[OutsiderFan]

Why does the SEC need the rest of the NCAA schools?

We are not that very far away from the SEC holding the national championship in:

- Football (UGA), Baseball (Miss. State), MBB (Alabama), WBB (South Carolina), and Softball (Oklahoma)*, all the sports that get on national TV with regularity.
* To join SEC in 2024, now #1 and a dynasty at the moment

Given the "sports first" focus of the SEC, should the rest of the NCAA schools just break away from the SEC, and they have their own selfish reasons for wanting away from each other? 

Out of the Top 25 in Baseball today, the SEC has 10 ranked teams, and that doesn't include Oklahoma and Texas who more often than not are in the Top 25.  That would mean basically half the Top 25 being SEC teams.  

Do any of the rest of y'all feel like the SEC is becoming more separated from the rest of the NCAA because it has emphasized sports so much that it has gained an unfair competitive advantage over everyone else?  I personally don't think schools that don't have aligned values should be competing against each other at the same level, operating with such resource disparities. Curious about what others think about this.

[OutsiderFan]

Why does the SEC need the rest of the NCAA schools?

We are not that very far away from the SEC holding the national championship in:

- Football (UGA), Baseball (Miss. State), MBB (Alabama), WBB (South Carolina), and Softball (Oklahoma)*, all the sports that get on national TV with regularity.
* To join SEC in 2024, now #1 and a dynasty at the moment

Given the "sports first" focus of the SEC, should the rest of the NCAA schools just break away from the SEC, and they have their own selfish reasons for wanting away from each other? 

Out of the Top 25 in Baseball today, the SEC has 10 ranked teams, and that doesn't include Oklahoma and Texas who more often than not are in the Top 25.  That would mean basically half the Top 25 being SEC teams.  

Do any of the rest of y'all feel like the SEC is becoming more separated from the rest of the NCAA because it has emphasized sports so much that it has gained an unfair competitive advantage over everyone else?  I personally don't think schools that don't have aligned values should be competing against each other at the same level, operating with such resource disparities. Curious about what others think about this.

[BostonCard]

I may have tuned out after Stanford was upset, but last I checked the NCAA tournament was still going on in both men's and women's basketball, and while South Carolina is the defending champion (and favorite), the defending champion on the men's side is Kansas, which, last I checked was not in the SEC (at least not yet).

BC

[BostonCard]

I may have tuned out after Stanford was upset, but last I checked the NCAA tournament was still going on in both men's and women's basketball, and while South Carolina is the defending champion (and favorite), the defending champion on the men's side is Kansas, which, last I checked was not in the SEC (at least not yet).

BC

[Spiny_Norman]

I think OF is projecting Alabama as this year's MBB champ as the overall top seed.

But it is a valid point that the SEC is a dominant conference in some major sports. In baseball, 4 different SEC schools have won 4 of the last 5 championships and also finished runner up 3 times (4 if you include Oklahoma). In football, SEC teams have won 13 of the last 17.

The SEC has had good programs that are nationally competitive in other sports, e.g., South Carolina in WBB, Kentucky won a WVB NC several years ago. But they don't dominate those sports as a conference.

Still I think that it's clear that the SEC is leveraging its football success to generate revenue that it is using to build up its other sports. Does this mean that it is accelerating away from the rest of Division 1 athletics at an accelerating rate? In football, likely. Baseball too. We'll see about other sports.

I do think that college football has a real problem of competitive imbalance. The money that the SEC and Big 10 generate is so much more than the ACC, Big 12 and P12/10, that the latter conferences will never catch up. I could see the FCS breaking apart into several different divisions. Base it on the head coach's salary. There will be the $1-5M Division, the $5-10M Division and the $10+ Division.

[Spiny_Norman]

I think OF is projecting Alabama as this year's MBB champ as the overall top seed.

But it is a valid point that the SEC is a dominant conference in some major sports. In baseball, 4 different SEC schools have won 4 of the last 5 championships and also finished runner up 3 times (4 if you include Oklahoma). In football, SEC teams have won 13 of the last 17.

The SEC has had good programs that are nationally competitive in other sports, e.g., South Carolina in WBB, Kentucky won a WVB NC several years ago. But they don't dominate those sports as a conference.

Still I think that it's clear that the SEC is leveraging its football success to generate revenue that it is using to build up its other sports. Does this mean that it is accelerating away from the rest of Division 1 athletics at an accelerating rate? In football, likely. Baseball too. We'll see about other sports.

I do think that college football has a real problem of competitive imbalance. The money that the SEC and Big 10 generate is so much more than the ACC, Big 12 and P12/10, that the latter conferences will never catch up. I could see the FCS breaking apart into several different divisions. Base it on the head coach's salary. There will be the $1-5M Division, the $5-10M Division and the $10+ Division.

[cardcrimson]

Do any of the rest of y'all feel like the SEC is becoming more separated from the rest of the NCAA because it has emphasized sports so much that it has gained an unfair competitive advantage over everyone else?  I personally don't think schools that don't have aligned values should be competing against each other at the same level, operating with such resource disparities. Curious about what others think about this.

First, I think you're stating a belief that the schools in the SEC emphasize sports over perhaps academics as compared to schools in other conferences. I'd love to see proof of that. I know for a fact that schools in the SEC are pushing academics very hard, and the schools are improving. Even with the population growth in the South, more and more out of state students are attending SEC schools than ever before, Georgia for example is up 30%; Alabama is up 400% in out of state enrollment.

Aligned values? What values are those? Do you think Stanford and Arizona State have aligned values?

Resource disparities? Last I checked Harvard's endowment is larger than Stanfords. For the most part, the schools in the SEC are state funded and several are land-grant schools, all somewhat constrained financially.

I think part of the SECs recent success in baseball/football/basketball is two fold. First of all the Southeast is has seen tremendous economic growth, and has for the last twenty years. With that, has been population growth. So a larger population with more disposable income and larger state coffers. Second is the fan base. They actually care about the schools and the teams. While attendance is dropping in the SEC, I don't think it's by the extent that's occurring across the country. People still go to games.

[cardcrimson]

Do any of the rest of y'all feel like the SEC is becoming more separated from the rest of the NCAA because it has emphasized sports so much that it has gained an unfair competitive advantage over everyone else?  I personally don't think schools that don't have aligned values should be competing against each other at the same level, operating with such resource disparities. Curious about what others think about this.

First, I think you're stating a belief that the schools in the SEC emphasize sports over perhaps academics as compared to schools in other conferences. I'd love to see proof of that. I know for a fact that schools in the SEC are pushing academics very hard, and the schools are improving. Even with the population growth in the South, more and more out of state students are attending SEC schools than ever before, Georgia for example is up 30%; Alabama is up 400% in out of state enrollment.

Aligned values? What values are those? Do you think Stanford and Arizona State have aligned values?

Resource disparities? Last I checked Harvard's endowment is larger than Stanfords. For the most part, the schools in the SEC are state funded and several are land-grant schools, all somewhat constrained financially.

I think part of the SECs recent success in baseball/football/basketball is two fold. First of all the Southeast is has seen tremendous economic growth, and has for the last twenty years. With that, has been population growth. So a larger population with more disposable income and larger state coffers. Second is the fan base. They actually care about the schools and the teams. While attendance is dropping in the SEC, I don't think it's by the extent that's occurring across the country. People still go to games.

[Giants]

2022 SEC football attendance was up by 6.2% year over year.  Once they go to a 9 game conference schedule (after TX and OK join the league), I think attendance will jump substantially.

The SEC dominates college athletics because they function so effectively as a conference.  As competitive as they are within their league, they understand the value of the conference brand.  Kramer, Slive and now Sankey set the tone and membership produces the results. 

Conversely, the P-12/10 has never figured out this concept.  They have functioned as 12 now 10 disparate entities with an inability to understand the big picture - a house divided cannot stand.  IMO, the Presidents/Chancellors are responsible - in essence, they don’t give a damn.

[Giants]

2022 SEC football attendance was up by 6.2% year over year.  Once they go to a 9 game conference schedule (after TX and OK join the league), I think attendance will jump substantially.

The SEC dominates college athletics because they function so effectively as a conference.  As competitive as they are within their league, they understand the value of the conference brand.  Kramer, Slive and now Sankey set the tone and membership produces the results. 

Conversely, the P-12/10 has never figured out this concept.  They have functioned as 12 now 10 disparate entities with an inability to understand the big picture - a house divided cannot stand.  IMO, the Presidents/Chancellors are responsible - in essence, they don’t give a damn.

[BostonCard]

We are not that very far away from the SEC holding the national championship in:

- Football (UGA), Baseball (Miss. State), MBB (Alabama), WBB (South Carolina), and Softball (Oklahoma)*, all the sports that get on national TV with regularity.

Aged like milk.  As it turns out, no SEC team made it to the elite eight, after Arkansas and Tennessee lost yesterday, and Alabama went down today.  To be fair, future SEC member Texas is still in it (and on pace to beat Xavier).

On the women's side, it's looking better for the SEC as LSU beat Utah to make it to the Elite Eight, while Ole Miss is down 10 to Louisville going into the fourth quarter. South Carolina and Tennessee play tomorrow.

BC

[BostonCard]

We are not that very far away from the SEC holding the national championship in:

- Football (UGA), Baseball (Miss. State), MBB (Alabama), WBB (South Carolina), and Softball (Oklahoma)*, all the sports that get on national TV with regularity.

Aged like milk.  As it turns out, no SEC team made it to the elite eight, after Arkansas and Tennessee lost yesterday, and Alabama went down today.  To be fair, future SEC member Texas is still in it (and on pace to beat Xavier).

On the women's side, it's looking better for the SEC as LSU beat Utah to make it to the Elite Eight, while Ole Miss is down 10 to Louisville going into the fourth quarter. South Carolina and Tennessee play tomorrow.

BC

[cardcrimson]

We are not that very far away from the SEC holding the national championship in:

- Football (UGA), Baseball (Miss. State), MBB (Alabama), WBB (South Carolina), and Softball (Oklahoma)*, all the sports that get on national TV with regularity.

Aged like milk.  As it turns out, no SEC team made it to the elite eight, after Arkansas and Tennessee lost yesterday, and Alabama went down today.  To be fair, future SEC member Texas is still in it (and on pace to beat Xavier).

On the women's side, it's looking better for the SEC as LSU beat Utah to make it to the Elite Eight, while Ole Miss is down 10 to Louisville going into the fourth quarter. South Carolina and Tennessee play tomorrow.

BC

Gee, thanks BC. Aged like milk? It's a tough night in this household. I blame Saban. . . . 

For what it's worth, I buy only Ultra Pasteurized milk these days. A buck more a half gallon, and lasts in the fridge for a couple of months.

[cardcrimson]

We are not that very far away from the SEC holding the national championship in:

- Football (UGA), Baseball (Miss. State), MBB (Alabama), WBB (South Carolina), and Softball (Oklahoma)*, all the sports that get on national TV with regularity.

Aged like milk.  As it turns out, no SEC team made it to the elite eight, after Arkansas and Tennessee lost yesterday, and Alabama went down today.  To be fair, future SEC member Texas is still in it (and on pace to beat Xavier).

On the women's side, it's looking better for the SEC as LSU beat Utah to make it to the Elite Eight, while Ole Miss is down 10 to Louisville going into the fourth quarter. South Carolina and Tennessee play tomorrow.

BC

Gee, thanks BC. Aged like milk? It's a tough night in this household. I blame Saban. . . . 

For what it's worth, I buy only Ultra Pasteurized milk these days. A buck more a half gallon, and lasts in the fridge for a couple of months.

[Hieronymus]

We are not that very far away from the SEC holding the national championship in:

- Football (UGA), Baseball (Miss. State), MBB (Alabama), WBB (South Carolina), and Softball (Oklahoma)*, all the sports that get on national TV with regularity.

Aged like milk.  As it turns out, no SEC team made it to the elite eight, after Arkansas and Tennessee lost yesterday, and Alabama went down today.  To be fair, future SEC member Texas is still in it (and on pace to beat Xavier).

On the women's side, it's looking better for the SEC as LSU beat Utah to make it to the Elite Eight, while Ole Miss is down 10 to Louisville going into the fourth quarter. South Carolina and Tennessee play tomorrow.

BC

And Ole Miss end up losing by in fact 10. Doesn’t improve the look of our loss. In fact they weren’t much better then their seed.

[Hieronymus]

We are not that very far away from the SEC holding the national championship in:

- Football (UGA), Baseball (Miss. State), MBB (Alabama), WBB (South Carolina), and Softball (Oklahoma)*, all the sports that get on national TV with regularity.

Aged like milk.  As it turns out, no SEC team made it to the elite eight, after Arkansas and Tennessee lost yesterday, and Alabama went down today.  To be fair, future SEC member Texas is still in it (and on pace to beat Xavier).

On the women's side, it's looking better for the SEC as LSU beat Utah to make it to the Elite Eight, while Ole Miss is down 10 to Louisville going into the fourth quarter. South Carolina and Tennessee play tomorrow.

BC

And Ole Miss end up losing by in fact 10. Doesn’t improve the look of our loss. In fact they weren’t much better then their seed.

[BostonCard]

Gee, thanks BC. Aged like milk? It's a tough night in this household. I blame Saban. . . . 

For what it's worth, I buy only Ultra Pasteurized milk these days. A buck more a half gallon, and lasts in the fridge for a couple of months.

Sorry my friend.  I just think it is really funny when certain posters loudly proclaim that such and such is going to happen, as proof of whatever their deeply held belief about sports, only to be proven wrong a mere three days later.  Maybe a little humility vis a vis the unpredictability of sports might be warranted.  After all, that unpredictability is a feature, not a bug (well, unless you are a fan of that #1 seed).

BC

[BostonCard]

Gee, thanks BC. Aged like milk? It's a tough night in this household. I blame Saban. . . . 

For what it's worth, I buy only Ultra Pasteurized milk these days. A buck more a half gallon, and lasts in the fridge for a couple of months.

Sorry my friend.  I just think it is really funny when certain posters loudly proclaim that such and such is going to happen, as proof of whatever their deeply held belief about sports, only to be proven wrong a mere three days later.  Maybe a little humility vis a vis the unpredictability of sports might be warranted.  After all, that unpredictability is a feature, not a bug (well, unless you are a fan of that #1 seed).

BC

[OutsiderFan]

Gee, thanks BC. Aged like milk? It's a tough night in this household. I blame Saban. . . . 

For what it's worth, I buy only Ultra Pasteurized milk these days. A buck more a half gallon, and lasts in the fridge for a couple of months.

Sorry my friend.  I just think it is really funny when certain posters loudly proclaim that such and such is going to happen, as proof of whatever their deeply held belief about sports, only to be proven wrong a mere three days later.  Maybe a little humility vis a vis the unpredictability of sports might be warranted.  After all, that unpredictability is a feature, not a bug (well, unless you are a fan of that #1 seed).

BC

NOW you know why I said the greatest driver of sports interest is uncertainty of outcome. And it's also why sports gambling is so lucrative. I don't bet on sports because I KNOW I can't accurately predict outcomes enough to avoid losing money in the end. I'm 9-2 picking the winner of the last 11 Warriors games, but if I did bet on these games I would have become overconfident and likely, made bigger bets thinking I could win more, and end up losing in the end.

As for the SEC, I still feel it should operate as its own thing separate from the NCAA. And I agree with whoever said there should be divisions of competition based on how much is spend on your sports program and maybe more specifically on coaches. Right now the only difference between FCS and FBS football is scholarship limits. FBS gets 85, FCS 63. It seems to me we need another bifurcation of FBS, and the SEC could easily poach say Michigan and Ohio State, Notre Dame, USC to join and who needs Wisconsin and Iowa? Maybe this is where it is all headed anyway, one conference of like 30-40 schools with virtual professional sports. I just see the SEC as leading the charge into hyper sports focus across all its members in a way other conferences simply don't, and in the end, I prefer people and organizations be aligned with those who share their values. 

Georgia's football ascension was predictable. It was a product of drastically increasing the budget for recruiting. I remember reading how they hired dozens of recruiting lead generators and doubled their staff, in addition to other investments in coaching staff and more. Schools that don't spend on par with Georgia shouldn't be competing at the same level in my opinion. You can say football is unique, but the money from football is going to filter into other sports to create greater competition disparities in them too. 

I don't think the SEC's dreadful MBB Sweet 16 performance undoes my point about the SEC operating at a different level. it's more about trends and where things are headed than the results of two competition days.

[OutsiderFan]

Gee, thanks BC. Aged like milk? It's a tough night in this household. I blame Saban. . . . 

For what it's worth, I buy only Ultra Pasteurized milk these days. A buck more a half gallon, and lasts in the fridge for a couple of months.

Sorry my friend.  I just think it is really funny when certain posters loudly proclaim that such and such is going to happen, as proof of whatever their deeply held belief about sports, only to be proven wrong a mere three days later.  Maybe a little humility vis a vis the unpredictability of sports might be warranted.  After all, that unpredictability is a feature, not a bug (well, unless you are a fan of that #1 seed).

BC

NOW you know why I said the greatest driver of sports interest is uncertainty of outcome. And it's also why sports gambling is so lucrative. I don't bet on sports because I KNOW I can't accurately predict outcomes enough to avoid losing money in the end. I'm 9-2 picking the winner of the last 11 Warriors games, but if I did bet on these games I would have become overconfident and likely, made bigger bets thinking I could win more, and end up losing in the end.

As for the SEC, I still feel it should operate as its own thing separate from the NCAA. And I agree with whoever said there should be divisions of competition based on how much is spend on your sports program and maybe more specifically on coaches. Right now the only difference between FCS and FBS football is scholarship limits. FBS gets 85, FCS 63. It seems to me we need another bifurcation of FBS, and the SEC could easily poach say Michigan and Ohio State, Notre Dame, USC to join and who needs Wisconsin and Iowa? Maybe this is where it is all headed anyway, one conference of like 30-40 schools with virtual professional sports. I just see the SEC as leading the charge into hyper sports focus across all its members in a way other conferences simply don't, and in the end, I prefer people and organizations be aligned with those who share their values. 

Georgia's football ascension was predictable. It was a product of drastically increasing the budget for recruiting. I remember reading how they hired dozens of recruiting lead generators and doubled their staff, in addition to other investments in coaching staff and more. Schools that don't spend on par with Georgia shouldn't be competing at the same level in my opinion. You can say football is unique, but the money from football is going to filter into other sports to create greater competition disparities in them too. 

I don't think the SEC's dreadful MBB Sweet 16 performance undoes my point about the SEC operating at a different level. it's more about trends and where things are headed than the results of two competition days.

[cardcrimson]

Gee, thanks BC. Aged like milk? It's a tough night in this household. I blame Saban. . . . 

For what it's worth, I buy only Ultra Pasteurized milk these days. A buck more a half gallon, and lasts in the fridge for a couple of months.

Sorry my friend.  I just think it is really funny when certain posters loudly proclaim that such and such is going to happen, as proof of whatever their deeply held belief about sports, only to be proven wrong a mere three days later.  Maybe a little humility vis a vis the unpredictability of sports might be warranted.  After all, that unpredictability is a feature, not a bug (well, unless you are a fan of that #1 seed).

BC

No worries, I knew Alabama was doomed after his guarantee . . . .

[cardcrimson]

Gee, thanks BC. Aged like milk? It's a tough night in this household. I blame Saban. . . . 

For what it's worth, I buy only Ultra Pasteurized milk these days. A buck more a half gallon, and lasts in the fridge for a couple of months.

Sorry my friend.  I just think it is really funny when certain posters loudly proclaim that such and such is going to happen, as proof of whatever their deeply held belief about sports, only to be proven wrong a mere three days later.  Maybe a little humility vis a vis the unpredictability of sports might be warranted.  After all, that unpredictability is a feature, not a bug (well, unless you are a fan of that #1 seed).

BC

No worries, I knew Alabama was doomed after his guarantee . . . .