[DC 86]

Here's one draft analysis that thinks Rosen's brash, outspoken personality may hurt him come draft time.
http://walterfootball.com/draft2018.php

Sort of the way Fournette and McCaffrey skipping their bowl games hurt them come draft time?

Or Jay Cutler (antisocial personality, horrible reputation in college - 11th overall), Ryan Leaf (known for his immaturity, blew off interviews at combine -2nd overall), Johnny Manziel (enough said - 22nd overall), Rex Grossman (knowitall rep with overbearing father - 22nd overall), Todd Marinivich (24th overall) ...

[DC 86]

Here's one draft analysis that thinks Rosen's brash, outspoken personality may hurt him come draft time.
http://walterfootball.com/draft2018.php

Sort of the way Fournette and McCaffrey skipping their bowl games hurt them come draft time?

Or Jay Cutler (antisocial personality, horrible reputation in college - 11th overall), Ryan Leaf (known for his immaturity, blew off interviews at combine -2nd overall), Johnny Manziel (enough said - 22nd overall), Rex Grossman (knowitall rep with overbearing father - 22nd overall), Todd Marinivich (24th overall) ...

[SF_Cardinal_Fan]

[quote author=JPRI link=topic=17297.msg201183#msg201183 date=1505673972]
Here's one draft analysis that thinks Rosen's brash, outspoken personality may hurt him come draft time.
http://walterfootball.com/draft2018.php

Sort of the way Fournette and McCaffrey skipping their bowl games hurt them come draft time?

Or Jay Cutler (antisocial personality, horrible reputation in college - 11th overall), Ryan Leaf (known for his immaturity, blew off interviews at combine -2nd overall), Johnny Manziel (enough said - 22nd overall), Rex Grossman (knowitall rep with overbearing father - 22nd overall), Todd Marinivich (24th overall) ...
[/quote]

Marinovich was outspoken at USC  and, or while playing NFL football ?
I knew he was troubled but had always assumed he was a quiet type, unassuming guy.

[SF_Cardinal_Fan]

[quote author=JPRI link=topic=17297.msg201183#msg201183 date=1505673972]
Here's one draft analysis that thinks Rosen's brash, outspoken personality may hurt him come draft time.
http://walterfootball.com/draft2018.php

Sort of the way Fournette and McCaffrey skipping their bowl games hurt them come draft time?

Or Jay Cutler (antisocial personality, horrible reputation in college - 11th overall), Ryan Leaf (known for his immaturity, blew off interviews at combine -2nd overall), Johnny Manziel (enough said - 22nd overall), Rex Grossman (knowitall rep with overbearing father - 22nd overall), Todd Marinivich (24th overall) ...
[/quote]

Marinovich was outspoken at USC  and, or while playing NFL football ?
I knew he was troubled but had always assumed he was a quiet type, unassuming guy.

[BostonCard]

[quote author=JPRI link=topic=17297.msg201183#msg201183 date=1505673972]
Here's one draft analysis that thinks Rosen's brash, outspoken personality may hurt him come draft time.
http://walterfootball.com/draft2018.php

Sort of the way Fournette and McCaffrey skipping their bowl games hurt them come draft time?

Or Jay Cutler (antisocial personality, horrible reputation in college - 11th overall), Ryan Leaf (known for his immaturity, blew off interviews at combine -2nd overall), Johnny Manziel (enough said - 22nd overall), Rex Grossman (knowitall rep with overbearing father - 22nd overall), Todd Marinivich (24th overall) ...
[/quote]

Maybe the NFL is capable of learning from its mistakes?[/sarcasm]

I think Rosen will likely be picked in the top-10, my guess is #2 overall behind Darnold.  The question is whether said NFL team will be glad that they drafted him so high.

BC

[BostonCard]

[quote author=JPRI link=topic=17297.msg201183#msg201183 date=1505673972]
Here's one draft analysis that thinks Rosen's brash, outspoken personality may hurt him come draft time.
http://walterfootball.com/draft2018.php

Sort of the way Fournette and McCaffrey skipping their bowl games hurt them come draft time?

Or Jay Cutler (antisocial personality, horrible reputation in college - 11th overall), Ryan Leaf (known for his immaturity, blew off interviews at combine -2nd overall), Johnny Manziel (enough said - 22nd overall), Rex Grossman (knowitall rep with overbearing father - 22nd overall), Todd Marinivich (24th overall) ...
[/quote]

Maybe the NFL is capable of learning from its mistakes?[/sarcasm]

I think Rosen will likely be picked in the top-10, my guess is #2 overall behind Darnold.  The question is whether said NFL team will be glad that they drafted him so high.

BC

[SF_Cardinal_Fan]

[quote author=JPRI link=topic=17297.msg201183#msg201183 date=1505673972]
Here's one draft analysis that thinks Rosen's brash, outspoken personality may hurt him come draft time.
http://walterfootball.com/draft2018.php

Sort of the way Fournette and McCaffrey skipping their bowl games hurt them come draft time?

Or Jay Cutler (antisocial personality, horrible reputation in college - 11th overall), Ryan Leaf (known for his immaturity, blew off interviews at combine -2nd overall), Johnny Manziel (enough said - 22nd overall), Rex Grossman (knowitall rep with overbearing father - 22nd overall), Todd Marinivich (24th overall) ...
[/quote]

A conversation about QB's with controversial personalities should probably include Jim Harbaugh's name.

[SF_Cardinal_Fan]

[quote author=JPRI link=topic=17297.msg201183#msg201183 date=1505673972]
Here's one draft analysis that thinks Rosen's brash, outspoken personality may hurt him come draft time.
http://walterfootball.com/draft2018.php

Sort of the way Fournette and McCaffrey skipping their bowl games hurt them come draft time?

Or Jay Cutler (antisocial personality, horrible reputation in college - 11th overall), Ryan Leaf (known for his immaturity, blew off interviews at combine -2nd overall), Johnny Manziel (enough said - 22nd overall), Rex Grossman (knowitall rep with overbearing father - 22nd overall), Todd Marinivich (24th overall) ...
[/quote]

A conversation about QB's with controversial personalities should probably include Jim Harbaugh's name.

[Mick]

NFL coaches and owners are wary of the sort of things Rosen has discussed to the media, and his open views could hurt him. Scouts have told us that his teammates don't like him either, so that's a major strike against him. And for the cherry on top, even if his high school coach criticized him. However, Rosen's epic comeback against Texas A&M almost certainly has helped repair his draft stock a bit.
Read more at http://walterfootball.com/draft2018.php#...7hoYz5s.99

Interesting that enough of Rosen's teammates don't like him that it's known to scouts. Reminds me of what I've heard of the Casey Jacobsen situation. I know nothing firsthand, but I had heard that an explanation for the team's relative underperformance during Jacbosen's last year was lack of chemistry due to his ego.

Here's a GQ article: "Josh Rosen is the Smartest Player in College Football...and He's Gonna Pay For It."

https://www.gq.com/story/josh-rosen-ucla...e-football

Apparently he ticked off both Mora and Shaw with his comments.  That's quite a trick.

[Mick]

NFL coaches and owners are wary of the sort of things Rosen has discussed to the media, and his open views could hurt him. Scouts have told us that his teammates don't like him either, so that's a major strike against him. And for the cherry on top, even if his high school coach criticized him. However, Rosen's epic comeback against Texas A&M almost certainly has helped repair his draft stock a bit.
Read more at http://walterfootball.com/draft2018.php#...7hoYz5s.99

Interesting that enough of Rosen's teammates don't like him that it's known to scouts. Reminds me of what I've heard of the Casey Jacobsen situation. I know nothing firsthand, but I had heard that an explanation for the team's relative underperformance during Jacbosen's last year was lack of chemistry due to his ego.

Here's a GQ article: "Josh Rosen is the Smartest Player in College Football...and He's Gonna Pay For It."

https://www.gq.com/story/josh-rosen-ucla...e-football

Apparently he ticked off both Mora and Shaw with his comments.  That's quite a trick.

[DC 86]

Marinovich was outspoken at U$C  and, or while playing NFL football ?
I knew he was troubled but had always assumed he was a quiet type, unassuming guy.

Correct, however because of his drug problems his behavior was erratic, including routinely missing practice and being unprepared for games. Because of his talent the coaches indulged him for a while, which didn't endear him to his teammates. Despite being suspended from the team and then being arrested for cocaine possession he was still drafted in the first round.

I didn't mean to imply that the aforementioned quarterbacks necessarily shared Rosen's reputed personality traits, but that NFL teams are so desperate for a star at the position that they will overlook almost any negative reputation if a college player demonstrates obvious talent (Winston and Newton would be two more recent examples).

[DC 86]

Marinovich was outspoken at U$C  and, or while playing NFL football ?
I knew he was troubled but had always assumed he was a quiet type, unassuming guy.

Correct, however because of his drug problems his behavior was erratic, including routinely missing practice and being unprepared for games. Because of his talent the coaches indulged him for a while, which didn't endear him to his teammates. Despite being suspended from the team and then being arrested for cocaine possession he was still drafted in the first round.

I didn't mean to imply that the aforementioned quarterbacks necessarily shared Rosen's reputed personality traits, but that NFL teams are so desperate for a star at the position that they will overlook almost any negative reputation if a college player demonstrates obvious talent (Winston and Newton would be two more recent examples).

[Phogge]

Muncie and Joe DeRosa were ticketed for Stanford. Muncie was on the sidelines for the Bunce Rose Bowl. DeRosa was my cousin. Died a tragic death two years after leaving The University of California. He told me the story. Ralston bolted to Denver and Stanford hesitated on Mike White. UCB fired Ray Willsey in the interim and offered White. He took the job as Stanford picked Chris and JohnnyO's career suffered. White was the personal recruiter of Muncie and Joe and they followed him.

[Phogge]

Muncie and Joe DeRosa were ticketed for Stanford. Muncie was on the sidelines for the Bunce Rose Bowl. DeRosa was my cousin. Died a tragic death two years after leaving The University of California. He told me the story. Ralston bolted to Denver and Stanford hesitated on Mike White. UCB fired Ray Willsey in the interim and offered White. He took the job as Stanford picked Chris and JohnnyO's career suffered. White was the personal recruiter of Muncie and Joe and they followed him.

[SF_Cardinal_Fan]

[quote author=SF_Cardinal_Fan link=topic=17297.msg201230#msg201230 date=1505685825]

Marinovich was outspoken at U$C  and, or while playing NFL football ?
I knew he was troubled but had always assumed he was a quiet type, unassuming guy.

Correct, however because of his drug problems his behavior was erratic, including routinely missing practice and being unprepared for games. Because of his talent the coaches indulged him for a while, which didn't endear him to his teammates. Despite being suspended from the team and then being arrested for cocaine possession he was still drafted in the first round.

I didn't mean to imply that the aforementioned quarterbacks necessarily shared Rosen's reputed personality traits, but that NFL teams are so desperate for a star at the position that they will overlook almost any negative reputation if a college player demonstrates obvious talent (Winston and Newton would be two more recent examples).
[/quote]

Got it DC. Thanks for the clarification  :)
On this subject my opinion is that for crucial positions , such as QB , NFL teams are now willing to take seemingly nonsense draft day risks.
More specifically, due to the NFL's collective bargaining players union agreement, NFL rookie salary contracts remain relatively low. In essence this means teams can draft "potentially good"  QB's (an especially important football position), and not risk a significant amount of dollars for doing so.
In summary, if Rosen's collegiate career reveals any sort of potential as a legit NFL starting QB, he is going to be a top 10 draft pick. That's just the business side, the risk/reward, of today's NFL.

[SF_Cardinal_Fan]

[quote author=SF_Cardinal_Fan link=topic=17297.msg201230#msg201230 date=1505685825]

Marinovich was outspoken at U$C  and, or while playing NFL football ?
I knew he was troubled but had always assumed he was a quiet type, unassuming guy.

Correct, however because of his drug problems his behavior was erratic, including routinely missing practice and being unprepared for games. Because of his talent the coaches indulged him for a while, which didn't endear him to his teammates. Despite being suspended from the team and then being arrested for cocaine possession he was still drafted in the first round.

I didn't mean to imply that the aforementioned quarterbacks necessarily shared Rosen's reputed personality traits, but that NFL teams are so desperate for a star at the position that they will overlook almost any negative reputation if a college player demonstrates obvious talent (Winston and Newton would be two more recent examples).
[/quote]

Got it DC. Thanks for the clarification  :)
On this subject my opinion is that for crucial positions , such as QB , NFL teams are now willing to take seemingly nonsense draft day risks.
More specifically, due to the NFL's collective bargaining players union agreement, NFL rookie salary contracts remain relatively low. In essence this means teams can draft "potentially good"  QB's (an especially important football position), and not risk a significant amount of dollars for doing so.
In summary, if Rosen's collegiate career reveals any sort of potential as a legit NFL starting QB, he is going to be a top 10 draft pick. That's just the business side, the risk/reward, of today's NFL.

[JohnR34231]

[quote author=GoodGrief link=topic=17297.msg201186#msg201186 date=1505675188]

NFL coaches and owners are wary of the sort of things Rosen has discussed to the media, and his open views could hurt him. Scouts have told us that his teammates don't like him either, so that's a major strike against him. And for the cherry on top, even if his high school coach criticized him. However, Rosen's epic comeback against Texas A&M almost certainly has helped repair his draft stock a bit.
Read more at http://walterfootball.com/draft2018.php#...7hoYz5s.99

Interesting that enough of Rosen's teammates don't like him that it's known to scouts. Reminds me of what I've heard of the Casey Jacobsen situation. I know nothing firsthand, but I had heard that an explanation for the team's relative underperformance during Jacbosen's last year was lack of chemistry due to his ego.

Here's a GQ article: "Josh Rosen is the Smartest Player in College Football...and He's Gonna Pay For It."

https://www.gq.com/story/josh-rosen-ucla...e-football

Apparently he ticked off both Mora and Shaw with his comments.  That's quite a trick.
[/quote]

Shaw said he disagreed with Rosen's remarks that it was nearly impossible to play college football and get a good education. There wasn't anything in his statement that would lead one to believe (IMO anyway) that he was ticked off by them.

[JohnR34231]

[quote author=GoodGrief link=topic=17297.msg201186#msg201186 date=1505675188]

NFL coaches and owners are wary of the sort of things Rosen has discussed to the media, and his open views could hurt him. Scouts have told us that his teammates don't like him either, so that's a major strike against him. And for the cherry on top, even if his high school coach criticized him. However, Rosen's epic comeback against Texas A&M almost certainly has helped repair his draft stock a bit.
Read more at http://walterfootball.com/draft2018.php#...7hoYz5s.99

Interesting that enough of Rosen's teammates don't like him that it's known to scouts. Reminds me of what I've heard of the Casey Jacobsen situation. I know nothing firsthand, but I had heard that an explanation for the team's relative underperformance during Jacbosen's last year was lack of chemistry due to his ego.

Here's a GQ article: "Josh Rosen is the Smartest Player in College Football...and He's Gonna Pay For It."

https://www.gq.com/story/josh-rosen-ucla...e-football

Apparently he ticked off both Mora and Shaw with his comments.  That's quite a trick.
[/quote]

Shaw said he disagreed with Rosen's remarks that it was nearly impossible to play college football and get a good education. There wasn't anything in his statement that would lead one to believe (IMO anyway) that he was ticked off by them.

[Phogge]

At this moment would you want Chryst running the offense or Rosen?

[Phogge]

At this moment would you want Chryst running the offense or Rosen?

[Mick]

[quote author=Mick link=topic=17297.msg201261#msg201261 date=1505696396]
[quote author=GoodGrief link=topic=17297.msg201186#msg201186 date=1505675188]

NFL coaches and owners are wary of the sort of things Rosen has discussed to the media, and his open views could hurt him. Scouts have told us that his teammates don't like him either, so that's a major strike against him. And for the cherry on top, even if his high school coach criticized him. However, Rosen's epic comeback against Texas A&M almost certainly has helped repair his draft stock a bit.
Read more at http://walterfootball.com/draft2018.php#...7hoYz5s.99

Interesting that enough of Rosen's teammates don't like him that it's known to scouts. Reminds me of what I've heard of the Casey Jacobsen situation. I know nothing firsthand, but I had heard that an explanation for the team's relative underperformance during Jacbosen's last year was lack of chemistry due to his ego.

Here's a GQ article: "Josh Rosen is the Smartest Player in College Football...and He's Gonna Pay For It."

https://www.gq.com/story/josh-rosen-ucla...e-football

Apparently he ticked off both Mora and Shaw with his comments.  That's quite a trick.
[/quote]

Shaw said he disagreed with Rosen's remarks that it was nearly impossible to play college football and get a good education. There wasn't anything in his statement that would lead one to believe (IMO anyway) that he was ticked off by them.
[/quote]

Did you read the article?  The writer, who interviewed Shaw, wrote "You can hear the contempt in Shaw's words" and separately, "Mora and Shaw are clearly upset that Rosen said anything" and "I think that’s an unfortunate comment that does not really apply to most places. " 

Okay.  Shaw disagreed with Rosen, does not see eye to eye, thinks Rosen made an unfortunate comment that didn't apply to most places, was contemptuous and clearly upset.  Not ticked off.  Got it.

[Mick]

[quote author=Mick link=topic=17297.msg201261#msg201261 date=1505696396]
[quote author=GoodGrief link=topic=17297.msg201186#msg201186 date=1505675188]

NFL coaches and owners are wary of the sort of things Rosen has discussed to the media, and his open views could hurt him. Scouts have told us that his teammates don't like him either, so that's a major strike against him. And for the cherry on top, even if his high school coach criticized him. However, Rosen's epic comeback against Texas A&M almost certainly has helped repair his draft stock a bit.
Read more at http://walterfootball.com/draft2018.php#...7hoYz5s.99

Interesting that enough of Rosen's teammates don't like him that it's known to scouts. Reminds me of what I've heard of the Casey Jacobsen situation. I know nothing firsthand, but I had heard that an explanation for the team's relative underperformance during Jacbosen's last year was lack of chemistry due to his ego.

Here's a GQ article: "Josh Rosen is the Smartest Player in College Football...and He's Gonna Pay For It."

https://www.gq.com/story/josh-rosen-ucla...e-football

Apparently he ticked off both Mora and Shaw with his comments.  That's quite a trick.
[/quote]

Shaw said he disagreed with Rosen's remarks that it was nearly impossible to play college football and get a good education. There wasn't anything in his statement that would lead one to believe (IMO anyway) that he was ticked off by them.
[/quote]

Did you read the article?  The writer, who interviewed Shaw, wrote "You can hear the contempt in Shaw's words" and separately, "Mora and Shaw are clearly upset that Rosen said anything" and "I think that’s an unfortunate comment that does not really apply to most places. " 

Okay.  Shaw disagreed with Rosen, does not see eye to eye, thinks Rosen made an unfortunate comment that didn't apply to most places, was contemptuous and clearly upset.  Not ticked off.  Got it.

[DC 86]

Did you read the article?  The writer, who interviewed Shaw, wrote "You can hear the contempt in Shaw's words"

The writer didn't interview Shaw, he re-printed a quote from a SJMN article and assigned his interpretation.

The contempt that he "heard" was not literal, it's his personal analysis of a quote that he read.

[DC 86]

Did you read the article?  The writer, who interviewed Shaw, wrote "You can hear the contempt in Shaw's words"

The writer didn't interview Shaw, he re-printed a quote from a SJMN article and assigned his interpretation.

The contempt that he "heard" was not literal, it's his personal analysis of a quote that he read.

[Mick]

[quote author=Mick link=topic=17297.msg201316#msg201316 date=1505745709]

Did you read the article?  The writer, who interviewed Shaw, wrote "You can hear the contempt in Shaw's words"

The writer didn't interview Shaw, he re-printed a quote from a SJMN article and assigned his interpretation.

The contempt that he "heard" was not literal, it's his personal analysis of a quote that he read.
[/quote]

Oh, well it's totally invalid then.

[Mick]

[quote author=Mick link=topic=17297.msg201316#msg201316 date=1505745709]

Did you read the article?  The writer, who interviewed Shaw, wrote "You can hear the contempt in Shaw's words"

The writer didn't interview Shaw, he re-printed a quote from a SJMN article and assigned his interpretation.

The contempt that he "heard" was not literal, it's his personal analysis of a quote that he read.
[/quote]

Oh, well it's totally invalid then.

[DC 86]

[quote author=DC 86 link=topic=17297.msg201354#msg201354 date=1505758321]
[quote author=Mick link=topic=17297.msg201316#msg201316 date=1505745709]

Did you read the article?  The writer, who interviewed Shaw, wrote "You can hear the contempt in Shaw's words"

The writer didn't interview Shaw, he re-printed a quote from a SJMN article and assigned his interpretation.

The contempt that he "heard" was not literal, it's his personal analysis of a quote that he read.
[/quote]

Oh, well it's totally invalid then.
[/quote]

My point is that it's one man's reading of a third party quote, no more or less valid than JPRI's interpretation, which I took to mean that Shaw's comments (especially when taken in their entirety, not just the selected quote in GQ's article) didn't sound personally contemptuous of Rosen, although he obviously disagreed. The author of the GQ piece didn't meet Shaw in person, so why would his interpretation of a quote carry any more weight than JPRI's or yours or mine?

[DC 86]

[quote author=DC 86 link=topic=17297.msg201354#msg201354 date=1505758321]
[quote author=Mick link=topic=17297.msg201316#msg201316 date=1505745709]

Did you read the article?  The writer, who interviewed Shaw, wrote "You can hear the contempt in Shaw's words"

The writer didn't interview Shaw, he re-printed a quote from a SJMN article and assigned his interpretation.

The contempt that he "heard" was not literal, it's his personal analysis of a quote that he read.
[/quote]

Oh, well it's totally invalid then.
[/quote]

My point is that it's one man's reading of a third party quote, no more or less valid than JPRI's interpretation, which I took to mean that Shaw's comments (especially when taken in their entirety, not just the selected quote in GQ's article) didn't sound personally contemptuous of Rosen, although he obviously disagreed. The author of the GQ piece didn't meet Shaw in person, so why would his interpretation of a quote carry any more weight than JPRI's or yours or mine?