10-11-2021, 06:45 PM
any chance Shaw could be the replacement? he'd be strong in all the areas that Gruden fell well short on...
Gruden out at Raiders
10-11-2021, 06:54 PM
Social media and emails contain traps, hidden pungee pits and lawsuit seekers. Stay off fellas.
10-11-2021, 07:05 PM
(10-11-2021, 06:54 PM)Phogge Wrote: Social media and emails contain traps, hidden pungee pits and lawsuit seekers. Stay off fellas.
told to me long ago, never write anything in email you would be embarrassed about if it was either in the news or if you had to explain it to your mom...
Eric
"the older we get the better we were"
(10-11-2021, 06:54 PM)Phogge Wrote: Social media and emails contain traps, hidden pungee pits and lawsuit seekers. Stay off fellas.
told to me long ago, never write anything in email you would be embarrassed about if it was either in the news or if you had to explain it to your mom...
Eric
"the older we get the better we were"
10-11-2021, 07:34 PM
I wonder if Shaw will be asked for comment at the press conference, given that he often singles out Gruden as his biggest mentor.
I wonder if Shaw will be asked for comment at the press conference, given that he often singles out Gruden as his biggest mentor.
10-12-2021, 01:09 AM
I think someone used the word “retrograde” to describe Gruden’s views, and I do sort of wonder if people who know him (like Shaw) feel like the guy who wrote those emails is the same guy who they went to all those meetings with.
I am being charitable towards Gruden in writing this comment, not because I think he deserves to keep his job but because I think he deserves a chance to make his case, whatever it may be. I believe it should matter how Gruden treated his staff and players, and I find it troubling that it doesn’t seem to.
I am being charitable towards Gruden in writing this comment, not because I think he deserves to keep his job but because I think he deserves a chance to make his case, whatever it may be. I believe it should matter how Gruden treated his staff and players, and I find it troubling that it doesn’t seem to.
I think someone used the word “retrograde” to describe Gruden’s views, and I do sort of wonder if people who know him (like Shaw) feel like the guy who wrote those emails is the same guy who they went to all those meetings with.
I am being charitable towards Gruden in writing this comment, not because I think he deserves to keep his job but because I think he deserves a chance to make his case, whatever it may be. I believe it should matter how Gruden treated his staff and players, and I find it troubling that it doesn’t seem to.
I am being charitable towards Gruden in writing this comment, not because I think he deserves to keep his job but because I think he deserves a chance to make his case, whatever it may be. I believe it should matter how Gruden treated his staff and players, and I find it troubling that it doesn’t seem to.
10-12-2021, 06:49 AM
(This post was last modified: 10-12-2021, 06:51 AM by OutsiderFan.)
Character is revealed when you act when you think nobody is watching. Leadership requires character and football teams require leaders. Gruden has no character. That's what his emails reveal.
He doesn't need to tell his side of the story. There is only one side that matters. And FFS, Gruden resigned with a statement that took responsibility for his actions because he knew he can't have a leadership position when everyone knows he lacks character.
There is however, a much larger question that needs to be delved into. Why were Gruden's emails leaked to reporters? How is it an investigation into one NFL franchise (Washington) and its owner (Dan Snyder) resulted in the Head Coach of another being sacked? Is former Washington and Raiders exec Bruce Allen being setup as a fall guy along with Gruden so an owner can skate on his franchise's many documented transgressions, so the NFL doesn't have to face one of its owners being exposed?
The investigation that unearthed Gruden's emails scooped up 650,000 others. Are Gruden and Allen emails the only ones that expose heinous behavior in Dan Snyder's NFL franchise? What about between other NFL people?
He doesn't need to tell his side of the story. There is only one side that matters. And FFS, Gruden resigned with a statement that took responsibility for his actions because he knew he can't have a leadership position when everyone knows he lacks character.
There is however, a much larger question that needs to be delved into. Why were Gruden's emails leaked to reporters? How is it an investigation into one NFL franchise (Washington) and its owner (Dan Snyder) resulted in the Head Coach of another being sacked? Is former Washington and Raiders exec Bruce Allen being setup as a fall guy along with Gruden so an owner can skate on his franchise's many documented transgressions, so the NFL doesn't have to face one of its owners being exposed?
The investigation that unearthed Gruden's emails scooped up 650,000 others. Are Gruden and Allen emails the only ones that expose heinous behavior in Dan Snyder's NFL franchise? What about between other NFL people?
(This post was last modified: 10-12-2021, 06:51 AM by OutsiderFan.)
Character is revealed when you act when you think nobody is watching. Leadership requires character and football teams require leaders. Gruden has no character. That's what his emails reveal.
He doesn't need to tell his side of the story. There is only one side that matters. And FFS, Gruden resigned with a statement that took responsibility for his actions because he knew he can't have a leadership position when everyone knows he lacks character.
There is however, a much larger question that needs to be delved into. Why were Gruden's emails leaked to reporters? How is it an investigation into one NFL franchise (Washington) and its owner (Dan Snyder) resulted in the Head Coach of another being sacked? Is former Washington and Raiders exec Bruce Allen being setup as a fall guy along with Gruden so an owner can skate on his franchise's many documented transgressions, so the NFL doesn't have to face one of its owners being exposed?
The investigation that unearthed Gruden's emails scooped up 650,000 others. Are Gruden and Allen emails the only ones that expose heinous behavior in Dan Snyder's NFL franchise? What about between other NFL people?
He doesn't need to tell his side of the story. There is only one side that matters. And FFS, Gruden resigned with a statement that took responsibility for his actions because he knew he can't have a leadership position when everyone knows he lacks character.
There is however, a much larger question that needs to be delved into. Why were Gruden's emails leaked to reporters? How is it an investigation into one NFL franchise (Washington) and its owner (Dan Snyder) resulted in the Head Coach of another being sacked? Is former Washington and Raiders exec Bruce Allen being setup as a fall guy along with Gruden so an owner can skate on his franchise's many documented transgressions, so the NFL doesn't have to face one of its owners being exposed?
The investigation that unearthed Gruden's emails scooped up 650,000 others. Are Gruden and Allen emails the only ones that expose heinous behavior in Dan Snyder's NFL franchise? What about between other NFL people?
10-12-2021, 08:03 AM
I had postulated that an ally of DeMaurice Smith leaked the first Gruden email to build sympathy for Smith in Smith’s quest to retain his position with the NFLPA. Your theory seems plausible as well. I’m sure there are other reasonable theories. I’m not sure we’ll ever learn the definitive answer.
When I registered here in 2014, TrumpCard seemed like an apolitical user ID...
I had postulated that an ally of DeMaurice Smith leaked the first Gruden email to build sympathy for Smith in Smith’s quest to retain his position with the NFLPA. Your theory seems plausible as well. I’m sure there are other reasonable theories. I’m not sure we’ll ever learn the definitive answer.
When I registered here in 2014, TrumpCard seemed like an apolitical user ID...
10-12-2021, 08:07 AM
Meet the next Alabama offensive coordinator, John Gruden. Or do only former USC guys go there?
BC
BC
Meet the next Alabama offensive coordinator, John Gruden. Or do only former USC guys go there?
BC
BC
10-12-2021, 08:47 AM
The only landing spot is the SEC. Fans would still attend if Jack the Ripper or Ted Bundy was OC.
10-12-2021, 09:56 AM
The NFL is so hypocritical. The same league that professes to condemn comments like Gruden's, allows rappers known for their misogynistic and anti-gay lyrics to perform at Super Bowls. That's only the tip of the league's double standards. I'm certain that there's much worse things heard in NFL locker rooms just about every day.
This kind of BS is just one of the reasons I stopped watching the NFL years ago.
This kind of BS is just one of the reasons I stopped watching the NFL years ago.
The NFL is so hypocritical. The same league that professes to condemn comments like Gruden's, allows rappers known for their misogynistic and anti-gay lyrics to perform at Super Bowls. That's only the tip of the league's double standards. I'm certain that there's much worse things heard in NFL locker rooms just about every day.
This kind of BS is just one of the reasons I stopped watching the NFL years ago.
This kind of BS is just one of the reasons I stopped watching the NFL years ago.
10-12-2021, 10:26 AM
While Gruden did some at best inappropriate things, I wouldn't be surprised if both he and the Raiders decided this was a good place to end his tenure for football reasons as well. He resigned, so they don't have to pay him. Probably they wanted him out anyway, and no way were they going out on a limb for him at this point. Wouldn't have happend if the emails hadn't surfaced, but since they did, get rid of him now.
While Gruden did some at best inappropriate things, I wouldn't be surprised if both he and the Raiders decided this was a good place to end his tenure for football reasons as well. He resigned, so they don't have to pay him. Probably they wanted him out anyway, and no way were they going out on a limb for him at this point. Wouldn't have happend if the emails hadn't surfaced, but since they did, get rid of him now.
10-12-2021, 10:57 AM
(10-12-2021, 10:26 AM)Goose Wrote: While Gruden did some at best inappropriate things, I wouldn't be surprised if both he and the Raiders decided this was a good place to end his tenure for football reasons as well. He resigned, so they don't have to pay him. Probably they wanted him out anyway, and no way were they going out on a limb for him at this point. Wouldn't have happend if the emails hadn't surfaced, but since they did, get rid of him now.
well that would get the Raiders out of the last 6+ years of his 10 year $100m contract without having to pay the remaining amount since he resigned (well unless there was a negotiated settlement to encourage the resignation)...
Eric
"the older we get the better we were"
(10-12-2021, 10:26 AM)Goose Wrote: While Gruden did some at best inappropriate things, I wouldn't be surprised if both he and the Raiders decided this was a good place to end his tenure for football reasons as well. He resigned, so they don't have to pay him. Probably they wanted him out anyway, and no way were they going out on a limb for him at this point. Wouldn't have happend if the emails hadn't surfaced, but since they did, get rid of him now.
well that would get the Raiders out of the last 6+ years of his 10 year $100m contract without having to pay the remaining amount since he resigned (well unless there was a negotiated settlement to encourage the resignation)...
Eric
"the older we get the better we were"
10-12-2021, 11:17 AM
(10-12-2021, 10:57 AM)82lsju Wrote:I don't know if they negotiated anything, but if they did I would bet it was at a heavy discount, like pay him for the rest of this year.(10-12-2021, 10:26 AM)Goose Wrote: While Gruden did some at best inappropriate things, I wouldn't be surprised if both he and the Raiders decided this was a good place to end his tenure for football reasons as well. He resigned, so they don't have to pay him. Probably they wanted him out anyway, and no way were they going out on a limb for him at this point. Wouldn't have happend if the emails hadn't surfaced, but since they did, get rid of him now.
well that would get the Raiders out of the last 6+ years of his 10 year $100m contract without having to pay the remaining amount since he resigned (well unless there was a negotiated settlement to encourage the resignation)...
(10-12-2021, 10:57 AM)82lsju Wrote:I don't know if they negotiated anything, but if they did I would bet it was at a heavy discount, like pay him for the rest of this year.(10-12-2021, 10:26 AM)Goose Wrote: While Gruden did some at best inappropriate things, I wouldn't be surprised if both he and the Raiders decided this was a good place to end his tenure for football reasons as well. He resigned, so they don't have to pay him. Probably they wanted him out anyway, and no way were they going out on a limb for him at this point. Wouldn't have happend if the emails hadn't surfaced, but since they did, get rid of him now.
well that would get the Raiders out of the last 6+ years of his 10 year $100m contract without having to pay the remaining amount since he resigned (well unless there was a negotiated settlement to encourage the resignation)...
10-12-2021, 12:52 PM
(10-12-2021, 06:49 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Character is revealed when you act when you think nobody is watching. Leadership requires character and football teams require leaders. Gruden has no character. That's what his emails reveal.
He doesn't need to tell his side of the story. There is only one side that matters. And FFS, Gruden resigned with a statement that took responsibility for his actions because he knew he can't have a leadership position when everyone knows he lacks character.
There is however, a much larger question that needs to be delved into. Why were Gruden's emails leaked to reporters? How is it an investigation into one NFL franchise (Washington) and its owner (Dan Snyder) resulted in the Head Coach of another being sacked? Is former Washington and Raiders exec Bruce Allen being setup as a fall guy along with Gruden so an owner can skate on his franchise's many documented transgressions, so the NFL doesn't have to face one of its owners being exposed?
The investigation that unearthed Gruden's emails scooped up 650,000 others. Are Gruden and Allen emails the only ones that expose heinous behavior in Dan Snyder's NFL franchise? What about between other NFL people?
No tears for Gruden - doubt he is a racist but also do not doubt that he has dubious character traits.
And no tears also because Gruden has been paid a ton by the Raiders (for mediocre results) and undoubtedly negotiated an exit amount with Davis.
Your larger questions are indeed intriguing.
And yes, double standards abound.
What would be interesting to see: a Venn Diagram showing (a) set of people who have no objection to the Gruden email leaks, and (b) set of people who have no objection to the H. Clinton email leaks. Do you think there is a lot of overlap there?
(10-12-2021, 06:49 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Character is revealed when you act when you think nobody is watching. Leadership requires character and football teams require leaders. Gruden has no character. That's what his emails reveal.
He doesn't need to tell his side of the story. There is only one side that matters. And FFS, Gruden resigned with a statement that took responsibility for his actions because he knew he can't have a leadership position when everyone knows he lacks character.
There is however, a much larger question that needs to be delved into. Why were Gruden's emails leaked to reporters? How is it an investigation into one NFL franchise (Washington) and its owner (Dan Snyder) resulted in the Head Coach of another being sacked? Is former Washington and Raiders exec Bruce Allen being setup as a fall guy along with Gruden so an owner can skate on his franchise's many documented transgressions, so the NFL doesn't have to face one of its owners being exposed?
The investigation that unearthed Gruden's emails scooped up 650,000 others. Are Gruden and Allen emails the only ones that expose heinous behavior in Dan Snyder's NFL franchise? What about between other NFL people?
No tears for Gruden - doubt he is a racist but also do not doubt that he has dubious character traits.
And no tears also because Gruden has been paid a ton by the Raiders (for mediocre results) and undoubtedly negotiated an exit amount with Davis.
Your larger questions are indeed intriguing.
And yes, double standards abound.
What would be interesting to see: a Venn Diagram showing (a) set of people who have no objection to the Gruden email leaks, and (b) set of people who have no objection to the H. Clinton email leaks. Do you think there is a lot of overlap there?
10-12-2021, 01:32 PM
Michael Kay on YES Network just made me realize something I wasn't thinking when I made my first post in this thread. It's entirely possible Roger Goodell found out the sh*t Gruden was talking about him and his policies behind his back, and made sure Gruden was shiv'd.
There is a LOT more to this WFT investigation and the 650,000 emails should be made available to the public, for several reasons.
1. There's 650,000 emails and only a few of Jon Gruden's - sent from outside the Washington team - are somehow incriminating? Please.
2. How are we as a public suppose to trust that there aren't other powerful figures in the sport who might be similarly exposed and are purposely being protected?
3. Are we going to get more leaks of these emails over time? Who knows?
4. I just heard there won't be any more leaks about the WFT investigation.
Translation: the NFL doesn't want the public knowing how terrible the people running the league are. But refusing to be transparent forms my perception that they in fact are.
Someone wanted Gruden out and my money is on the NFL Commissioner. What he said was awful, but I hope he sues someone and gets discovery on the 650,000 emails so he can expose others and the NFL's hypocritical duplicity.
There is a LOT more to this WFT investigation and the 650,000 emails should be made available to the public, for several reasons.
1. There's 650,000 emails and only a few of Jon Gruden's - sent from outside the Washington team - are somehow incriminating? Please.
2. How are we as a public suppose to trust that there aren't other powerful figures in the sport who might be similarly exposed and are purposely being protected?
3. Are we going to get more leaks of these emails over time? Who knows?
4. I just heard there won't be any more leaks about the WFT investigation.
Translation: the NFL doesn't want the public knowing how terrible the people running the league are. But refusing to be transparent forms my perception that they in fact are.
Someone wanted Gruden out and my money is on the NFL Commissioner. What he said was awful, but I hope he sues someone and gets discovery on the 650,000 emails so he can expose others and the NFL's hypocritical duplicity.
Michael Kay on YES Network just made me realize something I wasn't thinking when I made my first post in this thread. It's entirely possible Roger Goodell found out the sh*t Gruden was talking about him and his policies behind his back, and made sure Gruden was shiv'd.
There is a LOT more to this WFT investigation and the 650,000 emails should be made available to the public, for several reasons.
1. There's 650,000 emails and only a few of Jon Gruden's - sent from outside the Washington team - are somehow incriminating? Please.
2. How are we as a public suppose to trust that there aren't other powerful figures in the sport who might be similarly exposed and are purposely being protected?
3. Are we going to get more leaks of these emails over time? Who knows?
4. I just heard there won't be any more leaks about the WFT investigation.
Translation: the NFL doesn't want the public knowing how terrible the people running the league are. But refusing to be transparent forms my perception that they in fact are.
Someone wanted Gruden out and my money is on the NFL Commissioner. What he said was awful, but I hope he sues someone and gets discovery on the 650,000 emails so he can expose others and the NFL's hypocritical duplicity.
There is a LOT more to this WFT investigation and the 650,000 emails should be made available to the public, for several reasons.
1. There's 650,000 emails and only a few of Jon Gruden's - sent from outside the Washington team - are somehow incriminating? Please.
2. How are we as a public suppose to trust that there aren't other powerful figures in the sport who might be similarly exposed and are purposely being protected?
3. Are we going to get more leaks of these emails over time? Who knows?
4. I just heard there won't be any more leaks about the WFT investigation.
Translation: the NFL doesn't want the public knowing how terrible the people running the league are. But refusing to be transparent forms my perception that they in fact are.
Someone wanted Gruden out and my money is on the NFL Commissioner. What he said was awful, but I hope he sues someone and gets discovery on the 650,000 emails so he can expose others and the NFL's hypocritical duplicity.
10-12-2021, 02:06 PM
(10-12-2021, 01:32 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: ....What he said was awful, but I hope he sues someone and gets discovery on the 650,000 emails so he can expose others and the NFL's hypocritical duplicity.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/3238...estigation
(10-12-2021, 01:32 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: ....What he said was awful, but I hope he sues someone and gets discovery on the 650,000 emails so he can expose others and the NFL's hypocritical duplicity.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/3238...estigation
10-13-2021, 08:23 AM
Shaw did speak briefly about Gruden at yesterday's presser before saying he wouldn't be taking any questions on the topic:
He said a bit more about having concern for the Raiders coaching staff. Seems like an appropriate statement from Shaw, acknowledging that Gruden has helped him without defending the guy's general character.
I'm sure some will wish that Shaw had more forcefully condemned Gruden's use of a racist trope, in particular. But given their history, I don't think anyone should be bothered by Shaw saying the minimum here.
Quote:last statement i'll make
um just to just address the uh the john
gruden situation
um i'm not going to take any questions
about it
yes john and i are very friends john is
is is probably more responsible than
anybody
um
outside of my parents
uh for me being where i am right now in
my career
i'm so grateful to him um for his
his his help
his his uh advising advisement
throughout the years
um
both when i worked for them and and and
since then
um don't condone anything
negative uh in any of those emails
um i feel awful for those people that
were
you know
verbally uh
mentioned
or
involved in those emails
don't condone any of that
it's a terrible situation for everyone
He said a bit more about having concern for the Raiders coaching staff. Seems like an appropriate statement from Shaw, acknowledging that Gruden has helped him without defending the guy's general character.
I'm sure some will wish that Shaw had more forcefully condemned Gruden's use of a racist trope, in particular. But given their history, I don't think anyone should be bothered by Shaw saying the minimum here.
Shaw did speak briefly about Gruden at yesterday's presser before saying he wouldn't be taking any questions on the topic:
He said a bit more about having concern for the Raiders coaching staff. Seems like an appropriate statement from Shaw, acknowledging that Gruden has helped him without defending the guy's general character.
I'm sure some will wish that Shaw had more forcefully condemned Gruden's use of a racist trope, in particular. But given their history, I don't think anyone should be bothered by Shaw saying the minimum here.
Quote:last statement i'll make
um just to just address the uh the john
gruden situation
um i'm not going to take any questions
about it
yes john and i are very friends john is
is is probably more responsible than
anybody
um
outside of my parents
uh for me being where i am right now in
my career
i'm so grateful to him um for his
his his help
his his uh advising advisement
throughout the years
um
both when i worked for them and and and
since then
um don't condone anything
negative uh in any of those emails
um i feel awful for those people that
were
you know
verbally uh
mentioned
or
involved in those emails
don't condone any of that
it's a terrible situation for everyone
He said a bit more about having concern for the Raiders coaching staff. Seems like an appropriate statement from Shaw, acknowledging that Gruden has helped him without defending the guy's general character.
I'm sure some will wish that Shaw had more forcefully condemned Gruden's use of a racist trope, in particular. But given their history, I don't think anyone should be bothered by Shaw saying the minimum here.
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