[winflop]

Hell of an effort today but still a loss.

Not expecting an invitation to the Not Important Tournament, which means the season is over

I hope that it also means we will have a new HC next season, but I can just hear Muir saying "we were so close." So close to what exactly??? We weren't close to anything that matters or will put butts in seats next season - not close to competing for a conference title, and not close to an NCAA bid.

---

I watched yesterday's come back and today's game with more than mild surprise. Having given Haase alot of crap over the season, I have to applaud the season's end. Yesterday, I'd say, great game, but he still has to go. Today has me rethinking. They had a plan, they executed it, and they almost won.The fact I'm rethinking is irritating. Here's the thing. What do the players think? Do they strongly support Haase or are they saying he's a good guy but we should have been better all season. The one bit of coaching I heard was coaches telling Jones he has to get up 15 shots. That's good coaching. Were they telling him that all year or just the last few games, etc.

Anyhow, I'm still rethinking....and irritated.

Do not let one game change your mind. There is a six-year body of work to evaluate.

[winflop]

Hell of an effort today but still a loss.

Not expecting an invitation to the Not Important Tournament, which means the season is over

I hope that it also means we will have a new HC next season, but I can just hear Muir saying "we were so close." So close to what exactly??? We weren't close to anything that matters or will put butts in seats next season - not close to competing for a conference title, and not close to an NCAA bid.

---

I watched yesterday's come back and today's game with more than mild surprise. Having given Haase alot of crap over the season, I have to applaud the season's end. Yesterday, I'd say, great game, but he still has to go. Today has me rethinking. They had a plan, they executed it, and they almost won.The fact I'm rethinking is irritating. Here's the thing. What do the players think? Do they strongly support Haase or are they saying he's a good guy but we should have been better all season. The one bit of coaching I heard was coaches telling Jones he has to get up 15 shots. That's good coaching. Were they telling him that all year or just the last few games, etc.

Anyhow, I'm still rethinking....and irritated.

Do not let one game change your mind. There is a six-year body of work to evaluate.

[teejers1]

Do not let one game change your mind. There is a six-year body of work to evaluate.

There is a body of work.  And one game shouldn't change anyone's mind.

Still, I'd be fine if Haase stayed another year, in an NCAA-or-out situation.  And I'd understand if he weren't invited back.  I won't cancel my STH status, either way, even though I'd personally probably give him another season.  Part of my thinking is colored by football.  Shaw obviously isn't going anywhere, and in my mind, he has had 3 bad seasons in a row, with "crater" status now firmly in play - and that's worse than several mediocre seasons in a row in hoops.  (So many folks here want to paint the 4-2 2020 season as good - that team was bad and was lucky to win games against similarly bad teams).  Whatever.  I'm kind of resigned to status quo for another year.  I hope both teams turn it around - I'm convinced one will not, and have no clue about the other.

P.S.  The home Ls against Utah and Colorado, followed by the L at Cal are the brutal ones.  The AZ roadie was actually not bad ball by Stanford; the P12 tourney was better than that.  Again . . . shoulder-shrug.

[teejers1]

Do not let one game change your mind. There is a six-year body of work to evaluate.

There is a body of work.  And one game shouldn't change anyone's mind.

Still, I'd be fine if Haase stayed another year, in an NCAA-or-out situation.  And I'd understand if he weren't invited back.  I won't cancel my STH status, either way, even though I'd personally probably give him another season.  Part of my thinking is colored by football.  Shaw obviously isn't going anywhere, and in my mind, he has had 3 bad seasons in a row, with "crater" status now firmly in play - and that's worse than several mediocre seasons in a row in hoops.  (So many folks here want to paint the 4-2 2020 season as good - that team was bad and was lucky to win games against similarly bad teams).  Whatever.  I'm kind of resigned to status quo for another year.  I hope both teams turn it around - I'm convinced one will not, and have no clue about the other.

P.S.  The home Ls against Utah and Colorado, followed by the L at Cal are the brutal ones.  The AZ roadie was actually not bad ball by Stanford; the P12 tourney was better than that.  Again . . . shoulder-shrug.

[BostonCard]

Actually you keep bringing that 4-2 season up because it ruins your narrative.

I’m surprised you are willing to give Haase as much grace as you have, given your decided lack of support for Shaw.

The bottom line is that since Haase has been hired, Shaw has gone to three bowl games, and Haase has gone to zero NCAA tournaments.

BC

[BostonCard]

Actually you keep bringing that 4-2 season up because it ruins your narrative.

I’m surprised you are willing to give Haase as much grace as you have, given your decided lack of support for Shaw.

The bottom line is that since Haase has been hired, Shaw has gone to three bowl games, and Haase has gone to zero NCAA tournaments.

BC

[Branner77]

How good would LSJU have been this year with T Terry and Z Williams (fully motivated version) on the roster.

Oscar da Silva's brother helped lead the Buffs past the Dux.

[Branner77]

How good would LSJU have been this year with T Terry and Z Williams (fully motivated version) on the roster.

Oscar da Silva's brother helped lead the Buffs past the Dux.

[BostonCard]

How good would LSJU have been this year with T Terry and Z Williams (fully motivated version) on the roster.

Oscar da Silva's brother helped lead the Buffs past the Dux.

Yeah, but somehow we’d still be playing Kisunas and Beskind because… floor burns.

BC

[BostonCard]

How good would LSJU have been this year with T Terry and Z Williams (fully motivated version) on the roster.

Oscar da Silva's brother helped lead the Buffs past the Dux.

Yeah, but somehow we’d still be playing Kisunas and Beskind because… floor burns.

BC

[old spanish trail]

How good would LSJU have been this year with T Terry and Z Williams (fully motivated version) on the roster.

Oscar da Silva's brother helped lead the Buffs past the Dux.

Yeah, but somehow we’d still be playing Kisunas and Beskind because… floor burns.

BC

Lol

[old spanish trail]

How good would LSJU have been this year with T Terry and Z Williams (fully motivated version) on the roster.

Oscar da Silva's brother helped lead the Buffs past the Dux.

Yeah, but somehow we’d still be playing Kisunas and Beskind because… floor burns.

BC

Lol

[SamuelMcF]

Actually you keep bringing that 4-2 season up because it ruins your narrative.

I’m surprised you are willing to give Haase as much grace as you have, given your decided lack of support for Shaw.

The bottom line is that since Haase has been hired, Shaw has gone to three bowl games, and Haase has gone to zero NCAA tournaments.

BC

One has overseen the program falling completely in the toilet.

The other has done precisely nothing for the program in either direction.

[SamuelMcF]

Actually you keep bringing that 4-2 season up because it ruins your narrative.

I’m surprised you are willing to give Haase as much grace as you have, given your decided lack of support for Shaw.

The bottom line is that since Haase has been hired, Shaw has gone to three bowl games, and Haase has gone to zero NCAA tournaments.

BC

One has overseen the program falling completely in the toilet.

The other has done precisely nothing for the program in either direction.

[teejers1]

Actually you keep bringing that 4-2 season up because it ruins your narrative.

I’m surprised you are willing to give Haase as much grace as you have, given your decided lack of support for Shaw.

The bottom line is that since Haase has been hired, Shaw has gone to three bowl games, and Haase has gone to zero NCAA tournaments.

BC

You keep holding onto that 4-2 season . . . it may be all you have to cling to in 5 years as you look back and wonder WTH happened.

If Haase had inherited a Top 5 program with a majority of starters sticking around for 2 more years (and been able to use those coattails to win and recruit studs to Stanford) and then proceeded to run the Stanford hoops program into the ground, then I'd be equally adamant that a change is overdue.

Instead, Haase inherited a program that was up and mostly down and has been about a .500 coach.  Not good; not a crater.  Plus, there are a few things that really hurt Stanford hoops and appear to be beyond Haase's control:  TT bolting after one year; Williams mailing it in his only year on the Farm; Da Silva not admitted to grad program; and the transfer portal having a larger negative impact on Stanford's ability to compete in hoops than in football, due to the reality that 1 or 2 transfers can make a big difference for an opposing program.

Still, the buck ultimately stops with the head coach.  Thus, I would not have been upset had a move been made.  
I just don't feel strongly about it.  At all.
And on both programs, the feelings is mostly one of resignation.

[teejers1]

Actually you keep bringing that 4-2 season up because it ruins your narrative.

I’m surprised you are willing to give Haase as much grace as you have, given your decided lack of support for Shaw.

The bottom line is that since Haase has been hired, Shaw has gone to three bowl games, and Haase has gone to zero NCAA tournaments.

BC

You keep holding onto that 4-2 season . . . it may be all you have to cling to in 5 years as you look back and wonder WTH happened.

If Haase had inherited a Top 5 program with a majority of starters sticking around for 2 more years (and been able to use those coattails to win and recruit studs to Stanford) and then proceeded to run the Stanford hoops program into the ground, then I'd be equally adamant that a change is overdue.

Instead, Haase inherited a program that was up and mostly down and has been about a .500 coach.  Not good; not a crater.  Plus, there are a few things that really hurt Stanford hoops and appear to be beyond Haase's control:  TT bolting after one year; Williams mailing it in his only year on the Farm; Da Silva not admitted to grad program; and the transfer portal having a larger negative impact on Stanford's ability to compete in hoops than in football, due to the reality that 1 or 2 transfers can make a big difference for an opposing program.

Still, the buck ultimately stops with the head coach.  Thus, I would not have been upset had a move been made.  
I just don't feel strongly about it.  At all.
And on both programs, the feelings is mostly one of resignation.

[Farm93]

In both sports a new coach would need at least 3 or 4 years to understand how to alter their style to likely Stanford admits while also learning how to recruit in that very small pool.   NIL and the transfer portal mean any new coach will really struggle for their first few years on campus.

And in both revenue sports should a Stanford coach finish in the top third of the conference, that coach will leave if they don't have some affinity (Born in SF Bay Area, attended Stanford, child is on team, etc.).  


However, as I have said for 18 months.   The uniquely stringent COVID protocols at Stanford and in Santa Clara County will give every Stanford coach a pass for everything that happened during COVID.    While I really doubt Haase will do better post-COVID protocols I always believed he would stay after this season because COVID protocols impacted a lot of aspects of coaching at Stanford. 

FWIW - For those thinking Shaw needs to go.   I believe COVID gives him cover too.

I think Haase gets the 2022-2023 to show what he can do with his roster in a year without significant COVID-19 protocols impacting the team, the sport and/or the campus.

Shaw only has 1 non-COVID bad year, and 4 Pac-12 COY great years, so if I am reading the Muir/COVID situation correctly Coach Shaw would need at least 2 sub-500 years AFTER COVID to be in the place Haase is in now.   

For those thinking...if my read is even close Stanford should fire Muir.   Muir is also likely safe during this COVID protocol era.   Potentially he is asked to leave 12-14 months from now.   But a new AD, even if one is announced soon after Muir's departure, would probably be very reluctant to fire a basketball or football coach until they understand what type of person is likely to succeed at Stanford given the admissions requirement and the new complexities of the transfer portal and NIL.   So if Haase and Shaw are unsuccessful going forward their tenure at Stanford is likely extended further in any scenario where Muir leaves while they are struggling on the field.

My guess -
Haase gets fired by Muir in March 2023.
Muir resigns, retires or is fired by 2025.
And Shaw stays at least through year 2 of the NEXT AD's tenure.

[Farm93]

In both sports a new coach would need at least 3 or 4 years to understand how to alter their style to likely Stanford admits while also learning how to recruit in that very small pool.   NIL and the transfer portal mean any new coach will really struggle for their first few years on campus.

And in both revenue sports should a Stanford coach finish in the top third of the conference, that coach will leave if they don't have some affinity (Born in SF Bay Area, attended Stanford, child is on team, etc.).  


However, as I have said for 18 months.   The uniquely stringent COVID protocols at Stanford and in Santa Clara County will give every Stanford coach a pass for everything that happened during COVID.    While I really doubt Haase will do better post-COVID protocols I always believed he would stay after this season because COVID protocols impacted a lot of aspects of coaching at Stanford. 

FWIW - For those thinking Shaw needs to go.   I believe COVID gives him cover too.

I think Haase gets the 2022-2023 to show what he can do with his roster in a year without significant COVID-19 protocols impacting the team, the sport and/or the campus.

Shaw only has 1 non-COVID bad year, and 4 Pac-12 COY great years, so if I am reading the Muir/COVID situation correctly Coach Shaw would need at least 2 sub-500 years AFTER COVID to be in the place Haase is in now.   

For those thinking...if my read is even close Stanford should fire Muir.   Muir is also likely safe during this COVID protocol era.   Potentially he is asked to leave 12-14 months from now.   But a new AD, even if one is announced soon after Muir's departure, would probably be very reluctant to fire a basketball or football coach until they understand what type of person is likely to succeed at Stanford given the admissions requirement and the new complexities of the transfer portal and NIL.   So if Haase and Shaw are unsuccessful going forward their tenure at Stanford is likely extended further in any scenario where Muir leaves while they are struggling on the field.

My guess -
Haase gets fired by Muir in March 2023.
Muir resigns, retires or is fired by 2025.
And Shaw stays at least through year 2 of the NEXT AD's tenure.

[PVTree]

Daejon Davis with a tough last game for Washington.

He fouled out with 0 points, shooting 0 for 6, 0 for 3 from 3 points, 1 rebound, 2 assists, 2 steals, and 1 turnover.

For the season, he averaged 7.0 points, 2.8 rebound, and 2.8 assists. These averages are lower than any seasonal average he had at Stanford.

[PVTree]

Daejon Davis with a tough last game for Washington.

He fouled out with 0 points, shooting 0 for 6, 0 for 3 from 3 points, 1 rebound, 2 assists, 2 steals, and 1 turnover.

For the season, he averaged 7.0 points, 2.8 rebound, and 2.8 assists. These averages are lower than any seasonal average he had at Stanford.

[Phogge]

Haase, Shaw and Muir... three of the four Horsemen of the Stanford Apocalypse.

Well at least you guys still have the Ted Cup to worry about.

[Phogge]

Haase, Shaw and Muir... three of the four Horsemen of the Stanford Apocalypse.

Well at least you guys still have the Ted Cup to worry about.

[BobK]

Farm if took Bowsby what 2 weeks or so to fire Harris.
In any case I hope both teams do great.

[BobK]

Farm if took Bowsby what 2 weeks or so to fire Harris.
In any case I hope both teams do great.

[winflop]

In both sports a new coach would need at least 3 or 4 years to understand how to alter their style to likely Stanford admits while also learning how to recruit in that very small pool.   NIL and the transfer portal mean any new coach will really struggle for their first few years on campus.

And in both revenue sports should a Stanford coach finish in the top third of the conference, that coach will leave if they don't have some affinity (Born in SF Bay Area, attended Stanford, child is on team, etc.).  


However, as I have said for 18 months.   The uniquely stringent COVID protocols at Stanford and in Santa Clara County will give every Stanford coach a pass for everything that happened during COVID.    While I really doubt Haase will do better post-COVID protocols I always believed he would stay after this season because COVID protocols impacted a lot of aspects of coaching at Stanford. 

FWIW - For those thinking Shaw needs to go.   I believe COVID gives him cover too.

I think Haase gets the 2022-2023 to show what he can do with his roster in a year without significant COVID-19 protocols impacting the team, the sport and/or the campus.

Shaw only has 1 non-COVID bad year, and 4 Pac-12 COY great years, so if I am reading the Muir/COVID situation correctly Coach Shaw would need at least 2 sub-500 years AFTER COVID to be in the place Haase is in now.   

For those thinking...if my read is even close Stanford should fire Muir.   Muir is also likely safe during this COVID protocol era.   Potentially he is asked to leave 12-14 months from now.   But a new AD, even if one is announced soon after Muir's departure, would probably be very reluctant to fire a basketball or football coach until they understand what type of person is likely to succeed at Stanford given the admissions requirement and the new complexities of the transfer portal and NIL.   So if Haase and Shaw are unsuccessful going forward their tenure at Stanford is likely extended further in any scenario where Muir leaves while they are struggling on the field.

My guess -
Haase gets fired by Muir in March 2023.
Muir resigns, retires or is fired by 2025.
And Shaw stays at least through year 2 of the NEXT AD's tenure.

I'm not sure how long Shaw will last if Stanford continues to flounder, which in my book is 7-5 or worse. Like NIT bids, playing in the Poulan Weedeater Bowl is not my definition of success.

[winflop]

In both sports a new coach would need at least 3 or 4 years to understand how to alter their style to likely Stanford admits while also learning how to recruit in that very small pool.   NIL and the transfer portal mean any new coach will really struggle for their first few years on campus.

And in both revenue sports should a Stanford coach finish in the top third of the conference, that coach will leave if they don't have some affinity (Born in SF Bay Area, attended Stanford, child is on team, etc.).  


However, as I have said for 18 months.   The uniquely stringent COVID protocols at Stanford and in Santa Clara County will give every Stanford coach a pass for everything that happened during COVID.    While I really doubt Haase will do better post-COVID protocols I always believed he would stay after this season because COVID protocols impacted a lot of aspects of coaching at Stanford. 

FWIW - For those thinking Shaw needs to go.   I believe COVID gives him cover too.

I think Haase gets the 2022-2023 to show what he can do with his roster in a year without significant COVID-19 protocols impacting the team, the sport and/or the campus.

Shaw only has 1 non-COVID bad year, and 4 Pac-12 COY great years, so if I am reading the Muir/COVID situation correctly Coach Shaw would need at least 2 sub-500 years AFTER COVID to be in the place Haase is in now.   

For those thinking...if my read is even close Stanford should fire Muir.   Muir is also likely safe during this COVID protocol era.   Potentially he is asked to leave 12-14 months from now.   But a new AD, even if one is announced soon after Muir's departure, would probably be very reluctant to fire a basketball or football coach until they understand what type of person is likely to succeed at Stanford given the admissions requirement and the new complexities of the transfer portal and NIL.   So if Haase and Shaw are unsuccessful going forward their tenure at Stanford is likely extended further in any scenario where Muir leaves while they are struggling on the field.

My guess -
Haase gets fired by Muir in March 2023.
Muir resigns, retires or is fired by 2025.
And Shaw stays at least through year 2 of the NEXT AD's tenure.

I'm not sure how long Shaw will last if Stanford continues to flounder, which in my book is 7-5 or worse. Like NIT bids, playing in the Poulan Weedeater Bowl is not my definition of success.

[SamuelMcF]

In both sports a new coach would need at least 3 or 4 years to understand how to alter their style to likely Stanford admits while also learning how to recruit in that very small pool.   NIL and the transfer portal mean any new coach will really struggle for their first few years on campus.

And in both revenue sports should a Stanford coach finish in the top third of the conference, that coach will leave if they don't have some affinity (Born in SF Bay Area, attended Stanford, child is on team, etc.).  


However, as I have said for 18 months.   The uniquely stringent COVID protocols at Stanford and in Santa Clara County will give every Stanford coach a pass for everything that happened during COVID.    While I really doubt Haase will do better post-COVID protocols I always believed he would stay after this season because COVID protocols impacted a lot of aspects of coaching at Stanford. 

FWIW - For those thinking Shaw needs to go.   I believe COVID gives him cover too.

I think Haase gets the 2022-2023 to show what he can do with his roster in a year without significant COVID-19 protocols impacting the team, the sport and/or the campus.

Shaw only has 1 non-COVID bad year, and 4 Pac-12 COY great years, so if I am reading the Muir/COVID situation correctly Coach Shaw would need at least 2 sub-500 years AFTER COVID to be in the place Haase is in now.   

For those thinking...if my read is even close Stanford should fire Muir.   Muir is also likely safe during this COVID protocol era.   Potentially he is asked to leave 12-14 months from now.   But a new AD, even if one is announced soon after Muir's departure, would probably be very reluctant to fire a basketball or football coach until they understand what type of person is likely to succeed at Stanford given the admissions requirement and the new complexities of the transfer portal and NIL.   So if Haase and Shaw are unsuccessful going forward their tenure at Stanford is likely extended further in any scenario where Muir leaves while they are struggling on the field.

My guess -
Haase gets fired by Muir in March 2023.
Muir resigns, retires or is fired by 2025.
And Shaw stays at least through year 2 of the NEXT AD's tenure.

I'm not sure how long Shaw will last if Stanford continues to flounder, which in my book is 7-5 or worse. Like NIT bids, playing in the Poulan Weedeater Bowl is not my definition of success.

Longer than Haase will.

[SamuelMcF]

In both sports a new coach would need at least 3 or 4 years to understand how to alter their style to likely Stanford admits while also learning how to recruit in that very small pool.   NIL and the transfer portal mean any new coach will really struggle for their first few years on campus.

And in both revenue sports should a Stanford coach finish in the top third of the conference, that coach will leave if they don't have some affinity (Born in SF Bay Area, attended Stanford, child is on team, etc.).  


However, as I have said for 18 months.   The uniquely stringent COVID protocols at Stanford and in Santa Clara County will give every Stanford coach a pass for everything that happened during COVID.    While I really doubt Haase will do better post-COVID protocols I always believed he would stay after this season because COVID protocols impacted a lot of aspects of coaching at Stanford. 

FWIW - For those thinking Shaw needs to go.   I believe COVID gives him cover too.

I think Haase gets the 2022-2023 to show what he can do with his roster in a year without significant COVID-19 protocols impacting the team, the sport and/or the campus.

Shaw only has 1 non-COVID bad year, and 4 Pac-12 COY great years, so if I am reading the Muir/COVID situation correctly Coach Shaw would need at least 2 sub-500 years AFTER COVID to be in the place Haase is in now.   

For those thinking...if my read is even close Stanford should fire Muir.   Muir is also likely safe during this COVID protocol era.   Potentially he is asked to leave 12-14 months from now.   But a new AD, even if one is announced soon after Muir's departure, would probably be very reluctant to fire a basketball or football coach until they understand what type of person is likely to succeed at Stanford given the admissions requirement and the new complexities of the transfer portal and NIL.   So if Haase and Shaw are unsuccessful going forward their tenure at Stanford is likely extended further in any scenario where Muir leaves while they are struggling on the field.

My guess -
Haase gets fired by Muir in March 2023.
Muir resigns, retires or is fired by 2025.
And Shaw stays at least through year 2 of the NEXT AD's tenure.

I'm not sure how long Shaw will last if Stanford continues to flounder, which in my book is 7-5 or worse. Like NIT bids, playing in the Poulan Weedeater Bowl is not my definition of success.

Longer than Haase will.