urge you to show a little respect for your fellow Americans.

I think my point was a fair one, and, you might notice, called out both Republican and Democratic politicians.

I’ll let my post represent my views and myself as a person and let your post represent your views and you.

[pefloresjr]

So, just wondering?  Are you not wearing a mask because you see that Trump, Newsom, and Pence [who apologized, by the way] aren't wearing them?  Or is it just that you assume all those other rubes -- you know, the other stupid Americans that mindlessly do what their leaders do -- and not the enlightened progressives like you and your friends, that you're talking about?

I won't assume you're that vain, though, and that you look down on everyone else.  I would urge you to wear a mask notwithstanding what the politicians do.  i would also urge you to show a little respect for your fellow Americans.

Seriously?  You could have stated that you don't think modeling by leaders is important and underestimates the intelligence of most Americans.  Instead, you attack a fellow Cardboard member by categorizing them as "enlightened progressives like you and your friends."  That adds nothing to the signal of The Cardboard.  Please reconsider your approach. 

Cheers,
Pete F.

[pefloresjr]

So, just wondering?  Are you not wearing a mask because you see that Trump, Newsom, and Pence [who apologized, by the way] aren't wearing them?  Or is it just that you assume all those other rubes -- you know, the other stupid Americans that mindlessly do what their leaders do -- and not the enlightened progressives like you and your friends, that you're talking about?

I won't assume you're that vain, though, and that you look down on everyone else.  I would urge you to wear a mask notwithstanding what the politicians do.  i would also urge you to show a little respect for your fellow Americans.

Seriously?  You could have stated that you don't think modeling by leaders is important and underestimates the intelligence of most Americans.  Instead, you attack a fellow Cardboard member by categorizing them as "enlightened progressives like you and your friends."  That adds nothing to the signal of The Cardboard.  Please reconsider your approach. 

Cheers,
Pete F.

[Leftcoast]

On the other hand, you could also refer to tonight’s other thread showing large crowds without a mask in sight, standing in tight file, and carrying enough MAGA signs for a mid-sized rally.

A few of THOSE guys might be swayed by their President wearing a mask.

[Leftcoast]

On the other hand, you could also refer to tonight’s other thread showing large crowds without a mask in sight, standing in tight file, and carrying enough MAGA signs for a mid-sized rally.

A few of THOSE guys might be swayed by their President wearing a mask.