[BostonCard]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1313551794623127552?s=20[/tweet]

As always, nothing is final, and this may well be a negotiating ploy.  But the Dow Jones fell almost 600 points in the immediate aftermath of his tweet, so the markets are taking it seriously (note, I'm not saying the stimulus should be passed because the markets are tantruming, but rather that investors believe that this ploy has decreased the chance of a stimulus passing).

BC

[BostonCard]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1313551794623127552?s=20[/tweet]

As always, nothing is final, and this may well be a negotiating ploy.  But the Dow Jones fell almost 600 points in the immediate aftermath of his tweet, so the markets are taking it seriously (note, I'm not saying the stimulus should be passed because the markets are tantruming, but rather that investors believe that this ploy has decreased the chance of a stimulus passing).

BC

[Snorlax94]

I figured that since it is now probably too late to send checks to households with a memo that says “From Donald, Your Greatest President Ever” that will arrive before the election, he now isn’t interested in doing anything at all. This is a giant FU to small businesses that needed clarification on the PPP loans — the processing of forgiveness requests has been so fubar that many banks like Chase stopped accepting them because of federal executive indecisiveness, lack of clarity and delays. This is very very dangerous inaction.

Assiming the Democrats make a clean sweep in November, it’ll be interesting to see what happens. My guess is that Republicans will finally come to the table to get what they can because it’ll be their last chance to get some pork for their benefactors before they’re kicked out.

[Snorlax94]

I figured that since it is now probably too late to send checks to households with a memo that says “From Donald, Your Greatest President Ever” that will arrive before the election, he now isn’t interested in doing anything at all. This is a giant FU to small businesses that needed clarification on the PPP loans — the processing of forgiveness requests has been so fubar that many banks like Chase stopped accepting them because of federal executive indecisiveness, lack of clarity and delays. This is very very dangerous inaction.

Assiming the Democrats make a clean sweep in November, it’ll be interesting to see what happens. My guess is that Republicans will finally come to the table to get what they can because it’ll be their last chance to get some pork for their benefactors before they’re kicked out.

[dabigv13]

Obviously this is terrible, but it just goes again to show that the man is not playing 3D chess, he's not a smart politician, he's an idiot who became president as a champion for the other idiots in this country.

[dabigv13]

Obviously this is terrible, but it just goes again to show that the man is not playing 3D chess, he's not a smart politician, he's an idiot who became president as a champion for the other idiots in this country.

[BostonCard]

I think Snorlax' theory makes the most sense.  Anything that is passed now is too late to materially improve Trump's re-election chances, so why bother.

BC

[BostonCard]

I think Snorlax' theory makes the most sense.  Anything that is passed now is too late to materially improve Trump's re-election chances, so why bother.

BC

[dabigv13]

He is foregoing the chance to send people checks, a month before the election, when he desperately needs to do something to turn around his campaign. Even if voters won't get checks by 11/3, knowing Trump signed the bill could only have helped him.

It is simply moronic.

[dabigv13]

He is foregoing the chance to send people checks, a month before the election, when he desperately needs to do something to turn around his campaign. Even if voters won't get checks by 11/3, knowing Trump signed the bill could only have helped him.

It is simply moronic.

[Goose]

I think Snorlax' theory makes the most sense.  Anything that is passed now is too late to materially improve Trump's re-election chances, so why bother.

BC

I actually hate to say this, but isn't it possibly true that there is just too much stuff attached to this stimulus bill that arguably isn't related to the COVID-19 impact on the economy? Why not pull out the stuff Trump doesn't want, pass what is left, and then pass another bill with the deleted parts? Make Trump veto it (or have it fail in the Senate). At least that way some benefits that everybody agrees upon will be realized.

[Goose]

I think Snorlax' theory makes the most sense.  Anything that is passed now is too late to materially improve Trump's re-election chances, so why bother.

BC

I actually hate to say this, but isn't it possibly true that there is just too much stuff attached to this stimulus bill that arguably isn't related to the COVID-19 impact on the economy? Why not pull out the stuff Trump doesn't want, pass what is left, and then pass another bill with the deleted parts? Make Trump veto it (or have it fail in the Senate). At least that way some benefits that everybody agrees upon will be realized.

[dabigv13]

The Democratic house has passed a bill. The senate will not vote on it. The R's who agree with you could certainly pass their own bill in the Senate. Or release an outline. Or something. They haven't.

[dabigv13]

The Democratic house has passed a bill. The senate will not vote on it. The R's who agree with you could certainly pass their own bill in the Senate. Or release an outline. Or something. They haven't.

[OutsiderFan]

Goose, you are hilarious. It's no more complicated than this:

The POTUS sees cratering poll numbers and decided he won't help Americans unless we vote for him.

[OutsiderFan]

Goose, you are hilarious. It's no more complicated than this:

The POTUS sees cratering poll numbers and decided he won't help Americans unless we vote for him.

[Goose]

The Democratic house has passed a bill. The senate will not vote on it. The R's who agree with you could certainly pass their own bill in the Senate. Or release an outline. Or something. They haven't.

Unfortunately yet another example of "We won't tell you what we want but we will tell you what we don't want". Indeed, if it were really a policy disagreement and not a strictly political disagreement, it would seem the Senate could pass something. Note that I was not saying the House bill is a bad bill. What I was saying is that if one has issues with parts of the House bill, pass the part you don't have issues with. That way, the American people get the help that we have a consensus about. Argue about the rest later.

[Goose]

The Democratic house has passed a bill. The senate will not vote on it. The R's who agree with you could certainly pass their own bill in the Senate. Or release an outline. Or something. They haven't.

Unfortunately yet another example of "We won't tell you what we want but we will tell you what we don't want". Indeed, if it were really a policy disagreement and not a strictly political disagreement, it would seem the Senate could pass something. Note that I was not saying the House bill is a bad bill. What I was saying is that if one has issues with parts of the House bill, pass the part you don't have issues with. That way, the American people get the help that we have a consensus about. Argue about the rest later.

[lex24]

They will pass something.  Just a matter of when and the final price tag.

[lex24]

They will pass something.  Just a matter of when and the final price tag.

[Goose]

Goose, you are hilarious. It's no more complicated than this:

The POTUS sees cratering poll numbers and decided he won't help Americans unless we vote for him.

OF, you possibly understand the POTUS's mind better than I do. I don't see how blocking the stimulus gets him any votes he doesn't already have. If it were a different president, I might believe it was because he really did feel the bill contained too much non-stimulus pork. With this president, I don't hazard a guess at why he does anything. He doesn't seem big on reasoning, mostly relying on "gut feel", whatever that means.

[Goose]

Goose, you are hilarious. It's no more complicated than this:

The POTUS sees cratering poll numbers and decided he won't help Americans unless we vote for him.

OF, you possibly understand the POTUS's mind better than I do. I don't see how blocking the stimulus gets him any votes he doesn't already have. If it were a different president, I might believe it was because he really did feel the bill contained too much non-stimulus pork. With this president, I don't hazard a guess at why he does anything. He doesn't seem big on reasoning, mostly relying on "gut feel", whatever that means.

[BostonCard]

As I understand it, the biggest stumbling blocks were aid to states, liability protections for businesses, and expanded unemployment provisions.  Despite evidence that the $600 expanded benefits did not dis-incentivize working, there is a strong current of belief that it does, and enough anecdotal stories of people not going back to work because they were making more money on unemployment to support those beliefs.  To my mind, this was the most easy to solve; the two sides could have compromised on the amount of expanded unemployment and the speed of a taper.

Aid to states also seemed to me like it should have been amenable to splitting the difference between the two sides.

I don't think liability protections are that big a deal, but also they are probably the most difficult one to find a solution "in between" shielding businesses from COVID-19 related lawsuits and not doing so.

BC

[BostonCard]

As I understand it, the biggest stumbling blocks were aid to states, liability protections for businesses, and expanded unemployment provisions.  Despite evidence that the $600 expanded benefits did not dis-incentivize working, there is a strong current of belief that it does, and enough anecdotal stories of people not going back to work because they were making more money on unemployment to support those beliefs.  To my mind, this was the most easy to solve; the two sides could have compromised on the amount of expanded unemployment and the speed of a taper.

Aid to states also seemed to me like it should have been amenable to splitting the difference between the two sides.

I don't think liability protections are that big a deal, but also they are probably the most difficult one to find a solution "in between" shielding businesses from COVID-19 related lawsuits and not doing so.

BC

[oregontim]

The tweet says it all. In Trump's all-about-me world he is the revered leader of the good fighting against evil. Everything divides into for-me or against-me. He is president of for-me and mortal enemy of against-me. There is no lie, no offense, no failure, and of course no shame in fighting the evil of "against me."

Democrats and Democratic states or cities = against me. So F all of them.

[oregontim]

The tweet says it all. In Trump's all-about-me world he is the revered leader of the good fighting against evil. Everything divides into for-me or against-me. He is president of for-me and mortal enemy of against-me. There is no lie, no offense, no failure, and of course no shame in fighting the evil of "against me."

Democrats and Democratic states or cities = against me. So F all of them.

[OutsiderFan]

Goose, you are hilarious. It's no more complicated than this:

The POTUS sees cratering poll numbers and decided he won't help Americans unless we vote for him.

OF, you possibly understand the POTUS's mind better than I do. I don't see how blocking the stimulus gets him any votes he doesn't already have. If it were a different president, I might believe it was because he really did feel the bill contained too much non-stimulus pork. With this president, I don't hazard a guess at why he does anything. He doesn't seem big on reasoning, mostly relying on "gut feel", whatever that means.

You have to stop thinking of Donald J. Trump as a rational, sane person. He is mentally ill. He is a malignant narcissist. He ONLY cares about himself and thinks he is infallible. On top of that, he only knows how to get things by threatening people and conning them. Every time he has an opportunity to make a choice, he makes the wrong one, no matter how self-destructive it is.

It's foolish to apply any logic to what he does. There isn't going to be any there. There was a poll releases that said 74% of Americans want the Senate to address Covid relief before SCOTUS nominee.  So what does the POTUS do? Kills Covid relief as a GIANT middle finger to Americans.

[OutsiderFan]

Goose, you are hilarious. It's no more complicated than this:

The POTUS sees cratering poll numbers and decided he won't help Americans unless we vote for him.

OF, you possibly understand the POTUS's mind better than I do. I don't see how blocking the stimulus gets him any votes he doesn't already have. If it were a different president, I might believe it was because he really did feel the bill contained too much non-stimulus pork. With this president, I don't hazard a guess at why he does anything. He doesn't seem big on reasoning, mostly relying on "gut feel", whatever that means.

You have to stop thinking of Donald J. Trump as a rational, sane person. He is mentally ill. He is a malignant narcissist. He ONLY cares about himself and thinks he is infallible. On top of that, he only knows how to get things by threatening people and conning them. Every time he has an opportunity to make a choice, he makes the wrong one, no matter how self-destructive it is.

It's foolish to apply any logic to what he does. There isn't going to be any there. There was a poll releases that said 74% of Americans want the Senate to address Covid relief before SCOTUS nominee.  So what does the POTUS do? Kills Covid relief as a GIANT middle finger to Americans.

[BostonCard]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/JStein_WaPo/status/1313607518585786368?s=20[/tweet]

Interesting angle.  Multiple Republican senators are on record as saying that they weren't going to vote for a second stimulus, and it could be that a big stimulus would have meant that McConnell was only going to be able to pass it with mostly Democratic support (and vulnerable Republicans).

This makes sense to me, because there are definitely senators in the Republican caucus who are very unenthusiastic about a stimulus, let alone one the size that Pelosi and Mnuchin were discussing.

BC

[BostonCard]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/JStein_WaPo/status/1313607518585786368?s=20[/tweet]

Interesting angle.  Multiple Republican senators are on record as saying that they weren't going to vote for a second stimulus, and it could be that a big stimulus would have meant that McConnell was only going to be able to pass it with mostly Democratic support (and vulnerable Republicans).

This makes sense to me, because there are definitely senators in the Republican caucus who are very unenthusiastic about a stimulus, let alone one the size that Pelosi and Mnuchin were discussing.

BC

[fullmetal]

And so Rome burns while Nero fiddles...with a blue bird app on his phone.

I think Jerome Powell put it best: this lack of stimulus is going to have "economically tragic consequences."

[fullmetal]

And so Rome burns while Nero fiddles...with a blue bird app on his phone.

I think Jerome Powell put it best: this lack of stimulus is going to have "economically tragic consequences."

[akiddoc]

This is the kind of thing that even makes Republicans hate Trump. Actually, many hate him anyway. They'd be happy to discard him if they could think of a way. Is it the Dexamethasone? Or is it Trump being Trump?

A quote regarding the shut down of stimulus talks from Business Insider: A Trump campaign adviser told Axios: "You have to try to be this politically inept. What is going on in the White House? Where is Mark Meadows?" 


https://www.businessinsider.com/gop-lawm...ks-2020-10

If you see the Claudia Conway article there, it's pretty funny. At least if Trump is not your favorite person. 

[akiddoc]

This is the kind of thing that even makes Republicans hate Trump. Actually, many hate him anyway. They'd be happy to discard him if they could think of a way. Is it the Dexamethasone? Or is it Trump being Trump?

A quote regarding the shut down of stimulus talks from Business Insider: A Trump campaign adviser told Axios: "You have to try to be this politically inept. What is going on in the White House? Where is Mark Meadows?" 


https://www.businessinsider.com/gop-lawm...ks-2020-10

If you see the Claudia Conway article there, it's pretty funny. At least if Trump is not your favorite person. 

[BostonCard]

So, now, maybe stimulus?

[tweet]https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1313682545775697920?s=20[/tweet]

BC

[BostonCard]

So, now, maybe stimulus?

[tweet]https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1313682545775697920?s=20[/tweet]

BC

[Snorlax94]

So, the Republican Senate can’t agree on a comprehensive stimulus to help all businesses, hard-hit industries, help schools and health clinics, and do the right thing for America long-term regardless of who wins the election.

But Trump wants to send voters a $1,200 check the week before the election, with his name in the memo field, from Your Pal President Trump.

I could run a BINGO board and see what gets marked off. The proposals may get more and more bizarre (and desperate) each day:
President doesn’t need Congressional approval — will send $4,000 checks to all voters next week! Starting in Florida, Pennsylvania, Georgia and Michigan.

Unproven vaccine authorized

Unproven therapeutic authorized

Secret CURE for Covid - but deep state won’t release it until Nov 4!

Trump announces all Medicare Supplemental Plans will be FREE! starting next year!

Covid actually invented by OBAMA to cover up secret pedophilia trafficking!

Trump negotiates miracle vaccine from Russia to be delivered by Thanksgiving!

New  Story on Biden with assistance from the Investigators at Russia’s FSB

Covid a HOAX! Actually no one really died from it!

Secret Economic Plan to Make Everyone in America a Multimillionaire — to be released in December!

Actual source of Covid? Clinton’s E-mail Server!

Threat of Nuclear War with N Korea??

Threat of Nuclear War with Iran??

Secret truth — coal doesn’t emit ANY greenhouse gases!

UFOs??!

All Bingo boards already start with 2 gimmes: SOCIALISM! and ANTIFA!!!

[Snorlax94]

So, the Republican Senate can’t agree on a comprehensive stimulus to help all businesses, hard-hit industries, help schools and health clinics, and do the right thing for America long-term regardless of who wins the election.

But Trump wants to send voters a $1,200 check the week before the election, with his name in the memo field, from Your Pal President Trump.

I could run a BINGO board and see what gets marked off. The proposals may get more and more bizarre (and desperate) each day:
President doesn’t need Congressional approval — will send $4,000 checks to all voters next week! Starting in Florida, Pennsylvania, Georgia and Michigan.

Unproven vaccine authorized

Unproven therapeutic authorized

Secret CURE for Covid - but deep state won’t release it until Nov 4!

Trump announces all Medicare Supplemental Plans will be FREE! starting next year!

Covid actually invented by OBAMA to cover up secret pedophilia trafficking!

Trump negotiates miracle vaccine from Russia to be delivered by Thanksgiving!

New  Story on Biden with assistance from the Investigators at Russia’s FSB

Covid a HOAX! Actually no one really died from it!

Secret Economic Plan to Make Everyone in America a Multimillionaire — to be released in December!

Actual source of Covid? Clinton’s E-mail Server!

Threat of Nuclear War with N Korea??

Threat of Nuclear War with Iran??

Secret truth — coal doesn’t emit ANY greenhouse gases!

UFOs??!

All Bingo boards already start with 2 gimmes: SOCIALISM! and ANTIFA!!!

[Genuine Realist]

So, now, maybe stimulus?

[tweet]https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1313682545775697920?s=20[/tweet]

BC

Provided a nice opportunity for the day traders.

The Trump fans (I know a couple) see this as a tactic to scare the bejeezus out of the Congress as to the consequences of not passing a bill. And if they do come to a compromise in the next few days, who's to say they're wrong?

Looking at the Presidency as the core of governmental frustration, be it Bush, Obama, or Trump, is just wrong, wrong, wrong. The real Constitutional crisis is the utter inability of Congress to act as a deliberative body. If you say the Democrats or Republicans are the responsibles, you're part of the problem. It's both, e.g, if you're inveighing against McConnell for blocking the Garland nomination in 2016, you might consider the obstructions the Democrats put up to Bush nominees between 2005 to 2008, filibustering five of them in a row, who had votes enough to confirm, but not for cloture. It's a mess.

[Genuine Realist]

So, now, maybe stimulus?

[tweet]https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1313682545775697920?s=20[/tweet]

BC

Provided a nice opportunity for the day traders.

The Trump fans (I know a couple) see this as a tactic to scare the bejeezus out of the Congress as to the consequences of not passing a bill. And if they do come to a compromise in the next few days, who's to say they're wrong?

Looking at the Presidency as the core of governmental frustration, be it Bush, Obama, or Trump, is just wrong, wrong, wrong. The real Constitutional crisis is the utter inability of Congress to act as a deliberative body. If you say the Democrats or Republicans are the responsibles, you're part of the problem. It's both, e.g, if you're inveighing against McConnell for blocking the Garland nomination in 2016, you might consider the obstructions the Democrats put up to Bush nominees between 2005 to 2008, filibustering five of them in a row, who had votes enough to confirm, but not for cloture. It's a mess.