[Jskass]

please tell me you folks are joking. I thought we were done with the five years of eligibility - given that she has played four at Cornell!

[Jskass]

please tell me you folks are joking. I thought we were done with the five years of eligibility - given that she has played four at Cornell!

[M T]

Cornell's Emily Pape hit a lot of 3s, scoring 18 of her 24 points on 6 of 15 3pt shots.  I'm a bit disappointed Stanford let her get so many 3pt shots.

Pape is a senior. Maybe she was auditioning for a spot on Stanford's roster next season.

 i was thinking she'd be a good addition.

Huh?  This is her 4th season (26 games in each of her previous 3 seasons).  AIUI, she can't be on any NCAA WBB roster after this.

[M T]

Cornell's Emily Pape hit a lot of 3s, scoring 18 of her 24 points on 6 of 15 3pt shots.  I'm a bit disappointed Stanford let her get so many 3pt shots.

Pape is a senior. Maybe she was auditioning for a spot on Stanford's roster next season.

 i was thinking she'd be a good addition.

Huh?  This is her 4th season (26 games in each of her previous 3 seasons).  AIUI, she can't be on any NCAA WBB roster after this.

[Spiny_Norman]

I guess I am conditioned to think that the 5th year is a given still. 

There are existing court challenges to the "4 years of eligibility" rule. Athletes want more years of NIL money which is often more than they can make playing professionally. I'll note that the NCAA has lost just about every case over athletic eligibility. 

https://www.cchalaw.com/collegiate-sport...-covid-era

[Spiny_Norman]

I guess I am conditioned to think that the 5th year is a given still. 

There are existing court challenges to the "4 years of eligibility" rule. Athletes want more years of NIL money which is often more than they can make playing professionally. I'll note that the NCAA has lost just about every case over athletic eligibility. 

https://www.cchalaw.com/collegiate-sport...-covid-era

[Lorcan]

Bizarre ending to regulation in the Michigan/Oregon game as the clock freezes with 5.2 seconds remaining. Apparently, a continuation of issues they've been having with the clock at MKA. Michigan misses both attempts in the waning seconds, and Oregon pushes them to overtime. A shocking effort from both from the charity stripe as the teams were a combined 20 of 40 in regulation - bet they both wish they had a few more trips to the stripe back.

[Lorcan]

Bizarre ending to regulation in the Michigan/Oregon game as the clock freezes with 5.2 seconds remaining. Apparently, a continuation of issues they've been having with the clock at MKA. Michigan misses both attempts in the waning seconds, and Oregon pushes them to overtime. A shocking effort from both from the charity stripe as the teams were a combined 20 of 40 in regulation - bet they both wish they had a few more trips to the stripe back.

[WBB fan]

Game has just gone into 2nd OT. If Oregon wins, taking down #6 Michigan, that is a great result from Stanford's pov! And even if they don't, still makes Stanford look good, the game going to two overtimes.

Well, Michigan won, more or less took over in 2nd OT, but Oregon was fighting all the way. A good showing for the ducks, and as I said, think that makes Stanford's win over them look all the more meaningful.

[WBB fan]

Game has just gone into 2nd OT. If Oregon wins, taking down #6 Michigan, that is a great result from Stanford's pov! And even if they don't, still makes Stanford look good, the game going to two overtimes.

Well, Michigan won, more or less took over in 2nd OT, but Oregon was fighting all the way. A good showing for the ducks, and as I said, think that makes Stanford's win over them look all the more meaningful.

[jonnyss]

Cornell's Emily Pape hit a lot of 3s, scoring 18 of her 24 points on 6 of 15 3pt shots.  I'm a bit disappointed Stanford let her get so many 3pt shots.

Pape is a senior. Maybe she was auditioning for a spot on Stanford's roster next season.

 i was thinking she'd be a good addition.

Huh?  This is her 4th season (26 games in each of her previous 3 seasons).  AIUI, she can't be on any NCAA WBB roster after this.

so literal! i meant (i thought it was obvious) that i was watching the game, thinking we sure could use her outside shot. i did not mean that i stopped watching to research her eligibility. yes, too bad she's a senior!

[jonnyss]

Cornell's Emily Pape hit a lot of 3s, scoring 18 of her 24 points on 6 of 15 3pt shots.  I'm a bit disappointed Stanford let her get so many 3pt shots.

Pape is a senior. Maybe she was auditioning for a spot on Stanford's roster next season.

 i was thinking she'd be a good addition.

Huh?  This is her 4th season (26 games in each of her previous 3 seasons).  AIUI, she can't be on any NCAA WBB roster after this.

so literal! i meant (i thought it was obvious) that i was watching the game, thinking we sure could use her outside shot. i did not mean that i stopped watching to research her eligibility. yes, too bad she's a senior!

[stopandpop]

How is 6’5” Alex Eschmeyer 5th on the team in rebounds/min (behind 6’1” Courtney Ogden, 6’2” Nunu Agara and Mary Ashley Stevenson, and 6’3” Lara Somfai)?  Today she had 2 rebounds in 12 minutes.  To be fair Somfai hovered them up (18 rebounds in 24 minutes), but even MAS had 4 boards in about the same amount of time.  I think the reason she is not getting as many minutes as people are clamoring for despite her potential is that she doesn’t “play big” given her size.  She will be much better once she bulks up and can establish position, but I think she still has a lot more work to do compared to the other freshmen.

BC

Regarding Eschmeyer, some of your comments are valid.  I will add she needs stronger hands, especially when grabbing rebounds, but when she's in the game, her touches are few, her teammates often don't look for her when she does establish good position, and when she gets behind her defender, passes (to her) are either thrown over her head or intercepted.  Eschmeyer (and her build) reminds me of a young 6'5 Marie Gulich from Oregon State who started very raw, but got minutes and became one of their best ever posts and is a member of the German national team.  More recently, 6'6 So. Elsa Lemmila for Ohio State got 15 minutes and 4points/game as a freshman for Kevin McGuff, who still had faith in her and now, as a sophomore is up to 18 minutes and 6.7 pts. and starts for the Buckeyes.  The other day, she looked very impressive against UCLA and Lauren Betts and her numbers are going up.  But the best example is Stanford's next opponent- 6'6 so. Tilda Trygger for N.C. State.  Wes Moore had her playing over 22 minutes/game as a freshman (6.6pts and 4.9 rebounds), but her post presence and playing time earned her a spot on the all-ACC freshman team.  This season as a sophomore she's averaging 11.2 ppg and 7.8 rpg. and will present a problem for the smaller Cardinal starting lineup.

We've seen Somfai and Argara in effective high/low action, but that pairing will not be all that effective against bigger teams.  On the other hand, it could hold promise for a Somfai-Eschmeyer high/low where her defender is behind her and where Alex would be in better position to score or get fouled.  Unfortunately, Alex is often paired with MAS who is too short to make that play work.  You will remember how awkward and ineffective freshman Lauren Betts was, but there was a game on the road (either Arizona or ASU) when Tara (briefly) had Brink and Betts playing a high/low and Betts looked really good.  Why that didn't continue remains a mystery to me.

Critics on this Board are correct in that Eschmeyer needs to develop, get bigger and stronger, but I have seen so many other post players (who are built like Alex) who were not all that big and strong as freshmen, get more court time, strong support from their respective coaches who saw their potential.  Their confidence improved and their effectiveness also improved over the season.  The reality is, we will not likely see this from happening under Coach Paye, who is basically playing a 'Post-Lite' offense.

[stopandpop]

How is 6’5” Alex Eschmeyer 5th on the team in rebounds/min (behind 6’1” Courtney Ogden, 6’2” Nunu Agara and Mary Ashley Stevenson, and 6’3” Lara Somfai)?  Today she had 2 rebounds in 12 minutes.  To be fair Somfai hovered them up (18 rebounds in 24 minutes), but even MAS had 4 boards in about the same amount of time.  I think the reason she is not getting as many minutes as people are clamoring for despite her potential is that she doesn’t “play big” given her size.  She will be much better once she bulks up and can establish position, but I think she still has a lot more work to do compared to the other freshmen.

BC

Regarding Eschmeyer, some of your comments are valid.  I will add she needs stronger hands, especially when grabbing rebounds, but when she's in the game, her touches are few, her teammates often don't look for her when she does establish good position, and when she gets behind her defender, passes (to her) are either thrown over her head or intercepted.  Eschmeyer (and her build) reminds me of a young 6'5 Marie Gulich from Oregon State who started very raw, but got minutes and became one of their best ever posts and is a member of the German national team.  More recently, 6'6 So. Elsa Lemmila for Ohio State got 15 minutes and 4points/game as a freshman for Kevin McGuff, who still had faith in her and now, as a sophomore is up to 18 minutes and 6.7 pts. and starts for the Buckeyes.  The other day, she looked very impressive against UCLA and Lauren Betts and her numbers are going up.  But the best example is Stanford's next opponent- 6'6 so. Tilda Trygger for N.C. State.  Wes Moore had her playing over 22 minutes/game as a freshman (6.6pts and 4.9 rebounds), but her post presence and playing time earned her a spot on the all-ACC freshman team.  This season as a sophomore she's averaging 11.2 ppg and 7.8 rpg. and will present a problem for the smaller Cardinal starting lineup.

We've seen Somfai and Argara in effective high/low action, but that pairing will not be all that effective against bigger teams.  On the other hand, it could hold promise for a Somfai-Eschmeyer high/low where her defender is behind her and where Alex would be in better position to score or get fouled.  Unfortunately, Alex is often paired with MAS who is too short to make that play work.  You will remember how awkward and ineffective freshman Lauren Betts was, but there was a game on the road (either Arizona or ASU) when Tara (briefly) had Brink and Betts playing a high/low and Betts looked really good.  Why that didn't continue remains a mystery to me.

Critics on this Board are correct in that Eschmeyer needs to develop, get bigger and stronger, but I have seen so many other post players (who are built like Alex) who were not all that big and strong as freshmen, get more court time, strong support from their respective coaches who saw their potential.  Their confidence improved and their effectiveness also improved over the season.  The reality is, we will not likely see this from happening under Coach Paye, who is basically playing a 'Post-Lite' offense.

[Spiny_Norman]

Could Eschmeyer be used better on the perimeter, like Ashten Prechtel? Prechtel was 6'5" also but never really played on the block on offense. In her Stanford career, nearly 50% of her shots were from 3.

[Spiny_Norman]

Could Eschmeyer be used better on the perimeter, like Ashten Prechtel? Prechtel was 6'5" also but never really played on the block on offense. In her Stanford career, nearly 50% of her shots were from 3.

[BostonCard]

This sets up an no lose proposition for those arguing that Eschmeyer should see more playing time.  If Eschmeyer is successful, the echo will be “why wasn’t she given more time earlier”, and if she winds up being a bust then the argument will be tha Paye screwed up her development by not giving her more playing time.

BC

[BostonCard]

This sets up an no lose proposition for those arguing that Eschmeyer should see more playing time.  If Eschmeyer is successful, the echo will be “why wasn’t she given more time earlier”, and if she winds up being a bust then the argument will be tha Paye screwed up her development by not giving her more playing time.

BC

[stopandpop]

This sets up an no lose proposition for those arguing that Eschmeyer should see more playing time.  If Eschmeyer is successful, the echo will be “why wasn’t she given more time earlier”, and if she winds up being a bust then the argument will be tha Paye screwed up her development by not giving her more playing time.

BC

I don't care about the argument one way or the other.  I care about developing players and winning basketball games.

[stopandpop]

This sets up an no lose proposition for those arguing that Eschmeyer should see more playing time.  If Eschmeyer is successful, the echo will be “why wasn’t she given more time earlier”, and if she winds up being a bust then the argument will be tha Paye screwed up her development by not giving her more playing time.

BC

I don't care about the argument one way or the other.  I care about developing players and winning basketball games.

[M T]

I don't care about the argument one way or the other.  I care about developing players and winning basketball games.

Funny, that's exactly what the coach wants to do.  But the coach's responsibility is more than words on a fan site.

The prerogative of the fan is always to think they know more and better than the coach. I guess that's part of the allure.

[M T]

I don't care about the argument one way or the other.  I care about developing players and winning basketball games.

Funny, that's exactly what the coach wants to do.  But the coach's responsibility is more than words on a fan site.

The prerogative of the fan is always to think they know more and better than the coach. I guess that's part of the allure.

[mbdude]

1ST league game Kate will be very cautious, doubt if we see eschmeyer much, but we will get a dose of MAS. Hope I'm wrong

[mbdude]

1ST league game Kate will be very cautious, doubt if we see eschmeyer much, but we will get a dose of MAS. Hope I'm wrong

[jonnyss]

imo alex's playing time depends on her defense. sometimes she's great, sometimes she's out of position. she has more potential than mas at this point but mas's defense is more consistent.

[jonnyss]

imo alex's playing time depends on her defense. sometimes she's great, sometimes she's out of position. she has more potential than mas at this point but mas's defense is more consistent.

[stopandpop]

1ST league game Kate will be very cautious, doubt if we see eschmeyer much, but we will get a dose of MAS. Hope I'm wrong

I agree 100%.  I'm predicting MAS gets significant playing time, not that Coach Paye believes she will score, but she likes the fact that MAS is a good facilitator and tends to make few mistakes.  NC State scores a lot of points in the paint and they will have a distinct size advantage in the post with 6'6 Trygger.  That's asking a lot from Agara.  If Coach Paye puts in MAS, it becomes more challenging because Stevenson is not the defender Nunu is and she can't jump.  At some point, we will see Eschmeyer, but for brief stints.  As soon as she makes a mistake, out she'll come.  I too am hoping I'm dead wrong about this.

[stopandpop]

1ST league game Kate will be very cautious, doubt if we see eschmeyer much, but we will get a dose of MAS. Hope I'm wrong

I agree 100%.  I'm predicting MAS gets significant playing time, not that Coach Paye believes she will score, but she likes the fact that MAS is a good facilitator and tends to make few mistakes.  NC State scores a lot of points in the paint and they will have a distinct size advantage in the post with 6'6 Trygger.  That's asking a lot from Agara.  If Coach Paye puts in MAS, it becomes more challenging because Stevenson is not the defender Nunu is and she can't jump.  At some point, we will see Eschmeyer, but for brief stints.  As soon as she makes a mistake, out she'll come.  I too am hoping I'm dead wrong about this.

[2006alum]

imo alex's playing time depends on her defense. sometimes she's great, sometimes she's out of position. she has more potential than mas at this point but mas's defense is more consistent.

The challenge to me is MAS is better on defense and rebounding and boxing out, which our coaches prioritize, but she's worse on passing, receiving, and scoring. So while it's maybe a coin flip abstractly, I actually think juicing our post offense is what we need - our perimeter defense leads to lots of steals and fast breaks so I'd rather enhance our ability to break open our half court sets even if they get a few other layups and second chance points on the other end.

[2006alum]

imo alex's playing time depends on her defense. sometimes she's great, sometimes she's out of position. she has more potential than mas at this point but mas's defense is more consistent.

The challenge to me is MAS is better on defense and rebounding and boxing out, which our coaches prioritize, but she's worse on passing, receiving, and scoring. So while it's maybe a coin flip abstractly, I actually think juicing our post offense is what we need - our perimeter defense leads to lots of steals and fast breaks so I'd rather enhance our ability to break open our half court sets even if they get a few other layups and second chance points on the other end.

[BosCard]

1ST league game Kate will be very cautious, doubt if we see eschmeyer much, but we will get a dose of MAS. Hope I'm wrong

I agree 100%.  I'm predicting MAS gets significant playing time, not that Coach Paye believes she will score, but she likes the fact that MAS is a good facilitator and tends to make few mistakes.  NC State scores a lot of points in the paint and they will have a distinct size advantage in the post with 6'6 Trygger.  That's asking a lot from Agara.  If Coach Paye puts in MAS, it becomes more challenging because Stevenson is not the defender Nunu is and she can't jump.  At some point, we will see Eschmeyer, but for brief stints.  As soon as she makes a mistake, out she'll come.  I too am hoping I'm dead wrong about this.

MAS is a better team defender than Eschmeyer at this point in that she understands our system (the switches and when to rotate/help) which is not surprising as a junior and in her second year in our system.  However she isn’t that good of a 1:1 post defender because she isn’t big enough.  It will be interesting to see the rotation because Eschmeyer may be a better individual defender against Trygger.

[BosCard]

1ST league game Kate will be very cautious, doubt if we see eschmeyer much, but we will get a dose of MAS. Hope I'm wrong

I agree 100%.  I'm predicting MAS gets significant playing time, not that Coach Paye believes she will score, but she likes the fact that MAS is a good facilitator and tends to make few mistakes.  NC State scores a lot of points in the paint and they will have a distinct size advantage in the post with 6'6 Trygger.  That's asking a lot from Agara.  If Coach Paye puts in MAS, it becomes more challenging because Stevenson is not the defender Nunu is and she can't jump.  At some point, we will see Eschmeyer, but for brief stints.  As soon as she makes a mistake, out she'll come.  I too am hoping I'm dead wrong about this.

MAS is a better team defender than Eschmeyer at this point in that she understands our system (the switches and when to rotate/help) which is not surprising as a junior and in her second year in our system.  However she isn’t that good of a 1:1 post defender because she isn’t big enough.  It will be interesting to see the rotation because Eschmeyer may be a better individual defender against Trygger.

[BostonCard]

Funny, that's exactly what the coach wants to do.  But the coach's responsibility is more than words on a fan site.

The prerogative of the fan is always to think they know more and better than the coach. I guess that's part of the allure.

This.  Coaches are imperfect and some coaches are better than others. They clearly make mistakes and are prone to biases. But even a bad coach is more knowledgeable about the game of basketball, has more information about the team and the players, has spent more time reviewing film and thinking about stuff like playing time and is certainly more motivated to get it right (after all, their employment is dependent on it) than even the most knowledgeable of fan message board warriors is.  Not saying that on the Eschmeyer playing time issue Paye is absolutely correct, but I would venture she is more likely to be right than anyone on this site (myself included).

BC

[BostonCard]

Funny, that's exactly what the coach wants to do.  But the coach's responsibility is more than words on a fan site.

The prerogative of the fan is always to think they know more and better than the coach. I guess that's part of the allure.

This.  Coaches are imperfect and some coaches are better than others. They clearly make mistakes and are prone to biases. But even a bad coach is more knowledgeable about the game of basketball, has more information about the team and the players, has spent more time reviewing film and thinking about stuff like playing time and is certainly more motivated to get it right (after all, their employment is dependent on it) than even the most knowledgeable of fan message board warriors is.  Not saying that on the Eschmeyer playing time issue Paye is absolutely correct, but I would venture she is more likely to be right than anyone on this site (myself included).

BC

[Mudhead]

Funny, that's exactly what the coach wants to do.  But the coach's responsibility is more than words on a fan site.

The prerogative of the fan is always to think they know more and better than the coach. I guess that's part of the allure.

This.  Coaches are imperfect and some coaches are better than others. They clearly make mistakes and are prone to biases. But even a bad coach is more knowledgeable about the game of basketball, has more information about the team and the players, has spent more time reviewing film and thinking about stuff like playing time and is certainly more motivated to get it right (after all, their employment is dependent on it) than even the most knowledgeable of fan message board warriors is.  Not saying that on the Eschmeyer playing time issue Paye is absolutely correct, but I would venture she is more likely to be right than anyone on this site (myself included).

BC

Not than me.  After all, I coached a fifth  grade Town North basketball team to a league winning season.  I mean, how good can you get?

[Mudhead]

Funny, that's exactly what the coach wants to do.  But the coach's responsibility is more than words on a fan site.

The prerogative of the fan is always to think they know more and better than the coach. I guess that's part of the allure.

This.  Coaches are imperfect and some coaches are better than others. They clearly make mistakes and are prone to biases. But even a bad coach is more knowledgeable about the game of basketball, has more information about the team and the players, has spent more time reviewing film and thinking about stuff like playing time and is certainly more motivated to get it right (after all, their employment is dependent on it) than even the most knowledgeable of fan message board warriors is.  Not saying that on the Eschmeyer playing time issue Paye is absolutely correct, but I would venture she is more likely to be right than anyone on this site (myself included).

BC

Not than me.  After all, I coached a fifth  grade Town North basketball team to a league winning season.  I mean, how good can you get?

[Card10Fan]

No Clardy today at NC State. I don’t even see her on the bench so doubt she even made the trip east.

[Card10Fan]

No Clardy today at NC State. I don’t even see her on the bench so doubt she even made the trip east.

[crackpot]

No Clardy today at NC State. I don’t even see her on the bench so doubt she even made the trip east.

I'm impressed you could see that. That camera is so far from the court, I ended up counting 8+5 and figuring Clardy and Ume didn't make the trip.

Wish we had the refs from the Cal/UNC game. Eesh.

It's too early in the year to have to suffer Carolyn Peck.

Do we have more offensive fouls in this quarter than we've had all season so far?

[crackpot]

No Clardy today at NC State. I don’t even see her on the bench so doubt she even made the trip east.

I'm impressed you could see that. That camera is so far from the court, I ended up counting 8+5 and figuring Clardy and Ume didn't make the trip.

Wish we had the refs from the Cal/UNC game. Eesh.

It's too early in the year to have to suffer Carolyn Peck.

Do we have more offensive fouls in this quarter than we've had all season so far?