08-02-2021, 12:55 PM
[tweet]https://twitter.com/PFF_College/status/1422264715791712262?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1422264715791712262%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=[/tweet]
More conference realignment?
[tweet]https://twitter.com/PFF_College/status/1422264715791712262?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1422264715791712262%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=[/tweet]
08-02-2021, 01:28 PM
If the P12 takes any action, it needs to make the conference more attractive for tv money. The P12 is already so far behind the SEC that it will never catch up. But it at least can try not to fall further behind.
Adding any of the remaining B12 schools will do nothing to move the needle on the next P12 tv contract. TCU, Texas Tech, OSU, etc. have demonstrated that they draw small tv audiences unless they are playing OU or Texas. Same with BYU, Rice, Houston. The Athletic estimates that the remaining B12 schools might be worth $10-15M a year per school in a standalone tv contract. Even the P12 schools currently get more than double that amount. The SEC and B10 are over $50M per school per year and may be looking at $80-90M in the next tv contract.
Right now the SEC is like a distant galaxy that is moving away from the P12 at an accelerating rate. I think the only viable avenue for the P12 is a B10 partnership.
Adding any of the remaining B12 schools will do nothing to move the needle on the next P12 tv contract. TCU, Texas Tech, OSU, etc. have demonstrated that they draw small tv audiences unless they are playing OU or Texas. Same with BYU, Rice, Houston. The Athletic estimates that the remaining B12 schools might be worth $10-15M a year per school in a standalone tv contract. Even the P12 schools currently get more than double that amount. The SEC and B10 are over $50M per school per year and may be looking at $80-90M in the next tv contract.
Right now the SEC is like a distant galaxy that is moving away from the P12 at an accelerating rate. I think the only viable avenue for the P12 is a B10 partnership.
"We have an unwritten rule around here not to do anything stupid."
-Casey Jacobsen, Feb 3, 2000
If the P12 takes any action, it needs to make the conference more attractive for tv money. The P12 is already so far behind the SEC that it will never catch up. But it at least can try not to fall further behind.
Adding any of the remaining B12 schools will do nothing to move the needle on the next P12 tv contract. TCU, Texas Tech, OSU, etc. have demonstrated that they draw small tv audiences unless they are playing OU or Texas. Same with BYU, Rice, Houston. The Athletic estimates that the remaining B12 schools might be worth $10-15M a year per school in a standalone tv contract. Even the P12 schools currently get more than double that amount. The SEC and B10 are over $50M per school per year and may be looking at $80-90M in the next tv contract.
Right now the SEC is like a distant galaxy that is moving away from the P12 at an accelerating rate. I think the only viable avenue for the P12 is a B10 partnership.
Adding any of the remaining B12 schools will do nothing to move the needle on the next P12 tv contract. TCU, Texas Tech, OSU, etc. have demonstrated that they draw small tv audiences unless they are playing OU or Texas. Same with BYU, Rice, Houston. The Athletic estimates that the remaining B12 schools might be worth $10-15M a year per school in a standalone tv contract. Even the P12 schools currently get more than double that amount. The SEC and B10 are over $50M per school per year and may be looking at $80-90M in the next tv contract.
Right now the SEC is like a distant galaxy that is moving away from the P12 at an accelerating rate. I think the only viable avenue for the P12 is a B10 partnership.
"We have an unwritten rule around here not to do anything stupid."
-Casey Jacobsen, Feb 3, 2000
08-02-2021, 01:59 PM
(08-02-2021, 12:55 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: [tweet]https://twitter.com/PFF_College/status/1422264715791712262?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1422264715791712262%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=[/tweet]
Very unlikely given the ACC Grant of Rights situation. Unless, of course, they know an attorney who can figure out a way around the contract or they have a bottomless well of cash they can access.
(08-02-2021, 12:55 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: [tweet]https://twitter.com/PFF_College/status/1422264715791712262?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1422264715791712262%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=[/tweet]
Very unlikely given the ACC Grant of Rights situation. Unless, of course, they know an attorney who can figure out a way around the contract or they have a bottomless well of cash they can access.
08-03-2021, 10:33 AM
Apparently Bowlsby has reached out to Kliavkoff about a scheduling alliance, which isn't a terrible idea. Gives us a guaranteed P5 opponent, makes the overall TV slate slightly more attractive than it would be with some FCS/DII teams mixed in there. Doesn't move the needle a ton, but it does raise the floor. I'd rather see that scheduling alliance with the Big Ten, of course. Or the ACC. Or both!
We have three non-conference games. Long term, one can be Notre Dame, one can be Big Ten, and one can be ACC. USC would be the same, but the rest of the conference can pick an easier opponent if they want or a different rivalry (like Utah-BYU, CU-CSU, etc.). Yeah, I know, that's hard, but if the Big Ten and ACC are all in on going that route, we can make the TV product somewhat more attractive.
But the Bowlsby-Kliavkoff summit is just talk so far. I can see the value in a road game in Texas for the recruiting aspect. But I'm not excited about road games in Lawrence, Manhattan, Stillwater, Ames, or Morgantown, that's for sure. Just don't see why that's a better choice for Stanford football than Big Ten or ACC opponents.
But especially if Clemson and FSU move to the SEC (though Giants is right to note the extreme financial costs that would result if that happens), we have to do something, right?
We have three non-conference games. Long term, one can be Notre Dame, one can be Big Ten, and one can be ACC. USC would be the same, but the rest of the conference can pick an easier opponent if they want or a different rivalry (like Utah-BYU, CU-CSU, etc.). Yeah, I know, that's hard, but if the Big Ten and ACC are all in on going that route, we can make the TV product somewhat more attractive.
But the Bowlsby-Kliavkoff summit is just talk so far. I can see the value in a road game in Texas for the recruiting aspect. But I'm not excited about road games in Lawrence, Manhattan, Stillwater, Ames, or Morgantown, that's for sure. Just don't see why that's a better choice for Stanford football than Big Ten or ACC opponents.
But especially if Clemson and FSU move to the SEC (though Giants is right to note the extreme financial costs that would result if that happens), we have to do something, right?
Apparently Bowlsby has reached out to Kliavkoff about a scheduling alliance, which isn't a terrible idea. Gives us a guaranteed P5 opponent, makes the overall TV slate slightly more attractive than it would be with some FCS/DII teams mixed in there. Doesn't move the needle a ton, but it does raise the floor. I'd rather see that scheduling alliance with the Big Ten, of course. Or the ACC. Or both!
We have three non-conference games. Long term, one can be Notre Dame, one can be Big Ten, and one can be ACC. USC would be the same, but the rest of the conference can pick an easier opponent if they want or a different rivalry (like Utah-BYU, CU-CSU, etc.). Yeah, I know, that's hard, but if the Big Ten and ACC are all in on going that route, we can make the TV product somewhat more attractive.
But the Bowlsby-Kliavkoff summit is just talk so far. I can see the value in a road game in Texas for the recruiting aspect. But I'm not excited about road games in Lawrence, Manhattan, Stillwater, Ames, or Morgantown, that's for sure. Just don't see why that's a better choice for Stanford football than Big Ten or ACC opponents.
But especially if Clemson and FSU move to the SEC (though Giants is right to note the extreme financial costs that would result if that happens), we have to do something, right?
We have three non-conference games. Long term, one can be Notre Dame, one can be Big Ten, and one can be ACC. USC would be the same, but the rest of the conference can pick an easier opponent if they want or a different rivalry (like Utah-BYU, CU-CSU, etc.). Yeah, I know, that's hard, but if the Big Ten and ACC are all in on going that route, we can make the TV product somewhat more attractive.
But the Bowlsby-Kliavkoff summit is just talk so far. I can see the value in a road game in Texas for the recruiting aspect. But I'm not excited about road games in Lawrence, Manhattan, Stillwater, Ames, or Morgantown, that's for sure. Just don't see why that's a better choice for Stanford football than Big Ten or ACC opponents.
But especially if Clemson and FSU move to the SEC (though Giants is right to note the extreme financial costs that would result if that happens), we have to do something, right?
08-03-2021, 10:35 AM
(08-02-2021, 01:59 PM)Giants Wrote:(08-02-2021, 12:55 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: [tweet]https://twitter.com/PFF_College/status/1422264715791712262?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1422264715791712262%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=[/tweet]
Very unlikely given the ACC Grant of Rights situation. Unless, of course, they know an attorney who can figure out a way around the contract or they have a bottomless well of cash they can access.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OyBtMPqpNY
The only constant in life is change.
(08-02-2021, 01:59 PM)Giants Wrote:(08-02-2021, 12:55 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: [tweet]https://twitter.com/PFF_College/status/1422264715791712262?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1422264715791712262%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=[/tweet]
Very unlikely given the ACC Grant of Rights situation. Unless, of course, they know an attorney who can figure out a way around the contract or they have a bottomless well of cash they can access.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OyBtMPqpNY
The only constant in life is change.
08-03-2021, 11:29 AM
The answer is eight man football played by lightweights.
Anybody remember Trial Hikes, white Voit footballs, Foto-Electric Football, Tudor Tru Action, the Christopher Milk Zone and Pink Popcorn?
Anybody remember Trial Hikes, white Voit footballs, Foto-Electric Football, Tudor Tru Action, the Christopher Milk Zone and Pink Popcorn?
08-03-2021, 11:46 AM
(08-03-2021, 11:29 AM)Phogge Wrote: The answer is eight man football played by lightweights.
Anybody remember Trial Hikes, white Voit footballs, Foto-Electric Football, Tudor Tru Action, the Christopher Milk Zone and Pink Popcorn?
Yes to all of the about except Tudor Tru Action.
08-03-2021, 01:32 PM
(08-01-2021, 10:25 AM)Maple Leaf Wrote:(08-01-2021, 09:25 AM)Phogge Wrote: There would be multiple novenas in South Bend. TD Jesus would come off the facade and lead an army of resurrected saints (Knute, Gipp, the 4 Horsemen, Pat O'Brien) to wake up the echoes.
No way the Irish are out of the playoff because since ESPN owns college football and NBC owns the Domers they are safe.
I cringe with the thought that NBC will merge the domers with the Olympics, I think they are testing out the concept with some of the announcers they have on prime time covering the Olympics; of course ABC took this approach when they had the Olympics and oj/usc.
If you saw the video commingling Notre Dame with the U. S. Olympic fencing program, you'd know the answer to that issue...
Audaces fortuna iuvat
(08-01-2021, 10:25 AM)Maple Leaf Wrote:(08-01-2021, 09:25 AM)Phogge Wrote: There would be multiple novenas in South Bend. TD Jesus would come off the facade and lead an army of resurrected saints (Knute, Gipp, the 4 Horsemen, Pat O'Brien) to wake up the echoes.
No way the Irish are out of the playoff because since ESPN owns college football and NBC owns the Domers they are safe.
I cringe with the thought that NBC will merge the domers with the Olympics, I think they are testing out the concept with some of the announcers they have on prime time covering the Olympics; of course ABC took this approach when they had the Olympics and oj/usc.
If you saw the video commingling Notre Dame with the U. S. Olympic fencing program, you'd know the answer to that issue...
Audaces fortuna iuvat
Softball Fan
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08-03-2021, 04:37 PM
The ESPN talk show Around the Horn discussed Big10 and Pac-12 combining. There was a consensus of the four commentators on these two points: 1.) It may make sense for football because there is only one game per week, and 2.) It makes absolutely no sense for any sport with more than one contest per week.
They also pointed out this conference combination talk seems to ignore the student part of student athlete.
They also pointed out this conference combination talk seems to ignore the student part of student athlete.
The ESPN talk show Around the Horn discussed Big10 and Pac-12 combining. There was a consensus of the four commentators on these two points: 1.) It may make sense for football because there is only one game per week, and 2.) It makes absolutely no sense for any sport with more than one contest per week.
They also pointed out this conference combination talk seems to ignore the student part of student athlete.
They also pointed out this conference combination talk seems to ignore the student part of student athlete.
08-04-2021, 05:31 AM
The ATH panel doesn't have the knowledge to really understand the Pac's situation. And they certainly didn't address the possibility of a football-only arrangement between the used to be Big 12 (UTBB12). It makes more sense for the Pac to do a scheduling alliance with the B1G and ACC, and let the UTBB12 become further marginalized and fade into irrelevance.
The UTBB12 will lose half its TV value with OU and UT bolting for SEC. Why would the Pac want a part of that?
The UTBB12 will lose half its TV value with OU and UT bolting for SEC. Why would the Pac want a part of that?
The ATH panel doesn't have the knowledge to really understand the Pac's situation. And they certainly didn't address the possibility of a football-only arrangement between the used to be Big 12 (UTBB12). It makes more sense for the Pac to do a scheduling alliance with the B1G and ACC, and let the UTBB12 become further marginalized and fade into irrelevance.
The UTBB12 will lose half its TV value with OU and UT bolting for SEC. Why would the Pac want a part of that?
The UTBB12 will lose half its TV value with OU and UT bolting for SEC. Why would the Pac want a part of that?
(08-04-2021, 05:31 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: The UTBB12 will lose half its TV value with OU and UT bolting for SEC. Why would the Pac want a part of that?Good question. I suspect the PAC doesn't. However, this illustrates IMHO a better question. Is it necessary and/or good to decide all policy questions for collegiate athletics based on the best way to make the most money (TV value)? If it is really all about the Benjamins then I think amateur college athletics is done for anyway. What the PAC-12 and the other conferences need to seek is a "middle way". They need enough money to operate, but competing with each other and the SEC is a fools errand. Texas and Oklahoma recognize that and since they can't beat them want to join them. Fine, they can play semi-pro football and be happy. That isn't what college athletics should be IMHO. You needn't be the Ivy League to retain your amateur standing, but you can't be the SEC/NCAA under the current regulatory system either. Get legislation to make a middle way (with plenty of collusion and some associated socialism) possible.
(08-04-2021, 05:31 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: The UTBB12 will lose half its TV value with OU and UT bolting for SEC. Why would the Pac want a part of that?Good question. I suspect the PAC doesn't. However, this illustrates IMHO a better question. Is it necessary and/or good to decide all policy questions for collegiate athletics based on the best way to make the most money (TV value)? If it is really all about the Benjamins then I think amateur college athletics is done for anyway. What the PAC-12 and the other conferences need to seek is a "middle way". They need enough money to operate, but competing with each other and the SEC is a fools errand. Texas and Oklahoma recognize that and since they can't beat them want to join them. Fine, they can play semi-pro football and be happy. That isn't what college athletics should be IMHO. You needn't be the Ivy League to retain your amateur standing, but you can't be the SEC/NCAA under the current regulatory system either. Get legislation to make a middle way (with plenty of collusion and some associated socialism) possible.
08-04-2021, 10:58 AM
(08-04-2021, 05:31 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: The ATH panel doesn't have the knowledge to really understand the Pac's situation. And they certainly didn't address the possibility of a football-only arrangement between the used to be Big 12 (UTBB12). It makes more sense for the Pac to do a scheduling alliance with the B1G and ACC, and let the UTBB12 become further marginalized and fade into irrelevance.
The UTBB12 will lose half its TV value with OU and UT bolting for SEC. Why would the Pac want a part of that?
The UUTBB12 is going to lose even more than half its TV value, and I doubt that the Pac-12 wants to be part of that. But in a crisis it's important to explore all options and to publicly communicate that you aren't locked into one strategy, in order to maintain some leverage when pursuing whatever the optimal strategy is.
(08-04-2021, 05:31 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: The ATH panel doesn't have the knowledge to really understand the Pac's situation. And they certainly didn't address the possibility of a football-only arrangement between the used to be Big 12 (UTBB12). It makes more sense for the Pac to do a scheduling alliance with the B1G and ACC, and let the UTBB12 become further marginalized and fade into irrelevance.
The UTBB12 will lose half its TV value with OU and UT bolting for SEC. Why would the Pac want a part of that?
The UUTBB12 is going to lose even more than half its TV value, and I doubt that the Pac-12 wants to be part of that. But in a crisis it's important to explore all options and to publicly communicate that you aren't locked into one strategy, in order to maintain some leverage when pursuing whatever the optimal strategy is.
08-13-2021, 07:13 PM
https://theathletic.com/news/big-ten-pac...v1mfs4guai
The comments on the twitter thread are interesting (for example):
[tweet]https://twitter.com/eer1867/status/1426360057571258368?s=20[/tweet]
BC
Quote:Talks have centered around not just a scheduling alliance in football but in broader cooperation, according to sources in the three conferences. Pac-12 commissioner George Kliavkoff, Big Ten commissioner Kevin Warren and ACC commissioner Jim Phillips have been having conversations for several weeks.
The comments on the twitter thread are interesting (for example):
[tweet]https://twitter.com/eer1867/status/1426360057571258368?s=20[/tweet]
BC
https://theathletic.com/news/big-ten-pac...v1mfs4guai
The comments on the twitter thread are interesting (for example):
[tweet]https://twitter.com/eer1867/status/1426360057571258368?s=20[/tweet]
BC
Quote:Talks have centered around not just a scheduling alliance in football but in broader cooperation, according to sources in the three conferences. Pac-12 commissioner George Kliavkoff, Big Ten commissioner Kevin Warren and ACC commissioner Jim Phillips have been having conversations for several weeks.
The comments on the twitter thread are interesting (for example):
[tweet]https://twitter.com/eer1867/status/1426360057571258368?s=20[/tweet]
BC
08-14-2021, 07:50 AM
This is exactly what I thought would happen, based on the dynamics as I perceived them, that include not seeing any schools ready to give up the "golden football goose," including Stanford and Cal.
What you are seeing is economic warfare between the SEC and all major sports playing universities. The SEC could potentially be making a bad mistake by trying to separate itself from the rest of major college sports leagues. When you look at the SEC footprint, it matches the Confederacy, so hardly surprising.
What you are seeing is economic warfare between the SEC and all major sports playing universities. The SEC could potentially be making a bad mistake by trying to separate itself from the rest of major college sports leagues. When you look at the SEC footprint, it matches the Confederacy, so hardly surprising.
This is exactly what I thought would happen, based on the dynamics as I perceived them, that include not seeing any schools ready to give up the "golden football goose," including Stanford and Cal.
What you are seeing is economic warfare between the SEC and all major sports playing universities. The SEC could potentially be making a bad mistake by trying to separate itself from the rest of major college sports leagues. When you look at the SEC footprint, it matches the Confederacy, so hardly surprising.
What you are seeing is economic warfare between the SEC and all major sports playing universities. The SEC could potentially be making a bad mistake by trying to separate itself from the rest of major college sports leagues. When you look at the SEC footprint, it matches the Confederacy, so hardly surprising.
08-15-2021, 10:52 AM
(08-02-2021, 10:44 AM)MBA85 Wrote:(08-02-2021, 10:14 AM)Phogge Wrote: I would rather add Eastern Washington and ND State than TCU and Rice.
North Dakota is a much better recruiting ground than Texas.
Exactly. Not to mention the overpowering value of the North Dakota + East half of Washington TV market vs Houston and Dallas/Fort Worth. Why in the world would we want access to Texas athletes and Texas. Iewers?
(08-02-2021, 10:44 AM)MBA85 Wrote:(08-02-2021, 10:14 AM)Phogge Wrote: I would rather add Eastern Washington and ND State than TCU and Rice.
North Dakota is a much better recruiting ground than Texas.
Exactly. Not to mention the overpowering value of the North Dakota + East half of Washington TV market vs Houston and Dallas/Fort Worth. Why in the world would we want access to Texas athletes and Texas. Iewers?
08-15-2021, 11:49 AM
(08-02-2021, 10:44 AM)MBA85 Wrote:(08-02-2021, 10:14 AM)Phogge Wrote: I would rather add Eastern Washington and ND State than TCU and Rice.
North Dakota is a much better recruiting ground than Texas.
Exactly. Not to mention the overpowering value of the North Dakota + East half of Washington TV market vs Houston and Dallas/Fort Worth. Why in the world would we want access to Texas athletes and Texas. Iewers?
(08-02-2021, 10:44 AM)MBA85 Wrote:(08-02-2021, 10:14 AM)Phogge Wrote: I would rather add Eastern Washington and ND State than TCU and Rice.
North Dakota is a much better recruiting ground than Texas.
Exactly. Not to mention the overpowering value of the North Dakota + East half of Washington TV market vs Houston and Dallas/Fort Worth. Why in the world would we want access to Texas athletes and Texas. Iewers?
08-20-2021, 12:06 PM
Nicole Auerbach (who is usually very well sourced) reported today that the Big-X, PAC-12 and ACC will soon announce a formal alliance, perhaps as early as next week.
08-20-2021, 12:36 PM
The real Rose Bowl... Big 14 vs Pac 12 (or 14). Add a fourth conference, tell the SEC to screw itself and have your own "National Champion."
Hopefully after all this Congress closes down contact sports and baseball regains its rightful place. Fencing becomes big. Fly casting catches the country's interest. Dogs and cats mate. Every house has a robot servant. JohnnyO becomes a monk in Lhasa. One can hope.
Hopefully after all this Congress closes down contact sports and baseball regains its rightful place. Fencing becomes big. Fly casting catches the country's interest. Dogs and cats mate. Every house has a robot servant. JohnnyO becomes a monk in Lhasa. One can hope.
The real Rose Bowl... Big 14 vs Pac 12 (or 14). Add a fourth conference, tell the SEC to screw itself and have your own "National Champion."
Hopefully after all this Congress closes down contact sports and baseball regains its rightful place. Fencing becomes big. Fly casting catches the country's interest. Dogs and cats mate. Every house has a robot servant. JohnnyO becomes a monk in Lhasa. One can hope.
Hopefully after all this Congress closes down contact sports and baseball regains its rightful place. Fencing becomes big. Fly casting catches the country's interest. Dogs and cats mate. Every house has a robot servant. JohnnyO becomes a monk in Lhasa. One can hope.
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