07-20-2022, 09:43 PM
Forgot about the East. Senior moment.
WC Braves, Giants, Cards. Padres fail.
WC Braves, Giants, Cards. Padres fail.
Outside Topic 2022 Giants thread
07-21-2022, 07:22 PM
Giants won 7 of 9 heading into the All-Star break. Hope Slater picks up where he left off. Last two weeks, his line was .485/.541/.606/1.147.
Audaces fortuna iuvat
07-21-2022, 09:22 PM
(This post was last modified: 07-21-2022, 09:23 PM by BostonCard.)
Not looking good today. 1 hit through 7 innings.
BC
And just as post that, Longoria hits a homer.
BC
BC
And just as post that, Longoria hits a homer.
BC
(This post was last modified: 07-21-2022, 09:23 PM by BostonCard.)
Not looking good today. 1 hit through 7 innings.
BC
And just as post that, Longoria hits a homer.
BC
BC
And just as post that, Longoria hits a homer.
BC
(07-21-2022, 09:22 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Not looking good today. 1 hit through 7 innings.
BC
And just as post that, Longoria hits a homer.
BC
Slater pinch hits, gets HBP.. Graphic shows that he leads all of MLB in July, hitting .455.
And just like that, Darin Ruf's first career grand slam and the game is tied...
Audaces fortuna iuvat
(07-21-2022, 09:22 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Not looking good today. 1 hit through 7 innings.
BC
And just as post that, Longoria hits a homer.
BC
Slater pinch hits, gets HBP.. Graphic shows that he leads all of MLB in July, hitting .455.
And just like that, Darin Ruf's first career grand slam and the game is tied...
Audaces fortuna iuvat
07-21-2022, 10:41 PM
Betts ends the game with a catch that no Giant can make.
Giants on defense are like the ‘62 Mets.
Giants on defense are like the ‘62 Mets.
07-21-2022, 11:00 PM
Give the Giants credit for coming back and tying it twice, but alas, it was not meant to be.
BC
BC
Give the Giants credit for coming back and tying it twice, but alas, it was not meant to be.
BC
BC
07-22-2022, 06:17 AM
This is way more interesting than seeing the Giants demonstrate what the MLB manifestation of the Peter Principle looks like.
https://theathletic.com/3434355/2022/07/...-outcomes/
Hopefully y'all have some thoughts to share about this cuz it makes for a fascinating baseball discussion.
https://theathletic.com/3434355/2022/07/...-outcomes/
Hopefully y'all have some thoughts to share about this cuz it makes for a fascinating baseball discussion.
This is way more interesting than seeing the Giants demonstrate what the MLB manifestation of the Peter Principle looks like.
https://theathletic.com/3434355/2022/07/...-outcomes/
Hopefully y'all have some thoughts to share about this cuz it makes for a fascinating baseball discussion.
https://theathletic.com/3434355/2022/07/...-outcomes/
Hopefully y'all have some thoughts to share about this cuz it makes for a fascinating baseball discussion.
07-22-2022, 07:04 AM
Most anyone can lose the ball during twilight but Gonzalez is an adventure waiting to happen. Betts is an incomparable baseball player and with apologies to Trout perhaps the most valuable to his team in all of MLB. Has anyone seen him ever make a mistake?
Injuries have caused Belt to become overmatched at the plate. Hurray for the bunt single. You can’t resign him because he can’t stay healthy.
Who called the third breaking pitch to Alberto? Fastball up and out of the zone on two strikes was to me a no brainer. Rodon needs an effective third pitch.
Joey Bart had two T Ball sliders after he swung at a slider way away. Could’t do anything with them. He is still a multi year project and they still need a catcher.
And when you get down to actually advancing in the playoffs, regardless of how bad they are in the field and in the bullpen, they need a third starter. Junis, Wood and Cobb don’t cut it.
While we wait for Luciano, Pomares, Matos, Schmidt, Vaun Brown, Roby, Bishop and others what do they do?
Injuries have caused Belt to become overmatched at the plate. Hurray for the bunt single. You can’t resign him because he can’t stay healthy.
Who called the third breaking pitch to Alberto? Fastball up and out of the zone on two strikes was to me a no brainer. Rodon needs an effective third pitch.
Joey Bart had two T Ball sliders after he swung at a slider way away. Could’t do anything with them. He is still a multi year project and they still need a catcher.
And when you get down to actually advancing in the playoffs, regardless of how bad they are in the field and in the bullpen, they need a third starter. Junis, Wood and Cobb don’t cut it.
While we wait for Luciano, Pomares, Matos, Schmidt, Vaun Brown, Roby, Bishop and others what do they do?
Most anyone can lose the ball during twilight but Gonzalez is an adventure waiting to happen. Betts is an incomparable baseball player and with apologies to Trout perhaps the most valuable to his team in all of MLB. Has anyone seen him ever make a mistake?
Injuries have caused Belt to become overmatched at the plate. Hurray for the bunt single. You can’t resign him because he can’t stay healthy.
Who called the third breaking pitch to Alberto? Fastball up and out of the zone on two strikes was to me a no brainer. Rodon needs an effective third pitch.
Joey Bart had two T Ball sliders after he swung at a slider way away. Could’t do anything with them. He is still a multi year project and they still need a catcher.
And when you get down to actually advancing in the playoffs, regardless of how bad they are in the field and in the bullpen, they need a third starter. Junis, Wood and Cobb don’t cut it.
While we wait for Luciano, Pomares, Matos, Schmidt, Vaun Brown, Roby, Bishop and others what do they do?
Injuries have caused Belt to become overmatched at the plate. Hurray for the bunt single. You can’t resign him because he can’t stay healthy.
Who called the third breaking pitch to Alberto? Fastball up and out of the zone on two strikes was to me a no brainer. Rodon needs an effective third pitch.
Joey Bart had two T Ball sliders after he swung at a slider way away. Could’t do anything with them. He is still a multi year project and they still need a catcher.
And when you get down to actually advancing in the playoffs, regardless of how bad they are in the field and in the bullpen, they need a third starter. Junis, Wood and Cobb don’t cut it.
While we wait for Luciano, Pomares, Matos, Schmidt, Vaun Brown, Roby, Bishop and others what do they do?
07-22-2022, 08:31 AM
(07-22-2022, 07:04 AM)Phogge Wrote: Most anyone can lose the ball during twilight but Gonzalez is an adventure waiting to happen. Betts is an incomparable baseball player and with apologies to Trout perhaps the most valuable to his team in all of MLB. Has anyone seen him ever make a mistake?
Injuries have caused Belt to become overmatched at the plate. Hurray for the bunt single. You can’t resign him because he can’t stay healthy.
Who called the third breaking pitch to Alberto? Fastball up and out of the zone on two strikes was to me a no brainer. Rodon needs an effective third pitch.
Joey Bart had two T Ball sliders after he swung at a slider way away. Could’t do anything with them. He is still a multi year project and they still need a catcher.
And when you get down to actually advancing in the playoffs, regardless of how bad they are in the field and in the bullpen, they need a third starter. Junis, Wood and Cobb don’t cut it.
While we wait for Luciano, Pomares, Matos, Schmidt, Vaun Brown, Roby, Bishop and others what do they do?
Be aggressive in FA market. As you know some prospects will make it and become regulars, some will get a cup of coffee and some will never make it. Building depth in the farm system was and is a Zaidi priority. He’s done a nice job. Now Giants have an upper tier system. But most of the help is a couple years away.
They have enough now to compete on the fringe. But to continue, they need an “anchor” or two. Stars. Look at last night. Dodgers top three offensive players (they have been carrying this team offensively along with Will Smith) are stars they acquired via trade and then extended (Betts) acquired in trade and probably will extend (Trea T) and acquired via FA.
Betts signed a 12 year deal. They will be paying him approx $30 mill a year from age 35-39. Freeman 6. They will be paying him27 million age 35-37. Are they going to be worth that in those “Back-ends”. Dodgers don’t care. Neither should the Giants. It’s the price you pay to compete in the market.
If Judge comes on market Giants need to be all in. Same to a lesser extent with Trea T. That means overpaying. And accepting that the “back end” will not compute. So, what.
As for the deadline - grab a lefty reliever (last year Giants had 3 good options - McGee, Alvarez, Garcia). McGee DFA’d Alvarez out for season, Garcia has command issues. Be nice if they could also add either an OF or MIF with some athleticism. Someone that can run and play defense. Power optional. High OBP would be nice.
No rentals, unless just buying a contract and giving up low level prospects.
Bullpen was strength last year, weakness this year with what started as same crew. Bullpens are fickle by nature. With few exceptions, what a reliever does in one year doesn’t necessarily carry to the next. Heck, even month to month. Which is why there is enormous tinkering and turnover. The high usage catches up to them. The trick is figuring out when.
Sam Long is a guy I’d like to see used more in high leverage situations. He’s got good stuff. And he’s relatively fresh. Why not give him a shot as the high leverage lefthander?
Love to get Soto. But it’s not gonna happen. Nats are going to want a haul that includes not just prospects, but guys off the 26. Dodgers could easily package Lux, Dustin May and prospects. They will have three years of postseason ball with him pre FA. And they know they can give him what he wants to extended.
Pads can offer Mackenzie Gore and prospects. Put him in lineup with Tatis and Machado…. They can trade Gore cause they have Musgrove and Darvish at top. Maybe Snell finds it. But that’s looking more and more dubious. Clevinger also in the mix. If he gets close to where he was pre injury…..
Giants? They can offer prospects, but the only guy on the 26 that would be attractive is Webb. And that would destroy the pitching staff. I’d trade a slew of prospects for the next Bonds. But I can’t include Webb. So, they are out.
Just hoping Soto signs with Yankees or Mariners. Particularly Yankees, as that makes it likely that Judge will hit the market.
(07-22-2022, 07:04 AM)Phogge Wrote: Most anyone can lose the ball during twilight but Gonzalez is an adventure waiting to happen. Betts is an incomparable baseball player and with apologies to Trout perhaps the most valuable to his team in all of MLB. Has anyone seen him ever make a mistake?
Injuries have caused Belt to become overmatched at the plate. Hurray for the bunt single. You can’t resign him because he can’t stay healthy.
Who called the third breaking pitch to Alberto? Fastball up and out of the zone on two strikes was to me a no brainer. Rodon needs an effective third pitch.
Joey Bart had two T Ball sliders after he swung at a slider way away. Could’t do anything with them. He is still a multi year project and they still need a catcher.
And when you get down to actually advancing in the playoffs, regardless of how bad they are in the field and in the bullpen, they need a third starter. Junis, Wood and Cobb don’t cut it.
While we wait for Luciano, Pomares, Matos, Schmidt, Vaun Brown, Roby, Bishop and others what do they do?
Be aggressive in FA market. As you know some prospects will make it and become regulars, some will get a cup of coffee and some will never make it. Building depth in the farm system was and is a Zaidi priority. He’s done a nice job. Now Giants have an upper tier system. But most of the help is a couple years away.
They have enough now to compete on the fringe. But to continue, they need an “anchor” or two. Stars. Look at last night. Dodgers top three offensive players (they have been carrying this team offensively along with Will Smith) are stars they acquired via trade and then extended (Betts) acquired in trade and probably will extend (Trea T) and acquired via FA.
Betts signed a 12 year deal. They will be paying him approx $30 mill a year from age 35-39. Freeman 6. They will be paying him27 million age 35-37. Are they going to be worth that in those “Back-ends”. Dodgers don’t care. Neither should the Giants. It’s the price you pay to compete in the market.
If Judge comes on market Giants need to be all in. Same to a lesser extent with Trea T. That means overpaying. And accepting that the “back end” will not compute. So, what.
As for the deadline - grab a lefty reliever (last year Giants had 3 good options - McGee, Alvarez, Garcia). McGee DFA’d Alvarez out for season, Garcia has command issues. Be nice if they could also add either an OF or MIF with some athleticism. Someone that can run and play defense. Power optional. High OBP would be nice.
No rentals, unless just buying a contract and giving up low level prospects.
Bullpen was strength last year, weakness this year with what started as same crew. Bullpens are fickle by nature. With few exceptions, what a reliever does in one year doesn’t necessarily carry to the next. Heck, even month to month. Which is why there is enormous tinkering and turnover. The high usage catches up to them. The trick is figuring out when.
Sam Long is a guy I’d like to see used more in high leverage situations. He’s got good stuff. And he’s relatively fresh. Why not give him a shot as the high leverage lefthander?
Love to get Soto. But it’s not gonna happen. Nats are going to want a haul that includes not just prospects, but guys off the 26. Dodgers could easily package Lux, Dustin May and prospects. They will have three years of postseason ball with him pre FA. And they know they can give him what he wants to extended.
Pads can offer Mackenzie Gore and prospects. Put him in lineup with Tatis and Machado…. They can trade Gore cause they have Musgrove and Darvish at top. Maybe Snell finds it. But that’s looking more and more dubious. Clevinger also in the mix. If he gets close to where he was pre injury…..
Giants? They can offer prospects, but the only guy on the 26 that would be attractive is Webb. And that would destroy the pitching staff. I’d trade a slew of prospects for the next Bonds. But I can’t include Webb. So, they are out.
Just hoping Soto signs with Yankees or Mariners. Particularly Yankees, as that makes it likely that Judge will hit the market.
07-22-2022, 08:41 AM
Great post Lex. I like your thoughts. We shall see. Tough tough loss last night but love the grand slam. Got me excited. Having a Betts like player is necessary but through free agency only please
(07-22-2022, 07:04 AM)Phogge Wrote: Most anyone can lose the ball during twilight but Gonzalez is an adventure waiting to happen. Betts is an incomparable baseball player and with apologies to Trout perhaps the most valuable to his team in all of MLB. Has anyone seen him ever make a mistake?
Injuries have caused Belt to become overmatched at the plate. Hurray for the bunt single. You can’t resign him because he can’t stay healthy.
Who called the third breaking pitch to Alberto? Fastball up and out of the zone on two strikes was to me a no brainer. Rodon needs an effective third pitch.
Joey Bart had two T Ball sliders after he swung at a slider way away. Could’t do anything with them. He is still a multi year project and they still need a catcher.
And when you get down to actually advancing in the playoffs, regardless of how bad they are in the field and in the bullpen, they need a third starter. Junis, Wood and Cobb don’t cut it.
While we wait for Luciano, Pomares, Matos, Schmidt, Vaun Brown, Roby, Bishop and others what do they do?
Off the top of my head……
Starting pitching and offense are not the problem (SF is ranked #1 in MLB in starting pitching in a metric noted in a recent The Athletic article). Unfortunately, defense and bullpen were both rated in the bottom 5 in MLB.
When asked about what can be done to improve the D, Zaidi acknowledged that lack of range is a problem that can only be solved by playing guys who can get to the grounders that are currently getting through to the OF. Otherwise, it is all about making the routine plays. Reading between the lines, I think we will see some big changes on the infield next year. It wouldn’t surprise me to see the Giants with a new 1B and 3B. Crawford is signed through next year so his departure will occur after 2023. I’m not sure about Estrada. He is very inconsistent.
In addition, the OF needs an injection of athleticism in LF. Peterson/Ruf are DH’s masquerading as OF’s.
Going into the season, I think the Giants felt they could get by with an older, slower team by outpitching/outhitting the opposition. They had no illusions they were a team full of Brooks Robinsons.
Unfortunately, the D has been far worse than expected.
As for the bullpen, where does one start. In a nutshell, it has been a mess. Lex did a nice job of addressing the inconsistency from year to year.
And as Sabean used to say, you build a pitching staff from the back to the front. The Core Four was a perfect example of what he was talking about.
What to do?
Begin the transition to the next generation now.
#1 Find guys who are younger and have a history of demonstrated success getting to ground balls and can catch the damn ball when it is hit in the air.
#2 Find guys who can run.
#3 Open Johnson’s wallet and sign a big bat.
SF isn’t far from returning to glory. However, it will take making some courageous moves that may not be popular.
(07-22-2022, 07:04 AM)Phogge Wrote: Most anyone can lose the ball during twilight but Gonzalez is an adventure waiting to happen. Betts is an incomparable baseball player and with apologies to Trout perhaps the most valuable to his team in all of MLB. Has anyone seen him ever make a mistake?
Injuries have caused Belt to become overmatched at the plate. Hurray for the bunt single. You can’t resign him because he can’t stay healthy.
Who called the third breaking pitch to Alberto? Fastball up and out of the zone on two strikes was to me a no brainer. Rodon needs an effective third pitch.
Joey Bart had two T Ball sliders after he swung at a slider way away. Could’t do anything with them. He is still a multi year project and they still need a catcher.
And when you get down to actually advancing in the playoffs, regardless of how bad they are in the field and in the bullpen, they need a third starter. Junis, Wood and Cobb don’t cut it.
While we wait for Luciano, Pomares, Matos, Schmidt, Vaun Brown, Roby, Bishop and others what do they do?
Off the top of my head……
Starting pitching and offense are not the problem (SF is ranked #1 in MLB in starting pitching in a metric noted in a recent The Athletic article). Unfortunately, defense and bullpen were both rated in the bottom 5 in MLB.
When asked about what can be done to improve the D, Zaidi acknowledged that lack of range is a problem that can only be solved by playing guys who can get to the grounders that are currently getting through to the OF. Otherwise, it is all about making the routine plays. Reading between the lines, I think we will see some big changes on the infield next year. It wouldn’t surprise me to see the Giants with a new 1B and 3B. Crawford is signed through next year so his departure will occur after 2023. I’m not sure about Estrada. He is very inconsistent.
In addition, the OF needs an injection of athleticism in LF. Peterson/Ruf are DH’s masquerading as OF’s.
Going into the season, I think the Giants felt they could get by with an older, slower team by outpitching/outhitting the opposition. They had no illusions they were a team full of Brooks Robinsons.
Unfortunately, the D has been far worse than expected.
As for the bullpen, where does one start. In a nutshell, it has been a mess. Lex did a nice job of addressing the inconsistency from year to year.
And as Sabean used to say, you build a pitching staff from the back to the front. The Core Four was a perfect example of what he was talking about.
What to do?
Begin the transition to the next generation now.
#1 Find guys who are younger and have a history of demonstrated success getting to ground balls and can catch the damn ball when it is hit in the air.
#2 Find guys who can run.
#3 Open Johnson’s wallet and sign a big bat.
SF isn’t far from returning to glory. However, it will take making some courageous moves that may not be popular.
07-22-2022, 09:20 AM
I think the metric Giants is referring to is FIP. Guess who leads AL starters in FIP? Kevin Gausman……
07-22-2022, 09:21 AM
Sorry Giants but in the playoff season the Giants don't have a reliable third starter. Perhaps Cobb and Wood can get them through the race but not enough on the front end to win a five game series.
Dodgers, Padres, Cards, Mets, Brewers have enough SP's. Giants just don't, as Billy Beane says, "They just don't." Gonzalez in RF is a mess. Not just last night.
Dodgers, Padres, Cards, Mets, Brewers have enough SP's. Giants just don't, as Billy Beane says, "They just don't." Gonzalez in RF is a mess. Not just last night.
Sorry Giants but in the playoff season the Giants don't have a reliable third starter. Perhaps Cobb and Wood can get them through the race but not enough on the front end to win a five game series.
Dodgers, Padres, Cards, Mets, Brewers have enough SP's. Giants just don't, as Billy Beane says, "They just don't." Gonzalez in RF is a mess. Not just last night.
Dodgers, Padres, Cards, Mets, Brewers have enough SP's. Giants just don't, as Billy Beane says, "They just don't." Gonzalez in RF is a mess. Not just last night.
07-22-2022, 09:40 AM
Do the folks reading this thread not have a subscription to The Athletic, or just find the topic of how baseball is evolving boring?
https://theathletic.com/3434355/2022/07/...-outcomes/
https://theathletic.com/3434355/2022/07/...-outcomes/
Do the folks reading this thread not have a subscription to The Athletic, or just find the topic of how baseball is evolving boring?
https://theathletic.com/3434355/2022/07/...-outcomes/
https://theathletic.com/3434355/2022/07/...-outcomes/
(07-22-2022, 09:20 AM)lex24 Wrote: I think the metric Giants is referring to is FIP. Guess who leads AL starters in FIP? Kevin Gausman……
It wasn’t FIP. I just looked for the article but couldn’t find it. If I do locate it, I’ll post the name of the metric.
(07-22-2022, 09:21 AM)Phogge Wrote: Sorry Giants but in the playoff season the Giants don't have a reliable third starter. Perhaps Cobb and Wood can get them through the race but not enough on the front end to win a five game series.
Dodgers, Padres, Cards, Mets, Brewers have enough SP's. Giants just don't, as Billy Beane says, "They just don't." Gonzalez in RF is a mess. Not just last night.
Quite frankly, I think starting pitching may be the Dodgers weak link. I’ll take the Giants’ staff over LA’s in a heartbeat.
(07-22-2022, 09:20 AM)lex24 Wrote: I think the metric Giants is referring to is FIP. Guess who leads AL starters in FIP? Kevin Gausman……
It wasn’t FIP. I just looked for the article but couldn’t find it. If I do locate it, I’ll post the name of the metric.
(07-22-2022, 09:21 AM)Phogge Wrote: Sorry Giants but in the playoff season the Giants don't have a reliable third starter. Perhaps Cobb and Wood can get them through the race but not enough on the front end to win a five game series.
Dodgers, Padres, Cards, Mets, Brewers have enough SP's. Giants just don't, as Billy Beane says, "They just don't." Gonzalez in RF is a mess. Not just last night.
Quite frankly, I think starting pitching may be the Dodgers weak link. I’ll take the Giants’ staff over LA’s in a heartbeat.
07-22-2022, 10:37 AM
(07-22-2022, 09:51 AM)Giants Wrote:(07-22-2022, 09:20 AM)lex24 Wrote: I think the metric Giants is referring to is FIP. Guess who leads AL starters in FIP? Kevin Gausman……
It wasn’t FIP. I just looked for the article but couldn’t find it. If I do locate it, I’ll post the name of the metric.
(07-22-2022, 09:21 AM)Phogge Wrote: Sorry Giants but in the playoff season the Giants don't have a reliable third starter. Perhaps Cobb and Wood can get them through the race but not enough on the front end to win a five game series.
Dodgers, Padres, Cards, Mets, Brewers have enough SP's. Giants just don't, as Billy Beane says, "They just don't." Gonzalez in RF is a mess. Not just last night.
Quite frankly, I think starting pitching may be the Dodgers weak link. I’ll take the Giants’ staff over LA’s in a heartbeat.
Agree as of today. But Dustin May back soon. Buehler probably in Sept. Gonsolin and Anderson have saved their bacon. I believe both will come down to earth.
I expect Dodgers to get SP at deadline. Although I read an article suggesting they were not going to be as active this deadline. I’ll believe that when I see it. They have to be looking at Mets. If DeGrom gets back, they become the favorites.
(07-22-2022, 09:51 AM)Giants Wrote:(07-22-2022, 09:20 AM)lex24 Wrote: I think the metric Giants is referring to is FIP. Guess who leads AL starters in FIP? Kevin Gausman……
It wasn’t FIP. I just looked for the article but couldn’t find it. If I do locate it, I’ll post the name of the metric.
(07-22-2022, 09:21 AM)Phogge Wrote: Sorry Giants but in the playoff season the Giants don't have a reliable third starter. Perhaps Cobb and Wood can get them through the race but not enough on the front end to win a five game series.
Dodgers, Padres, Cards, Mets, Brewers have enough SP's. Giants just don't, as Billy Beane says, "They just don't." Gonzalez in RF is a mess. Not just last night.
Quite frankly, I think starting pitching may be the Dodgers weak link. I’ll take the Giants’ staff over LA’s in a heartbeat.
Agree as of today. But Dustin May back soon. Buehler probably in Sept. Gonsolin and Anderson have saved their bacon. I believe both will come down to earth.
I expect Dodgers to get SP at deadline. Although I read an article suggesting they were not going to be as active this deadline. I’ll believe that when I see it. They have to be looking at Mets. If DeGrom gets back, they become the favorites.
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