06-24-2020, 04:14 PM
[tweet]https://twitter.com/jduchneskie/status/1275789513210703878[/tweet]
Anti-mask crowd obliterated in one tweet
[tweet]https://twitter.com/jduchneskie/status/1275789513210703878[/tweet]
06-24-2020, 04:47 PM
All for wearing masks. But to suggest this THE reason is a bit much. And if you doubt that, take Calif.
06-24-2020, 06:30 PM
I wouldn’t say masks is 100% of it, but nothing is 100% of it.
I’d say masks is the single largest, most impactful thing people in a state can actually change.
Although cases in CA are growing, and are certainly higher than I’d like, CA is doing remarkably well considering the challenges it faced: like Seattle and NY, it has a lot of international airports and has 2 of the airports used to repatriate citizens from
China, like Texas, it shares a southern border, like NY or Italy, it has large cities with high population density.
Considering all that, yeah, states that require masks do much better than states in similar states that do not require masks.
And the hot spots in CA, like Orange County, are kind of like Arizona and Texas.
I’d say masks is the single largest, most impactful thing people in a state can actually change.
Although cases in CA are growing, and are certainly higher than I’d like, CA is doing remarkably well considering the challenges it faced: like Seattle and NY, it has a lot of international airports and has 2 of the airports used to repatriate citizens from
China, like Texas, it shares a southern border, like NY or Italy, it has large cities with high population density.
Considering all that, yeah, states that require masks do much better than states in similar states that do not require masks.
And the hot spots in CA, like Orange County, are kind of like Arizona and Texas.
I wouldn’t say masks is 100% of it, but nothing is 100% of it.
I’d say masks is the single largest, most impactful thing people in a state can actually change.
Although cases in CA are growing, and are certainly higher than I’d like, CA is doing remarkably well considering the challenges it faced: like Seattle and NY, it has a lot of international airports and has 2 of the airports used to repatriate citizens from
China, like Texas, it shares a southern border, like NY or Italy, it has large cities with high population density.
Considering all that, yeah, states that require masks do much better than states in similar states that do not require masks.
And the hot spots in CA, like Orange County, are kind of like Arizona and Texas.
I’d say masks is the single largest, most impactful thing people in a state can actually change.
Although cases in CA are growing, and are certainly higher than I’d like, CA is doing remarkably well considering the challenges it faced: like Seattle and NY, it has a lot of international airports and has 2 of the airports used to repatriate citizens from
China, like Texas, it shares a southern border, like NY or Italy, it has large cities with high population density.
Considering all that, yeah, states that require masks do much better than states in similar states that do not require masks.
And the hot spots in CA, like Orange County, are kind of like Arizona and Texas.
06-24-2020, 10:02 PM
Virtually all masks I see in public are not N95. I wonder how efficient the cloth/paper/decorative masks are that I see all the time in public?
I imagine they help if the person wearing them coughs or sneezes into the mask. Other than that, are they much good?
I imagine they help if the person wearing them coughs or sneezes into the mask. Other than that, are they much good?
Audaces fortuna iuvat
Virtually all masks I see in public are not N95. I wonder how efficient the cloth/paper/decorative masks are that I see all the time in public?
I imagine they help if the person wearing them coughs or sneezes into the mask. Other than that, are they much good?
I imagine they help if the person wearing them coughs or sneezes into the mask. Other than that, are they much good?
Audaces fortuna iuvat
(06-24-2020, 10:02 PM)Mick Wrote: Virtually all masks I see in public are not N95. I wonder how efficient the cloth/paper/decorative masks are that I see all the time in public?
I imagine they help if the person wearing them coughs or sneezes into the mask. Other than that, are they much good?
Even if it were only 60% effective, that would have a brobdingnagian effect on the speed of transmission.
Nevada governor rips citizens for exercising poor judgment (including himself).
Imposes mandatory mask requirement.
Typical social media reaction:
LOL yes I will conform to whatever the Governor of Nevada says to make my health & well being better & others. ?
JUST KIDDING!
(06-24-2020, 10:02 PM)Mick Wrote: Virtually all masks I see in public are not N95. I wonder how efficient the cloth/paper/decorative masks are that I see all the time in public?
I imagine they help if the person wearing them coughs or sneezes into the mask. Other than that, are they much good?
Even if it were only 60% effective, that would have a brobdingnagian effect on the speed of transmission.
Nevada governor rips citizens for exercising poor judgment (including himself).
Imposes mandatory mask requirement.
Typical social media reaction:
LOL yes I will conform to whatever the Governor of Nevada says to make my health & well being better & others. ?
JUST KIDDING!
(06-24-2020, 10:02 PM)Mick Wrote: Virtually all masks I see in public are not N95. I wonder how efficient the cloth/paper/decorative masks are that I see all the time in public?
I imagine they help if the person wearing them coughs or sneezes into the mask. Other than that, are they much good?
They prevent widespread droplet and aerosol spread. It's been discussed ad nauseam here.
Orange County has decided not to comply. I don't know what is wrong with these people.
https://voiceofoc.org/2020/06/ocs-lack-o...out-money/
(06-24-2020, 10:02 PM)Mick Wrote: Virtually all masks I see in public are not N95. I wonder how efficient the cloth/paper/decorative masks are that I see all the time in public?
I imagine they help if the person wearing them coughs or sneezes into the mask. Other than that, are they much good?
They prevent widespread droplet and aerosol spread. It's been discussed ad nauseam here.
Orange County has decided not to comply. I don't know what is wrong with these people.
https://voiceofoc.org/2020/06/ocs-lack-o...out-money/
06-24-2020, 11:59 PM
Most major counties in Texas have very recently instituted mandatory mask requirements for businesses and the like (public indoor spaces). These are county-level requirements (enforceable by fine, finally), not state-level requirements (because Abbott fears red state backlash).
Also, the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission has been closing down bars for failure to adhere to Abbott's distancing requirements...this is the first time I think a lot of Texans are rooting for TABC to close down bars. Usually TABC is known for carrying out sting operations against alcohol-selling establishments to enforce age limits and sales hours related to alcohol sales.
Also, the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission has been closing down bars for failure to adhere to Abbott's distancing requirements...this is the first time I think a lot of Texans are rooting for TABC to close down bars. Usually TABC is known for carrying out sting operations against alcohol-selling establishments to enforce age limits and sales hours related to alcohol sales.
Most major counties in Texas have very recently instituted mandatory mask requirements for businesses and the like (public indoor spaces). These are county-level requirements (enforceable by fine, finally), not state-level requirements (because Abbott fears red state backlash).
Also, the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission has been closing down bars for failure to adhere to Abbott's distancing requirements...this is the first time I think a lot of Texans are rooting for TABC to close down bars. Usually TABC is known for carrying out sting operations against alcohol-selling establishments to enforce age limits and sales hours related to alcohol sales.
Also, the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission has been closing down bars for failure to adhere to Abbott's distancing requirements...this is the first time I think a lot of Texans are rooting for TABC to close down bars. Usually TABC is known for carrying out sting operations against alcohol-selling establishments to enforce age limits and sales hours related to alcohol sales.
And yet the anti-maskers continue... this doesn’t bode well fot Arizona. See the pictures in the article below.
https://www.azcentral.com/picture-galler...252585001/
Plus, a video of Florida being Florida...
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020...us-vpx.cnn
https://www.azcentral.com/picture-galler...252585001/
Quote:'I can't breathe': Scottsdale councilman uses words of George Floyd to protest masks
Guy Phillips posted a flyer on Facebook on Saturday asking residents to join him to protest mandatory mask wearing. The protest was titled "Unmask Us" and asked "Any Citizen of AZ who believes wearing a mask is a personal choice, and not a mandate" to "put your best face forward."
He encouraged residents to bring masks, water and sanitizer to the rally.
Phillips, with a mask around his chin, talked with people ahead of the rally. He had a mask in place as he took the stage, the crowd calling out for him to take it off.
Phillips addressed the 200 or so people by pulling off his mask and saying, "I can't breathe," the words spoken by George Floyd before he died last month at the hands of Minneapolis police.
Plus, a video of Florida being Florida...
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020...us-vpx.cnn
And yet the anti-maskers continue... this doesn’t bode well fot Arizona. See the pictures in the article below.
https://www.azcentral.com/picture-galler...252585001/
Plus, a video of Florida being Florida...
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020...us-vpx.cnn
https://www.azcentral.com/picture-galler...252585001/
Quote:'I can't breathe': Scottsdale councilman uses words of George Floyd to protest masks
Guy Phillips posted a flyer on Facebook on Saturday asking residents to join him to protest mandatory mask wearing. The protest was titled "Unmask Us" and asked "Any Citizen of AZ who believes wearing a mask is a personal choice, and not a mandate" to "put your best face forward."
He encouraged residents to bring masks, water and sanitizer to the rally.
Phillips, with a mask around his chin, talked with people ahead of the rally. He had a mask in place as he took the stage, the crowd calling out for him to take it off.
Phillips addressed the 200 or so people by pulling off his mask and saying, "I can't breathe," the words spoken by George Floyd before he died last month at the hands of Minneapolis police.
Plus, a video of Florida being Florida...
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020...us-vpx.cnn
06-25-2020, 03:36 AM
You can’t fix stupid.
The United States has too many cosmically stupid people in it, even in positions of law making that leaders are suppose to occupy. This pandemic is making it clear anti-science and anti-intellectualism is the real disease in America. The behind woodshed beating this virus is administering to our country is but just a symptom of a far more insidious disease than Covid-19.
The delta between the cost of masks and the damage caused by not wearing them is one that should shame and humiliate America for eternity.
Anyone at this point doing anything other than advocating for mask wearing, is like a Southerner saying the Confederate flag isn’t a symbol of racism. It’s just a patently absurd position to take that betrays a level of selfishness and lack of respect to others that results in mass suffering for everyone.
Combine stupidity with selfishness and you get a toxic combination of behavior that will kill off humanity before Mother Nature does. We simply must start thinking and caring about others with our actions or there is much more pain and suffering of all kinds ahead of us.
The United States has too many cosmically stupid people in it, even in positions of law making that leaders are suppose to occupy. This pandemic is making it clear anti-science and anti-intellectualism is the real disease in America. The behind woodshed beating this virus is administering to our country is but just a symptom of a far more insidious disease than Covid-19.
The delta between the cost of masks and the damage caused by not wearing them is one that should shame and humiliate America for eternity.
Anyone at this point doing anything other than advocating for mask wearing, is like a Southerner saying the Confederate flag isn’t a symbol of racism. It’s just a patently absurd position to take that betrays a level of selfishness and lack of respect to others that results in mass suffering for everyone.
Combine stupidity with selfishness and you get a toxic combination of behavior that will kill off humanity before Mother Nature does. We simply must start thinking and caring about others with our actions or there is much more pain and suffering of all kinds ahead of us.
You can’t fix stupid.
The United States has too many cosmically stupid people in it, even in positions of law making that leaders are suppose to occupy. This pandemic is making it clear anti-science and anti-intellectualism is the real disease in America. The behind woodshed beating this virus is administering to our country is but just a symptom of a far more insidious disease than Covid-19.
The delta between the cost of masks and the damage caused by not wearing them is one that should shame and humiliate America for eternity.
Anyone at this point doing anything other than advocating for mask wearing, is like a Southerner saying the Confederate flag isn’t a symbol of racism. It’s just a patently absurd position to take that betrays a level of selfishness and lack of respect to others that results in mass suffering for everyone.
Combine stupidity with selfishness and you get a toxic combination of behavior that will kill off humanity before Mother Nature does. We simply must start thinking and caring about others with our actions or there is much more pain and suffering of all kinds ahead of us.
The United States has too many cosmically stupid people in it, even in positions of law making that leaders are suppose to occupy. This pandemic is making it clear anti-science and anti-intellectualism is the real disease in America. The behind woodshed beating this virus is administering to our country is but just a symptom of a far more insidious disease than Covid-19.
The delta between the cost of masks and the damage caused by not wearing them is one that should shame and humiliate America for eternity.
Anyone at this point doing anything other than advocating for mask wearing, is like a Southerner saying the Confederate flag isn’t a symbol of racism. It’s just a patently absurd position to take that betrays a level of selfishness and lack of respect to others that results in mass suffering for everyone.
Combine stupidity with selfishness and you get a toxic combination of behavior that will kill off humanity before Mother Nature does. We simply must start thinking and caring about others with our actions or there is much more pain and suffering of all kinds ahead of us.
06-25-2020, 05:53 AM
I came across this comment on Reddit that explains why some people refuse to wear masks. It seems so irrational to not wear a mask right now, but when viewed through the lens of a Loyalty Test it makes more sense albeit twisted and wrong.
"Mask wearing in the USA has become a loyalty test for certain groups of people. In most other countries dealing with the COVID-19 crisis, mask wearing is simply a preventative public health measure. In the USA, however President Trump initially downplayed the significance of the pandemic and was criticized for this. As a result he doubled down and signaled to his followers that their group should treat the disease as fake and that people taking the disease seriously would be enemies. As u/Boxboy7 correctly pointed out, Trump has explicitly signaled that people wearing face masks are his enemy.
Humans live in groups and Loyalty Tests are an important part of human social cohesion. A Loyalty Test involves some kind of social signal that tells other people what group you belong to. The bigger and more dangerous the signal is, the more valuable it is to your in-group. For example, Yakuza in Japan will get extravagant full body tattoos and cut off their pinky to demonstrate their loyalty to their group. Both demonstrate that you have put yourself through extreme amounts of pain and have permanently marked yourself as part of the gang. This is such an extreme expression of loyalty that you have basically stated to the group that you are with them forever until you die, because you literally cannot leave the gang and rejoin normal society because you are marked for life. In return the group will protect you.
All human social groups have Loyalty Tests and signals of one sort or another. Sometimes it's an obvious thing like flying a flag, or speaking with a recognizable accent or language. You could also be sharing certain articles or memes on social media. If you're filling up your posts with memes supporting BLM then you are clearly signalling your loyalty to a certain social group. They are often part of rituals, especially if you are seeking admission to a group. Think of hazing at college fraternities and sororities. Extreme hazing means you've earned your spot.
Seen in this way, face masks are sort of the ideal expression of loyalty to certain social groups in today's society. Face masks are a very visible marker, they are literally worn on the face, the seat of our identity. This has historical precedent, see the Anti-Facemask League that was formed as San Francisco dealt with the Spanish Flu in 1918. In general, Loyalty Tests are more powerful when they are socially visible and incur risk. If no one can see your action and if your action was easy and riskless, then it's kind of worthless at demonstrating your loyalty. Refusing to wear a face mask is extremely visible and incurs the risk of getting a debilitating disease and is thus an extremely powerful loyalty test."
https://old.reddit.com/r/TalesFromYourSe...k/fvspfvb/
"Mask wearing in the USA has become a loyalty test for certain groups of people. In most other countries dealing with the COVID-19 crisis, mask wearing is simply a preventative public health measure. In the USA, however President Trump initially downplayed the significance of the pandemic and was criticized for this. As a result he doubled down and signaled to his followers that their group should treat the disease as fake and that people taking the disease seriously would be enemies. As u/Boxboy7 correctly pointed out, Trump has explicitly signaled that people wearing face masks are his enemy.
Humans live in groups and Loyalty Tests are an important part of human social cohesion. A Loyalty Test involves some kind of social signal that tells other people what group you belong to. The bigger and more dangerous the signal is, the more valuable it is to your in-group. For example, Yakuza in Japan will get extravagant full body tattoos and cut off their pinky to demonstrate their loyalty to their group. Both demonstrate that you have put yourself through extreme amounts of pain and have permanently marked yourself as part of the gang. This is such an extreme expression of loyalty that you have basically stated to the group that you are with them forever until you die, because you literally cannot leave the gang and rejoin normal society because you are marked for life. In return the group will protect you.
All human social groups have Loyalty Tests and signals of one sort or another. Sometimes it's an obvious thing like flying a flag, or speaking with a recognizable accent or language. You could also be sharing certain articles or memes on social media. If you're filling up your posts with memes supporting BLM then you are clearly signalling your loyalty to a certain social group. They are often part of rituals, especially if you are seeking admission to a group. Think of hazing at college fraternities and sororities. Extreme hazing means you've earned your spot.
Seen in this way, face masks are sort of the ideal expression of loyalty to certain social groups in today's society. Face masks are a very visible marker, they are literally worn on the face, the seat of our identity. This has historical precedent, see the Anti-Facemask League that was formed as San Francisco dealt with the Spanish Flu in 1918. In general, Loyalty Tests are more powerful when they are socially visible and incur risk. If no one can see your action and if your action was easy and riskless, then it's kind of worthless at demonstrating your loyalty. Refusing to wear a face mask is extremely visible and incurs the risk of getting a debilitating disease and is thus an extremely powerful loyalty test."
https://old.reddit.com/r/TalesFromYourSe...k/fvspfvb/
I came across this comment on Reddit that explains why some people refuse to wear masks. It seems so irrational to not wear a mask right now, but when viewed through the lens of a Loyalty Test it makes more sense albeit twisted and wrong.
"Mask wearing in the USA has become a loyalty test for certain groups of people. In most other countries dealing with the COVID-19 crisis, mask wearing is simply a preventative public health measure. In the USA, however President Trump initially downplayed the significance of the pandemic and was criticized for this. As a result he doubled down and signaled to his followers that their group should treat the disease as fake and that people taking the disease seriously would be enemies. As u/Boxboy7 correctly pointed out, Trump has explicitly signaled that people wearing face masks are his enemy.
Humans live in groups and Loyalty Tests are an important part of human social cohesion. A Loyalty Test involves some kind of social signal that tells other people what group you belong to. The bigger and more dangerous the signal is, the more valuable it is to your in-group. For example, Yakuza in Japan will get extravagant full body tattoos and cut off their pinky to demonstrate their loyalty to their group. Both demonstrate that you have put yourself through extreme amounts of pain and have permanently marked yourself as part of the gang. This is such an extreme expression of loyalty that you have basically stated to the group that you are with them forever until you die, because you literally cannot leave the gang and rejoin normal society because you are marked for life. In return the group will protect you.
All human social groups have Loyalty Tests and signals of one sort or another. Sometimes it's an obvious thing like flying a flag, or speaking with a recognizable accent or language. You could also be sharing certain articles or memes on social media. If you're filling up your posts with memes supporting BLM then you are clearly signalling your loyalty to a certain social group. They are often part of rituals, especially if you are seeking admission to a group. Think of hazing at college fraternities and sororities. Extreme hazing means you've earned your spot.
Seen in this way, face masks are sort of the ideal expression of loyalty to certain social groups in today's society. Face masks are a very visible marker, they are literally worn on the face, the seat of our identity. This has historical precedent, see the Anti-Facemask League that was formed as San Francisco dealt with the Spanish Flu in 1918. In general, Loyalty Tests are more powerful when they are socially visible and incur risk. If no one can see your action and if your action was easy and riskless, then it's kind of worthless at demonstrating your loyalty. Refusing to wear a face mask is extremely visible and incurs the risk of getting a debilitating disease and is thus an extremely powerful loyalty test."
https://old.reddit.com/r/TalesFromYourSe...k/fvspfvb/
"Mask wearing in the USA has become a loyalty test for certain groups of people. In most other countries dealing with the COVID-19 crisis, mask wearing is simply a preventative public health measure. In the USA, however President Trump initially downplayed the significance of the pandemic and was criticized for this. As a result he doubled down and signaled to his followers that their group should treat the disease as fake and that people taking the disease seriously would be enemies. As u/Boxboy7 correctly pointed out, Trump has explicitly signaled that people wearing face masks are his enemy.
Humans live in groups and Loyalty Tests are an important part of human social cohesion. A Loyalty Test involves some kind of social signal that tells other people what group you belong to. The bigger and more dangerous the signal is, the more valuable it is to your in-group. For example, Yakuza in Japan will get extravagant full body tattoos and cut off their pinky to demonstrate their loyalty to their group. Both demonstrate that you have put yourself through extreme amounts of pain and have permanently marked yourself as part of the gang. This is such an extreme expression of loyalty that you have basically stated to the group that you are with them forever until you die, because you literally cannot leave the gang and rejoin normal society because you are marked for life. In return the group will protect you.
All human social groups have Loyalty Tests and signals of one sort or another. Sometimes it's an obvious thing like flying a flag, or speaking with a recognizable accent or language. You could also be sharing certain articles or memes on social media. If you're filling up your posts with memes supporting BLM then you are clearly signalling your loyalty to a certain social group. They are often part of rituals, especially if you are seeking admission to a group. Think of hazing at college fraternities and sororities. Extreme hazing means you've earned your spot.
Seen in this way, face masks are sort of the ideal expression of loyalty to certain social groups in today's society. Face masks are a very visible marker, they are literally worn on the face, the seat of our identity. This has historical precedent, see the Anti-Facemask League that was formed as San Francisco dealt with the Spanish Flu in 1918. In general, Loyalty Tests are more powerful when they are socially visible and incur risk. If no one can see your action and if your action was easy and riskless, then it's kind of worthless at demonstrating your loyalty. Refusing to wear a face mask is extremely visible and incurs the risk of getting a debilitating disease and is thus an extremely powerful loyalty test."
https://old.reddit.com/r/TalesFromYourSe...k/fvspfvb/
06-25-2020, 06:49 AM
(06-25-2020, 05:53 AM)Publius Wrote: I came across this comment on Reddit that explains why some people refuse to wear masks. It seems so irrational to not wear a mask right now, but when viewed through the lens of a Loyalty Test it makes more sense albeit twisted and wrong.
"Mask wearing in the USA has become a loyalty test for certain groups of people. In most other countries dealing with the COVID-19 crisis, mask wearing is simply a preventative public health measure. In the USA, however President Trump initially downplayed the significance of the pandemic and was criticized for this. As a result he doubled down and signaled to his followers that their group should treat the disease as fake and that people taking the disease seriously would be enemies. As u/Boxboy7 correctly pointed out, Trump has explicitly signaled that people wearing face masks are his enemy.
Humans live in groups and Loyalty Tests are an important part of human social cohesion. A Loyalty Test involves some kind of social signal that tells other people what group you belong to. The bigger and more dangerous the signal is, the more valuable it is to your in-group. For example, Yakuza in Japan will get extravagant full body tattoos and cut off their pinky to demonstrate their loyalty to their group. Both demonstrate that you have put yourself through extreme amounts of pain and have permanently marked yourself as part of the gang. This is such an extreme expression of loyalty that you have basically stated to the group that you are with them forever until you die, because you literally cannot leave the gang and rejoin normal society because you are marked for life. In return the group will protect you.
All human social groups have Loyalty Tests and signals of one sort or another. Sometimes it's an obvious thing like flying a flag, or speaking with a recognizable accent or language. You could also be sharing certain articles or memes on social media. If you're filling up your posts with memes supporting BLM then you are clearly signalling your loyalty to a certain social group. They are often part of rituals, especially if you are seeking admission to a group. Think of hazing at college fraternities and sororities. Extreme hazing means you've earned your spot.
Seen in this way, face masks are sort of the ideal expression of loyalty to certain social groups in today's society. Face masks are a very visible marker, they are literally worn on the face, the seat of our identity. This has historical precedent, see the Anti-Facemask League that was formed as San Francisco dealt with the Spanish Flu in 1918. In general, Loyalty Tests are more powerful when they are socially visible and incur risk. If no one can see your action and if your action was easy and riskless, then it's kind of worthless at demonstrating your loyalty. Refusing to wear a face mask is extremely visible and incurs the risk of getting a debilitating disease and is thus an extremely powerful loyalty test."
https://old.reddit.com/r/TalesFromYourSe...k/fvspfvb/
Thank you for proving my point about stupidity. I have not once thought of a mask as anything other than a simple and cheap solution to stop virus spread while allowing the economy to continue at a higher level of capacity than it can with everyone getting infected. I never once considered "loyalty to a group" in my calculus to wear a mask when around others, since I started in March. Just flat out logic and reasoning. Oh, yes, and a concern for others.
For a society supposedly ruled by the notion of individualism and freedom, there sure are a lot of people in this country who are easily influenced by others and don't think for themselves.
(06-25-2020, 05:53 AM)Publius Wrote: I came across this comment on Reddit that explains why some people refuse to wear masks. It seems so irrational to not wear a mask right now, but when viewed through the lens of a Loyalty Test it makes more sense albeit twisted and wrong.
"Mask wearing in the USA has become a loyalty test for certain groups of people. In most other countries dealing with the COVID-19 crisis, mask wearing is simply a preventative public health measure. In the USA, however President Trump initially downplayed the significance of the pandemic and was criticized for this. As a result he doubled down and signaled to his followers that their group should treat the disease as fake and that people taking the disease seriously would be enemies. As u/Boxboy7 correctly pointed out, Trump has explicitly signaled that people wearing face masks are his enemy.
Humans live in groups and Loyalty Tests are an important part of human social cohesion. A Loyalty Test involves some kind of social signal that tells other people what group you belong to. The bigger and more dangerous the signal is, the more valuable it is to your in-group. For example, Yakuza in Japan will get extravagant full body tattoos and cut off their pinky to demonstrate their loyalty to their group. Both demonstrate that you have put yourself through extreme amounts of pain and have permanently marked yourself as part of the gang. This is such an extreme expression of loyalty that you have basically stated to the group that you are with them forever until you die, because you literally cannot leave the gang and rejoin normal society because you are marked for life. In return the group will protect you.
All human social groups have Loyalty Tests and signals of one sort or another. Sometimes it's an obvious thing like flying a flag, or speaking with a recognizable accent or language. You could also be sharing certain articles or memes on social media. If you're filling up your posts with memes supporting BLM then you are clearly signalling your loyalty to a certain social group. They are often part of rituals, especially if you are seeking admission to a group. Think of hazing at college fraternities and sororities. Extreme hazing means you've earned your spot.
Seen in this way, face masks are sort of the ideal expression of loyalty to certain social groups in today's society. Face masks are a very visible marker, they are literally worn on the face, the seat of our identity. This has historical precedent, see the Anti-Facemask League that was formed as San Francisco dealt with the Spanish Flu in 1918. In general, Loyalty Tests are more powerful when they are socially visible and incur risk. If no one can see your action and if your action was easy and riskless, then it's kind of worthless at demonstrating your loyalty. Refusing to wear a face mask is extremely visible and incurs the risk of getting a debilitating disease and is thus an extremely powerful loyalty test."
https://old.reddit.com/r/TalesFromYourSe...k/fvspfvb/
Thank you for proving my point about stupidity. I have not once thought of a mask as anything other than a simple and cheap solution to stop virus spread while allowing the economy to continue at a higher level of capacity than it can with everyone getting infected. I never once considered "loyalty to a group" in my calculus to wear a mask when around others, since I started in March. Just flat out logic and reasoning. Oh, yes, and a concern for others.
For a society supposedly ruled by the notion of individualism and freedom, there sure are a lot of people in this country who are easily influenced by others and don't think for themselves.
06-25-2020, 06:59 AM
(06-24-2020, 10:25 PM)akiddoc Wrote:Orange County reported on Wednesday that 24 people died on Tuesday. I believe that was an all time high for the county, but if not it was close to the worst day.(06-24-2020, 10:02 PM)Mick Wrote: Virtually all masks I see in public are not N95. I wonder how efficient the cloth/paper/decorative masks are that I see all the time in public?
I imagine they help if the person wearing them coughs or sneezes into the mask. Other than that, are they much good?
They prevent widespread droplet and aerosol spread. It's been discussed ad nauseam here.
Orange County has decided not to comply. I don't know what is wrong with these people.
https://voiceofoc.org/2020/06/ocs-lack-o...out-money/
The top OC health official quit a few weeks ago because of threats, presumably from folks that just don't want to wear a mask.
I heard a great line yesterday on TV... it went something like.
"If you don't like wearing a mask, you won't like a ventilator."
In the OC right now a lot of people are discovering the discomforts associated with ventilators. It is so bad in SoCal that Disneyland cancelled its opening. Those that want to resist sensible easy steps with proven efficacy are not just harming themselves they are derailing our economy.
I am now waiting for those WWII style animations from the Disney company that explain why mask wearing is effective AND patriotic. It apparently is just not enough for the CDC, WHO and every doctor interviewed on TV to explain why and how masks work and why the USA needs to wear masks to reduce deaths. Historically the next step is to get some cartoon characters up on screen to help get the kids to shame their parents into compliance.
(06-24-2020, 10:25 PM)akiddoc Wrote:Orange County reported on Wednesday that 24 people died on Tuesday. I believe that was an all time high for the county, but if not it was close to the worst day.(06-24-2020, 10:02 PM)Mick Wrote: Virtually all masks I see in public are not N95. I wonder how efficient the cloth/paper/decorative masks are that I see all the time in public?
I imagine they help if the person wearing them coughs or sneezes into the mask. Other than that, are they much good?
They prevent widespread droplet and aerosol spread. It's been discussed ad nauseam here.
Orange County has decided not to comply. I don't know what is wrong with these people.
https://voiceofoc.org/2020/06/ocs-lack-o...out-money/
The top OC health official quit a few weeks ago because of threats, presumably from folks that just don't want to wear a mask.
I heard a great line yesterday on TV... it went something like.
"If you don't like wearing a mask, you won't like a ventilator."
In the OC right now a lot of people are discovering the discomforts associated with ventilators. It is so bad in SoCal that Disneyland cancelled its opening. Those that want to resist sensible easy steps with proven efficacy are not just harming themselves they are derailing our economy.
I am now waiting for those WWII style animations from the Disney company that explain why mask wearing is effective AND patriotic. It apparently is just not enough for the CDC, WHO and every doctor interviewed on TV to explain why and how masks work and why the USA needs to wear masks to reduce deaths. Historically the next step is to get some cartoon characters up on screen to help get the kids to shame their parents into compliance.
06-25-2020, 09:17 AM
(06-25-2020, 06:59 AM)Farm93 Wrote: Historically the next step is to get some cartoon characters up on screen to help get the kids to shame their parents into compliance.I expect those with children are more aware of how risks to them translate into risks to others. I would suspect those without children (including teenagers, who often resist authority) are more likely to eschew masks.
While I honestly don't wish COVID-19 on anyone, if one of the major political figures got sick, was put on a respirator, and died, I wonder if that would be the kick in the pants that many people need. Maybe it really would take a sports figure or some other celebrity (outside of the political realm) to go through that.
(06-25-2020, 06:59 AM)Farm93 Wrote: Historically the next step is to get some cartoon characters up on screen to help get the kids to shame their parents into compliance.I expect those with children are more aware of how risks to them translate into risks to others. I would suspect those without children (including teenagers, who often resist authority) are more likely to eschew masks.
While I honestly don't wish COVID-19 on anyone, if one of the major political figures got sick, was put on a respirator, and died, I wonder if that would be the kick in the pants that many people need. Maybe it really would take a sports figure or some other celebrity (outside of the political realm) to go through that.
06-25-2020, 09:43 AM
Is there a composite of who isn’t wearing masks in OC? I think the assumption is it’s political. M6 guess is it’s more the young beach crowd
(06-25-2020, 09:17 AM)M T Wrote:That more or less kicked off the USA awareness when the NBA had their outbreak.(06-25-2020, 06:59 AM)Farm93 Wrote: Historically the next step is to get some cartoon characters up on screen to help get the kids to shame their parents into compliance.I expect those with children are more aware of how risks to them translate into risks to others. I would suspect those without children (including teenagers, who often resist authority) are more likely to eschew masks.
While I honestly don't wish COVID-19 on anyone, if one of the major political figures got sick, was put on a respirator, and died, I wonder if that would be the kick in the pants that many people need. Maybe it really would take a sports figure or some other celebrity (outside of the political realm) to go through that.
With more than 120,000 deaths now I am just not sure there are many individuals that could alter the views of those that aren't willing to take very simple preventative measures.
That's why my preference is for animation since death of a character in animation is not quite final.
Elsa might do the trick.
Put it on, put it on!!!
Can't deny this one anymore.
Put it on, put it on!!!
Wear a mask, or death rates will soar.
FWIW - I don't have daughters, but my neighbor does. Poor guy has to watch Frozen several times a week. He has resorted to sitting in his garage looking out to the street recently to try to get away from Elsa songs which we can all hear in the neighborhood when the windows in his house are open.
(06-25-2020, 09:17 AM)M T Wrote:That more or less kicked off the USA awareness when the NBA had their outbreak.(06-25-2020, 06:59 AM)Farm93 Wrote: Historically the next step is to get some cartoon characters up on screen to help get the kids to shame their parents into compliance.I expect those with children are more aware of how risks to them translate into risks to others. I would suspect those without children (including teenagers, who often resist authority) are more likely to eschew masks.
While I honestly don't wish COVID-19 on anyone, if one of the major political figures got sick, was put on a respirator, and died, I wonder if that would be the kick in the pants that many people need. Maybe it really would take a sports figure or some other celebrity (outside of the political realm) to go through that.
With more than 120,000 deaths now I am just not sure there are many individuals that could alter the views of those that aren't willing to take very simple preventative measures.
That's why my preference is for animation since death of a character in animation is not quite final.
Elsa might do the trick.
Put it on, put it on!!!
Can't deny this one anymore.
Put it on, put it on!!!
Wear a mask, or death rates will soar.
FWIW - I don't have daughters, but my neighbor does. Poor guy has to watch Frozen several times a week. He has resorted to sitting in his garage looking out to the street recently to try to get away from Elsa songs which we can all hear in the neighborhood when the windows in his house are open.
(06-25-2020, 09:46 AM)Farm93 Wrote:
(06-25-2020, 09:17 AM)M T Wrote:
While I honestly don't wish COVID-19 on anyone, if one of the major political figures got sick, was put on a respirator, and died, I wonder if that would be the kick in the pants that many people need. Maybe it really would take a sports figure or some other celebrity (outside of the political realm) to go through that.That more or less kicked off the USA awareness when the NBA had their outbreak.NBA and America's dad, Tom Hanks.
That said, has a single impactful figure (ingrained in society's conscious) been hospitalized by Covid-19? I think we hear too many stories of "I got it. It's serious, everyone", but it's just talk and they recover in a couple weeks with seemingly no adverse affects. Probably reinforces the conception that it's no big deal, just another flu.
(06-25-2020, 09:46 AM)Farm93 Wrote:
(06-25-2020, 09:17 AM)M T Wrote:
While I honestly don't wish COVID-19 on anyone, if one of the major political figures got sick, was put on a respirator, and died, I wonder if that would be the kick in the pants that many people need. Maybe it really would take a sports figure or some other celebrity (outside of the political realm) to go through that.That more or less kicked off the USA awareness when the NBA had their outbreak.NBA and America's dad, Tom Hanks.
That said, has a single impactful figure (ingrained in society's conscious) been hospitalized by Covid-19? I think we hear too many stories of "I got it. It's serious, everyone", but it's just talk and they recover in a couple weeks with seemingly no adverse affects. Probably reinforces the conception that it's no big deal, just another flu.
06-25-2020, 10:02 AM
It also didn’t help that the messaging was inconsistent. At first - not necessary. In fact, if I remember correctl6 the original WHO message was that masks don’t help. Then morphed into saying well, they might, so maybe you should. Now it’s the No 1 item.
You got people who already have a tendency to be skeptical and give that sort of messaging and it doesn’t help. Obviously the message from the administration on this doesn’t help either I’m not suggesting otherwise. But I have to believe that if from day one people were told to wear masks they would’ve been much less pushback and much higher compliance.
You got people who already have a tendency to be skeptical and give that sort of messaging and it doesn’t help. Obviously the message from the administration on this doesn’t help either I’m not suggesting otherwise. But I have to believe that if from day one people were told to wear masks they would’ve been much less pushback and much higher compliance.
It also didn’t help that the messaging was inconsistent. At first - not necessary. In fact, if I remember correctl6 the original WHO message was that masks don’t help. Then morphed into saying well, they might, so maybe you should. Now it’s the No 1 item.
You got people who already have a tendency to be skeptical and give that sort of messaging and it doesn’t help. Obviously the message from the administration on this doesn’t help either I’m not suggesting otherwise. But I have to believe that if from day one people were told to wear masks they would’ve been much less pushback and much higher compliance.
You got people who already have a tendency to be skeptical and give that sort of messaging and it doesn’t help. Obviously the message from the administration on this doesn’t help either I’m not suggesting otherwise. But I have to believe that if from day one people were told to wear masks they would’ve been much less pushback and much higher compliance.
06-25-2020, 10:09 AM
The message from very early should have been that masks help to prevent transmission and everyone should wear cloth masks because we don't have enough surgical masks for healthcare workers.
I think there was misplaced concern that the public buying masks would impact availability to HCWs. Availability still isn't good because of limited supply, but I think its clear now that the public is fine with cloth masks, if they're fine with masks at all.
I think there was misplaced concern that the public buying masks would impact availability to HCWs. Availability still isn't good because of limited supply, but I think its clear now that the public is fine with cloth masks, if they're fine with masks at all.
The message from very early should have been that masks help to prevent transmission and everyone should wear cloth masks because we don't have enough surgical masks for healthcare workers.
I think there was misplaced concern that the public buying masks would impact availability to HCWs. Availability still isn't good because of limited supply, but I think its clear now that the public is fine with cloth masks, if they're fine with masks at all.
I think there was misplaced concern that the public buying masks would impact availability to HCWs. Availability still isn't good because of limited supply, but I think its clear now that the public is fine with cloth masks, if they're fine with masks at all.
06-25-2020, 10:24 AM
(06-25-2020, 09:58 AM)magnus Wrote: NBA and America's dad, Tom Hanks.
That said, has a single impactful figure (ingrained in society's conscious) been hospitalized by Covid-19? I think we hear too many stories of "I got it. It's serious, everyone", but it's just talk and they recover in a couple weeks with seemingly no adverse affects. Probably reinforces the conception that it's no big deal, just another flu.
By the time we knew about Tom Hanks the USA sports world has halted everything. Plus Tom was not in the USA when he got sick, so it was possible for people to conclude he got sick because he was not in the USA.
I agree that every reasonably famous person that has tested positive eventually emerged without requiring hospitalization. There have been some celebrity deaths. Most were older and had stopped actively working in the industry long ago. I am not sure a single major hospitalization or death would do it as that person would likely have other issues that deniers could use to keep denying.
The number of Americans that would motivate action, especially for current deniers, is so limited. Maybe a few NASCAR drivers, a few golfers, a handful of actors and singers, and then a very small number of politicians. Wishing ill health for anyone for the benefit of the country is a tough place to be though.
Sadly the death of multiple celebrities feels more probable than getting POTUS45 to embrace the mask wearing recommendations of the CDC, WHO and major USA medical associations.
(06-25-2020, 09:58 AM)magnus Wrote: NBA and America's dad, Tom Hanks.
That said, has a single impactful figure (ingrained in society's conscious) been hospitalized by Covid-19? I think we hear too many stories of "I got it. It's serious, everyone", but it's just talk and they recover in a couple weeks with seemingly no adverse affects. Probably reinforces the conception that it's no big deal, just another flu.
By the time we knew about Tom Hanks the USA sports world has halted everything. Plus Tom was not in the USA when he got sick, so it was possible for people to conclude he got sick because he was not in the USA.
I agree that every reasonably famous person that has tested positive eventually emerged without requiring hospitalization. There have been some celebrity deaths. Most were older and had stopped actively working in the industry long ago. I am not sure a single major hospitalization or death would do it as that person would likely have other issues that deniers could use to keep denying.
The number of Americans that would motivate action, especially for current deniers, is so limited. Maybe a few NASCAR drivers, a few golfers, a handful of actors and singers, and then a very small number of politicians. Wishing ill health for anyone for the benefit of the country is a tough place to be though.
Sadly the death of multiple celebrities feels more probable than getting POTUS45 to embrace the mask wearing recommendations of the CDC, WHO and major USA medical associations.
06-25-2020, 10:33 AM
(06-25-2020, 10:09 AM)dabigv13 Wrote: The message from very early should have been that masks help to prevent transmission and everyone should wear cloth masks because we don't have enough surgical masks for healthcare workers.
I think there was misplaced concern that the public buying masks would impact availability to HCWs. Availability still isn't good because of limited supply, but I think its clear now that the public is fine with cloth masks, if they're fine with masks at all.
The other concern was that people would use masks as an alternative for sheltering in place or that people would let their guard down out of a false sense of security with masks. But I agree with Lex that mixed messages were a problem, and I'm as guilty as anyone; I started out fairly skeptical about mask use but have come around as data has accumulated that they make a difference.
BC
(06-25-2020, 10:09 AM)dabigv13 Wrote: The message from very early should have been that masks help to prevent transmission and everyone should wear cloth masks because we don't have enough surgical masks for healthcare workers.
I think there was misplaced concern that the public buying masks would impact availability to HCWs. Availability still isn't good because of limited supply, but I think its clear now that the public is fine with cloth masks, if they're fine with masks at all.
The other concern was that people would use masks as an alternative for sheltering in place or that people would let their guard down out of a false sense of security with masks. But I agree with Lex that mixed messages were a problem, and I'm as guilty as anyone; I started out fairly skeptical about mask use but have come around as data has accumulated that they make a difference.
BC
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