[Snorlax94]

Presumably the incredibly predictable wildcat call with Daniels on a makeable third-and-medium.

Keep McKee in and the defense has to respect the possibility of a pass.

Put in Daniels and Oregon State knows exactly what the play is. It is like handing them the game. How many times has Shaw lost games in exactly this way? He keeps thinking his numerical advantage or execution can beat telling the defenses exactly what you are going to do, without realizing that when teams like the 49ers did it, they at least had the threat of doing something different keeping the opposing team honest. It is that taking candy from a baby moment like during the Michigan State Rose Bowl.

Any different views? I don’t want “everything.” But is there a differing view on the exact, specific avoidable failure that could have avoided that loss.

[Snorlax94]

Presumably the incredibly predictable wildcat call with Daniels on a makeable third-and-medium.

Keep McKee in and the defense has to respect the possibility of a pass.

Put in Daniels and Oregon State knows exactly what the play is. It is like handing them the game. How many times has Shaw lost games in exactly this way? He keeps thinking his numerical advantage or execution can beat telling the defenses exactly what you are going to do, without realizing that when teams like the 49ers did it, they at least had the threat of doing something different keeping the opposing team honest. It is that taking candy from a baby moment like during the Michigan State Rose Bowl.

Any different views? I don’t want “everything.” But is there a differing view on the exact, specific avoidable failure that could have avoided that loss.

[martyup]

Totally agree. Also, on our last drive we didn't milk the clock as much as we could have.

[martyup]

Totally agree. Also, on our last drive we didn't milk the clock as much as we could have.

[CowboyIndian]

Presumably the incredibly predictable wildcat call with Daniels on a makeable third-and-medium.

Keep McKee in and the defense has to respect the possibility of a pass.

Put in Daniels and Oregon State knows exactly what the play is. It is like handing them the game. How many times has Shaw lost games in exactly this way? He keeps thinking his numerical advantage or execution can beat telling the defenses exactly what you are going to do, without realizing that when teams like the 49ers did it, they at least had the threat of doing something different keeping the opposing team honest. It is that taking candy from a baby moment like during the Michigan State Rose Bowl.

Any different views? I don’t want “everything.” But is there a differing view on the exact, specific avoidable failure that could have avoided that loss.

4 straight 3 and outs, I believe, in the 3rd and 4th Qs. I think the D was tired, not that I believe that's an excuse but they got no help from the O late in the game.

[CowboyIndian]

Presumably the incredibly predictable wildcat call with Daniels on a makeable third-and-medium.

Keep McKee in and the defense has to respect the possibility of a pass.

Put in Daniels and Oregon State knows exactly what the play is. It is like handing them the game. How many times has Shaw lost games in exactly this way? He keeps thinking his numerical advantage or execution can beat telling the defenses exactly what you are going to do, without realizing that when teams like the 49ers did it, they at least had the threat of doing something different keeping the opposing team honest. It is that taking candy from a baby moment like during the Michigan State Rose Bowl.

Any different views? I don’t want “everything.” But is there a differing view on the exact, specific avoidable failure that could have avoided that loss.

4 straight 3 and outs, I believe, in the 3rd and 4th Qs. I think the D was tired, not that I believe that's an excuse but they got no help from the O late in the game.

[martyup]

With our defense, we can't expect to win games by scoring 27 points.

[martyup]

With our defense, we can't expect to win games by scoring 27 points.

[Phogge]

Agree with both of you although the defining moment may have been not choosing Fangio or Roman in 2011.

[Phogge]

Agree with both of you although the defining moment may have been not choosing Fangio or Roman in 2011.

[d4cohn]

We still should have won with 27. #24 is literally standing there, thinking the ball had fallen incomplete or something.
The angle was terrible, and then the effort in standing there and giving the WR the end zone was very poor. 

That last play was complacency and effort, not talent or X's and O's.

[d4cohn]

We still should have won with 27. #24 is literally standing there, thinking the ball had fallen incomplete or something.
The angle was terrible, and then the effort in standing there and giving the WR the end zone was very poor. 

That last play was complacency and effort, not talent or X's and O's.

[Canalejas]

And that wasn't even the only odd moment of complacency. Why isn't it maximum effort all of the time?

[Canalejas]

And that wasn't even the only odd moment of complacency. Why isn't it maximum effort all of the time?

[JJJ]

There were so many things that could’ve gone wrong (for OSU) on that last play that didn’t. If Bonner had turned his head and seen the ball, or had reacted just a little afterwards and impeded further progress, or if help defenders came to slow/stop the TD…we had it won…until we didn’t. Which hurts even more.

[JJJ]

There were so many things that could’ve gone wrong (for OSU) on that last play that didn’t. If Bonner had turned his head and seen the ball, or had reacted just a little afterwards and impeded further progress, or if help defenders came to slow/stop the TD…we had it won…until we didn’t. Which hurts even more.

[BostonCard]

Presumably the incredibly predictable wildcat call with Daniels on a makeable third-and-medium.

Keep McKee in and the defense has to respect the possibility of a pass.

Put in Daniels and Oregon State knows exactly what the play is. It is like handing them the game. How many times has Shaw lost games in exactly this way? He keeps thinking his numerical advantage or execution can beat telling the defenses exactly what you are going to do, without realizing that when teams like the 49ers did it, they at least had the threat of doing something different keeping the opposing team honest. It is that taking candy from a baby moment like during the Michigan State Rose Bowl.

Any different views? I don’t want “everything.” But is there a differing view on the exact, specific avoidable failure that could have avoided that loss.

Well, they would have had first and 10 with 18 seconds left at the Stanford 35, having to score a touchdown, but for the incredibly bonehead play by Bonner and Fields.

BC

---

4 straight 3 and outs, I believe, in the 3rd and 4th Qs. I think the D was tired, not that I believe that's an excuse but they got no help from the O late in the game.

No, we had two three and outs, then a four play touchdown drive, then a seven play drive where we punted, a three and out, and then an 11 play drive that ended in a field goal.

BC

[BostonCard]

Presumably the incredibly predictable wildcat call with Daniels on a makeable third-and-medium.

Keep McKee in and the defense has to respect the possibility of a pass.

Put in Daniels and Oregon State knows exactly what the play is. It is like handing them the game. How many times has Shaw lost games in exactly this way? He keeps thinking his numerical advantage or execution can beat telling the defenses exactly what you are going to do, without realizing that when teams like the 49ers did it, they at least had the threat of doing something different keeping the opposing team honest. It is that taking candy from a baby moment like during the Michigan State Rose Bowl.

Any different views? I don’t want “everything.” But is there a differing view on the exact, specific avoidable failure that could have avoided that loss.

Well, they would have had first and 10 with 18 seconds left at the Stanford 35, having to score a touchdown, but for the incredibly bonehead play by Bonner and Fields.

BC

---

4 straight 3 and outs, I believe, in the 3rd and 4th Qs. I think the D was tired, not that I believe that's an excuse but they got no help from the O late in the game.

No, we had two three and outs, then a four play touchdown drive, then a seven play drive where we punted, a three and out, and then an 11 play drive that ended in a field goal.

BC

[mutoo1]

on stanford‘s last drive, there were at least 55 seconds which could and should have been milked from the clock.  

on oregon state’s last drive, they got the ball with 54 seconds left and no timeouts.

[mutoo1]

on stanford‘s last drive, there were at least 55 seconds which could and should have been milked from the clock.  

on oregon state’s last drive, they got the ball with 54 seconds left and no timeouts.

[Jamesy]

Not burning enough time on the last drive. Snapped the ball with way too much time left especially early in the drive.

[Jamesy]

Not burning enough time on the last drive. Snapped the ball with way too much time left especially early in the drive.

[Austroturf]

I frankly didn't think we would win this game; but when we were up 24-22 and driving near the red zone, I had visions of 2-3 and climbing out of the Pac-12 cellar.  

Then I recalled the UW and Wazzu losses last year and thought: I've seen this movie before.  What if this drive stalls and we only get 3 points to go up 27-22.  OSU then gets the ball with about a minute, drives the length of the field and wins. 

Since it's morning over here, I went to take a shower, came back and, presto, exactly this scenario played out.  

The exact moment we lost the game? Yes, probably getting too conservative in that last series of downs and telegraphing the wildcat.  That was so Shaw-like it hurts.  Another streak comes to an end (Stanford wins vs. OSU at home).

[Austroturf]

I frankly didn't think we would win this game; but when we were up 24-22 and driving near the red zone, I had visions of 2-3 and climbing out of the Pac-12 cellar.  

Then I recalled the UW and Wazzu losses last year and thought: I've seen this movie before.  What if this drive stalls and we only get 3 points to go up 27-22.  OSU then gets the ball with about a minute, drives the length of the field and wins. 

Since it's morning over here, I went to take a shower, came back and, presto, exactly this scenario played out.  

The exact moment we lost the game? Yes, probably getting too conservative in that last series of downs and telegraphing the wildcat.  That was so Shaw-like it hurts.  Another streak comes to an end (Stanford wins vs. OSU at home).

[JohnR34231]

I frankly didn't think we would win this game; but when we were up 24-22 and driving near the red zone, I had visions of 2-3 and climbing out of the Pac-12 cellar.  

Then I recalled the UW and Wazzu losses last year and thought: I've seen this movie before.  What if this drive stalls and we only get 3 points to go up 27-22.  OSU then gets the ball with about a minute, drives the length of the field and wins. 

Since it's morning over here, I went to take a shower, came back and, presto, exactly this scenario played out.  

The exact moment we lost the game? Yes, probably getting too conservative in that last series of downs and telegraphing the wildcat.  That was so Shaw-like it hurts.  Another streak comes to an end (Stanford wins vs. OSU at home).

Yep, very much like those two games last year. Both the offense and the defense had a chance to win the game for us in the waning moments and neither could get it done. Now that ASU seems to be getting it together it is hard to see any wins remaining on our schedule.
Another streak that appears to be in real jeopardy is that we haven't lost to UCLA in the Rose Bowl since 2008.

[JohnR34231]

I frankly didn't think we would win this game; but when we were up 24-22 and driving near the red zone, I had visions of 2-3 and climbing out of the Pac-12 cellar.  

Then I recalled the UW and Wazzu losses last year and thought: I've seen this movie before.  What if this drive stalls and we only get 3 points to go up 27-22.  OSU then gets the ball with about a minute, drives the length of the field and wins. 

Since it's morning over here, I went to take a shower, came back and, presto, exactly this scenario played out.  

The exact moment we lost the game? Yes, probably getting too conservative in that last series of downs and telegraphing the wildcat.  That was so Shaw-like it hurts.  Another streak comes to an end (Stanford wins vs. OSU at home).

Yep, very much like those two games last year. Both the offense and the defense had a chance to win the game for us in the waning moments and neither could get it done. Now that ASU seems to be getting it together it is hard to see any wins remaining on our schedule.
Another streak that appears to be in real jeopardy is that we haven't lost to UCLA in the Rose Bowl since 2008.

[JustAnotherFan]

Yup. The past two seasons have been nothing but depressing, but the silver lining is that people are letting go of the excuses for Shaw and that suggests that better days are possible. If the administration cares, that is.

Agree with both of you although the defining moment may have been not choosing Fangio or Roman in 2011.

[JustAnotherFan]

Yup. The past two seasons have been nothing but depressing, but the silver lining is that people are letting go of the excuses for Shaw and that suggests that better days are possible. If the administration cares, that is.

Agree with both of you although the defining moment may have been not choosing Fangio or Roman in 2011.

[StanfordMatt]

Agree with both of you although the defining moment may have been not choosing Fangio or Roman in 2011.

I really don’t understand this argument. Yes, Shaw is terrible now and the time has come for him to go (although it won’t happen anytime soon). But Shaw is also responsible for directing several of the best seasons in program history. There’s no guarantee and I’d actually argue that it’s highly unlikely that Fangio or Roman would have been able to replicate Shaw’s early success. Shaw was the right choice at the right time for the job. The state of the program at the time was such that it accentuated his strengths and minimized his weaknesses. Over the long haul, the state of the program has changed such that his weaknesses are exposed for all to see. But our current struggles are a price I’d gladly pay 10 times out of 10 for the euphoria of the Rose Bowls we experienced.

[StanfordMatt]

Agree with both of you although the defining moment may have been not choosing Fangio or Roman in 2011.

I really don’t understand this argument. Yes, Shaw is terrible now and the time has come for him to go (although it won’t happen anytime soon). But Shaw is also responsible for directing several of the best seasons in program history. There’s no guarantee and I’d actually argue that it’s highly unlikely that Fangio or Roman would have been able to replicate Shaw’s early success. Shaw was the right choice at the right time for the job. The state of the program at the time was such that it accentuated his strengths and minimized his weaknesses. Over the long haul, the state of the program has changed such that his weaknesses are exposed for all to see. But our current struggles are a price I’d gladly pay 10 times out of 10 for the euphoria of the Rose Bowls we experienced.

[JohnR34231]

Agree with both of you although the defining moment may have been not choosing Fangio or Roman in 2011.

I really don’t understand this argument. Yes, Shaw is terrible now and the time has come for him to go (although it won’t happen anytime soon). But Shaw is also responsible for directing several of the best seasons in program history. There’s no guarantee and I’d actually argue that it’s highly unlikely that Fangio or Roman would have been able to replicate Shaw’s early success. Shaw was the right choice at the right time for the job. The state of the program at the time was such that it accentuated his strengths and minimized his weaknesses. Over the long haul, the state of the program has changed such that his weaknesses are exposed for all to see. But our current struggles are a price I’d gladly pay 10 times out of 10 for the euphoria of the Rose Bowls we experienced.

If you are a true Shaw boo-bird you think that Harbaugh left such a treasure chest that any coach worth his salt could have accomplished what Shaw did from 2011-2015. That's BS of course, but some people have convinced themselves that it is true,

[JohnR34231]

Agree with both of you although the defining moment may have been not choosing Fangio or Roman in 2011.

I really don’t understand this argument. Yes, Shaw is terrible now and the time has come for him to go (although it won’t happen anytime soon). But Shaw is also responsible for directing several of the best seasons in program history. There’s no guarantee and I’d actually argue that it’s highly unlikely that Fangio or Roman would have been able to replicate Shaw’s early success. Shaw was the right choice at the right time for the job. The state of the program at the time was such that it accentuated his strengths and minimized his weaknesses. Over the long haul, the state of the program has changed such that his weaknesses are exposed for all to see. But our current struggles are a price I’d gladly pay 10 times out of 10 for the euphoria of the Rose Bowls we experienced.

If you are a true Shaw boo-bird you think that Harbaugh left such a treasure chest that any coach worth his salt could have accomplished what Shaw did from 2011-2015. That's BS of course, but some people have convinced themselves that it is true,

[Austroturf]

Agree with both of you although the defining moment may have been not choosing Fangio or Roman in 2011.

I really don’t understand this argument. Yes, Shaw is terrible now and the time has come for him to go (although it won’t happen anytime soon). But Shaw is also responsible for directing several of the best seasons in program history. There’s no guarantee and I’d actually argue that it’s highly unlikely that Fangio or Roman would have been able to replicate Shaw’s early success. Shaw was the right choice at the right time for the job. The state of the program at the time was such that it accentuated his strengths and minimized his weaknesses. Over the long haul, the state of the program has changed such that his weaknesses are exposed for all to see. But our current struggles are a price I’d gladly pay 10 times out of 10 for the euphoria of the Rose Bowls we experienced.

If you are a true Shaw boo-bird you think that Harbaugh left such a treasure chest that any coach worth his salt could have accomplished what Shaw did from 2011-2015. That's BS of course, but some people have convinced themselves that it is true,

I also agree that Shaw was the right pick at the time.  He took Harbaugh's players and system and got spectacular results during his first five seasons.  The problem is that there were visible cracks in the foundation as early as the 2016 and 2017 seasons (despite our winning the North in 2017).  The trends were not good; the numbers pointed toward decline across the board.  And once rot sets in, the descent can be rapid (as we finally discovered in 2019).

Though I would assert that Wisconsin, for example, shot too early in firing Chryst this season, the administration at Stanford (and David Shaw) have let this downward process go on for far too long; and getting out of this morass will be a painful, multi-year process for any successor who takes on the turnaround project.  Shaw's ultimate failing is that he allowed the coaching staff to degrade during his tenure and never held his lieutenants accountable for their performance.

[Austroturf]

Agree with both of you although the defining moment may have been not choosing Fangio or Roman in 2011.

I really don’t understand this argument. Yes, Shaw is terrible now and the time has come for him to go (although it won’t happen anytime soon). But Shaw is also responsible for directing several of the best seasons in program history. There’s no guarantee and I’d actually argue that it’s highly unlikely that Fangio or Roman would have been able to replicate Shaw’s early success. Shaw was the right choice at the right time for the job. The state of the program at the time was such that it accentuated his strengths and minimized his weaknesses. Over the long haul, the state of the program has changed such that his weaknesses are exposed for all to see. But our current struggles are a price I’d gladly pay 10 times out of 10 for the euphoria of the Rose Bowls we experienced.

If you are a true Shaw boo-bird you think that Harbaugh left such a treasure chest that any coach worth his salt could have accomplished what Shaw did from 2011-2015. That's BS of course, but some people have convinced themselves that it is true,

I also agree that Shaw was the right pick at the time.  He took Harbaugh's players and system and got spectacular results during his first five seasons.  The problem is that there were visible cracks in the foundation as early as the 2016 and 2017 seasons (despite our winning the North in 2017).  The trends were not good; the numbers pointed toward decline across the board.  And once rot sets in, the descent can be rapid (as we finally discovered in 2019).

Though I would assert that Wisconsin, for example, shot too early in firing Chryst this season, the administration at Stanford (and David Shaw) have let this downward process go on for far too long; and getting out of this morass will be a painful, multi-year process for any successor who takes on the turnaround project.  Shaw's ultimate failing is that he allowed the coaching staff to degrade during his tenure and never held his lieutenants accountable for their performance.

[gailtate]

Presumably the incredibly predictable wildcat call with Daniels on a makeable third-and-medium.

Keep McKee in and the defense has to respect the possibility of a pass.

Put in Daniels and Oregon State knows exactly what the play is. It is like handing them the game. How many times has Shaw lost games in exactly this way? He keeps thinking his numerical advantage or execution can beat telling the defenses exactly what you are going to do, without realizing that when teams like the 49ers did it, they at least had the threat of doing something different keeping the opposing team honest. It is that taking candy from a baby moment like during the Michigan State Rose Bowl.

Any different views? I don’t want “everything.” But is there a differing view on the exact, specific avoidable failure that could have avoided that loss.

It comes down to Shaw. The guy is just not getting it done. In all phases. He's dragging down his own program. Feel bad for the players. You know, the guys he professes to love?

---

Agree with both of you although the defining moment may have been not choosing Fangio or Roman in 2011.

I really don’t understand this argument. Yes, Shaw is terrible now and the time has come for him to go (although it won’t happen anytime soon). But Shaw is also responsible for directing several of the best seasons in program history. There’s no guarantee and I’d actually argue that it’s highly unlikely that Fangio or Roman would have been able to replicate Shaw’s early success. Shaw was the right choice at the right time for the job. The state of the program at the time was such that it accentuated his strengths and minimized his weaknesses. Over the long haul, the state of the program has changed such that his weaknesses are exposed for all to see. But our current struggles are a price I’d gladly pay 10 times out of 10 for the euphoria of the Rose Bowls we experienced.

"Live in the past, die in the past."
--Mike Ditka

[gailtate]

Presumably the incredibly predictable wildcat call with Daniels on a makeable third-and-medium.

Keep McKee in and the defense has to respect the possibility of a pass.

Put in Daniels and Oregon State knows exactly what the play is. It is like handing them the game. How many times has Shaw lost games in exactly this way? He keeps thinking his numerical advantage or execution can beat telling the defenses exactly what you are going to do, without realizing that when teams like the 49ers did it, they at least had the threat of doing something different keeping the opposing team honest. It is that taking candy from a baby moment like during the Michigan State Rose Bowl.

Any different views? I don’t want “everything.” But is there a differing view on the exact, specific avoidable failure that could have avoided that loss.

It comes down to Shaw. The guy is just not getting it done. In all phases. He's dragging down his own program. Feel bad for the players. You know, the guys he professes to love?

---

Agree with both of you although the defining moment may have been not choosing Fangio or Roman in 2011.

I really don’t understand this argument. Yes, Shaw is terrible now and the time has come for him to go (although it won’t happen anytime soon). But Shaw is also responsible for directing several of the best seasons in program history. There’s no guarantee and I’d actually argue that it’s highly unlikely that Fangio or Roman would have been able to replicate Shaw’s early success. Shaw was the right choice at the right time for the job. The state of the program at the time was such that it accentuated his strengths and minimized his weaknesses. Over the long haul, the state of the program has changed such that his weaknesses are exposed for all to see. But our current struggles are a price I’d gladly pay 10 times out of 10 for the euphoria of the Rose Bowls we experienced.

"Live in the past, die in the past."
--Mike Ditka

[thunder_chik]

It's totally my fault.  After we kicked the field goal, I went over to the wall calendar to write in "W, 27-22".  It crossed my mind that I was tempting the woofing gods...

I was certain that the Beavs, with less than a minute to play, no time outs and needing a TD, were going to lose.  Maybe our entire team was thinking the same thing, already celebrating a victory in their imaginations, and they just lost concentration in those final seconds of the game.

[thunder_chik]

It's totally my fault.  After we kicked the field goal, I went over to the wall calendar to write in "W, 27-22".  It crossed my mind that I was tempting the woofing gods...

I was certain that the Beavs, with less than a minute to play, no time outs and needing a TD, were going to lose.  Maybe our entire team was thinking the same thing, already celebrating a victory in their imaginations, and they just lost concentration in those final seconds of the game.

[PVTree]

When we were offsides on their missed FG attempt. Gave them 5 yards, a new attempt, and 3 points. At the time, I told my friend that those 3 points may come back to hunt us.

They don't make it, and we keep the 10 point lead.

[PVTree]

When we were offsides on their missed FG attempt. Gave them 5 yards, a new attempt, and 3 points. At the time, I told my friend that those 3 points may come back to hunt us.

They don't make it, and we keep the 10 point lead.