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WBB: Stanford 62 -- CSU 60 - Printable Version

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RE: WBB: Stanford vs. CSU (5 PM) - TonyLima - 11-30-2025

(11-30-2025, 09:40 AM)jonnyss Wrote:  great play, thanks for the video. not sure much was "drawn up." looks like a give-and-go, perhaps the simplest play in baseball.
LOL

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. CSU (5 PM) - TheWildJacko - 11-30-2025

(11-30-2025, 11:32 AM)TonyLima Wrote:  
(11-30-2025, 09:40 AM)jonnyss Wrote:  great play, thanks for the video. not sure much was "drawn up." looks like a give-and-go, perhaps the simplest play in baseball.
LOL

It beats the give-and-don’t-go-but-instead-stand-around-and look-for-another-pass-around-the-perimeter-while-the-clock-runs-out, so at least there’s that.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. CSU (5 PM) - Deejaatee - 11-30-2025

Thoughts on the two games in Las Vegas.

It was fun to attend the games in person, though with the court being in an outside tent, it felt like going to a high school gym. It was that small.

I thought the team had issues with their sight lines in the first game with FGCU. They were missing shots even in warmups. So, when the game began, they didn't shoot much better.

I thought the FGCU team brought energy and movement that we had a hard time with. That movement is why I think Kate went with MAS rather than Eschmeyer as much as she did. That was better on defense but an issue on offense because, as mentioned elsewhere in this thread, MAS refuses to shoot or drive to the hoop from the top of the key. Ironic too because in warmups for the second game, she shot from that spot and hit 10 shots in a row. Several of us in the stands think the coaches are in her head and she is trying so hard to run the called play that she forgets that part of the play is for her to make a decision that might include her shooting.

I also thought Ogden, who has probably the smoothest shot on the team, also kept hesitating to shoot the ball, continuously looking to pass one more time. That's why I think she stayed on the bench much of the second half. I did like the energy the team brought in the 4th quarter though. I think this game will serve as a film study for the team to see what they need to bring every game, all game, in the future.

Finally, I thought the game showed just how much more growth Coach Paye needs to go through to help the team get where they need to be.

The second game, against Colorado State was another level. To begin with, the team shot much better in warmups. And once the game started, it appeared that they were finally used to shooting in that environment. Secondly, I thought they started the game out with more energy and movement. They should why I think the offense the run can work. When they execute the way they are supposed to, this offense has elements that fit all of the players they have. But,, when they don't execute, it is easy to stop. That's why the person at the high post has to be someone who will shoot the 15 foot jumper, or drive from there. MY concern in the second game with MAS. Why I think she did not play much in the second game.

I loved the decision Coach P made late in the second quarter to bring in Amborn. I thought she should have brought her in earlier in the 4th quarter the game before, but she stopped herself. This time, she went for it. And I think the game changed momentum at that point. She brought not only her great shooting, but young enthusiasm. And that Eurostep drive to the hoop. Who knew? This move putting her in did two things. First, she was able to make some plays and show that she is ready for more playing time. It also, I think woke Ogden up. I think it finally clicked with her that she needs to be more aggressive and demonstrative. I loved watching her take charge in the second half, especially in the 4th quarter. Not just in finally realizing that she can shoot at three levels, but also in how she started directing things on the court, on both ends. She was telling people where to go on the court. Being so close to the court, it was fun to watch.

If we can only get that Ogden the rest of the time. I was sitting near her family and they were all cheering her on at the end when she was doing the TV interview afterwards. Maybe that will help her come out of her shell.

And of course, Agara and Clardy were all that.

The tournament was fun.

Some other fun facts. I sat next to and talked with Alex Eschmeyer's mom at the first game. I do not have the same concern as others here, even though she did not play much in the two games. This is not a Lauren Betts situation.

There were also a couple of old time, former players at the game. Jennifer Azzi was there. She works for the Las Vegas Aces so she come by each time Stanford is in town.

And, going almost that far back, Angie Paccione was there. Got to speak with her a bit. Fun times.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. CSU (5 PM) - martyup - 11-30-2025

Wow, thanks DeeJaaTee!  That is some great info and analysis.  Glad to hear your take on Eschmeyer.  What do you think was up with Swain?

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. CSU (5 PM) - MV72018 - 11-30-2025

(11-30-2025, 09:40 AM)jonnyss Wrote:  
(11-29-2025, 08:26 PM)Baez87 Wrote:  
(11-29-2025, 07:46 PM)BosCard Wrote:  Great comeback.  The toughness on offense and defense in the 4th quarter was great.  And very nice designed play at the end to win the game.
Credit Carly Amborn for providing the turning point of the game. Credit the coaches for keeping their cool and for drawing up such a fine final play. Credit the players for spreading the floor and executing the play perfectly. Credit Nunu for the well-executed screen and Chloe for outrunning the defense. Hell, credit the game thread while you are at it, the moon phase, and Coach Paye!

great play, thanks for the video. not sure much was "drawn up." looks like a give-and-go, perhaps the simplest play in baseball.

When I looked at that "play" I doubted it should even be called a "play," much less a great play. It showed two things: Clardy can make a layup and, remarkably, CSU didn't make the most fundamental switch imaginable, letting Clardy waltz to the hoop unimpeded.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. CSU (5 PM) - OCcardinal - 11-30-2025

(11-29-2025, 08:00 PM)M T Wrote:  Somfai's 16 rebounds is impressive.
Not just impressive, it's nearly unprecedented.  Searching back to the 2009-10 season only one other Stanford freshman has had 16+ rebounds in a game (Kaylee Johnson, who did it 4 times back in the 2014-15 season and who is Stanford's all-time frosh rebounds leader). Cameron Brink and the Ogwumike sisters never did it their freshman year.  (Although Jane Appel had one 17 rebound game in February of her freshman year.)

Somfai's 8.9 rebounds per game is currently 2nd among all Stanford Freshman.  Granted the competition will get tougher, but it's a great start for her on the boards.

Freshman Records - Rebounds Per Game
Rank Reb/G Player Season
1. 9.6 Kaylee Johnson 2014-15
[8.9 Lara Somfai - through 11/29/25]
2. 8.7 Katy Steding 1986-87
3. 8.5 Nicole Powell 2000-01
4. 8.4 Kayla Pedersen 2007-08
5. 8.4 Evon Asforis 1985-86
6. 8.4 Jeanne Ruark 1978-79
7. 8.0 Chiney Ogwumike 2010-11
8. 7.5 Jayne Appel 2006-07
9. 7.4 Val Whiting 1989-90
10. 6.8 Jill Yanke 1985-86

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. CSU (5 PM) - BostonCard - 11-30-2025

(11-30-2025, 01:52 PM)MV72018 Wrote:  When I looked at that "play" I doubted it should even be called a "play," much less a great play. It showed two things: Clardy can make a layup and, remarkably, CSU didn't make the most fundamental switch imaginable, letting Clardy waltz to the hoop unimpeded.

LOL, some people here are so invested in the hypothesis that Kate Paye needs to be fired yesterday that they refuse to acknowledge that, yes, this was a play drawn up from the sidelines, and yes it worked and we won the game because of it.  You know that because with seven seconds to go in the game, Nunu passed the ball to Clardy, who dribbled until 5 seconds were left in the game before starting the play, meaning the bucket went in with about 2 seconds to go, which was important, because if she had missed, Agara, the screener, was all alone in front of the rim and could have easily put back a miss.  The reason she was all alone is that while CSU didn't make the switch (Agara's defender was off of her enough that Clardy's defender could go under the screen), Agara's defender did rotate to become a help defender; fortunately, Clardy turned the corner fast enough that she beat #0 to the basket. 

There is this pervasive belief here that if the coach could just magically draw up the perfect play that our offense would magically be loads better. The fact is that our offense, which I will grant could use some improvement, is not as bad as people make it, especially once you consider that we start two freshmen.  But basketball doesn't work that way; you can't just will your way to a new offense.  Players have to learn it and they have to be skilled enough to run it. We are all excited about the new freshmen, but, to give you one example, Swain's challenges finishing layups don't mean that Paye has her handcuffed and unable to exploit her athleticism.  Likewise, our problems shooting threes (shooting just 27% for the year) are not in fact because our coaching staff is not letting shooters shoot; it's that they are having trouble making the shots, even some that have been pretty wide open.

I don't know if Coach Paye is the right person for the job; she may not be.  I don't think a little bit over a year on the job is enough to make that determination.  I do think that fixating on which offensive "system" we run is probably not actually that useful.  Tara Vanderveer ran at least three different systems in her career (triangle, motion, Princeton, and probably others) and there was no one perfect one.  She won with pretty much all of them, and I think her ups and downs were more about recruiting and developing the players (versus lulls in recruitment or when players didn't pan out) than which system, though to be sure some systems are more suited for some players.

BC

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. CSU (5 PM) - Deejaatee - 11-30-2025

(11-30-2025, 01:12 PM)martyup Wrote:  Wow, thanks DeeJaaTee!  That is some great info and analysis.  Glad to hear your take on Eschmeyer.  What do you think was up with Swain?

I think Swain is playing as she should as a freshman who is used to being able to use her speed to get past people. Now she is starting to learn that the people at this level, even from the smaller schools are faster than she is used to. And the defenses they play are more geared to take away people who can drive like she can. It was interesting to see the difference between her and Clardy live from just a few feet off the court. Clardy is scary fast down the court, and moves with purpose. When she decides to go, like on the steal and fast break, or the last play, she is really quick and decisive. On the other hand, Swain is fast but not yet fully under control. She seems to hesitate just enough to lose her advantage going to the basket. Plus, she is not a very good 3-point shooter yet, so defenders play farther off of her. When she has open court, she is good. When she has to get through traffic, she is not there yet. But, she has lots of potential that shows that as the season moves forward, she will learn and we will see more of her. And, she is still learning on the defensive side, so more reasons for Coach to meter her time.
(11-30-2025, 02:48 PM)OCcardinal Wrote:  
(11-29-2025, 08:00 PM)M T Wrote:  Somfai's 16 rebounds is impressive.
Not just impressive, it's nearly unprecedented.  Searching back to the 2009-10 season only one other Stanford freshman has had 16+ rebounds in a game (Kaylee Johnson, who did it 4 times back in the 2014-15 season and who is Stanford's all-time frosh rebounds leader). Cameron Brink and the Ogwumike sisters never did it their freshman year.  (Although Jane Appel had one 17 rebound game in February of her freshman year.)

Somfai's 8.9 rebounds per game is currently 2nd among all Stanford Freshman.  Granted the competition will get tougher, but it's a great start for her on the boards.

Freshman Records - Rebounds Per Game
Rank Reb/G Player Season
1. 9.6 Kaylee Johnson 2014-15
[8.9 Lara Somfai - through 11/29/25]
2. 8.7 Katy Steding 1986-87
3. 8.5 Nicole Powell 2000-01
4. 8.4 Kayla Pedersen 2007-08
5. 8.4 Evon Asforis 1985-86
6. 8.4 Jeanne Ruark 1978-79
7. 8.0 Chiney Ogwumike 2010-11
8. 7.5 Jayne Appel 2006-07
9. 7.4 Val Whiting 1989-90
10. 6.8 Jill Yanke 1985-86

It was fun to see Somfai increase her intensity and energy in the second half. I imagine the coaches talked to her at halftime about her lack of rebounding in the first half. Because there were moments when she got every rebound on like 8 trips down the court after that. It was part of the overall uptick in energy and aggressiveness that the entire team brought at the end of the game.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. CSU (5 PM) - crackpot - 11-30-2025

Appreciate your comments, deejatree. Did you happen to notice if they measured the hoops prior to the games? Every time I've seen that 3-minute highlight video, it looks like the left hoop is higher than the right hoop. Might just be camera angle or something, but it jumped out at me. Of course, the teams play both sides, but this amateurish facility was a joke. The teams deserve better.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. CSU (5 PM) - Deejaatee - 11-30-2025

(11-30-2025, 04:43 PM)crackpot Wrote:  Appreciate your comments, deejatree. Did you happen to notice if they measured the hoops prior to the games? Every time I've seen that 3-minute highlight video, it looks like the left hoop is higher than the right hoop. Might just be camera angle or something, but it jumped out at me. Of course, the teams play both sides, but this amateurish facility was a joke. The teams deserve better.

I did not notice as the baskets were already up from the Men's tournaments earlier in the day. But portable hoops can always be challenging in a regular gym. This was definitely not regular.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. CSU (5 PM) - stopandpop - 11-30-2025

(11-30-2025, 12:29 PM)Deejaatee Wrote:  Thoughts on the two games in Las Vegas.

It was fun to attend the games in person, though with the court being in an outside tent, it felt like going to a high school gym. It was that small.

I thought the team had issues with their sight lines in the first game with FGCU. They were missing shots even in warmups. So, when the game began, they didn't shoot much better.

I thought the FGCU team brought energy and movement that we had a hard time with. That movement is why I think Kate went with MAS rather than Eschmeyer as much as she did. That was better on defense but an issue on offense because, as mentioned elsewhere in this thread, MAS refuses to shoot or drive to the hoop from the top of the key. Ironic too because in warmups for the second game, she shot from that spot and hit 10 shots in a row. Several of us in the stands think the coaches are in her head and she is trying so hard to run the called play that she forgets that part of the play is for her to make a decision that might include her shooting.

I also thought Ogden, who has probably the smoothest shot on the team, also kept hesitating to shoot the ball, continuously looking to pass one more time. That's why I think she stayed on the bench much of the second half. I did like the energy the team brought in the 4th quarter though. I think this game will serve as a film study for the team to see what they need to bring every game, all game, in the future.

Finally, I thought the game showed just how much more growth Coach Paye needs to go through to help the team get where they need to be.

The second game, against Colorado State was another level. To begin with, the team shot much better in warmups. And once the game started, it appeared that they were finally used to shooting in that environment. Secondly, I thought they started the game out with more energy and movement. They should why I think the offense the run can work. When they execute the way they are supposed to, this offense has elements that fit all of the players they have. But,, when they don't execute, it is easy to stop. That's why the person at the high post has to be someone who will shoot the 15 foot jumper, or drive from there. MY concern in the second game with MAS. Why I think she did not play much in the second game.

I loved the decision Coach P made late in the second quarter to bring in Amborn. I thought she should have brought her in earlier in the 4th quarter the game before, but she stopped herself. This time, she went for it. And I think the game changed momentum at that point. She brought not only her great shooting, but young enthusiasm. And that Eurostep drive to the hoop. Who knew? This move putting her in did two things. First, she was able to make some plays and show that she is ready for more playing time. It also, I think woke Ogden up. I think it finally clicked with her that she needs to be more aggressive and demonstrative. I loved watching her take charge in the second half, especially in the 4th quarter. Not just in finally realizing that she can shoot at three levels, but also in how she started directing things on the court, on both ends. She was telling people where to go on the court. Being so close to the court, it was fun to watch.

If we can only get that Ogden the rest of the time. I was sitting near her family and they were all cheering her on at the end when she was doing the TV interview afterwards. Maybe that will help her come out of her shell.

And of course, Agara and Clardy were all that.

The tournament was fun.

Some other fun facts. I sat next to and talked with Alex Eschmeyer's mom at the first game. I do not have the same concern as others here, even though she did not play much in the two games. This is not a Lauren Betts situation.

There were also a couple of old time, former players at the game. Jennifer Azzi was there. She works for the Las Vegas Aces so she come by each time Stanford is in town.

And, going almost that far back, Angie Paccione was there. Got to speak with her a bit. Fun times.


Nice to hear your comments about Eschmeyer, but even if she stays, my concern remains that Coach Paye (for now) is not investing in her development and as we begin to play against much bigger/taller opponents, this will come back to haunt Stanford.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. CSU (5 PM) - BostonCard - 11-30-2025

I'm biting my more sarcastic tone here, but I don't think not giving a player a lot of gametime minutes reflects a lack of investment.  Players are going to develop more in the hours of practice than in the 10 minutes more you might give someone in a game.

BC

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. CSU (5 PM) - BillBradley - 12-01-2025

Coaches decide who gets to be on the court. It's their career and their prerogative.    

Through those decisions, KP is telling Eschmeyer these things:
1) We have more confidence in Stephenson on the court than you.
2) Our assessment of you is that you can compete against below average competition. You aren't good enough to warrant a lot of minutes against average competition (Gonzaga, Colorado St), so we are currently playing you about 5 mins in those games.
3) Based on our performance so far, we know we aren't really a great team. We were in very close games against Gonzaga and Colorado St., and just lost to FGCU. Regardless of our team's performance, we still don't think it makes sense to give you more opportunity.

I don't think any of that is debatable, as those things are all on display for everyone to see. 

The rest of this is debatable.

Giving her attention and reps in practice matters. Giving her specific coaching feedback matters. Telling her how important she is to the team and the future of the program matters. However, the above list is what the coaches really think of her. 

It's highly likely that come March there's another Power Four team out there with a coaching staff that's already recruited Alex who would love a 6' 5" post with her skill set. It's also highly likely that team has more NIL money than Stanford. Maybe that team is Michigan. Or Louisville. So, if you're Alex, and things don't change by mid-season, is this how you're thinking?


- I know what my coaches think of my abilities, and it's not a pretty picture.
- All the players ahead of me are back next year.
- Before Stanford, I was on the 2024 USA Women's U17 National Team, but at Stanford I'm playing behind Stevenson.
- This other(s) Power Four basketball program really wants me and I would start there.
- I would also make $200K+ (?) more per year there.
- I am so outta here.

Or, is she thinking:
- I need to trust my coaches, double down on my efforts, and beat out the players ahead of me.
- I love Stanford, the school, my coaches, my teammates.
- I want a Stanford degree.
- I am going to see this through.

Of course both are possibilities. It really depends on each individual and what they value. We can play the negative-not game: "just because a player is dissatisfied doesn't mean she is going to transfer". Or we can look at it at face value: Kate is risking losing a very talented player. Unlike at other schools, at Stanford she is irreplacable. For me, this continutes to be a big-time head scratcher.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. CSU (5 PM) - stopandpop - 12-01-2025

(12-01-2025, 12:41 PM)BillBradley Wrote:  Coaches decide who gets to be on the court. It's their career and their prerogative.    

Through those decisions, KP is telling Eschmeyer these things:
1) We have more confidence in Stephenson on the court than you.
2) Our assessment of you is that you can compete against below average competition. You aren't good enough to warrant a lot of minutes against average competition (Gonzaga, Colorado St), so we are currently playing you about 5 mins in those games.
3) Based on our performance so far, we know we aren't really a great team. We were in very close games against Gonzaga and Colorado St., and just lost to FGCU. Regardless of our team's performance, we still don't think it makes sense to give you more opportunity.

I don't think any of that is debatable, as those things are all on display for everyone to see. 

The rest of this is debatable.

Giving her attention and reps in practice matters. Giving her specific coaching feedback matters. Telling her how important she is to the team and the future of the program matters. However, the above list is what the coaches really think of her. 

It's highly likely that come March there's another Power Four team out there with a coaching staff that's already recruited Alex who would love a 6' 5" post with her skill set. It's also highly likely that team has more NIL money than Stanford. Maybe that team is Michigan. Or Louisville. So, if you're Alex, and things don't change by mid-season, is this how you're thinking?


- I know what my coaches think of my abilities, and it's not a pretty picture.
- All the players ahead of me are back next year.
- Before Stanford, I was on the 2024 USA Women's U17 National Team, but at Stanford I'm playing behind Stevenson.
- This other(s) Power Four basketball program really wants me and I would start there.
- I would also make $200K+ (?) more per year there.
- I am so outta here.

Or, is she thinking:
- I need to trust my coaches, double down on my efforts, and beat out the players ahead of me.
- I love Stanford, the school, my coaches, my teammates.
- I want a Stanford degree.
- I am going to see this through.

Of course both are possibilities. It really depends on each individual and what they value. We can play the negative-not game: "just because a player is dissatisfied doesn't mean she is going to transfer". Or we can look at it at face value: Kate is risking losing a very talented player. Unlike at other schools, at Stanford she is irreplacable. For me, this continutes to be a big-time head scratcher.


Coach Paye has more confidence in Stevenson (and we can add Lepolo here), because they know how to run the Princeton offense the way Coach wants them to.  Give Stevenson credit for hustling rebounds and loose balls, but is severely challenged in terms of scoring.  Lepolo consistently brings the ball up court and works efficiently in running the Princeton, but like Stevenson, scoring is a challenge.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I see a big disconnect between what Coach Paye has said:  "We want to compete for national championships" (initial press conference) vs. who she has been counting on to get the team to that level.  Too many Div. I coaches over the past six decades (following WBB), have told me that real learning and growth takes place on the court. 

No one is questioning that Coach Paye is the leader and the face of the program.   She's doing what she believes is best for the development of the team.  

I sure hope that we see Eschmeyer (who is one of the keys to Coach Paye's mission), becoming the player everyone hopes she can be.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. CSU (5 PM) - martyup - 12-01-2025

(12-01-2025, 02:29 PM)stopandpop Wrote:  I sure hope that we see Eschmeyer (who is one of the keys to Coach Paye's mission), becoming the player everyone hopes she can be.

At Stanford!

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. CSU (5 PM) - Nobadeer - 12-01-2025

Lepolo reminds me a bit of Tony Giovachinni (and before that, his uncle in the late 1970s, Paul G.). Some pluses some minuses and maybe a few points and assists, and not many highlights, per 40 minutes. 

MAS would be MVP in Nescac or the Sciac . . .

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. CSU (5 PM) - PalmTree - 12-01-2025

(12-01-2025, 05:23 PM)Nobadeer Wrote:  Lepolo reminds me a bit of Tony Giovachinni (and before that, his uncle in the late 1970s, Paul G.). Some pluses some minuses and maybe a few points and assists, and not many highlights, per 40 minutes. 

I was thinking Mitch Johnson, but yeah, Tony G works too

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. CSU (5 PM) - BostonCard - 12-01-2025

With all due respect, since we know nothing of the conversations that are happening between player and coach, we have no idea what coach Paye is “telling” Eschmeyer, and speculating on messages, much less stating that they are plain for all to see is a fool’s errand.

Andrew Luck redshirted his freshman year.  One could have read into that as Coach Harbaugh telling Luck that he had more confidence in Tavita Pritchard than in Luck, and that there were lots of programs hungry to poach him.  Thankfully at the time there was plenty of communication that this was not the case and that some of the decision to redshirt came from Andrew and Oliver Luck.

Sure, Kate Paye may be committing a catastrophic error, and Eschmeyer may be in the transfer portal come the spring, and will thrive somewhere else.  In that case Kate Paye will ultimately be held accountable.  But until that actually happens, I suggest we all turn down the volume a little bit on the uninformed speculation as to what is being communicated to players and what a player will do.

Yeah, I know, this is a message board; I might as well be this guy:

[Image: giphy.gif]

BC

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. CSU (5 PM) - 2006alum - 12-01-2025

(12-01-2025, 08:12 PM)BostonCard Wrote:  With all due respect, since we know nothing of the conversations that are happening between player and coach, we have no idea what coach Paye is “telling” Eschmeyer, and speculating on messages, much less stating that they are plain for all to see is a fool’s errand.

Andrew Luck redshirted his freshman year.  One could have read into that as Coach Harbaugh telling Luck that he had more confidence in Tavita Pritchard than in Luck, and that there were lots of programs hungry to poach him.  Thankfully at the time there was plenty of communication that this was not the case and that some of the decision to redshirt came from Andrew and Oliver Luck.

Sure, Kate Paye may be committing a catastrophic error, and Eschmeyer may be in the transfer portal come the spring, and will thrive somewhere else.  In that case Kate Paye will ultimately be held accountable.  But until that actually happens, I suggest we all turn down the volume a little bit on the uninformed speculation as to what is being communicated to players and what a player will do.

Yeah, I know, this is a message board; I might as well be this guy:

[Image: giphy.gif]

BC

Thank you. Fully concur.

(11-30-2025, 12:29 PM)Deejaatee Wrote:  Thoughts on the two games in Las Vegas.

It was fun to attend the games in person, though with the court being in an outside tent, it felt like going to a high school gym. It was that small.

I thought the team had issues with their sight lines in the first game with FGCU. They were missing shots even in warmups. So, when the game began, they didn't shoot much better.

I thought the FGCU team brought energy and movement that we had a hard time with. That movement is why I think Kate went with MAS rather than Eschmeyer as much as she did. That was better on defense but an issue on offense because, as mentioned elsewhere in this thread, MAS refuses to shoot or drive to the hoop from the top of the key. Ironic too because in warmups for the second game, she shot from that spot and hit 10 shots in a row. Several of us in the stands think the coaches are in her head and she is trying so hard to run the called play that she forgets that part of the play is for her to make a decision that might include her shooting.

I also thought Ogden, who has probably the smoothest shot on the team, also kept hesitating to shoot the ball, continuously looking to pass one more time. That's why I think she stayed on the bench much of the second half. I did like the energy the team brought in the 4th quarter though. I think this game will serve as a film study for the team to see what they need to bring every game, all game, in the future.

Finally, I thought the game showed just how much more growth Coach Paye needs to go through to help the team get where they need to be.

The second game, against Colorado State was another level. To begin with, the team shot much better in warmups. And once the game started, it appeared that they were finally used to shooting in that environment. Secondly, I thought they started the game out with more energy and movement. They should why I think the offense the run can work. When they execute the way they are supposed to, this offense has elements that fit all of the players they have. But,, when they don't execute, it is easy to stop. That's why the person at the high post has to be someone who will shoot the 15 foot jumper, or drive from there. MY concern in the second game with MAS. Why I think she did not play much in the second game.

I loved the decision Coach P made late in the second quarter to bring in Amborn. I thought she should have brought her in earlier in the 4th quarter the game before, but she stopped herself. This time, she went for it. And I think the game changed momentum at that point. She brought not only her great shooting, but young enthusiasm. And that Eurostep drive to the hoop. Who knew? This move putting her in did two things. First, she was able to make some plays and show that she is ready for more playing time. It also, I think woke Ogden up. I think it finally clicked with her that she needs to be more aggressive and demonstrative. I loved watching her take charge in the second half, especially in the 4th quarter. Not just in finally realizing that she can shoot at three levels, but also in how she started directing things on the court, on both ends. She was telling people where to go on the court. Being so close to the court, it was fun to watch.

If we can only get that Ogden the rest of the time. I was sitting near her family and they were all cheering her on at the end when she was doing the TV interview afterwards. Maybe that will help her come out of her shell.

And of course, Agara and Clardy were all that.

The tournament was fun.

Some other fun facts. I sat next to and talked with Alex Eschmeyer's mom at the first game. I do not have the same concern as others here, even though she did not play much in the two games. This is not a Lauren Betts situation.

There were also a couple of old time, former players at the game. Jennifer Azzi was there. She works for the Las Vegas Aces so she come by each time Stanford is in town.

And, going almost that far back, Angie Paccione was there. Got to speak with her a bit. Fun times.

Belatedly, this was an excellent post with a lot of thoughtful analysis. Thanks for sharing it, and stop by more often! 

What you highlight with both Eschmeyer and Amborn is that they are more advanced offensively than defensively, and KP is doing what Tara often did with frosh, and prioritize our best/most experience defensive players. I do get that, for a lot of reasons. But I think this season we need to make a lot of significant progress on offense to be competitive in - let alone be invited to - the post-season, so I would actually prefer the risk of defensive lapses and blown coverage in exchange for speeding up Eschmeyer and Amborn's progression. Which I suppose is a nicer way of saying more Eschmeyer and Amborn time, less MAS and Lepolo time, please!

I am a little worried about Swain. It feels like each game her shot abandons her more as the season is progressing. With the exception of her output against an extremely overmatched Lehigh team, Swain is 6/38 in her last four games. I completely agree with you that she seems to lose confidence as soon as she approaches the paint in any kind of traffic, and she also seems hesitant shooting outside.  This is totally speculative, but didn't she have a rather late growth spurt? As mentioned in our recruiting thread, she was 5'8" relatively recently, and is now fully 5'11", and I wonder if it's thrown off her approach to shooting, outside and in? At times it just feels like she's not really fully in control of her body - she has the instinct to move like Haley Jones, but not the wherewithal to actually do it.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. CSU (5 PM) - BillBradley - 12-01-2025

(12-01-2025, 08:12 PM)BostonCard Wrote:  With all due respect, since we know nothing of the conversations that are happening between player and coach, we have no idea what coach Paye is “telling” Eschmeyer, and speculating on messages, much less stating that they are plain for all to see is a fool’s errand.

Andrew Luck redshirted his freshman year.  One could have read into that as Coach Harbaugh telling Luck that he had more confidence in Tavita Pritchard than in Luck, and that there were lots of programs hungry to poach him.  Thankfully at the time there was plenty of communication that this was not the case and that some of the decision to redshirt came from Andrew and Oliver Luck.

Sure, Kate Paye may be committing a catastrophic error, and Eschmeyer may be in the transfer portal come the spring, and will thrive somewhere else.  In that case Kate Paye will ultimately be held accountable.  But until that actually happens, I suggest we all turn down the volume a little bit on the uninformed speculation as to what is being communicated to players and what a player will do.

Yeah, I know, this is a message board; I might as well be this guy:

[Image: giphy.gif]

BC
Pretty frustrated with that response. I never speculated on any conversations between coach and player. My post was all about the facts and what is happening, yes, right in front of us all. My point was that the coach is "telling" her things, not verbally, but as I said through her actions. By how she is (not) using her. If you disagree with any of those things I listed, I think that would be a great discussion. IMO, there is no speculation there at all. There's nothing uninformed. It's exactly the opposite of uninformed. It is what is happening. 

Your comparison to Andrew Luck being redshirted isn't apples to apples. You don't burn a year of eligibility with a redshirt year. If Alex was redshirting, there would be no issue. The big issue in this case is that we now live in a world of a transfer portal and NIL, which didn't exist when Luck played. We can't afford to lose her to the portal, and that is a big deal. 

I might be off, but I think sometimes you, and others, feel the need to try and calm down a discussion because maybe you think people are making inappropriate posts? If that's the case, in my defense, I try to be very measured when I post. I don't insult players, make petty comments, use profanity, etc. I feel the same about other posters, and reading discussions about topics like this is one of the things I value most about this board. I can go read bland AI generated content about the Stanford womens basketball team in tons of places, but it's this kind of stuff that's the most interesting.

Lastly, I'd like to point out that you yourself said "sure, she may be making a catastrophic error". Obviously you agree it's potentially a big issue. I don't get it then - it could be a big deal, but let's not talk about it? I don't get it.