03-11-2022, 06:50 PM
if we're going to stop the run, it wouldn't hurt to have at least one nose tackle on the field.
someone like Grant Buckey.
someone like Grant Buckey.
Cal delenda est
Football Recruiting Class of 2023
Cal delenda est
03-12-2022, 03:12 PM
Another commit from the recent Junior Day. WR from Florida.
[twitter]https://twitter.com/AhmariBorden/status/1502765455391535107[/twitter]
[twitter]https://twitter.com/AhmariBorden/status/1502765455391535107[/twitter]
"We have an unwritten rule around here not to do anything stupid."
-Casey Jacobsen, Feb 3, 2000
Another commit from the recent Junior Day. WR from Florida.
[twitter]https://twitter.com/AhmariBorden/status/1502765455391535107[/twitter]
[twitter]https://twitter.com/AhmariBorden/status/1502765455391535107[/twitter]
"We have an unwritten rule around here not to do anything stupid."
-Casey Jacobsen, Feb 3, 2000
03-12-2022, 03:56 PM
Good inasmuch as WR is a bit of a position if need.
But we have many positions of need.
BC
But we have many positions of need.
BC
Good inasmuch as WR is a bit of a position if need.
But we have many positions of need.
BC
But we have many positions of need.
BC
03-12-2022, 04:38 PM
I was hoping for Borden. He and Bachmeier are a really good WR duo.
When I registered here in 2014, TrumpCard seemed like an apolitical user ID...
03-12-2022, 05:48 PM
Three dimensional analysis on Borden:
Services: 247 composite #315 (#42 WR), On3 composite #314 (#47 WR), Rivals 5.8 (#50 WR, same grade as Michael Wilson, Simi Fehoko, Francis Owusu, Kodi Whitfield, Ty Montgomery, Jamal-Rashad Patterson, Chris Owusu), On3 #287 (#45 WR), 247 #59 WR, ESPN #249 (#39 WR)
Offers: Stanford, Auburn, Florida Atlantic, Florida State, Georgia, Georgia Tech, Louisville, Michigan State, Ole Miss, Oregon, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas A&M, USF, Wake Forest, West Virginia, Coastal Carolina, Charlotte, Troy
Production: As a junior, Borden played for Munroe in Florida against absolutely atrocious competition (bottom five percent of competition among all historical Shaw recruits) and had 35 catches for 666 yards (first on the team), a 19.0 yard per catch average (also first), with 4 touchdowns (second). That accounted for 32.5 percent of the passing attack, which would put him eighth among the last 12 Stanford WR recruits I've tracked (admittedly a very strong group). On defense as a junior he had 4.5 tackles per game (sixth on the team), 4 passes defended (third), 1 interception, 1 blocked field goal, and 1 forced fumble. As a return specialist he averaged 24.1 yards per kick return on nine returns and 15.8 yards per punt return on six punt returns. As a sophomore, he played in Georgia for Bainbridge and against subpar competition he had 16 catches for 304 yards (second on the team), a 19.0 yard per catch average (first), and 3 touchdowns (third). That accounted for 24.3 percent of the team's passing attack. As a junior in basketball for Munroe, he averaged 7.3 points per game (fourth on the team) on 50 percent shooting (third), with 6.3 rebounds per game (first), 0.9 assists per game (tied for fifth), 1.5 steals per game (fourth). As a sophomore in basketball for Bainbridge, Borden averaged 6.1 points per game (sixth) on 49 percent shooting (third), with 4.1 rebounds per game (tied for second), 0.7 assists per game (tied for ninth), and 2.0 steals per game (fourth). At a 7-on-7 showcase last month he was verified as clocking 21.88 miles per hour top speed. In the absence of a 100 meter time my guess would be that this would convert to an 11.2 or better 100.
Another nice wide receiver get, on paper the top WR recruit we've gotten in the last three cycles (though I prefer Reuben. WR recruiting has become very reliable for us. Borden has size and at least competitive athleticism and it's easy to see him filling at least the end zone specialist role, with an aspirational upside for Arcega-Whiteside/Montgomery kind of things. I'm not sure I'm quite as bullish on him as the services as you'd really like to see more dominance against such poor competition (Jay Tyler and Marcus Graham are the only Shaw receivers ever to play competition this bad). Looking holistically at his offensive production, defensive production, basketball production, etc. and it's hard to see a superlative athlete here. But it is a fairly big guy (forward on his basketball team who has gone up for a fair number of fades on the gridiron) who is a legitimate 4-star. Will never complain about that. I still have concerns that the 2021-2023 WR recruiting is a comedown from the 2017-2020 standard but that was probably inevitable and hopefully we're not done with WR recruiting for 2023 and can get a headliner to supplement the good but not great duo we've now gotten to commit. In the big picture for the 2023 class, we have a serious need to pull in a good class on offense and now have gotten out of the gates with three promising pass catchers. We still need difference makers but it's a nice start.
Services: 247 composite #315 (#42 WR), On3 composite #314 (#47 WR), Rivals 5.8 (#50 WR, same grade as Michael Wilson, Simi Fehoko, Francis Owusu, Kodi Whitfield, Ty Montgomery, Jamal-Rashad Patterson, Chris Owusu), On3 #287 (#45 WR), 247 #59 WR, ESPN #249 (#39 WR)
Offers: Stanford, Auburn, Florida Atlantic, Florida State, Georgia, Georgia Tech, Louisville, Michigan State, Ole Miss, Oregon, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas A&M, USF, Wake Forest, West Virginia, Coastal Carolina, Charlotte, Troy
Production: As a junior, Borden played for Munroe in Florida against absolutely atrocious competition (bottom five percent of competition among all historical Shaw recruits) and had 35 catches for 666 yards (first on the team), a 19.0 yard per catch average (also first), with 4 touchdowns (second). That accounted for 32.5 percent of the passing attack, which would put him eighth among the last 12 Stanford WR recruits I've tracked (admittedly a very strong group). On defense as a junior he had 4.5 tackles per game (sixth on the team), 4 passes defended (third), 1 interception, 1 blocked field goal, and 1 forced fumble. As a return specialist he averaged 24.1 yards per kick return on nine returns and 15.8 yards per punt return on six punt returns. As a sophomore, he played in Georgia for Bainbridge and against subpar competition he had 16 catches for 304 yards (second on the team), a 19.0 yard per catch average (first), and 3 touchdowns (third). That accounted for 24.3 percent of the team's passing attack. As a junior in basketball for Munroe, he averaged 7.3 points per game (fourth on the team) on 50 percent shooting (third), with 6.3 rebounds per game (first), 0.9 assists per game (tied for fifth), 1.5 steals per game (fourth). As a sophomore in basketball for Bainbridge, Borden averaged 6.1 points per game (sixth) on 49 percent shooting (third), with 4.1 rebounds per game (tied for second), 0.7 assists per game (tied for ninth), and 2.0 steals per game (fourth). At a 7-on-7 showcase last month he was verified as clocking 21.88 miles per hour top speed. In the absence of a 100 meter time my guess would be that this would convert to an 11.2 or better 100.
Another nice wide receiver get, on paper the top WR recruit we've gotten in the last three cycles (though I prefer Reuben. WR recruiting has become very reliable for us. Borden has size and at least competitive athleticism and it's easy to see him filling at least the end zone specialist role, with an aspirational upside for Arcega-Whiteside/Montgomery kind of things. I'm not sure I'm quite as bullish on him as the services as you'd really like to see more dominance against such poor competition (Jay Tyler and Marcus Graham are the only Shaw receivers ever to play competition this bad). Looking holistically at his offensive production, defensive production, basketball production, etc. and it's hard to see a superlative athlete here. But it is a fairly big guy (forward on his basketball team who has gone up for a fair number of fades on the gridiron) who is a legitimate 4-star. Will never complain about that. I still have concerns that the 2021-2023 WR recruiting is a comedown from the 2017-2020 standard but that was probably inevitable and hopefully we're not done with WR recruiting for 2023 and can get a headliner to supplement the good but not great duo we've now gotten to commit. In the big picture for the 2023 class, we have a serious need to pull in a good class on offense and now have gotten out of the gates with three promising pass catchers. We still need difference makers but it's a nice start.
Three dimensional analysis on Borden:
Services: 247 composite #315 (#42 WR), On3 composite #314 (#47 WR), Rivals 5.8 (#50 WR, same grade as Michael Wilson, Simi Fehoko, Francis Owusu, Kodi Whitfield, Ty Montgomery, Jamal-Rashad Patterson, Chris Owusu), On3 #287 (#45 WR), 247 #59 WR, ESPN #249 (#39 WR)
Offers: Stanford, Auburn, Florida Atlantic, Florida State, Georgia, Georgia Tech, Louisville, Michigan State, Ole Miss, Oregon, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas A&M, USF, Wake Forest, West Virginia, Coastal Carolina, Charlotte, Troy
Production: As a junior, Borden played for Munroe in Florida against absolutely atrocious competition (bottom five percent of competition among all historical Shaw recruits) and had 35 catches for 666 yards (first on the team), a 19.0 yard per catch average (also first), with 4 touchdowns (second). That accounted for 32.5 percent of the passing attack, which would put him eighth among the last 12 Stanford WR recruits I've tracked (admittedly a very strong group). On defense as a junior he had 4.5 tackles per game (sixth on the team), 4 passes defended (third), 1 interception, 1 blocked field goal, and 1 forced fumble. As a return specialist he averaged 24.1 yards per kick return on nine returns and 15.8 yards per punt return on six punt returns. As a sophomore, he played in Georgia for Bainbridge and against subpar competition he had 16 catches for 304 yards (second on the team), a 19.0 yard per catch average (first), and 3 touchdowns (third). That accounted for 24.3 percent of the team's passing attack. As a junior in basketball for Munroe, he averaged 7.3 points per game (fourth on the team) on 50 percent shooting (third), with 6.3 rebounds per game (first), 0.9 assists per game (tied for fifth), 1.5 steals per game (fourth). As a sophomore in basketball for Bainbridge, Borden averaged 6.1 points per game (sixth) on 49 percent shooting (third), with 4.1 rebounds per game (tied for second), 0.7 assists per game (tied for ninth), and 2.0 steals per game (fourth). At a 7-on-7 showcase last month he was verified as clocking 21.88 miles per hour top speed. In the absence of a 100 meter time my guess would be that this would convert to an 11.2 or better 100.
Another nice wide receiver get, on paper the top WR recruit we've gotten in the last three cycles (though I prefer Reuben. WR recruiting has become very reliable for us. Borden has size and at least competitive athleticism and it's easy to see him filling at least the end zone specialist role, with an aspirational upside for Arcega-Whiteside/Montgomery kind of things. I'm not sure I'm quite as bullish on him as the services as you'd really like to see more dominance against such poor competition (Jay Tyler and Marcus Graham are the only Shaw receivers ever to play competition this bad). Looking holistically at his offensive production, defensive production, basketball production, etc. and it's hard to see a superlative athlete here. But it is a fairly big guy (forward on his basketball team who has gone up for a fair number of fades on the gridiron) who is a legitimate 4-star. Will never complain about that. I still have concerns that the 2021-2023 WR recruiting is a comedown from the 2017-2020 standard but that was probably inevitable and hopefully we're not done with WR recruiting for 2023 and can get a headliner to supplement the good but not great duo we've now gotten to commit. In the big picture for the 2023 class, we have a serious need to pull in a good class on offense and now have gotten out of the gates with three promising pass catchers. We still need difference makers but it's a nice start.
Services: 247 composite #315 (#42 WR), On3 composite #314 (#47 WR), Rivals 5.8 (#50 WR, same grade as Michael Wilson, Simi Fehoko, Francis Owusu, Kodi Whitfield, Ty Montgomery, Jamal-Rashad Patterson, Chris Owusu), On3 #287 (#45 WR), 247 #59 WR, ESPN #249 (#39 WR)
Offers: Stanford, Auburn, Florida Atlantic, Florida State, Georgia, Georgia Tech, Louisville, Michigan State, Ole Miss, Oregon, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas A&M, USF, Wake Forest, West Virginia, Coastal Carolina, Charlotte, Troy
Production: As a junior, Borden played for Munroe in Florida against absolutely atrocious competition (bottom five percent of competition among all historical Shaw recruits) and had 35 catches for 666 yards (first on the team), a 19.0 yard per catch average (also first), with 4 touchdowns (second). That accounted for 32.5 percent of the passing attack, which would put him eighth among the last 12 Stanford WR recruits I've tracked (admittedly a very strong group). On defense as a junior he had 4.5 tackles per game (sixth on the team), 4 passes defended (third), 1 interception, 1 blocked field goal, and 1 forced fumble. As a return specialist he averaged 24.1 yards per kick return on nine returns and 15.8 yards per punt return on six punt returns. As a sophomore, he played in Georgia for Bainbridge and against subpar competition he had 16 catches for 304 yards (second on the team), a 19.0 yard per catch average (first), and 3 touchdowns (third). That accounted for 24.3 percent of the team's passing attack. As a junior in basketball for Munroe, he averaged 7.3 points per game (fourth on the team) on 50 percent shooting (third), with 6.3 rebounds per game (first), 0.9 assists per game (tied for fifth), 1.5 steals per game (fourth). As a sophomore in basketball for Bainbridge, Borden averaged 6.1 points per game (sixth) on 49 percent shooting (third), with 4.1 rebounds per game (tied for second), 0.7 assists per game (tied for ninth), and 2.0 steals per game (fourth). At a 7-on-7 showcase last month he was verified as clocking 21.88 miles per hour top speed. In the absence of a 100 meter time my guess would be that this would convert to an 11.2 or better 100.
Another nice wide receiver get, on paper the top WR recruit we've gotten in the last three cycles (though I prefer Reuben. WR recruiting has become very reliable for us. Borden has size and at least competitive athleticism and it's easy to see him filling at least the end zone specialist role, with an aspirational upside for Arcega-Whiteside/Montgomery kind of things. I'm not sure I'm quite as bullish on him as the services as you'd really like to see more dominance against such poor competition (Jay Tyler and Marcus Graham are the only Shaw receivers ever to play competition this bad). Looking holistically at his offensive production, defensive production, basketball production, etc. and it's hard to see a superlative athlete here. But it is a fairly big guy (forward on his basketball team who has gone up for a fair number of fades on the gridiron) who is a legitimate 4-star. Will never complain about that. I still have concerns that the 2021-2023 WR recruiting is a comedown from the 2017-2020 standard but that was probably inevitable and hopefully we're not done with WR recruiting for 2023 and can get a headliner to supplement the good but not great duo we've now gotten to commit. In the big picture for the 2023 class, we have a serious need to pull in a good class on offense and now have gotten out of the gates with three promising pass catchers. We still need difference makers but it's a nice start.
03-12-2022, 06:42 PM
They need a WR who can get open and doesn't have to make circus catches to help out his QB. Wilson can't stay healthy and Tremayne is a big if. It's been a long while since Trent Irwin.
03-12-2022, 10:31 PM
(03-12-2022, 06:42 PM)Phogge Wrote: They need a WR who can get open and doesn't have to make circus catches to help out his QB. Wilson can't stay healthy and Tremayne is a big if. It's been a long while since Trent Irwin.Trent Irwin isn't what we need IMHO. We have guys who are "possession" receivers, in fact that is all we have. We desperately need a Simi Fehoko/ Michael Rector type who is fast and can stretch the defense. Otherwise, we are playing against a defense that doesn't have to defend the whole field. No deep threat allows everybody to play near the LOS. This makes it difficult to run and clogs up our possession receivers getting open.
(03-12-2022, 06:42 PM)Phogge Wrote: They need a WR who can get open and doesn't have to make circus catches to help out his QB. Wilson can't stay healthy and Tremayne is a big if. It's been a long while since Trent Irwin.Trent Irwin isn't what we need IMHO. We have guys who are "possession" receivers, in fact that is all we have. We desperately need a Simi Fehoko/ Michael Rector type who is fast and can stretch the defense. Otherwise, we are playing against a defense that doesn't have to defend the whole field. No deep threat allows everybody to play near the LOS. This makes it difficult to run and clogs up our possession receivers getting open.
03-12-2022, 11:06 PM
(This post was last modified: 03-12-2022, 11:16 PM by Maple Leaf.)
Gene Washington
James Lofton
Damon Dunn
Brian Manning
John Winesberry (rip)
Miles Moore
There is a track record of Stanford wr who can stretch the field. I remember when Gene Washington ran past three USC dbs to catch a deep ball from Plunkett.
Bob Nichols
Mike Hibler
Blaine Nye
Pete Swanson
Jason Fisk
Andrew Curry
Pat Donavon
Willie Howard
Roger Stillwell
James Lofton
Damon Dunn
Brian Manning
John Winesberry (rip)
Miles Moore
There is a track record of Stanford wr who can stretch the field. I remember when Gene Washington ran past three USC dbs to catch a deep ball from Plunkett.
(03-11-2022, 03:50 PM)Phogge Wrote: Yeah if only DT's still existed in the Stanford universe. Not sure what we should call them now BC. But I remember a few.
Paul Wiggen
Greg Sampson
Laz
Jody Graves
Larry Butler
Jack Moller
Could use guys like that.
Bob Nichols
Mike Hibler
Blaine Nye
Pete Swanson
Jason Fisk
Andrew Curry
Pat Donavon
Willie Howard
Roger Stillwell
(This post was last modified: 03-12-2022, 11:16 PM by Maple Leaf.)
Gene Washington
James Lofton
Damon Dunn
Brian Manning
John Winesberry (rip)
Miles Moore
There is a track record of Stanford wr who can stretch the field. I remember when Gene Washington ran past three USC dbs to catch a deep ball from Plunkett.
Bob Nichols
Mike Hibler
Blaine Nye
Pete Swanson
Jason Fisk
Andrew Curry
Pat Donavon
Willie Howard
Roger Stillwell
James Lofton
Damon Dunn
Brian Manning
John Winesberry (rip)
Miles Moore
There is a track record of Stanford wr who can stretch the field. I remember when Gene Washington ran past three USC dbs to catch a deep ball from Plunkett.
(03-11-2022, 03:50 PM)Phogge Wrote: Yeah if only DT's still existed in the Stanford universe. Not sure what we should call them now BC. But I remember a few.
Paul Wiggen
Greg Sampson
Laz
Jody Graves
Larry Butler
Jack Moller
Could use guys like that.
Bob Nichols
Mike Hibler
Blaine Nye
Pete Swanson
Jason Fisk
Andrew Curry
Pat Donavon
Willie Howard
Roger Stillwell
03-13-2022, 04:37 AM
Stilwell and Donavon were defensive ends.
Goose... the recent “possession” WR’s have had trouble getting open. No great route runners.
Goose... the recent “possession” WR’s have had trouble getting open. No great route runners.
03-13-2022, 05:36 AM
(03-12-2022, 05:48 PM)msqueri Wrote: Three dimensional analysis on Borden:
Services: 247 composite #315 (#42 WR), On3 composite #314 (#47 WR), Rivals 5.8 (#50 WR, same grade as Michael Wilson, Simi Fehoko, Francis Owusu, Kodi Whitfield, Ty Montgomery, Jamal-Rashad Patterson, Chris Owusu), On3 #287 (#45 WR), 247 #59 WR, ESPN #249 (#39 WR)
Offers: Stanford, Auburn, Florida Atlantic, Florida State, Georgia, Georgia Tech, Louisville, Michigan State, Ole Miss, Oregon, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas A&M, USF, Wake Forest, West Virginia, Coastal Carolina, Charlotte, Troy
Production: As a junior, Borden played for Munroe in Florida against absolutely atrocious competition (bottom five percent of competition among all historical Shaw recruits) and had 35 catches for 666 yards (first on the team), a 19.0 yard per catch average (also first), with 4 touchdowns (second). That accounted for 32.5 percent of the passing attack, which would put him eighth among the last 12 Stanford WR recruits I've tracked (admittedly a very strong group). On defense as a junior he had 4.5 tackles per game (sixth on the team), 4 passes defended (third), 1 interception, 1 blocked field goal, and 1 forced fumble. As a return specialist he averaged 24.1 yards per kick return on nine returns and 15.8 yards per punt return on six punt returns. As a sophomore, he played in Georgia for Bainbridge and against subpar competition he had 16 catches for 304 yards (second on the team), a 19.0 yard per catch average (first), and 3 touchdowns (third). That accounted for 24.3 percent of the team's passing attack. As a junior in basketball for Munroe, he averaged 7.3 points per game (fourth on the team) on 50 percent shooting (third), with 6.3 rebounds per game (first), 0.9 assists per game (tied for fifth), 1.5 steals per game (fourth). As a sophomore in basketball for Bainbridge, Borden averaged 6.1 points per game (sixth) on 49 percent shooting (third), with 4.1 rebounds per game (tied for second), 0.7 assists per game (tied for ninth), and 2.0 steals per game (fourth). At a 7-on-7 showcase last month he was verified as clocking 21.88 miles per hour top speed. In the absence of a 100 meter time my guess would be that this would convert to an 11.2 or better 100.
Another nice wide receiver get, on paper the top WR recruit we've gotten in the last three cycles (though I prefer Reuben. WR recruiting has become very reliable for us. Borden has size and at least competitive athleticism and it's easy to see him filling at least the end zone specialist role, with an aspirational upside for Arcega-Whiteside/Montgomery kind of things. I'm not sure I'm quite as bullish on him as the services as you'd really like to see more dominance against such poor competition (Jay Tyler and Marcus Graham are the only Shaw receivers ever to play competition this bad). Looking holistically at his offensive production, defensive production, basketball production, etc. and it's hard to see a superlative athlete here. But it is a fairly big guy (forward on his basketball team who has gone up for a fair number of fades on the gridiron) who is a legitimate 4-star. Will never complain about that. I still have concerns that the 2021-2023 WR recruiting is a comedown from the 2017-2020 standard but that was probably inevitable and hopefully we're not done with WR recruiting for 2023 and can get a headliner to supplement the good but not great duo we've now gotten to commit. In the big picture for the 2023 class, we have a serious need to pull in a good class on offense and now have gotten out of the gates with three promising pass catchers. We still need difference makers but it's a nice start.
My son's HS team played against Munroe. They were a bit of a joke. IIRC they had barely enough players to field a team. The score was something like 56-0.
That was 20 years ago, though. Hopefully they have improved since then.
(03-12-2022, 05:48 PM)msqueri Wrote: Three dimensional analysis on Borden:
Services: 247 composite #315 (#42 WR), On3 composite #314 (#47 WR), Rivals 5.8 (#50 WR, same grade as Michael Wilson, Simi Fehoko, Francis Owusu, Kodi Whitfield, Ty Montgomery, Jamal-Rashad Patterson, Chris Owusu), On3 #287 (#45 WR), 247 #59 WR, ESPN #249 (#39 WR)
Offers: Stanford, Auburn, Florida Atlantic, Florida State, Georgia, Georgia Tech, Louisville, Michigan State, Ole Miss, Oregon, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas A&M, USF, Wake Forest, West Virginia, Coastal Carolina, Charlotte, Troy
Production: As a junior, Borden played for Munroe in Florida against absolutely atrocious competition (bottom five percent of competition among all historical Shaw recruits) and had 35 catches for 666 yards (first on the team), a 19.0 yard per catch average (also first), with 4 touchdowns (second). That accounted for 32.5 percent of the passing attack, which would put him eighth among the last 12 Stanford WR recruits I've tracked (admittedly a very strong group). On defense as a junior he had 4.5 tackles per game (sixth on the team), 4 passes defended (third), 1 interception, 1 blocked field goal, and 1 forced fumble. As a return specialist he averaged 24.1 yards per kick return on nine returns and 15.8 yards per punt return on six punt returns. As a sophomore, he played in Georgia for Bainbridge and against subpar competition he had 16 catches for 304 yards (second on the team), a 19.0 yard per catch average (first), and 3 touchdowns (third). That accounted for 24.3 percent of the team's passing attack. As a junior in basketball for Munroe, he averaged 7.3 points per game (fourth on the team) on 50 percent shooting (third), with 6.3 rebounds per game (first), 0.9 assists per game (tied for fifth), 1.5 steals per game (fourth). As a sophomore in basketball for Bainbridge, Borden averaged 6.1 points per game (sixth) on 49 percent shooting (third), with 4.1 rebounds per game (tied for second), 0.7 assists per game (tied for ninth), and 2.0 steals per game (fourth). At a 7-on-7 showcase last month he was verified as clocking 21.88 miles per hour top speed. In the absence of a 100 meter time my guess would be that this would convert to an 11.2 or better 100.
Another nice wide receiver get, on paper the top WR recruit we've gotten in the last three cycles (though I prefer Reuben. WR recruiting has become very reliable for us. Borden has size and at least competitive athleticism and it's easy to see him filling at least the end zone specialist role, with an aspirational upside for Arcega-Whiteside/Montgomery kind of things. I'm not sure I'm quite as bullish on him as the services as you'd really like to see more dominance against such poor competition (Jay Tyler and Marcus Graham are the only Shaw receivers ever to play competition this bad). Looking holistically at his offensive production, defensive production, basketball production, etc. and it's hard to see a superlative athlete here. But it is a fairly big guy (forward on his basketball team who has gone up for a fair number of fades on the gridiron) who is a legitimate 4-star. Will never complain about that. I still have concerns that the 2021-2023 WR recruiting is a comedown from the 2017-2020 standard but that was probably inevitable and hopefully we're not done with WR recruiting for 2023 and can get a headliner to supplement the good but not great duo we've now gotten to commit. In the big picture for the 2023 class, we have a serious need to pull in a good class on offense and now have gotten out of the gates with three promising pass catchers. We still need difference makers but it's a nice start.
My son's HS team played against Munroe. They were a bit of a joke. IIRC they had barely enough players to field a team. The score was something like 56-0.
That was 20 years ago, though. Hopefully they have improved since then.
03-13-2022, 08:31 AM
(03-13-2022, 04:37 AM)Phogge Wrote: Stilwell and Donavon were defensive ends.This is true to a large degree, but one of the main reasons for this IMHO is that they are playing against a defense that knows it doesn't have to cover the deep throw. That means at least one more defender (and probably two more) pretty close to the LOS. This cuts down the space to get open by a lot. If the defense also doesn't have to worry about anybody getting "behind" them (because they can run down any "leaks") they can also play everybody pretty tight. You can't run a great route if there is always somebody in the way.
Goose... the recent “possession” WR’s have had trouble getting open. No great route runners.
(03-13-2022, 04:37 AM)Phogge Wrote: Stilwell and Donavon were defensive ends.This is true to a large degree, but one of the main reasons for this IMHO is that they are playing against a defense that knows it doesn't have to cover the deep throw. That means at least one more defender (and probably two more) pretty close to the LOS. This cuts down the space to get open by a lot. If the defense also doesn't have to worry about anybody getting "behind" them (because they can run down any "leaks") they can also play everybody pretty tight. You can't run a great route if there is always somebody in the way.
Goose... the recent “possession” WR’s have had trouble getting open. No great route runners.
03-13-2022, 10:40 AM
(03-13-2022, 05:36 AM)JohnR34231 Wrote:(03-12-2022, 05:48 PM)msqueri Wrote: Three dimensional analysis on Borden:
Services: 247 composite #315 (#42 WR), On3 composite #314 (#47 WR), Rivals 5.8 (#50 WR, same grade as Michael Wilson, Simi Fehoko, Francis Owusu, Kodi Whitfield, Ty Montgomery, Jamal-Rashad Patterson, Chris Owusu), On3 #287 (#45 WR), 247 #59 WR, ESPN #249 (#39 WR)
Offers: Stanford, Auburn, Florida Atlantic, Florida State, Georgia, Georgia Tech, Louisville, Michigan State, Ole Miss, Oregon, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas A&M, USF, Wake Forest, West Virginia, Coastal Carolina, Charlotte, Troy
Production: As a junior, Borden played for Munroe in Florida against absolutely atrocious competition (bottom five percent of competition among all historical Shaw recruits) and had 35 catches for 666 yards (first on the team), a 19.0 yard per catch average (also first), with 4 touchdowns (second). That accounted for 32.5 percent of the passing attack, which would put him eighth among the last 12 Stanford WR recruits I've tracked (admittedly a very strong group). On defense as a junior he had 4.5 tackles per game (sixth on the team), 4 passes defended (third), 1 interception, 1 blocked field goal, and 1 forced fumble. As a return specialist he averaged 24.1 yards per kick return on nine returns and 15.8 yards per punt return on six punt returns. As a sophomore, he played in Georgia for Bainbridge and against subpar competition he had 16 catches for 304 yards (second on the team), a 19.0 yard per catch average (first), and 3 touchdowns (third). That accounted for 24.3 percent of the team's passing attack. As a junior in basketball for Munroe, he averaged 7.3 points per game (fourth on the team) on 50 percent shooting (third), with 6.3 rebounds per game (first), 0.9 assists per game (tied for fifth), 1.5 steals per game (fourth). As a sophomore in basketball for Bainbridge, Borden averaged 6.1 points per game (sixth) on 49 percent shooting (third), with 4.1 rebounds per game (tied for second), 0.7 assists per game (tied for ninth), and 2.0 steals per game (fourth). At a 7-on-7 showcase last month he was verified as clocking 21.88 miles per hour top speed. In the absence of a 100 meter time my guess would be that this would convert to an 11.2 or better 100.
Another nice wide receiver get, on paper the top WR recruit we've gotten in the last three cycles (though I prefer Reuben. WR recruiting has become very reliable for us. Borden has size and at least competitive athleticism and it's easy to see him filling at least the end zone specialist role, with an aspirational upside for Arcega-Whiteside/Montgomery kind of things. I'm not sure I'm quite as bullish on him as the services as you'd really like to see more dominance against such poor competition (Jay Tyler and Marcus Graham are the only Shaw receivers ever to play competition this bad). Looking holistically at his offensive production, defensive production, basketball production, etc. and it's hard to see a superlative athlete here. But it is a fairly big guy (forward on his basketball team who has gone up for a fair number of fades on the gridiron) who is a legitimate 4-star. Will never complain about that. I still have concerns that the 2021-2023 WR recruiting is a comedown from the 2017-2020 standard but that was probably inevitable and hopefully we're not done with WR recruiting for 2023 and can get a headliner to supplement the good but not great duo we've now gotten to commit. In the big picture for the 2023 class, we have a serious need to pull in a good class on offense and now have gotten out of the gates with three promising pass catchers. We still need difference makers but it's a nice start.
My son's HS team played against Munroe. They were a bit of a joke. IIRC they had barely enough players to field a team. The score was something like 56-0.
That was 20 years ago, though. Hopefully they have improved since then.
With Borden this past fall Munroe went 8-3 and lost in the second round of the 2A Florida playoffs. They won eight games the previous year without Borden as well. Before that they had not had a winning season since 2013, so this has been a bit of a renaissance for the Bobcats.
(03-13-2022, 05:36 AM)JohnR34231 Wrote:(03-12-2022, 05:48 PM)msqueri Wrote: Three dimensional analysis on Borden:
Services: 247 composite #315 (#42 WR), On3 composite #314 (#47 WR), Rivals 5.8 (#50 WR, same grade as Michael Wilson, Simi Fehoko, Francis Owusu, Kodi Whitfield, Ty Montgomery, Jamal-Rashad Patterson, Chris Owusu), On3 #287 (#45 WR), 247 #59 WR, ESPN #249 (#39 WR)
Offers: Stanford, Auburn, Florida Atlantic, Florida State, Georgia, Georgia Tech, Louisville, Michigan State, Ole Miss, Oregon, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas A&M, USF, Wake Forest, West Virginia, Coastal Carolina, Charlotte, Troy
Production: As a junior, Borden played for Munroe in Florida against absolutely atrocious competition (bottom five percent of competition among all historical Shaw recruits) and had 35 catches for 666 yards (first on the team), a 19.0 yard per catch average (also first), with 4 touchdowns (second). That accounted for 32.5 percent of the passing attack, which would put him eighth among the last 12 Stanford WR recruits I've tracked (admittedly a very strong group). On defense as a junior he had 4.5 tackles per game (sixth on the team), 4 passes defended (third), 1 interception, 1 blocked field goal, and 1 forced fumble. As a return specialist he averaged 24.1 yards per kick return on nine returns and 15.8 yards per punt return on six punt returns. As a sophomore, he played in Georgia for Bainbridge and against subpar competition he had 16 catches for 304 yards (second on the team), a 19.0 yard per catch average (first), and 3 touchdowns (third). That accounted for 24.3 percent of the team's passing attack. As a junior in basketball for Munroe, he averaged 7.3 points per game (fourth on the team) on 50 percent shooting (third), with 6.3 rebounds per game (first), 0.9 assists per game (tied for fifth), 1.5 steals per game (fourth). As a sophomore in basketball for Bainbridge, Borden averaged 6.1 points per game (sixth) on 49 percent shooting (third), with 4.1 rebounds per game (tied for second), 0.7 assists per game (tied for ninth), and 2.0 steals per game (fourth). At a 7-on-7 showcase last month he was verified as clocking 21.88 miles per hour top speed. In the absence of a 100 meter time my guess would be that this would convert to an 11.2 or better 100.
Another nice wide receiver get, on paper the top WR recruit we've gotten in the last three cycles (though I prefer Reuben. WR recruiting has become very reliable for us. Borden has size and at least competitive athleticism and it's easy to see him filling at least the end zone specialist role, with an aspirational upside for Arcega-Whiteside/Montgomery kind of things. I'm not sure I'm quite as bullish on him as the services as you'd really like to see more dominance against such poor competition (Jay Tyler and Marcus Graham are the only Shaw receivers ever to play competition this bad). Looking holistically at his offensive production, defensive production, basketball production, etc. and it's hard to see a superlative athlete here. But it is a fairly big guy (forward on his basketball team who has gone up for a fair number of fades on the gridiron) who is a legitimate 4-star. Will never complain about that. I still have concerns that the 2021-2023 WR recruiting is a comedown from the 2017-2020 standard but that was probably inevitable and hopefully we're not done with WR recruiting for 2023 and can get a headliner to supplement the good but not great duo we've now gotten to commit. In the big picture for the 2023 class, we have a serious need to pull in a good class on offense and now have gotten out of the gates with three promising pass catchers. We still need difference makers but it's a nice start.
My son's HS team played against Munroe. They were a bit of a joke. IIRC they had barely enough players to field a team. The score was something like 56-0.
That was 20 years ago, though. Hopefully they have improved since then.
With Borden this past fall Munroe went 8-3 and lost in the second round of the 2A Florida playoffs. They won eight games the previous year without Borden as well. Before that they had not had a winning season since 2013, so this has been a bit of a renaissance for the Bobcats.
03-13-2022, 11:25 AM
(03-13-2022, 08:31 AM)Goose Wrote:(03-13-2022, 04:37 AM)Phogge Wrote: Stilwell and Donavon were defensive ends.This is true to a large degree, but one of the main reasons for this IMHO is that they are playing against a defense that knows it doesn't have to cover the deep throw. That means at least one more defender (and probably two more) pretty close to the LOS. This cuts down the space to get open by a lot. If the defense also doesn't have to worry about anybody getting "behind" them (because they can run down any "leaks") they can also play everybody pretty tight. You can't run a great route if there is always somebody in the way.
Goose... the recent “possession” WR’s have had trouble getting open. No great route runners.
I understand all the points about not being able to stretch the defense and do think we lack speed that really strains opposing defenses. Maybe Farrell can give us a little bit of that look, although I'd expect 2023 to be the year he really gets a chance since we have other receivers who will surely soak up most snaps in 2022 pending health.
But it does bear mentioning that it's possible to stretch the defense without a prototypical burner. Tremayne led the Pac-12 in 30+ yard catches in 2020 and was third in 40+ yard catches. Yurosek had two 40+ catches last year and Higgins and Farrell each had one. I wouldn't give up on big plays this year, although it would be preferable to have a starting receiver with Owusu/Rector/Fehoko kind of speed.
Among the pipeline guys we haven't yet seen, Ayomanor is the guy to keep an eye on, but he's done absolutely nothing as a football player. A complete size/athleticism flyer at this point.
(03-13-2022, 08:31 AM)Goose Wrote:(03-13-2022, 04:37 AM)Phogge Wrote: Stilwell and Donavon were defensive ends.This is true to a large degree, but one of the main reasons for this IMHO is that they are playing against a defense that knows it doesn't have to cover the deep throw. That means at least one more defender (and probably two more) pretty close to the LOS. This cuts down the space to get open by a lot. If the defense also doesn't have to worry about anybody getting "behind" them (because they can run down any "leaks") they can also play everybody pretty tight. You can't run a great route if there is always somebody in the way.
Goose... the recent “possession” WR’s have had trouble getting open. No great route runners.
I understand all the points about not being able to stretch the defense and do think we lack speed that really strains opposing defenses. Maybe Farrell can give us a little bit of that look, although I'd expect 2023 to be the year he really gets a chance since we have other receivers who will surely soak up most snaps in 2022 pending health.
But it does bear mentioning that it's possible to stretch the defense without a prototypical burner. Tremayne led the Pac-12 in 30+ yard catches in 2020 and was third in 40+ yard catches. Yurosek had two 40+ catches last year and Higgins and Farrell each had one. I wouldn't give up on big plays this year, although it would be preferable to have a starting receiver with Owusu/Rector/Fehoko kind of speed.
Among the pipeline guys we haven't yet seen, Ayomanor is the guy to keep an eye on, but he's done absolutely nothing as a football player. A complete size/athleticism flyer at this point.
(03-13-2022, 11:25 AM)msqueri Wrote: But it does bear mentioning that it's possible to stretch the defense without a prototypical burner. Tremayne led the Pac-12 in 30+ yard catches in 2020 and was third in 40+ yard catches. Yurosek had two 40+ catches last year and Higgins and Farrell each had one. I wouldn't give up on big plays this year, although it would be preferable to have a starting receiver with Owusu/Rector/Fehoko kind of speed.I think you have to be a bit careful in interpreting the 2020 numbers. In 2020 Fehoko was out there most of the time. That meant he drew the fastest defender a lot of the time and/or made the defense keep two guys deep and play loser coverage as a result. It opened up space for the other receivers to work in, and made everybody better. Also, I suspect those numbers include YAC, which possibly turns 15 yard plays into 30 yard plays. Not saying Tremayne et al are not very useful players. They are just a lot better with a deep threat out there.
(03-13-2022, 11:25 AM)msqueri Wrote: But it does bear mentioning that it's possible to stretch the defense without a prototypical burner. Tremayne led the Pac-12 in 30+ yard catches in 2020 and was third in 40+ yard catches. Yurosek had two 40+ catches last year and Higgins and Farrell each had one. I wouldn't give up on big plays this year, although it would be preferable to have a starting receiver with Owusu/Rector/Fehoko kind of speed.I think you have to be a bit careful in interpreting the 2020 numbers. In 2020 Fehoko was out there most of the time. That meant he drew the fastest defender a lot of the time and/or made the defense keep two guys deep and play loser coverage as a result. It opened up space for the other receivers to work in, and made everybody better. Also, I suspect those numbers include YAC, which possibly turns 15 yard plays into 30 yard plays. Not saying Tremayne et al are not very useful players. They are just a lot better with a deep threat out there.
03-18-2022, 11:28 PM
[tweet]https://twitter.com/stanfordrivals/status/1505068383187857412?s=21[/tweet]
BC
BC
[tweet]https://twitter.com/stanfordrivals/status/1505068383187857412?s=21[/tweet]
BC
BC
03-22-2022, 05:24 PM
(This post was last modified: 03-22-2022, 07:14 PM by BostonCard.)
Not helpful:
[tweet]https://twitter.com/walkerly0ns/status/1506067961076858882?s=21[/tweet]
To add insult to injury, Hunter Clegg retweeted this.
[tweet]https://twitter.com/walkerly0ns/status/1506067961076858882?s=21[/tweet]
To add insult to injury, Hunter Clegg retweeted this.
When I registered here in 2014, TrumpCard seemed like an apolitical user ID...
(This post was last modified: 03-22-2022, 07:14 PM by BostonCard.)
Not helpful:
[tweet]https://twitter.com/walkerly0ns/status/1506067961076858882?s=21[/tweet]
To add insult to injury, Hunter Clegg retweeted this.
[tweet]https://twitter.com/walkerly0ns/status/1506067961076858882?s=21[/tweet]
To add insult to injury, Hunter Clegg retweeted this.
When I registered here in 2014, TrumpCard seemed like an apolitical user ID...
03-22-2022, 05:49 PM
So is Shaw and Stanford going to compete for top players or join the Ivy League? Actually, I'm sure the Ivies are all into NIL too. So D2, drop sports altogether? I doubt it, so does anyone have a clue what Stanford is doing with this cancerous NIL stuff to stay competitive?
So is Shaw and Stanford going to compete for top players or join the Ivy League? Actually, I'm sure the Ivies are all into NIL too. So D2, drop sports altogether? I doubt it, so does anyone have a clue what Stanford is doing with this cancerous NIL stuff to stay competitive?
04-01-2022, 11:41 AM
This weekend's visitors preview (not a complete list)
Mikal Harrison-Pilot 4* ATH/S Temple, TX
Cameron Brandt 3/4* DL Sierra Canyon, CA
Rodrick Robinson 3/4* RB San Diego, CA
Trey Wilson 3* DL Garland, TX
2024- Anthony Carrie 5/4* RB Tampa, FL
Mikal Harrison-Pilot 4* ATH/S Temple, TX
Cameron Brandt 3/4* DL Sierra Canyon, CA
Rodrick Robinson 3/4* RB San Diego, CA
Trey Wilson 3* DL Garland, TX
2024- Anthony Carrie 5/4* RB Tampa, FL
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