[gailtate]

https://apnews.com/article/college-footb...0d3ba965d5

"The idea that he was ever doubted seems almost silly."

[gailtate]

https://apnews.com/article/college-footb...0d3ba965d5

"The idea that he was ever doubted seems almost silly."

[teejers1]

https://apnews.com/article/college-footb...0d3ba965d5

"The idea that he was ever doubted seems almost silly."

Reasonably fair/accurate article.  
Only one quibble - Stanford football had hit "rock bottom" at that time, when Harbs was hired.  I'd argue a new bottom has been established, with next season "in contention."  We shall see . . .

[teejers1]

https://apnews.com/article/college-footb...0d3ba965d5

"The idea that he was ever doubted seems almost silly."

Reasonably fair/accurate article.  
Only one quibble - Stanford football had hit "rock bottom" at that time, when Harbs was hired.  I'd argue a new bottom has been established, with next season "in contention."  We shall see . . .

[lex24]

https://apnews.com/article/college-footb...0d3ba965d5

"The idea that he was ever doubted seems almost silly."

Reasonably fair/accurate article.  
Only one quibble - Stanford football had hit "rock bottom" at that time, when Harbs was hired.  I'd argue a new bottom has been established, with next season "in contention."  We shall see . . .

Fair.  But one glaring factual error (lazy reporting) - Jack Harbaugh did not coach John Elway at Stanford.

[lex24]

https://apnews.com/article/college-footb...0d3ba965d5

"The idea that he was ever doubted seems almost silly."

Reasonably fair/accurate article.  
Only one quibble - Stanford football had hit "rock bottom" at that time, when Harbs was hired.  I'd argue a new bottom has been established, with next season "in contention."  We shall see . . .

Fair.  But one glaring factual error (lazy reporting) - Jack Harbaugh did not coach John Elway at Stanford.

[gailtate]

https://apnews.com/article/college-footb...0d3ba965d5

"The idea that he was ever doubted seems almost silly."

Reasonably fair/accurate article.  
Only one quibble - Stanford football had hit "rock bottom" at that time, when Harbs was hired.  I'd argue a new bottom has been established, with next season "in contention."  We shall see . . .

Fair.  But one glaring factual error (lazy reporting) - Jack Harbaugh did not coach John Elway at Stanford.

Poetic license. He was Paul Wiggin's DC in 1980-81. In reality, John Elway's "coach" was his dad. I doubt that anyone on Wiggin's staff, including Jim Fassel, could ever help him.

[gailtate]

https://apnews.com/article/college-footb...0d3ba965d5

"The idea that he was ever doubted seems almost silly."

Reasonably fair/accurate article.  
Only one quibble - Stanford football had hit "rock bottom" at that time, when Harbs was hired.  I'd argue a new bottom has been established, with next season "in contention."  We shall see . . .

Fair.  But one glaring factual error (lazy reporting) - Jack Harbaugh did not coach John Elway at Stanford.

Poetic license. He was Paul Wiggin's DC in 1980-81. In reality, John Elway's "coach" was his dad. I doubt that anyone on Wiggin's staff, including Jim Fassel, could ever help him.

[JohnR34231]

https://apnews.com/article/college-footb...0d3ba965d5

"The idea that he was ever doubted seems almost silly."

Reasonably fair/accurate article.  
Only one quibble - Stanford football had hit "rock bottom" at that time, when Harbs was hired.  I'd argue a new bottom has been established, with next season "in contention."  We shall see . . .

Fair.  But one glaring factual error (lazy reporting) - Jack Harbaugh did not coach John Elway at Stanford.

Poetic license. He was Paul Wiggin's DC in 1980-81. In reality, John Elway's "coach" was his dad. I doubt that anyone on Wiggin's staff, including Jim Fassel, could ever help him.

I remember when the Jack Elway coached SJS team whipped the John Elway led Cardinal 28-6 in 1981. Jack supposedly just tore Wiggin a new one for doing such a lousy job of coaching his son.

[JohnR34231]

https://apnews.com/article/college-footb...0d3ba965d5

"The idea that he was ever doubted seems almost silly."

Reasonably fair/accurate article.  
Only one quibble - Stanford football had hit "rock bottom" at that time, when Harbs was hired.  I'd argue a new bottom has been established, with next season "in contention."  We shall see . . .

Fair.  But one glaring factual error (lazy reporting) - Jack Harbaugh did not coach John Elway at Stanford.

Poetic license. He was Paul Wiggin's DC in 1980-81. In reality, John Elway's "coach" was his dad. I doubt that anyone on Wiggin's staff, including Jim Fassel, could ever help him.

I remember when the Jack Elway coached SJS team whipped the John Elway led Cardinal 28-6 in 1981. Jack supposedly just tore Wiggin a new one for doing such a lousy job of coaching his son.

[lex24]

https://apnews.com/article/college-footb...0d3ba965d5

"The idea that he was ever doubted seems almost silly."

Reasonably fair/accurate article.  
Only one quibble - Stanford football had hit "rock bottom" at that time, when Harbs was hired.  I'd argue a new bottom has been established, with next season "in contention."  We shall see . . .

Fair.  But one glaring factual error (lazy reporting) - Jack Harbaugh did not coach John Elway at Stanford.

Poetic license. He was Paul Wiggin's DC in 1980-81. In reality, John Elway's "coach" was his dad. I doubt that anyone on Wiggin's staff, including Jim Fassel, could ever help him.

I remember when the Jack Elway coached SJS team whipped the John Elway led Cardinal 28-6 in 1981. Jack supposedly just tore Wiggin a new one for doing such a lousy job of coaching his son.

John was hurt.  Bad ankle.  No mobility.  SJS blitzed like mad and beat him to a pulp.  Jack was ticked.  His DC had told him midweek what they planned to do defensively.  The story goes that Jack said fine, but I don’t want to hear about it. Or something like that.

Can’t imagine what it’s like to coach a team that is physically battering your son. Had to take most of the joy out of a big win.

I also think that game was a key factor in Stanford hiring Jack. I wish they had done it while John was there…..

[lex24]

https://apnews.com/article/college-footb...0d3ba965d5

"The idea that he was ever doubted seems almost silly."

Reasonably fair/accurate article.  
Only one quibble - Stanford football had hit "rock bottom" at that time, when Harbs was hired.  I'd argue a new bottom has been established, with next season "in contention."  We shall see . . .

Fair.  But one glaring factual error (lazy reporting) - Jack Harbaugh did not coach John Elway at Stanford.

Poetic license. He was Paul Wiggin's DC in 1980-81. In reality, John Elway's "coach" was his dad. I doubt that anyone on Wiggin's staff, including Jim Fassel, could ever help him.

I remember when the Jack Elway coached SJS team whipped the John Elway led Cardinal 28-6 in 1981. Jack supposedly just tore Wiggin a new one for doing such a lousy job of coaching his son.

John was hurt.  Bad ankle.  No mobility.  SJS blitzed like mad and beat him to a pulp.  Jack was ticked.  His DC had told him midweek what they planned to do defensively.  The story goes that Jack said fine, but I don’t want to hear about it. Or something like that.

Can’t imagine what it’s like to coach a team that is physically battering your son. Had to take most of the joy out of a big win.

I also think that game was a key factor in Stanford hiring Jack. I wish they had done it while John was there…..

[OutsiderFan]

If anyone has any idea, when John Elway was recruited from High School, how would he have been ranked if today's prospect scouting and recruit ranking systems were used?  Would he have been a 5 star or a 4 star?  

I assume he had offers from all over the country, but I don't know that for sure and am curious to know what his recruitment was like.

[OutsiderFan]

If anyone has any idea, when John Elway was recruited from High School, how would he have been ranked if today's prospect scouting and recruit ranking systems were used?  Would he have been a 5 star or a 4 star?  

I assume he had offers from all over the country, but I don't know that for sure and am curious to know what his recruitment was like.

[gailtate]

If anyone has any idea, when John Elway was recruited from High School, how would he have been ranked if today's prospect scouting and recruit ranking systems were used?  Would he have been a 5 star or a 4 star?  

I assume he had offers from all over the country, but I don't know that for sure and am curious to know what his recruitment was like.

USC really wanted him and he almost went there. Can you imagine a backfield of Elway and Marcus Allen???

[gailtate]

If anyone has any idea, when John Elway was recruited from High School, how would he have been ranked if today's prospect scouting and recruit ranking systems were used?  Would he have been a 5 star or a 4 star?  

I assume he had offers from all over the country, but I don't know that for sure and am curious to know what his recruitment was like.

USC really wanted him and he almost went there. Can you imagine a backfield of Elway and Marcus Allen???

[JohnR34231]

If anyone has any idea, when John Elway was recruited from High School, how would he have been ranked if today's prospect scouting and recruit ranking systems were used?  Would he have been a 5 star or a 4 star?  

I assume he had offers from all over the country, but I don't know that for sure and am curious to know what his recruitment was like.

Back then there weren't a lot of recruiting analysts but there was a guy named Joe Terranova who put out an annual brochure on recruiting.
IIRC, he had John Elway as the #1 prospect in the nation.
I think Elway would definitely have been a 5 star.

---

Reasonably fair/accurate article.  
Only one quibble - Stanford football had hit "rock bottom" at that time, when Harbs was hired.  I'd argue a new bottom has been established, with next season "in contention."  We shall see . . .

Fair.  But one glaring factual error (lazy reporting) - Jack Harbaugh did not coach John Elway at Stanford.

Poetic license. He was Paul Wiggin's DC in 1980-81. In reality, John Elway's "coach" was his dad. I doubt that anyone on Wiggin's staff, including Jim Fassel, could ever help him.

I remember when the Jack Elway coached SJS team whipped the John Elway led Cardinal 28-6 in 1981. Jack supposedly just tore Wiggin a new one for doing such a lousy job of coaching his son.

John was hurt.  Bad ankle.  No mobility.  SJS blitzed like mad and beat him to a pulp.  Jack was ticked.  His DC had told him midweek what they planned to do defensively.  The story goes that Jack said fine, but I don’t want to hear about it. Or something like that.

Can’t imagine what it’s like to coach a team that is physically battering your son. Had to take most of the joy out of a big win.

I also think that game was a key factor in Stanford hiring Jack. I wish they had done it while John was there…..

The running game couldn't do anything either. I remember once Darrin Nelson getting the ball and getting absolutely stuffed. The crowd started boong.

[JohnR34231]

If anyone has any idea, when John Elway was recruited from High School, how would he have been ranked if today's prospect scouting and recruit ranking systems were used?  Would he have been a 5 star or a 4 star?  

I assume he had offers from all over the country, but I don't know that for sure and am curious to know what his recruitment was like.

Back then there weren't a lot of recruiting analysts but there was a guy named Joe Terranova who put out an annual brochure on recruiting.
IIRC, he had John Elway as the #1 prospect in the nation.
I think Elway would definitely have been a 5 star.

---

Reasonably fair/accurate article.  
Only one quibble - Stanford football had hit "rock bottom" at that time, when Harbs was hired.  I'd argue a new bottom has been established, with next season "in contention."  We shall see . . .

Fair.  But one glaring factual error (lazy reporting) - Jack Harbaugh did not coach John Elway at Stanford.

Poetic license. He was Paul Wiggin's DC in 1980-81. In reality, John Elway's "coach" was his dad. I doubt that anyone on Wiggin's staff, including Jim Fassel, could ever help him.

I remember when the Jack Elway coached SJS team whipped the John Elway led Cardinal 28-6 in 1981. Jack supposedly just tore Wiggin a new one for doing such a lousy job of coaching his son.

John was hurt.  Bad ankle.  No mobility.  SJS blitzed like mad and beat him to a pulp.  Jack was ticked.  His DC had told him midweek what they planned to do defensively.  The story goes that Jack said fine, but I don’t want to hear about it. Or something like that.

Can’t imagine what it’s like to coach a team that is physically battering your son. Had to take most of the joy out of a big win.

I also think that game was a key factor in Stanford hiring Jack. I wish they had done it while John was there…..

The running game couldn't do anything either. I remember once Darrin Nelson getting the ball and getting absolutely stuffed. The crowd started boong.

[DC 86]

In reality, John Elway's "coach" was his dad. I doubt that anyone on Wiggin's staff, including Jim Fassel, could ever help him.

Elway lobbied for Fassel to be hired as the Broncos OC and always credited him as a major influence on his development, so I'm pretty sure that Elway felt that Fassel had helped him a lot at Stanford.

Fassel was also his presenter when Elway was inducted into the Stanford Athletics Hall of Fame.

[DC 86]

In reality, John Elway's "coach" was his dad. I doubt that anyone on Wiggin's staff, including Jim Fassel, could ever help him.

Elway lobbied for Fassel to be hired as the Broncos OC and always credited him as a major influence on his development, so I'm pretty sure that Elway felt that Fassel had helped him a lot at Stanford.

Fassel was also his presenter when Elway was inducted into the Stanford Athletics Hall of Fame.

[cardcrimson]

If anyone has any idea, when John Elway was recruited from High School, how would he have been ranked if today's prospect scouting and recruit ranking systems were used?  Would he have been a 5 star or a 4 star?  

I assume he had offers from all over the country, but I don't know that for sure and am curious to know what his recruitment was like.

Seriously? He was the top recruit in the country, at least that was my recollection from the Sporting Green and the buzz around the class of '83.

---

Reasonably fair/accurate article.  
Only one quibble - Stanford football had hit "rock bottom" at that time, when Harbs was hired.  I'd argue a new bottom has been established, with next season "in contention."  We shall see . . .

Fair.  But one glaring factual error (lazy reporting) - Jack Harbaugh did not coach John Elway at Stanford.

Poetic license. He was Paul Wiggin's DC in 1980-81. In reality, John Elway's "coach" was his dad. I doubt that anyone on Wiggin's staff, including Jim Fassel, could ever help him.

I remember when the Jack Elway coached SJS team whipped the John Elway led Cardinal 28-6 in 1981. Jack supposedly just tore Wiggin a new one for doing such a lousy job of coaching his son.

John was hurt.  Bad ankle.  No mobility.  SJS blitzed like mad and beat him to a pulp.  Jack was ticked.  His DC had told him midweek what they planned to do defensively.  The story goes that Jack said fine, but I don’t want to hear about it. Or something like that.

Can’t imagine what it’s like to coach a team that is physically battering your son. Had to take most of the joy out of a big win.

I also think that game was a key factor in Stanford hiring Jack. I wish they had done it while John was there…..

Remember watching Jack on the sidelines that game. He was not just ticked. He was furious, demonstrably so. John was hobbling so badly, I remember thinking Jack was about to pull John from the game.

[cardcrimson]

If anyone has any idea, when John Elway was recruited from High School, how would he have been ranked if today's prospect scouting and recruit ranking systems were used?  Would he have been a 5 star or a 4 star?  

I assume he had offers from all over the country, but I don't know that for sure and am curious to know what his recruitment was like.

Seriously? He was the top recruit in the country, at least that was my recollection from the Sporting Green and the buzz around the class of '83.

---

Reasonably fair/accurate article.  
Only one quibble - Stanford football had hit "rock bottom" at that time, when Harbs was hired.  I'd argue a new bottom has been established, with next season "in contention."  We shall see . . .

Fair.  But one glaring factual error (lazy reporting) - Jack Harbaugh did not coach John Elway at Stanford.

Poetic license. He was Paul Wiggin's DC in 1980-81. In reality, John Elway's "coach" was his dad. I doubt that anyone on Wiggin's staff, including Jim Fassel, could ever help him.

I remember when the Jack Elway coached SJS team whipped the John Elway led Cardinal 28-6 in 1981. Jack supposedly just tore Wiggin a new one for doing such a lousy job of coaching his son.

John was hurt.  Bad ankle.  No mobility.  SJS blitzed like mad and beat him to a pulp.  Jack was ticked.  His DC had told him midweek what they planned to do defensively.  The story goes that Jack said fine, but I don’t want to hear about it. Or something like that.

Can’t imagine what it’s like to coach a team that is physically battering your son. Had to take most of the joy out of a big win.

I also think that game was a key factor in Stanford hiring Jack. I wish they had done it while John was there…..

Remember watching Jack on the sidelines that game. He was not just ticked. He was furious, demonstrably so. John was hobbling so badly, I remember thinking Jack was about to pull John from the game.

[DC 86]

If anyone has any idea, when John Elway was recruited from High School, how would he have been ranked if today's prospect scouting and recruit ranking systems were used?  Would he have been a 5 star or a 4 star?  

He was the top recruit in the country. He only played half a season as a senior in high school but he was still selected as Parade Magazine's first team All America (Dan Marino was second team).

[DC 86]

If anyone has any idea, when John Elway was recruited from High School, how would he have been ranked if today's prospect scouting and recruit ranking systems were used?  Would he have been a 5 star or a 4 star?  

He was the top recruit in the country. He only played half a season as a senior in high school but he was still selected as Parade Magazine's first team All America (Dan Marino was second team).

[lex24]

In reality, John Elway's "coach" was his dad. I doubt that anyone on Wiggin's staff, including Jim Fassel, could ever help him.

Elway lobbied for Fassel to be hired as the Broncos OC and always credited him as a major influence on his development, so I'm pretty sure that Elway felt that Fassel had helped him a lot at Stanford.

Fassel was also his presenter when Elway was inducted into the Stanford Athletics Hall of Fame.

I was there that night.  I remember Fassel telling the story of Elway throwing kickoffs for the return team. They were at Fort Dohower.   First one went to about the 5.  They asked him to throw it deeper.  Next one went to about goal line.  They asked him to throw it deeper.  Next one sailed through the goalpost and into the parking lot.  Fassel asked: “is that  deep enough?” Maybe apocryphal.  But a good story.

---

If anyone has any idea, when John Elway was recruited from High School, how would he have been ranked if today's prospect scouting and recruit ranking systems were used?  Would he have been a 5 star or a 4 star?  

He was the top recruit in the country. He only played half a season as a senior in high school but he was still selected as Parade Magazine's first team All America (Dan Marino was second team).

Yep.  John Robinson coached him in an all star game.  Said he was the best high school QB he’d ever seen.  He was far from alone in that opinion.  Heck, one coach that recruited him said he slept with his mother, and still couldn’t get him.:).

---

If anyone has any idea, when John Elway was recruited from High School, how would he have been ranked if today's prospect scouting and recruit ranking systems were used?  Would he have been a 5 star or a 4 star?  

I assume he had offers from all over the country, but I don't know that for sure and am curious to know what his recruitment was like.

USC really wanted him and he almost went there. Can you imagine a backfield of Elway and Marcus Allen???

Heck, can you imagine what Elway and Stanford could have done if Walsh stayed?  I wish…..

[lex24]

In reality, John Elway's "coach" was his dad. I doubt that anyone on Wiggin's staff, including Jim Fassel, could ever help him.

Elway lobbied for Fassel to be hired as the Broncos OC and always credited him as a major influence on his development, so I'm pretty sure that Elway felt that Fassel had helped him a lot at Stanford.

Fassel was also his presenter when Elway was inducted into the Stanford Athletics Hall of Fame.

I was there that night.  I remember Fassel telling the story of Elway throwing kickoffs for the return team. They were at Fort Dohower.   First one went to about the 5.  They asked him to throw it deeper.  Next one went to about goal line.  They asked him to throw it deeper.  Next one sailed through the goalpost and into the parking lot.  Fassel asked: “is that  deep enough?” Maybe apocryphal.  But a good story.

---

If anyone has any idea, when John Elway was recruited from High School, how would he have been ranked if today's prospect scouting and recruit ranking systems were used?  Would he have been a 5 star or a 4 star?  

He was the top recruit in the country. He only played half a season as a senior in high school but he was still selected as Parade Magazine's first team All America (Dan Marino was second team).

Yep.  John Robinson coached him in an all star game.  Said he was the best high school QB he’d ever seen.  He was far from alone in that opinion.  Heck, one coach that recruited him said he slept with his mother, and still couldn’t get him.:).

---

If anyone has any idea, when John Elway was recruited from High School, how would he have been ranked if today's prospect scouting and recruit ranking systems were used?  Would he have been a 5 star or a 4 star?  

I assume he had offers from all over the country, but I don't know that for sure and am curious to know what his recruitment was like.

USC really wanted him and he almost went there. Can you imagine a backfield of Elway and Marcus Allen???

Heck, can you imagine what Elway and Stanford could have done if Walsh stayed?  I wish…..

[gailtate]

In reality, John Elway's "coach" was his dad. I doubt that anyone on Wiggin's staff, including Jim Fassel, could ever help him.

Elway lobbied for Fassel to be hired as the Broncos OC and always credited him as a major influence on his development, so I'm pretty sure that Elway felt that Fassel had helped him a lot at Stanford.

Fassel was also his presenter when Elway was inducted into the Stanford Athletics Hall of Fame.

I was there that night.  I remember Fassel telling the story of Elway throwing kickoffs for the return team. They were at Fort Dohower.   First one went to about the 5.  They asked him to throw it deeper.  Next one went to about goal line.  They asked him to throw it deeper.  Next one sailed through the goalpost and into the parking lot.  Fassel asked: “is that  deep enough?” Maybe apocryphal.  But a good story.

---

If anyone has any idea, when John Elway was recruited from High School, how would he have been ranked if today's prospect scouting and recruit ranking systems were used?  Would he have been a 5 star or a 4 star?  

He was the top recruit in the country. He only played half a season as a senior in high school but he was still selected as Parade Magazine's first team All America (Dan Marino was second team).

Yep.  John Robinson coached him in an all star game.  Said he was the best high school QB he’d ever seen.  He was far from alone in that opinion.  Heck, one coach that recruited him said he slept with his mother, and still couldn’t get him.:).

---

If anyone has any idea, when John Elway was recruited from High School, how would he have been ranked if today's prospect scouting and recruit ranking systems were used?  Would he have been a 5 star or a 4 star?  

I assume he had offers from all over the country, but I don't know that for sure and am curious to know what his recruitment was like.

USC really wanted him and he almost went there. Can you imagine a backfield of Elway and Marcus Allen???

Heck, can you imagine what Elway and Stanford could have done if Walsh stayed?  I wish…..

And what if Walsh had recruited Allen?! One thing for certain: Even w/o MA, the losses to USC in 1980-82 would have been nail-biters, not thumpings. Maybe 2-1, Stanford. And in '79, had Walsh started Elway over Schonert (uncertain), Stanford may well have pulled it out. Woulda-coulda-shoulda, but fun to consider.

[gailtate]

In reality, John Elway's "coach" was his dad. I doubt that anyone on Wiggin's staff, including Jim Fassel, could ever help him.

Elway lobbied for Fassel to be hired as the Broncos OC and always credited him as a major influence on his development, so I'm pretty sure that Elway felt that Fassel had helped him a lot at Stanford.

Fassel was also his presenter when Elway was inducted into the Stanford Athletics Hall of Fame.

I was there that night.  I remember Fassel telling the story of Elway throwing kickoffs for the return team. They were at Fort Dohower.   First one went to about the 5.  They asked him to throw it deeper.  Next one went to about goal line.  They asked him to throw it deeper.  Next one sailed through the goalpost and into the parking lot.  Fassel asked: “is that  deep enough?” Maybe apocryphal.  But a good story.

---

If anyone has any idea, when John Elway was recruited from High School, how would he have been ranked if today's prospect scouting and recruit ranking systems were used?  Would he have been a 5 star or a 4 star?  

He was the top recruit in the country. He only played half a season as a senior in high school but he was still selected as Parade Magazine's first team All America (Dan Marino was second team).

Yep.  John Robinson coached him in an all star game.  Said he was the best high school QB he’d ever seen.  He was far from alone in that opinion.  Heck, one coach that recruited him said he slept with his mother, and still couldn’t get him.:).

---

If anyone has any idea, when John Elway was recruited from High School, how would he have been ranked if today's prospect scouting and recruit ranking systems were used?  Would he have been a 5 star or a 4 star?  

I assume he had offers from all over the country, but I don't know that for sure and am curious to know what his recruitment was like.

USC really wanted him and he almost went there. Can you imagine a backfield of Elway and Marcus Allen???

Heck, can you imagine what Elway and Stanford could have done if Walsh stayed?  I wish…..

And what if Walsh had recruited Allen?! One thing for certain: Even w/o MA, the losses to USC in 1980-82 would have been nail-biters, not thumpings. Maybe 2-1, Stanford. And in '79, had Walsh started Elway over Schonert (uncertain), Stanford may well have pulled it out. Woulda-coulda-shoulda, but fun to consider.

[Spiny_Norman]

You will find the story of the 1981 Stanford-SJSU game and so much more in Jason Cole's book from 2020, Elway: A Relentless Life. Highly recommended.

Jason was Stanford class of 84, sports editor of the Daily and then became a sportswriter. He knows his subject well.

https://www.amazon.com/Elway-Relentless-...0316455776

[Spiny_Norman]

You will find the story of the 1981 Stanford-SJSU game and so much more in Jason Cole's book from 2020, Elway: A Relentless Life. Highly recommended.

Jason was Stanford class of 84, sports editor of the Daily and then became a sportswriter. He knows his subject well.

https://www.amazon.com/Elway-Relentless-...0316455776

[JohnR34231]

In reality, John Elway's "coach" was his dad. I doubt that anyone on Wiggin's staff, including Jim Fassel, could ever help him.

Elway lobbied for Fassel to be hired as the Broncos OC and always credited him as a major influence on his development, so I'm pretty sure that Elway felt that Fassel had helped him a lot at Stanford.

Fassel was also his presenter when Elway was inducted into the Stanford Athletics Hall of Fame.

I was there that night.  I remember Fassel telling the story of Elway throwing kickoffs for the return team. They were at Fort Dohower.   First one went to about the 5.  They asked him to throw it deeper.  Next one went to about goal line.  They asked him to throw it deeper.  Next one sailed through the goalpost and into the parking lot.  Fassel asked: “is that  deep enough?” Maybe apocryphal.  But a good story.

---

If anyone has any idea, when John Elway was recruited from High School, how would he have been ranked if today's prospect scouting and recruit ranking systems were used?  Would he have been a 5 star or a 4 star?  

He was the top recruit in the country. He only played half a season as a senior in high school but he was still selected as Parade Magazine's first team All America (Dan Marino was second team).

Yep.  John Robinson coached him in an all star game.  Said he was the best high school QB he’d ever seen.  He was far from alone in that opinion.  Heck, one coach that recruited him said he slept with his mother, and still couldn’t get him.:).

---

If anyone has any idea, when John Elway was recruited from High School, how would he have been ranked if today's prospect scouting and recruit ranking systems were used?  Would he have been a 5 star or a 4 star?  

I assume he had offers from all over the country, but I don't know that for sure and am curious to know what his recruitment was like.

USC really wanted him and he almost went there. Can you imagine a backfield of Elway and Marcus Allen???

Heck, can you imagine what Elway and Stanford could have done if Walsh stayed?  I wish…..

And what if Walsh had recruited Allen?! One thing for certain: Even w/o MA, the losses to USC in 1980-82 would have been nail-biters, not thumpings. Maybe 2-1, Stanford. And in '79, had Walsh started Elway over Schonert (uncertain), Stanford may well have pulled it out. Woulda-coulda-shoulda, but fun to consider.

It would have been tough for Walsh to start Elway over Schonert in '79 because Walsh wasn't the coach. I remember Dowhower giving both Schonert and Elway playing time in 1979, but I don't remember Elway's perfomance being that superior to Schonert's. It's been awhile though.

[JohnR34231]

In reality, John Elway's "coach" was his dad. I doubt that anyone on Wiggin's staff, including Jim Fassel, could ever help him.

Elway lobbied for Fassel to be hired as the Broncos OC and always credited him as a major influence on his development, so I'm pretty sure that Elway felt that Fassel had helped him a lot at Stanford.

Fassel was also his presenter when Elway was inducted into the Stanford Athletics Hall of Fame.

I was there that night.  I remember Fassel telling the story of Elway throwing kickoffs for the return team. They were at Fort Dohower.   First one went to about the 5.  They asked him to throw it deeper.  Next one went to about goal line.  They asked him to throw it deeper.  Next one sailed through the goalpost and into the parking lot.  Fassel asked: “is that  deep enough?” Maybe apocryphal.  But a good story.

---

If anyone has any idea, when John Elway was recruited from High School, how would he have been ranked if today's prospect scouting and recruit ranking systems were used?  Would he have been a 5 star or a 4 star?  

He was the top recruit in the country. He only played half a season as a senior in high school but he was still selected as Parade Magazine's first team All America (Dan Marino was second team).

Yep.  John Robinson coached him in an all star game.  Said he was the best high school QB he’d ever seen.  He was far from alone in that opinion.  Heck, one coach that recruited him said he slept with his mother, and still couldn’t get him.:).

---

If anyone has any idea, when John Elway was recruited from High School, how would he have been ranked if today's prospect scouting and recruit ranking systems were used?  Would he have been a 5 star or a 4 star?  

I assume he had offers from all over the country, but I don't know that for sure and am curious to know what his recruitment was like.

USC really wanted him and he almost went there. Can you imagine a backfield of Elway and Marcus Allen???

Heck, can you imagine what Elway and Stanford could have done if Walsh stayed?  I wish…..

And what if Walsh had recruited Allen?! One thing for certain: Even w/o MA, the losses to USC in 1980-82 would have been nail-biters, not thumpings. Maybe 2-1, Stanford. And in '79, had Walsh started Elway over Schonert (uncertain), Stanford may well have pulled it out. Woulda-coulda-shoulda, but fun to consider.

It would have been tough for Walsh to start Elway over Schonert in '79 because Walsh wasn't the coach. I remember Dowhower giving both Schonert and Elway playing time in 1979, but I don't remember Elway's perfomance being that superior to Schonert's. It's been awhile though.

[lex24]

In reality, John Elway's "coach" was his dad. I doubt that anyone on Wiggin's staff, including Jim Fassel, could ever help him.

Elway lobbied for Fassel to be hired as the Broncos OC and always credited him as a major influence on his development, so I'm pretty sure that Elway felt that Fassel had helped him a lot at Stanford.

Fassel was also his presenter when Elway was inducted into the Stanford Athletics Hall of Fame.

I was there that night.  I remember Fassel telling the story of Elway throwing kickoffs for the return team. They were at Fort Dohower.   First one went to about the 5.  They asked him to throw it deeper.  Next one went to about goal line.  They asked him to throw it deeper.  Next one sailed through the goalpost and into the parking lot.  Fassel asked: “is that  deep enough?” Maybe apocryphal.  But a good story.

---

If anyone has any idea, when John Elway was recruited from High School, how would he have been ranked if today's prospect scouting and recruit ranking systems were used?  Would he have been a 5 star or a 4 star?  

He was the top recruit in the country. He only played half a season as a senior in high school but he was still selected as Parade Magazine's first team All America (Dan Marino was second team).

Yep.  John Robinson coached him in an all star game.  Said he was the best high school QB he’d ever seen.  He was far from alone in that opinion.  Heck, one coach that recruited him said he slept with his mother, and still couldn’t get him.:).

---

If anyone has any idea, when John Elway was recruited from High School, how would he have been ranked if today's prospect scouting and recruit ranking systems were used?  Would he have been a 5 star or a 4 star?  

I assume he had offers from all over the country, but I don't know that for sure and am curious to know what his recruitment was like.

USC really wanted him and he almost went there. Can you imagine a backfield of Elway and Marcus Allen???

Heck, can you imagine what Elway and Stanford could have done if Walsh stayed?  I wish…..

And what if Walsh had recruited Allen?! One thing for certain: Even w/o MA, the losses to USC in 1980-82 would have been nail-biters, not thumpings. Maybe 2-1, Stanford. And in '79, had Walsh started Elway over Schonert (uncertain), Stanford may well have pulled it out. Woulda-coulda-shoulda, but fun to consider.

It would have been tough for Walsh to start Elway over Schonert in '79 because Walsh wasn't the coach. I remember Dowhower giving both Schonert and Elway playing time in 1979, but I don't remember Elway's perfomance being that superior to Schonert's. It's been awhile though.

Gail was speaking hypothetically.  Sometimes Schonert had the hot hand, sometimes Elway did.  Schonert was darn good.  

There were two fairly highly regarded QB’s behind Schonert coming into the season- Babe Laufenberg and Grayson Rodgers. They both transferred shortly after Elway arrived. Laufenberg to Indiana, Rodgers to Pacific.

I went to practices in those days.  I still remember the first time I saw Elway.  They were having receivers run go routes. Schonert threw nice 40 yard passes.  Looped a bit as you’d expect.  Elway threw 40 yard rockets.  The railbirds gasped.  

Just before his first SB, Leonard Koppett (a terrific sportswriter) compared Elway to Mickey Mantle.  Essentially- he strikes out occasionally, but even the strike outs are thrilling to watch.  And there was always the potential of something truly spectacular.

I love watching Mahomes for the same reason.  Most Elwayesqe QB I’ve seen.

[lex24]

In reality, John Elway's "coach" was his dad. I doubt that anyone on Wiggin's staff, including Jim Fassel, could ever help him.

Elway lobbied for Fassel to be hired as the Broncos OC and always credited him as a major influence on his development, so I'm pretty sure that Elway felt that Fassel had helped him a lot at Stanford.

Fassel was also his presenter when Elway was inducted into the Stanford Athletics Hall of Fame.

I was there that night.  I remember Fassel telling the story of Elway throwing kickoffs for the return team. They were at Fort Dohower.   First one went to about the 5.  They asked him to throw it deeper.  Next one went to about goal line.  They asked him to throw it deeper.  Next one sailed through the goalpost and into the parking lot.  Fassel asked: “is that  deep enough?” Maybe apocryphal.  But a good story.

---

If anyone has any idea, when John Elway was recruited from High School, how would he have been ranked if today's prospect scouting and recruit ranking systems were used?  Would he have been a 5 star or a 4 star?  

He was the top recruit in the country. He only played half a season as a senior in high school but he was still selected as Parade Magazine's first team All America (Dan Marino was second team).

Yep.  John Robinson coached him in an all star game.  Said he was the best high school QB he’d ever seen.  He was far from alone in that opinion.  Heck, one coach that recruited him said he slept with his mother, and still couldn’t get him.:).

---

If anyone has any idea, when John Elway was recruited from High School, how would he have been ranked if today's prospect scouting and recruit ranking systems were used?  Would he have been a 5 star or a 4 star?  

I assume he had offers from all over the country, but I don't know that for sure and am curious to know what his recruitment was like.

USC really wanted him and he almost went there. Can you imagine a backfield of Elway and Marcus Allen???

Heck, can you imagine what Elway and Stanford could have done if Walsh stayed?  I wish…..

And what if Walsh had recruited Allen?! One thing for certain: Even w/o MA, the losses to USC in 1980-82 would have been nail-biters, not thumpings. Maybe 2-1, Stanford. And in '79, had Walsh started Elway over Schonert (uncertain), Stanford may well have pulled it out. Woulda-coulda-shoulda, but fun to consider.

It would have been tough for Walsh to start Elway over Schonert in '79 because Walsh wasn't the coach. I remember Dowhower giving both Schonert and Elway playing time in 1979, but I don't remember Elway's perfomance being that superior to Schonert's. It's been awhile though.

Gail was speaking hypothetically.  Sometimes Schonert had the hot hand, sometimes Elway did.  Schonert was darn good.  

There were two fairly highly regarded QB’s behind Schonert coming into the season- Babe Laufenberg and Grayson Rodgers. They both transferred shortly after Elway arrived. Laufenberg to Indiana, Rodgers to Pacific.

I went to practices in those days.  I still remember the first time I saw Elway.  They were having receivers run go routes. Schonert threw nice 40 yard passes.  Looped a bit as you’d expect.  Elway threw 40 yard rockets.  The railbirds gasped.  

Just before his first SB, Leonard Koppett (a terrific sportswriter) compared Elway to Mickey Mantle.  Essentially- he strikes out occasionally, but even the strike outs are thrilling to watch.  And there was always the potential of something truly spectacular.

I love watching Mahomes for the same reason.  Most Elwayesqe QB I’ve seen.

[cardcrimson]

In reality, John Elway's "coach" was his dad. I doubt that anyone on Wiggin's staff, including Jim Fassel, could ever help him.

Elway lobbied for Fassel to be hired as the Broncos OC and always credited him as a major influence on his development, so I'm pretty sure that Elway felt that Fassel had helped him a lot at Stanford.

Fassel was also his presenter when Elway was inducted into the Stanford Athletics Hall of Fame.

I was there that night.  I remember Fassel telling the story of Elway throwing kickoffs for the return team. They were at Fort Dohower.   First one went to about the 5.  They asked him to throw it deeper.  Next one went to about goal line.  They asked him to throw it deeper.  Next one sailed through the goalpost and into the parking lot.  Fassel asked: “is that  deep enough?” Maybe apocryphal.  But a good story.

---

If anyone has any idea, when John Elway was recruited from High School, how would he have been ranked if today's prospect scouting and recruit ranking systems were used?  Would he have been a 5 star or a 4 star?  

He was the top recruit in the country. He only played half a season as a senior in high school but he was still selected as Parade Magazine's first team All America (Dan Marino was second team).

Yep.  John Robinson coached him in an all star game.  Said he was the best high school QB he’d ever seen.  He was far from alone in that opinion.  Heck, one coach that recruited him said he slept with his mother, and still couldn’t get him.:).

---

If anyone has any idea, when John Elway was recruited from High School, how would he have been ranked if today's prospect scouting and recruit ranking systems were used?  Would he have been a 5 star or a 4 star?  

I assume he had offers from all over the country, but I don't know that for sure and am curious to know what his recruitment was like.

USC really wanted him and he almost went there. Can you imagine a backfield of Elway and Marcus Allen???

Heck, can you imagine what Elway and Stanford could have done if Walsh stayed?  I wish…..

And what if Walsh had recruited Allen?! One thing for certain: Even w/o MA, the losses to USC in 1980-82 would have been nail-biters, not thumpings. Maybe 2-1, Stanford. And in '79, had Walsh started Elway over Schonert (uncertain), Stanford may well have pulled it out. Woulda-coulda-shoulda, but fun to consider.

It would have been tough for Walsh to start Elway over Schonert in '79 because Walsh wasn't the coach. I remember Dowhower giving both Schonert and Elway playing time in 1979, but I don't remember Elway's perfomance being that superior to Schonert's. It's been awhile though.

Schonert played well, IIRC. Elway was exciting and new. Then there was this: 

https://www.nytimes.com/1979/10/14/archi...asses.html

One of the more memorable games while at Stanford.

[cardcrimson]

In reality, John Elway's "coach" was his dad. I doubt that anyone on Wiggin's staff, including Jim Fassel, could ever help him.

Elway lobbied for Fassel to be hired as the Broncos OC and always credited him as a major influence on his development, so I'm pretty sure that Elway felt that Fassel had helped him a lot at Stanford.

Fassel was also his presenter when Elway was inducted into the Stanford Athletics Hall of Fame.

I was there that night.  I remember Fassel telling the story of Elway throwing kickoffs for the return team. They were at Fort Dohower.   First one went to about the 5.  They asked him to throw it deeper.  Next one went to about goal line.  They asked him to throw it deeper.  Next one sailed through the goalpost and into the parking lot.  Fassel asked: “is that  deep enough?” Maybe apocryphal.  But a good story.

---

If anyone has any idea, when John Elway was recruited from High School, how would he have been ranked if today's prospect scouting and recruit ranking systems were used?  Would he have been a 5 star or a 4 star?  

He was the top recruit in the country. He only played half a season as a senior in high school but he was still selected as Parade Magazine's first team All America (Dan Marino was second team).

Yep.  John Robinson coached him in an all star game.  Said he was the best high school QB he’d ever seen.  He was far from alone in that opinion.  Heck, one coach that recruited him said he slept with his mother, and still couldn’t get him.:).

---

If anyone has any idea, when John Elway was recruited from High School, how would he have been ranked if today's prospect scouting and recruit ranking systems were used?  Would he have been a 5 star or a 4 star?  

I assume he had offers from all over the country, but I don't know that for sure and am curious to know what his recruitment was like.

USC really wanted him and he almost went there. Can you imagine a backfield of Elway and Marcus Allen???

Heck, can you imagine what Elway and Stanford could have done if Walsh stayed?  I wish…..

And what if Walsh had recruited Allen?! One thing for certain: Even w/o MA, the losses to USC in 1980-82 would have been nail-biters, not thumpings. Maybe 2-1, Stanford. And in '79, had Walsh started Elway over Schonert (uncertain), Stanford may well have pulled it out. Woulda-coulda-shoulda, but fun to consider.

It would have been tough for Walsh to start Elway over Schonert in '79 because Walsh wasn't the coach. I remember Dowhower giving both Schonert and Elway playing time in 1979, but I don't remember Elway's perfomance being that superior to Schonert's. It's been awhile though.

Schonert played well, IIRC. Elway was exciting and new. Then there was this: 

https://www.nytimes.com/1979/10/14/archi...asses.html

One of the more memorable games while at Stanford.

[Embo]

It would have been tough for Walsh to start Elway over Schonert in '79 because Walsh wasn't the coach. I remember Dowhower giving both Schonert and Elway playing time in 1979, but I don't remember Elway's perfomance being that superior to Schonert's. It's been awhile though.

Dowhower did platoon Schonert (may he rest in peace) and Elway from the very start of the season.  They were neck in neck, and Elway may have taken a lead vs UCLA in the old lady. He led Stanford down the field with less than a minute to go to give Ken Naber the chance for the 59 yard winning FG.  Afterwards, UCLA HC Terry Donahue said, "He's not a good quarterback, he's a great quarterback".  Donahue recruited Elway hard, but Elway told him they didn't throw enough.  Donahue promised he would change if Elway committed.

The following week was the epic 21-21 tie vs USC (one of the greatest teams even, with White, Lott, Munoz).  Elway did throw an interception in the first half, and the halftime score was 21-0.  Schonert had an epic second half, and he unquestionably earned the starting position from that point.

---

I went to practices in those days.  I still remember the first time I saw Elway.  They were having receivers run go routes. Schonert threw nice 40 yard passes.  Looped a bit as you’d expect.  Elway threw 40 yard rockets.  The railbirds gasped.  

Hey lex,
    I've told this story before on the old Bootleg board.  I bet you were there too: It was the 1980 Big Game in Memorial.  I was seated on the shady side, south end of stadium maybe 10 yard line.  Stanford had the ball on their own 20, north end.  Elway went back to pass, had a heavy pass rush, and ran back towards his own end zone.  He juked right, then juked left, making a big U turn in the end zone.  From where I sat, I saw Ken Margerum running a go route down the east sideline - and kept running.  I saw him out of the corner of my eye approaching the cal 20 and thought, "Oh man, if Elway could just see him - but he can't throw it that far."  Turned out I was wrong - Elway did see him, and launched it.  It went 80 yards with practically no arc.  Margerum couldn't catch it, and even if he did, he would have been out of bounds.  But the entire stadium - Red and Blue - let out this collective "Whoa!!" as if to ask - did a human being actually do that?

[Embo]

It would have been tough for Walsh to start Elway over Schonert in '79 because Walsh wasn't the coach. I remember Dowhower giving both Schonert and Elway playing time in 1979, but I don't remember Elway's perfomance being that superior to Schonert's. It's been awhile though.

Dowhower did platoon Schonert (may he rest in peace) and Elway from the very start of the season.  They were neck in neck, and Elway may have taken a lead vs UCLA in the old lady. He led Stanford down the field with less than a minute to go to give Ken Naber the chance for the 59 yard winning FG.  Afterwards, UCLA HC Terry Donahue said, "He's not a good quarterback, he's a great quarterback".  Donahue recruited Elway hard, but Elway told him they didn't throw enough.  Donahue promised he would change if Elway committed.

The following week was the epic 21-21 tie vs USC (one of the greatest teams even, with White, Lott, Munoz).  Elway did throw an interception in the first half, and the halftime score was 21-0.  Schonert had an epic second half, and he unquestionably earned the starting position from that point.

---

I went to practices in those days.  I still remember the first time I saw Elway.  They were having receivers run go routes. Schonert threw nice 40 yard passes.  Looped a bit as you’d expect.  Elway threw 40 yard rockets.  The railbirds gasped.  

Hey lex,
    I've told this story before on the old Bootleg board.  I bet you were there too: It was the 1980 Big Game in Memorial.  I was seated on the shady side, south end of stadium maybe 10 yard line.  Stanford had the ball on their own 20, north end.  Elway went back to pass, had a heavy pass rush, and ran back towards his own end zone.  He juked right, then juked left, making a big U turn in the end zone.  From where I sat, I saw Ken Margerum running a go route down the east sideline - and kept running.  I saw him out of the corner of my eye approaching the cal 20 and thought, "Oh man, if Elway could just see him - but he can't throw it that far."  Turned out I was wrong - Elway did see him, and launched it.  It went 80 yards with practically no arc.  Margerum couldn't catch it, and even if he did, he would have been out of bounds.  But the entire stadium - Red and Blue - let out this collective "Whoa!!" as if to ask - did a human being actually do that?

[Phogge]

I was at the ‘79 SC game and I still have six cans of 16mm film in my garage from that game. I believe Schonert started and Elway had the second Q. I think he threw for over a hundred yards but no points. Schonert was fantastic and eventually led the NCAA in passing. SC lined up for the potential game winning FB but it was blocked. I believe nobody remembers what happened next. Gary Wimmer, a LB with speed had a chance to pick up the ball in the Trojans backfield and nobody was in front of him. Couldn’t handle it.

[Phogge]

I was at the ‘79 SC game and I still have six cans of 16mm film in my garage from that game. I believe Schonert started and Elway had the second Q. I think he threw for over a hundred yards but no points. Schonert was fantastic and eventually led the NCAA in passing. SC lined up for the potential game winning FB but it was blocked. I believe nobody remembers what happened next. Gary Wimmer, a LB with speed had a chance to pick up the ball in the Trojans backfield and nobody was in front of him. Couldn’t handle it.