[BobK]

So OF the Buck stops at the bottom. Strange dude

[BobK]

So OF the Buck stops at the bottom. Strange dude

[OutsiderFan]

So OF the Buck stops at the bottom. Strange dude

No, Bob. I have perspective. Nothing I've heard suggests Fitzgerald shirked responsibility for what happened. He seems to have been a scapegoat for something that embarrassed his employer. I'm not aware any of the embarrassing behavior involved laws being broken. The greater point is I certainly know young people do things behind the backs of their adult supervision as a matter of course. I guarantee you if the same information reached the NU President's desk without it being splashed all over the media, Fitzgerald would have been suspended for 2 weeks and nobody would know about why.  Kind of like how we never heard a peep about what got Shannon Turley removed at Stanford.

Why isn't the NU AD fired? Shouldn't the AD have set the standards for what the schools want from coaches and players in the department he oversees? I'd say why not the school President, but I understand he's relatively new on the job and the incidents didn't happen on his watch.

[OutsiderFan]

So OF the Buck stops at the bottom. Strange dude

No, Bob. I have perspective. Nothing I've heard suggests Fitzgerald shirked responsibility for what happened. He seems to have been a scapegoat for something that embarrassed his employer. I'm not aware any of the embarrassing behavior involved laws being broken. The greater point is I certainly know young people do things behind the backs of their adult supervision as a matter of course. I guarantee you if the same information reached the NU President's desk without it being splashed all over the media, Fitzgerald would have been suspended for 2 weeks and nobody would know about why.  Kind of like how we never heard a peep about what got Shannon Turley removed at Stanford.

Why isn't the NU AD fired? Shouldn't the AD have set the standards for what the schools want from coaches and players in the department he oversees? I'd say why not the school President, but I understand he's relatively new on the job and the incidents didn't happen on his watch.

[Jamesy]

So OF the Buck stops at the bottom. Strange dude

No, Bob. I have perspective. Nothing I've heard suggests Fitzgerald shirked responsibility for what happened. He seems to have been a scapegoat for something that embarrassed his employer. I'm not aware any of the embarrassing behavior involved laws being broken. The greater point is I certainly know young people do things behind the backs of their adult supervision as a matter of course. I guarantee you if the same information reached the NU President's desk without it being splashed all over the media, Fitzgerald would have been suspended for 2 weeks and nobody would know about why.  Kind of like how we never heard a peep about what got Shannon Turley removed at Stanford.

Why isn't the NU AD fired? Shouldn't the AD have set the standards for what the schools want from coaches and players in the department he oversees? I'd say why not the school President, but I understand he's relatively new on the job and the incidents didn't happen on his watch.

There is absolutely no comparison between what happened at NU and what Turley did at Stanford.

[Jamesy]

So OF the Buck stops at the bottom. Strange dude

No, Bob. I have perspective. Nothing I've heard suggests Fitzgerald shirked responsibility for what happened. He seems to have been a scapegoat for something that embarrassed his employer. I'm not aware any of the embarrassing behavior involved laws being broken. The greater point is I certainly know young people do things behind the backs of their adult supervision as a matter of course. I guarantee you if the same information reached the NU President's desk without it being splashed all over the media, Fitzgerald would have been suspended for 2 weeks and nobody would know about why.  Kind of like how we never heard a peep about what got Shannon Turley removed at Stanford.

Why isn't the NU AD fired? Shouldn't the AD have set the standards for what the schools want from coaches and players in the department he oversees? I'd say why not the school President, but I understand he's relatively new on the job and the incidents didn't happen on his watch.

There is absolutely no comparison between what happened at NU and what Turley did at Stanford.

[cctop]

A friend just told tell me her cousin let her know this weekend how his wife spent $40k on a boob job and cosmetic surgery behind his back, then he found she has multiple boyfriends and is going to Thailand to be an escort! Needless to say, they are divorcing.

You think you know people...

Since this thread is already labelled OT...

I'm surprised we all let this one slide. I have a prurient interest in learning more.

"Going to Thailand to be an escort" makes me wonder whether mental illness is involved.

[cctop]

A friend just told tell me her cousin let her know this weekend how his wife spent $40k on a boob job and cosmetic surgery behind his back, then he found she has multiple boyfriends and is going to Thailand to be an escort! Needless to say, they are divorcing.

You think you know people...

Since this thread is already labelled OT...

I'm surprised we all let this one slide. I have a prurient interest in learning more.

"Going to Thailand to be an escort" makes me wonder whether mental illness is involved.

[cardcrimson]

So OF the Buck stops at the bottom. Strange dude

No, Bob. I have perspective. Nothing I've heard suggests Fitzgerald shirked responsibility for what happened. He seems to have been a scapegoat for something that embarrassed his employer. I'm not aware any of the embarrassing behavior involved laws being broken. The greater point is I certainly know young people do things behind the backs of their adult supervision as a matter of course. I guarantee you if the same information reached the NU President's desk without it being splashed all over the media, Fitzgerald would have been suspended for 2 weeks and nobody would know about why.  Kind of like how we never heard a peep about what got Shannon Turley removed at Stanford.

Why isn't the NU AD fired? Shouldn't the AD have set the standards for what the schools want from coaches and players in the department he oversees? I'd say why not the school President, but I understand he's relatively new on the job and the incidents didn't happen on his watch.

There is absolutely no comparison between what happened at NU and what Turley did at Stanford.

So was Turley's less egregious, or more?

[cardcrimson]

So OF the Buck stops at the bottom. Strange dude

No, Bob. I have perspective. Nothing I've heard suggests Fitzgerald shirked responsibility for what happened. He seems to have been a scapegoat for something that embarrassed his employer. I'm not aware any of the embarrassing behavior involved laws being broken. The greater point is I certainly know young people do things behind the backs of their adult supervision as a matter of course. I guarantee you if the same information reached the NU President's desk without it being splashed all over the media, Fitzgerald would have been suspended for 2 weeks and nobody would know about why.  Kind of like how we never heard a peep about what got Shannon Turley removed at Stanford.

Why isn't the NU AD fired? Shouldn't the AD have set the standards for what the schools want from coaches and players in the department he oversees? I'd say why not the school President, but I understand he's relatively new on the job and the incidents didn't happen on his watch.

There is absolutely no comparison between what happened at NU and what Turley did at Stanford.

So was Turley's less egregious, or more?

[SamuelMcF]

So OF the Buck stops at the bottom. Strange dude

No, Bob. I have perspective. Nothing I've heard suggests Fitzgerald shirked responsibility for what happened. He seems to have been a scapegoat for something that embarrassed his employer. I'm not aware any of the embarrassing behavior involved laws being broken. The greater point is I certainly know young people do things behind the backs of their adult supervision as a matter of course. I guarantee you if the same information reached the NU President's desk without it being splashed all over the media, Fitzgerald would have been suspended for 2 weeks and nobody would know about why.  Kind of like how we never heard a peep about what got Shannon Turley removed at Stanford.

Why isn't the NU AD fired? Shouldn't the AD have set the standards for what the schools want from coaches and players in the department he oversees? I'd say why not the school President, but I understand he's relatively new on the job and the incidents didn't happen on his watch.

There is absolutely no comparison between what happened at NU and what Turley did at Stanford.

So was Turley's less egregious, or more?

Less by a country mile.

[SamuelMcF]

So OF the Buck stops at the bottom. Strange dude

No, Bob. I have perspective. Nothing I've heard suggests Fitzgerald shirked responsibility for what happened. He seems to have been a scapegoat for something that embarrassed his employer. I'm not aware any of the embarrassing behavior involved laws being broken. The greater point is I certainly know young people do things behind the backs of their adult supervision as a matter of course. I guarantee you if the same information reached the NU President's desk without it being splashed all over the media, Fitzgerald would have been suspended for 2 weeks and nobody would know about why.  Kind of like how we never heard a peep about what got Shannon Turley removed at Stanford.

Why isn't the NU AD fired? Shouldn't the AD have set the standards for what the schools want from coaches and players in the department he oversees? I'd say why not the school President, but I understand he's relatively new on the job and the incidents didn't happen on his watch.

There is absolutely no comparison between what happened at NU and what Turley did at Stanford.

So was Turley's less egregious, or more?

Less by a country mile.

[StanfordMatt]

I'm not aware any of the embarrassing behavior involved laws being broken.

The reports that have come out are rife with allegations of sexual assault.

[StanfordMatt]

I'm not aware any of the embarrassing behavior involved laws being broken.

The reports that have come out are rife with allegations of sexual assault.

[lex24]

A friend just told tell me her cousin let her know this weekend how his wife spent $40k on a boob job and cosmetic surgery behind his back, then he found she has multiple boyfriends and is going to Thailand to be an escort! Needless to say, they are divorcing.

You think you know people...

Since this thread is already labelled OT...

I'm surprised we all let this one slide. I have a prurient interest in learning more.

"Going to Thailand to be an escort" makes me wonder whether mental illness is involved.

Let’s not go there……

---

So OF the Buck stops at the bottom. Strange dude

No, Bob. I have perspective. Nothing I've heard suggests Fitzgerald shirked responsibility for what happened. He seems to have been a scapegoat for something that embarrassed his employer. I'm not aware any of the embarrassing behavior involved laws being broken. The greater point is I certainly know young people do things behind the backs of their adult supervision as a matter of course. I guarantee you if the same information reached the NU President's desk without it being splashed all over the media, Fitzgerald would have been suspended for 2 weeks and nobody would know about why.  Kind of like how we never heard a peep about what got Shannon Turley removed at Stanford.

Why isn't the NU AD fired? Shouldn't the AD have set the standards for what the schools want from coaches and players in the department he oversees? I'd say why not the school President, but I understand he's relatively new on the job and the incidents didn't happen on his watch.

I’m curious, have you even read the article?

[lex24]

A friend just told tell me her cousin let her know this weekend how his wife spent $40k on a boob job and cosmetic surgery behind his back, then he found she has multiple boyfriends and is going to Thailand to be an escort! Needless to say, they are divorcing.

You think you know people...

Since this thread is already labelled OT...

I'm surprised we all let this one slide. I have a prurient interest in learning more.

"Going to Thailand to be an escort" makes me wonder whether mental illness is involved.

Let’s not go there……

---

So OF the Buck stops at the bottom. Strange dude

No, Bob. I have perspective. Nothing I've heard suggests Fitzgerald shirked responsibility for what happened. He seems to have been a scapegoat for something that embarrassed his employer. I'm not aware any of the embarrassing behavior involved laws being broken. The greater point is I certainly know young people do things behind the backs of their adult supervision as a matter of course. I guarantee you if the same information reached the NU President's desk without it being splashed all over the media, Fitzgerald would have been suspended for 2 weeks and nobody would know about why.  Kind of like how we never heard a peep about what got Shannon Turley removed at Stanford.

Why isn't the NU AD fired? Shouldn't the AD have set the standards for what the schools want from coaches and players in the department he oversees? I'd say why not the school President, but I understand he's relatively new on the job and the incidents didn't happen on his watch.

I’m curious, have you even read the article?

[lex24]

Sometimes it helps to be specific. This is from the NW newspaper article.

1. “Running”:  Player was  restrained by 8-10 players who would then hold him down and dry hump him in a dark locker room. The practice was especially prevalent during training camp. 

Players were identified for “running” by the “Shrek clap”- clapping around the players head. At least one player said that Fitzgerald would make the motion during practices - generally when a Freshman made a mistake.  There also is allegedly a video of a player doing the “Shrek Clap” around a player’s  head during a game.

2. Players were forced to strip  and perform acts - such as “bear crawling” or slingshotting themselves across a room with bands. 

3. Center and QB were forced to engage in naked snaps.  And I don’t mean in a shotgun formation. 

4. “The carwash,” a player would stand naked at the entrance to the showers and spin around, forcing those entering the showers to “basically (rub) up against a bare-naked man.” Upon entering the showers, the player alleged that players set up a hose they connected to the shower to spray people.

According to the report that the article relied upon, these instances were “widespread”.  While some accounts differed somewhat perceptually, the evidence was largely supported.

From what I understand the people who undertook the investigation are heavyweights in the field.  They have done a lot of these.

If  the allegations are true, the  firing was  justified. Whether or not Fitzgerald had actual knowledge. It’s his program and players do not act like that, unless they believe there is at least tacit approval from the top. At the very least, it’s a total lack of institutional control.

If the allegations are false, then Fitzgerald has a legitimate beef.  So, let him prove it. I’d love to see Northwestern fight this.  But as I indicated earlier, I highly doubt they will. They don’t want their dirty laundry continually aired in the press. They want to  get this over with and move forward.

[lex24]

Sometimes it helps to be specific. This is from the NW newspaper article.

1. “Running”:  Player was  restrained by 8-10 players who would then hold him down and dry hump him in a dark locker room. The practice was especially prevalent during training camp. 

Players were identified for “running” by the “Shrek clap”- clapping around the players head. At least one player said that Fitzgerald would make the motion during practices - generally when a Freshman made a mistake.  There also is allegedly a video of a player doing the “Shrek Clap” around a player’s  head during a game.

2. Players were forced to strip  and perform acts - such as “bear crawling” or slingshotting themselves across a room with bands. 

3. Center and QB were forced to engage in naked snaps.  And I don’t mean in a shotgun formation. 

4. “The carwash,” a player would stand naked at the entrance to the showers and spin around, forcing those entering the showers to “basically (rub) up against a bare-naked man.” Upon entering the showers, the player alleged that players set up a hose they connected to the shower to spray people.

According to the report that the article relied upon, these instances were “widespread”.  While some accounts differed somewhat perceptually, the evidence was largely supported.

From what I understand the people who undertook the investigation are heavyweights in the field.  They have done a lot of these.

If  the allegations are true, the  firing was  justified. Whether or not Fitzgerald had actual knowledge. It’s his program and players do not act like that, unless they believe there is at least tacit approval from the top. At the very least, it’s a total lack of institutional control.

If the allegations are false, then Fitzgerald has a legitimate beef.  So, let him prove it. I’d love to see Northwestern fight this.  But as I indicated earlier, I highly doubt they will. They don’t want their dirty laundry continually aired in the press. They want to  get this over with and move forward.

[winflop]

Sometimes it helps to be specific. This is from the NW newspaper article.

1. “Running”:  Player was  restrained by 8-10 players who would then hold him down and dry hump him in a dark locker room. The practice was especially prevalent during training camp. 

Players were identified for “running” by the “Shrek clap”- clapping around the players head. At least one player said that Fitzgerald would make the motion during practices - generally when a Freshman made a mistake.  There also is allegedly a video of a player doing the “Shrek Clap” around a player’s  head during a game.

2. Players were forced to strip  and perform acts - such as “bear crawling” or slingshotting themselves across a room with bands. 

3. Center and QB were forced to engage in naked snaps.  And I don’t mean in a shotgun formation. 

4.  “The carwash,” a player would  stand naked at the entrance to the showers and spin around, forcing those entering the showers to “basically (rub) up against a bare-naked man.” Upon entering the showers, the player alleged that players set up a hose they connected to the shower to spray people.

According to the report that the article relied upon, these instances were “widespread”.  While some accounts differed somewhat perceptually, the evidence was largely supported.

From what I understand the people who undertook the investigation are heavyweights in the field.  They have done a lot of these.

If  the allegations are true, the  firing was  justified. Whether or not Fitzgerald had actual knowledge. It’s his program and players do not act like that, unless they believe there is at least tacit approval from the top. At the very least, it’s a total lack of institutional control.

If the allegations are false, then Fitzgerald has a legitimate beef.  So, let him prove it. I’d love to see Northwestern fight this.  But as I indicated earlier, I highly doubt they will. They don’t want their dirty laundry continually aired in the press. They want to  get this over with and move forward.

If the allegations are true, then not only should Fitz have been fired, but so should have every coach who was on the staff at the time and is still on the staff. I find NU's actions to be inconsistent with its statements.

[winflop]

Sometimes it helps to be specific. This is from the NW newspaper article.

1. “Running”:  Player was  restrained by 8-10 players who would then hold him down and dry hump him in a dark locker room. The practice was especially prevalent during training camp. 

Players were identified for “running” by the “Shrek clap”- clapping around the players head. At least one player said that Fitzgerald would make the motion during practices - generally when a Freshman made a mistake.  There also is allegedly a video of a player doing the “Shrek Clap” around a player’s  head during a game.

2. Players were forced to strip  and perform acts - such as “bear crawling” or slingshotting themselves across a room with bands. 

3. Center and QB were forced to engage in naked snaps.  And I don’t mean in a shotgun formation. 

4.  “The carwash,” a player would  stand naked at the entrance to the showers and spin around, forcing those entering the showers to “basically (rub) up against a bare-naked man.” Upon entering the showers, the player alleged that players set up a hose they connected to the shower to spray people.

According to the report that the article relied upon, these instances were “widespread”.  While some accounts differed somewhat perceptually, the evidence was largely supported.

From what I understand the people who undertook the investigation are heavyweights in the field.  They have done a lot of these.

If  the allegations are true, the  firing was  justified. Whether or not Fitzgerald had actual knowledge. It’s his program and players do not act like that, unless they believe there is at least tacit approval from the top. At the very least, it’s a total lack of institutional control.

If the allegations are false, then Fitzgerald has a legitimate beef.  So, let him prove it. I’d love to see Northwestern fight this.  But as I indicated earlier, I highly doubt they will. They don’t want their dirty laundry continually aired in the press. They want to  get this over with and move forward.

If the allegations are true, then not only should Fitz have been fired, but so should have every coach who was on the staff at the time and is still on the staff. I find NU's actions to be inconsistent with its statements.

[StanfordMatt]

Alas, it will not be Shaw, Paul Chryst, Bronco Mendenhall or Lovie Smith who coaches the Wildcats in 2023. The school announced today that former Defensive Coordinator David Braun (hired in Jan. 23) will be promoted from "Acting Head Coach" to "Interim Head Coach" for the upcoming season. Barring a miraculous season on the field, the full purge of assistant coaches will likely take place in December.

[StanfordMatt]

Alas, it will not be Shaw, Paul Chryst, Bronco Mendenhall or Lovie Smith who coaches the Wildcats in 2023. The school announced today that former Defensive Coordinator David Braun (hired in Jan. 23) will be promoted from "Acting Head Coach" to "Interim Head Coach" for the upcoming season. Barring a miraculous season on the field, the full purge of assistant coaches will likely take place in December.

[M T]

I haven't followed this closely.  While telling the coach to walk the plank may be appropriate, the perpetrators were the team members.  Surely all those perpetrators SHOULD be kicked off the team, so why not just take out the entire team, since (as seems to be the sentiment here) they knew what was going on and permitted or participated.  Why didn't the school disband the team (while still honoring the scholarships for those not kicked off as perpetrators) for a year?

That would definitely send a message, much more than any coaching turnover.

What with infinite transfers, some team members would bail.  They will be someone else's problem, if accepted elsewhere.  For those that value their education more, they might stay.

Didn't LSJUMB get disbanded for much less than this?

[M T]

I haven't followed this closely.  While telling the coach to walk the plank may be appropriate, the perpetrators were the team members.  Surely all those perpetrators SHOULD be kicked off the team, so why not just take out the entire team, since (as seems to be the sentiment here) they knew what was going on and permitted or participated.  Why didn't the school disband the team (while still honoring the scholarships for those not kicked off as perpetrators) for a year?

That would definitely send a message, much more than any coaching turnover.

What with infinite transfers, some team members would bail.  They will be someone else's problem, if accepted elsewhere.  For those that value their education more, they might stay.

Didn't LSJUMB get disbanded for much less than this?

[lex24]

I haven't followed this closely.  While telling the coach to walk the plank may be appropriate, the perpetrators were the team members.  Surely all those perpetrators SHOULD be kicked off the team, so why not just take out the entire team, since (as seems to be the sentiment here) they knew what was going on and permitted or participated.  Why didn't the school disband the team (while still honoring the scholarships for those not kicked off as perpetrators) for a year?

That would definitely send a message, much more than any coaching turnover.

What with infinite transfers, some team members would bail.  They will be someone else's problem, if accepted elsewhere.  For those that value their education more, they might stay.

Didn't LSJUMB get disbanded for much less than this?

Because that’s grossly unfair to all those that did not participate. Which I suspect is most of the team.  Other players knowing what was happening but not participating (and remaining silent) is very different from the standpoint of culpability, then determining the punishment for the person that is running the program.  

 Suspending or expelling those that did is appropriate.  But getting that list would be difficult.  And then they’d have to investigate each to find out their involvement; after which they could decide the appropriate punishment for each. My guess is players would be hesitant to name names.

[lex24]

I haven't followed this closely.  While telling the coach to walk the plank may be appropriate, the perpetrators were the team members.  Surely all those perpetrators SHOULD be kicked off the team, so why not just take out the entire team, since (as seems to be the sentiment here) they knew what was going on and permitted or participated.  Why didn't the school disband the team (while still honoring the scholarships for those not kicked off as perpetrators) for a year?

That would definitely send a message, much more than any coaching turnover.

What with infinite transfers, some team members would bail.  They will be someone else's problem, if accepted elsewhere.  For those that value their education more, they might stay.

Didn't LSJUMB get disbanded for much less than this?

Because that’s grossly unfair to all those that did not participate. Which I suspect is most of the team.  Other players knowing what was happening but not participating (and remaining silent) is very different from the standpoint of culpability, then determining the punishment for the person that is running the program.  

 Suspending or expelling those that did is appropriate.  But getting that list would be difficult.  And then they’d have to investigate each to find out their involvement; after which they could decide the appropriate punishment for each. My guess is players would be hesitant to name names.

[JJJ]

Now NW baseball coach fired for bullying.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/northwester...02016.html

[JJJ]

Now NW baseball coach fired for bullying.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/northwester...02016.html

[GK3]

Now NW baseball coach fired for bullying.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/northwester...02016.html

So why is the AD still employed?  He has a responsibility to know what is going on.

[GK3]

Now NW baseball coach fired for bullying.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/northwester...02016.html

So why is the AD still employed?  He has a responsibility to know what is going on.

[CowboyIndian]

Pat Fitzgerald doesn't appear to be some demon who countenanced hazing behavior. He apparently is not someone who doesn't take action to protect someone when told they need to be. He seems to have been trusting his players to act properly, not feeling like he needed to check-up on them like children, when it turns out doing that would have saved his job.

That IS his job...not to mention setting a standard where that kind of behavior isn't even a consideration, and if it is or was, saying, "No more!"

Ever since that dirty hit on KJ Costello, after which he was never the same QB, my opinion of Fitzgerald has been pretty low. That opinion has only been reinforced by recent events.

[CowboyIndian]

Pat Fitzgerald doesn't appear to be some demon who countenanced hazing behavior. He apparently is not someone who doesn't take action to protect someone when told they need to be. He seems to have been trusting his players to act properly, not feeling like he needed to check-up on them like children, when it turns out doing that would have saved his job.

That IS his job...not to mention setting a standard where that kind of behavior isn't even a consideration, and if it is or was, saying, "No more!"

Ever since that dirty hit on KJ Costello, after which he was never the same QB, my opinion of Fitzgerald has been pretty low. That opinion has only been reinforced by recent events.

[lex24]

Now NW baseball coach fired for bullying.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/northwester...02016.html

So why is the AD still employed?  He has a responsibility to know what is going on.

Good question.  I don’t know that an AD has a responsibility to know the ins and outs of what is going on in every sport.  That is an awfully big burden.  But this is two major sports. And, I believe the AD hired this baseball coach.

I’d can him at this point.

[lex24]

Now NW baseball coach fired for bullying.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/northwester...02016.html

So why is the AD still employed?  He has a responsibility to know what is going on.

Good question.  I don’t know that an AD has a responsibility to know the ins and outs of what is going on in every sport.  That is an awfully big burden.  But this is two major sports. And, I believe the AD hired this baseball coach.

I’d can him at this point.

[qwerty49]

I haven't followed this closely.  While telling the coach to walk the plank may be appropriate, the perpetrators were the team members.  Surely all those perpetrators SHOULD be kicked off the team, so why not just take out the entire team, since (as seems to be the sentiment here) they knew what was going on and permitted or participated.  Why didn't the school disband the team (while still honoring the scholarships for those not kicked off as perpetrators) for a year?

That would definitely send a message, much more than any coaching turnover.

What with infinite transfers, some team members would bail.  They will be someone else's problem, if accepted elsewhere.  For those that value their education more, they might stay.

Didn't LSJUMB get disbanded for much less than this?

Because that’s grossly unfair to all those that did not participate. Which I suspect is most of the team.  Other players knowing what was happening but not participating (and remaining silent) is very different from the standpoint of culpability, then determining the punishment for the person that is running the program.  

 Suspending or expelling those that did is appropriate.  But getting that list would be difficult.  And then they’d have to investigate each to find out their involvement; after which they could decide the appropriate punishment for each. My guess is players would be hesitant to name names.

But where do you draw the line at compiling the list?  Do you kick out the dry humpers, for example?  What about those who stood by and cheered them on?  What about those who stood by, felt it was wrong, and didn't say or do anything about it?  We all know the power of the crowd/wolfpack mentality, and it's so easy to "hide" within it.  

Hazing is, unfortunately, often a relatively self-sustaining "rite of passage," ie those that get hazed one year tend to lead and do the hazing the next year. 

With the wisdom of hindsight it's relatively easy to distinguish right from wrong.  I can't speak for anyone else here, but I suspect that more than 90% of the stupid things I've done in life were "achieved" between the ages of 18-21 when I was away from "the nest" for the first time.

[qwerty49]

I haven't followed this closely.  While telling the coach to walk the plank may be appropriate, the perpetrators were the team members.  Surely all those perpetrators SHOULD be kicked off the team, so why not just take out the entire team, since (as seems to be the sentiment here) they knew what was going on and permitted or participated.  Why didn't the school disband the team (while still honoring the scholarships for those not kicked off as perpetrators) for a year?

That would definitely send a message, much more than any coaching turnover.

What with infinite transfers, some team members would bail.  They will be someone else's problem, if accepted elsewhere.  For those that value their education more, they might stay.

Didn't LSJUMB get disbanded for much less than this?

Because that’s grossly unfair to all those that did not participate. Which I suspect is most of the team.  Other players knowing what was happening but not participating (and remaining silent) is very different from the standpoint of culpability, then determining the punishment for the person that is running the program.  

 Suspending or expelling those that did is appropriate.  But getting that list would be difficult.  And then they’d have to investigate each to find out their involvement; after which they could decide the appropriate punishment for each. My guess is players would be hesitant to name names.

But where do you draw the line at compiling the list?  Do you kick out the dry humpers, for example?  What about those who stood by and cheered them on?  What about those who stood by, felt it was wrong, and didn't say or do anything about it?  We all know the power of the crowd/wolfpack mentality, and it's so easy to "hide" within it.  

Hazing is, unfortunately, often a relatively self-sustaining "rite of passage," ie those that get hazed one year tend to lead and do the hazing the next year. 

With the wisdom of hindsight it's relatively easy to distinguish right from wrong.  I can't speak for anyone else here, but I suspect that more than 90% of the stupid things I've done in life were "achieved" between the ages of 18-21 when I was away from "the nest" for the first time.

[newguy]

Pat Fitzgerald doesn't appear to be some demon who countenanced hazing behavior. He apparently is not someone who doesn't take action to protect someone when told they need to be. He seems to have been trusting his players to act properly, not feeling like he needed to check-up on them like children, when it turns out doing that would have saved his job.

Ever since that dirty hit on KJ Costello, after which he was never the same QB, my opinion of Fitzgerald has been pretty low. That opinion has only been reinforced by recent events.

i forgot all about that hit.

[newguy]

Pat Fitzgerald doesn't appear to be some demon who countenanced hazing behavior. He apparently is not someone who doesn't take action to protect someone when told they need to be. He seems to have been trusting his players to act properly, not feeling like he needed to check-up on them like children, when it turns out doing that would have saved his job.

Ever since that dirty hit on KJ Costello, after which he was never the same QB, my opinion of Fitzgerald has been pretty low. That opinion has only been reinforced by recent events.

i forgot all about that hit.

[Mick]

Pat Fitzgerald doesn't appear to be some demon who countenanced hazing behavior. He apparently is not someone who doesn't take action to protect someone when told they need to be. He seems to have been trusting his players to act properly, not feeling like he needed to check-up on them like children, when it turns out doing that would have saved his job.

Ever since that dirty hit on KJ Costello, after which he was never the same QB, my opinion of Fitzgerald has been pretty low. That opinion has only been reinforced by recent events.

i forgot all about that hit.

Are you talking about this one?

https://youtu.be/aF46r65yGbg?t=243

[Mick]

Pat Fitzgerald doesn't appear to be some demon who countenanced hazing behavior. He apparently is not someone who doesn't take action to protect someone when told they need to be. He seems to have been trusting his players to act properly, not feeling like he needed to check-up on them like children, when it turns out doing that would have saved his job.

Ever since that dirty hit on KJ Costello, after which he was never the same QB, my opinion of Fitzgerald has been pretty low. That opinion has only been reinforced by recent events.

i forgot all about that hit.

Are you talking about this one?

https://youtu.be/aF46r65yGbg?t=243