[liveoak]

I've been deeply disturbed by all of these reports but attempting to be objective, and I realize that coaching almost always involves some disgruntlement.  But this article cements the deal.  It is obvious--that for whatever reason--Paye's approach is not working for our athletes.  It is odd to me that someone who has been a Stanford WBB player would have such trouble understanding how to relate to our student athletes. There must have been a generational shift in attitudes and communication styles.

Frankly, I wonder if this is a shift that will occur in coaching more generally.  The old-style coach as authoritarian leader who can brook no dissent is over in an era when the players are professionals who have lots of options.  Coaxing the most out of our athletes will take more empathy.  Willl the coach as psychologist replace the coach as military commander?

Of course the best coaches have in the past been both.  But Pat, Geno, and Tara were not the touchy-feely kind that Cori is.  Kate is far from the touchy-feely kind either.  Early on there were those on this board who feared that Kate would not be tough enough.  Perhaps she has been too tough.

The biggest mystery to me though is not how this happened, but why administration decided not to intervene, and much earlier.  Hard to imagine the situation improving when this story is available for recruits and potential transfers to read.

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Just after I posted I remember something from a chalk talk early on.  Not sure it was this year, but it was after Kate took over.  Someone (and it was not Kate) said something about expecting more from athletes now that they were being paid.  I took it to mean that they might be treated more like professionals and less like college students.  Perhaps this was the philosophy that was adopted, and perhaps it backfired and was perceived as too cold blooded or harsh?  

It could be that professionalizing the sport created sharply different expectations--that coaches felt they could demand more, but that athletes felt they no longer had to put up with harsh treatment.

I would suggest that professionalization has a minor effect on team expectations. Dawn Staley, Kim Mulkey, Geno Auriemma, and many others are demanding coaches - but as far as I can tell, they show their players that they care about them. This has continued into the "professional" era. There are certainly exceptions, but you don't see entire teams from the coaches go into the transfer portal. This has to reflect on Kate, her staff, and the Athletic Department.

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From the uastoday article

Three people also told the Standard that Paye is allegedly working to implement a system that would prevent players from taking classes in the summer and larger-than-normal course loads so they can’t graduate early. 

If this is really true Paye has to go now, without any doubt. One of the "big" disputes on this board is the degree to which academic accomplishment should be compromised in the name of athletic success. Any coach who attempts to actually prevent a student taking a heavy course load and/or summer classes is clearly subverting the academic purpose of the University as well as potentially damaging the students academic career. There is a reason the student wants to take a heavy load and/or take classes during the summer. The coach has no business impeding that academic progress.
 
I can see a coach suggesting that a lighter course load during the season in order to foster better athletic performance. However, if the student chooses not to do so, the coach must instead look for ways to facilitate athletic success subject to the students actual course load. The rest of the time, the coach needs to just stay out of the students academic program. That is ostensibly why the student is in school in the first place.
 
It is even more inadmissible to attempt to stymie a students academic career because the coach wants to deny the student the ability to grad transfer. Said student may not be able to get in to a Stanford graduate program, or simply may not want to do so. Denying the student the opportunity to get a year of graduate tuition paid for by an athletic scholarship elsewhere just because they would then have to stay at Stanford is totally inadmissible. If that was even seriously considered all involved should be fired for cause.

I agree with this...interfering with student academic accomplishment should not be happening anywhere - and especially at Stanford. Someone who has a bachelors/JD/MBA from Stanford should know that. The idea that coaches would try to restrict student-athletes' course load so they had to spend 4 years instead of 3 to graduate is disgusting. I'm not a lawyer, but is this not actionable in a court of law?

I can't see that anything will change until Kate leaves, and I would suggest a new coach from a different coaching tree in the future.

[liveoak]

I've been deeply disturbed by all of these reports but attempting to be objective, and I realize that coaching almost always involves some disgruntlement.  But this article cements the deal.  It is obvious--that for whatever reason--Paye's approach is not working for our athletes.  It is odd to me that someone who has been a Stanford WBB player would have such trouble understanding how to relate to our student athletes. There must have been a generational shift in attitudes and communication styles.

Frankly, I wonder if this is a shift that will occur in coaching more generally.  The old-style coach as authoritarian leader who can brook no dissent is over in an era when the players are professionals who have lots of options.  Coaxing the most out of our athletes will take more empathy.  Willl the coach as psychologist replace the coach as military commander?

Of course the best coaches have in the past been both.  But Pat, Geno, and Tara were not the touchy-feely kind that Cori is.  Kate is far from the touchy-feely kind either.  Early on there were those on this board who feared that Kate would not be tough enough.  Perhaps she has been too tough.

The biggest mystery to me though is not how this happened, but why administration decided not to intervene, and much earlier.  Hard to imagine the situation improving when this story is available for recruits and potential transfers to read.

---

Just after I posted I remember something from a chalk talk early on.  Not sure it was this year, but it was after Kate took over.  Someone (and it was not Kate) said something about expecting more from athletes now that they were being paid.  I took it to mean that they might be treated more like professionals and less like college students.  Perhaps this was the philosophy that was adopted, and perhaps it backfired and was perceived as too cold blooded or harsh?  

It could be that professionalizing the sport created sharply different expectations--that coaches felt they could demand more, but that athletes felt they no longer had to put up with harsh treatment.

I would suggest that professionalization has a minor effect on team expectations. Dawn Staley, Kim Mulkey, Geno Auriemma, and many others are demanding coaches - but as far as I can tell, they show their players that they care about them. This has continued into the "professional" era. There are certainly exceptions, but you don't see entire teams from the coaches go into the transfer portal. This has to reflect on Kate, her staff, and the Athletic Department.

---

From the uastoday article

Three people also told the Standard that Paye is allegedly working to implement a system that would prevent players from taking classes in the summer and larger-than-normal course loads so they can’t graduate early. 

If this is really true Paye has to go now, without any doubt. One of the "big" disputes on this board is the degree to which academic accomplishment should be compromised in the name of athletic success. Any coach who attempts to actually prevent a student taking a heavy course load and/or summer classes is clearly subverting the academic purpose of the University as well as potentially damaging the students academic career. There is a reason the student wants to take a heavy load and/or take classes during the summer. The coach has no business impeding that academic progress.
 
I can see a coach suggesting that a lighter course load during the season in order to foster better athletic performance. However, if the student chooses not to do so, the coach must instead look for ways to facilitate athletic success subject to the students actual course load. The rest of the time, the coach needs to just stay out of the students academic program. That is ostensibly why the student is in school in the first place.
 
It is even more inadmissible to attempt to stymie a students academic career because the coach wants to deny the student the ability to grad transfer. Said student may not be able to get in to a Stanford graduate program, or simply may not want to do so. Denying the student the opportunity to get a year of graduate tuition paid for by an athletic scholarship elsewhere just because they would then have to stay at Stanford is totally inadmissible. If that was even seriously considered all involved should be fired for cause.

I agree with this...interfering with student academic accomplishment should not be happening anywhere - and especially at Stanford. Someone who has a bachelors/JD/MBA from Stanford should know that. The idea that coaches would try to restrict student-athletes' course load so they had to spend 4 years instead of 3 to graduate is disgusting. I'm not a lawyer, but is this not actionable in a court of law?

I can't see that anything will change until Kate leaves, and I would suggest a new coach from a different coaching tree in the future.