[HisKneeWasDown]

[quote author=eric link=topic=16070.msg179185#msg179185 date=1479087757]
I also sent an email to Muir as well as John Etchemendy.

I got a reply from John Etchemendy, not much in the way of details but basically

"the band knows what they need to do to be allowed to travel and has not met those requirements".
[/quote]

If you believe what's been said on the band's FB page, that is not true.

[HisKneeWasDown]

[quote author=eric link=topic=16070.msg179185#msg179185 date=1479087757]
I also sent an email to Muir as well as John Etchemendy.

I got a reply from John Etchemendy, not much in the way of details but basically

"the band knows what they need to do to be allowed to travel and has not met those requirements".
[/quote]

If you believe what's been said on the band's FB page, that is not true.

[82lsju]

from "The Tree" on Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/stanfordtree/?h...ED&fref=nf

While our social media is usually a safe haven for jokes and memes, we are here to deliver some bad news. As many of you know, we have been on Travel Probation because of the results of a Title IX and Organizational Conduct Board (OCB) investigation. Most of the incidents occurred before any of us were students, but we understood the concerns and have been hard at work evaluating who we are, changing what we do, and asking why we do it. Our Band Working Group committees have documented this work and submitted extensive evidence of organizational change to the combined OCB and Title IX committee. The week of October 24, the university committee responded with further questions, and we submitted additional information within 3 business days. Despite this, the university committee decided a couple of days ago that we hadn’t provided sufficient documentation to lift the travel ban, citing issues with documentation and introducing new concerns.

No new issues led to this decision.

We can’t be there, but we’ll absolutely be doing our part to make Big Game Week as awesome as possible. You’ll still see and hear us all over campus. Check out Bearial at Noon today by the Claw for a sneak preview of what Oski and the team from the other side of the Bay can expect this Saturday. We’ll still crash the end of Gaieties. We’re still bringing the funk to the concerningly funkless Bay Area.

One more thing. Since we aren’t allowed to go, we decided to give our transportation money back to the students by providing five buses for students to Big Game, free of charge. Our highest priority is making sure Stanford Football gets the support they deserve. If we can’t do that as band members, we want to make sure that as many students as possible can do that as fans. If you’re interested, watch out in the next couple of days for a sign-up link.

Please share to spread the word about the busses we are providing. Don't worry, I'll still be recklessly spinning at Big Game this Saturday in the stands with all of you. Keep the faith. Go Card.

[82lsju]

from "The Tree" on Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/stanfordtree/?h...ED&fref=nf

While our social media is usually a safe haven for jokes and memes, we are here to deliver some bad news. As many of you know, we have been on Travel Probation because of the results of a Title IX and Organizational Conduct Board (OCB) investigation. Most of the incidents occurred before any of us were students, but we understood the concerns and have been hard at work evaluating who we are, changing what we do, and asking why we do it. Our Band Working Group committees have documented this work and submitted extensive evidence of organizational change to the combined OCB and Title IX committee. The week of October 24, the university committee responded with further questions, and we submitted additional information within 3 business days. Despite this, the university committee decided a couple of days ago that we hadn’t provided sufficient documentation to lift the travel ban, citing issues with documentation and introducing new concerns.

No new issues led to this decision.

We can’t be there, but we’ll absolutely be doing our part to make Big Game Week as awesome as possible. You’ll still see and hear us all over campus. Check out Bearial at Noon today by the Claw for a sneak preview of what Oski and the team from the other side of the Bay can expect this Saturday. We’ll still crash the end of Gaieties. We’re still bringing the funk to the concerningly funkless Bay Area.

One more thing. Since we aren’t allowed to go, we decided to give our transportation money back to the students by providing five buses for students to Big Game, free of charge. Our highest priority is making sure Stanford Football gets the support they deserve. If we can’t do that as band members, we want to make sure that as many students as possible can do that as fans. If you’re interested, watch out in the next couple of days for a sign-up link.

Please share to spread the word about the busses we are providing. Don't worry, I'll still be recklessly spinning at Big Game this Saturday in the stands with all of you. Keep the faith. Go Card.

[fullmetal]

That is really, really crappy :(  No band, no Tree, no Dollies?  What the heck.

[fullmetal]

That is really, really crappy :(  No band, no Tree, no Dollies?  What the heck.

[CrazedZooChimp]

I'm sorry but Muir doesn't give a darn. There's no love lost between the Band and the Athletic Department. Plus the matter is outside the Athletic Department. And Muir doesn't strike me as someone who'd stick his neck out for anything. (I was really disappointed when the first communication I got from him was a plea to switch to Comcast because they carry Pac12N. I sent him a nasty letter, to which he actually called and left me a voicemail about).

I'm sending mine to Tessier-Levign and Etchemendy. But I'm waiting for a few more facts (I asked on the Band alumni FB page).

You could also email the band at pr@lsjumb.com, they might be more willing to explain things in detail less publicly than on Facebook (not speaking from any inside knowledge here, just a guess).

[CrazedZooChimp]

I'm sorry but Muir doesn't give a darn. There's no love lost between the Band and the Athletic Department. Plus the matter is outside the Athletic Department. And Muir doesn't strike me as someone who'd stick his neck out for anything. (I was really disappointed when the first communication I got from him was a plea to switch to Comcast because they carry Pac12N. I sent him a nasty letter, to which he actually called and left me a voicemail about).

I'm sending mine to Tessier-Levign and Etchemendy. But I'm waiting for a few more facts (I asked on the Band alumni FB page).

You could also email the band at pr@lsjumb.com, they might be more willing to explain things in detail less publicly than on Facebook (not speaking from any inside knowledge here, just a guess).

[JJJ]

I also sent an email to Muir as well as John Etchemendy.

Following your lead, email sent to provost@stanford.edu and president@stanford.edu.
I know it probably won't make a difference, but at least someone on their staff had to wade through and note my irritation.

[JJJ]

I also sent an email to Muir as well as John Etchemendy.

Following your lead, email sent to provost@stanford.edu and president@stanford.edu.
I know it probably won't make a difference, but at least someone on their staff had to wade through and note my irritation.

[82lsju]

[quote author=eric link=topic=16070.msg179185#msg179185 date=1479087757]
I also sent an email to Muir as well as John Etchemendy.

Following your lead, email sent to provost@stanford.edu and president@stanford.edu.
I know it probably won't make a difference, but at least someone on their staff had to wade through and note my irritation.
[/quote]

FYI, John Etchemendy responded to my email and again to my reply to him. 

[82lsju]

[quote author=eric link=topic=16070.msg179185#msg179185 date=1479087757]
I also sent an email to Muir as well as John Etchemendy.

Following your lead, email sent to provost@stanford.edu and president@stanford.edu.
I know it probably won't make a difference, but at least someone on their staff had to wade through and note my irritation.
[/quote]

FYI, John Etchemendy responded to my email and again to my reply to him. 

[JJJ]

[quote author=JJJ link=topic=16070.msg179299#msg179299 date=1479171479]
[quote author=eric link=topic=16070.msg179185#msg179185 date=1479087757]
I also sent an email to Muir as well as John Etchemendy.

Following your lead, email sent to provost@stanford.edu and president@stanford.edu.
I know it probably won't make a difference, but at least someone on their staff had to wade through and note my irritation.
[/quote]

FYI, John Etchemendy responded to my email and again to my reply to him. 
[/quote]
Curious how Etch responded the second time (did you call him out?). No, I don't know him well enough to call him Etch (=don't know him at all). So I'm not really expecting a response, but we shall see.

[JJJ]

[quote author=JJJ link=topic=16070.msg179299#msg179299 date=1479171479]
[quote author=eric link=topic=16070.msg179185#msg179185 date=1479087757]
I also sent an email to Muir as well as John Etchemendy.

Following your lead, email sent to provost@stanford.edu and president@stanford.edu.
I know it probably won't make a difference, but at least someone on their staff had to wade through and note my irritation.
[/quote]

FYI, John Etchemendy responded to my email and again to my reply to him. 
[/quote]
Curious how Etch responded the second time (did you call him out?). No, I don't know him well enough to call him Etch (=don't know him at all). So I'm not really expecting a response, but we shall see.

[82lsju]

[quote author=eric link=topic=16070.msg179312#msg179312 date=1479174169]
[quote author=JJJ link=topic=16070.msg179299#msg179299 date=1479171479]
[quote author=eric link=topic=16070.msg179185#msg179185 date=1479087757]
I also sent an email to Muir as well as John Etchemendy.

Following your lead, email sent to provost@stanford.edu and president@stanford.edu.
I know it probably won't make a difference, but at least someone on their staff had to wade through and note my irritation.
[/quote]

FYI, John Etchemendy responded to my email and again to my reply to him. 
[/quote]
Curious how Etch responded the second time (did you call him out?). No, I don't know him well enough to call him Etch (=don't know him at all). So I'm not really expecting a response, but we shall see.
[/quote]

I don't know him at all.  I've had two other email exchanges with him, both regarding football, one in Sept 2006 and again in Jan 2009.

In the current exchange I asked some clarifying questions in my reply to him, he provided some additional info but no real details on the underlying issues other that what others have written here about the involvement of the Title IX office and the Organizational Conduct Board.

In all three email exchanges he's seemed genuinely engaged and interested in the topics.

to email him I've used

etch@stanford.edu not provost@stanford.edu

not sure if that matters or not

so far nothing but crickets from Bernard Muir.

Etchemendy seems to be the "voice" for the emails I've sent this time and previously.

I sent the previous 2006 and 2009 emails to him, Bowlsby and Hennessey and only got a response from him.

[82lsju]

[quote author=eric link=topic=16070.msg179312#msg179312 date=1479174169]
[quote author=JJJ link=topic=16070.msg179299#msg179299 date=1479171479]
[quote author=eric link=topic=16070.msg179185#msg179185 date=1479087757]
I also sent an email to Muir as well as John Etchemendy.

Following your lead, email sent to provost@stanford.edu and president@stanford.edu.
I know it probably won't make a difference, but at least someone on their staff had to wade through and note my irritation.
[/quote]

FYI, John Etchemendy responded to my email and again to my reply to him. 
[/quote]
Curious how Etch responded the second time (did you call him out?). No, I don't know him well enough to call him Etch (=don't know him at all). So I'm not really expecting a response, but we shall see.
[/quote]

I don't know him at all.  I've had two other email exchanges with him, both regarding football, one in Sept 2006 and again in Jan 2009.

In the current exchange I asked some clarifying questions in my reply to him, he provided some additional info but no real details on the underlying issues other that what others have written here about the involvement of the Title IX office and the Organizational Conduct Board.

In all three email exchanges he's seemed genuinely engaged and interested in the topics.

to email him I've used

etch@stanford.edu not provost@stanford.edu

not sure if that matters or not

so far nothing but crickets from Bernard Muir.

Etchemendy seems to be the "voice" for the emails I've sent this time and previously.

I sent the previous 2006 and 2009 emails to him, Bowlsby and Hennessey and only got a response from him.

[JJJ]

Interestingly, I received a response a little while ago from Howard Wolf, as VP of Alumni Affairs, in MTL's stead. I'm not sure I should reproduce the whole thing here (what is proper protocol on this?) but he indicated that there were new allegations/issues from 2015 that were not addressed, and there are even newer issues that aren't being factored in but don't dispose the university to grant further exceptions to the travel ban.

There will be reviews again before bowl season and again before basketball postseason as necessary.

As always, there are two sides (at least) to every story... :(

[JJJ]

Interestingly, I received a response a little while ago from Howard Wolf, as VP of Alumni Affairs, in MTL's stead. I'm not sure I should reproduce the whole thing here (what is proper protocol on this?) but he indicated that there were new allegations/issues from 2015 that were not addressed, and there are even newer issues that aren't being factored in but don't dispose the university to grant further exceptions to the travel ban.

There will be reviews again before bowl season and again before basketball postseason as necessary.

As always, there are two sides (at least) to every story... :(

[TreesAndBirds]

I felt that the admin supported the band after the Rose Bowl halftime issue. Of course the script had been reviewed, but it makes me think that the admin isnt unreasonable in its treatment of the band.

[TreesAndBirds]

I felt that the admin supported the band after the Rose Bowl halftime issue. Of course the script had been reviewed, but it makes me think that the admin isnt unreasonable in its treatment of the band.

[JJJ]

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Sta...88305.html

Edit: as pointed out in another thread, you need to copy/paste the URL and substitue "c a l" for the upside down cal for the link to work to see the NBC Bay Area news clip about the Band not playing.

[JJJ]

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Sta...88305.html

Edit: as pointed out in another thread, you need to copy/paste the URL and substitue "c a l" for the upside down cal for the link to work to see the NBC Bay Area news clip about the Band not playing.

[82lsju]

Alumni of the Leland Stanford Junior University Marching Band (LSJUMB) have spoken out against the decision to bar the Band from travelling to Big Game this weekend. The decision, made known to the group this week, was a result of a travel ban instituted on the Band last year based on Title IX and Office of Community Standards violations.
...
According to Lisa Lapin, vice president of University communications, the Title IX office and Office of Community Standards found that the LSJUMB made insufficient progress in remedial actions.

Lapin said that the University allowed LSJUMB to travel to the 2015 Pac-12 Football Championship and the 2016 Rose Bowl following initial improvement, but that the band has made no progress in completing an outlined list of changes from the Office of Student Affairs (OSA) since.

http://www.stanforddaily.com/2016/11/17/...-game-ban/

[82lsju]

Alumni of the Leland Stanford Junior University Marching Band (LSJUMB) have spoken out against the decision to bar the Band from travelling to Big Game this weekend. The decision, made known to the group this week, was a result of a travel ban instituted on the Band last year based on Title IX and Office of Community Standards violations.
...
According to Lisa Lapin, vice president of University communications, the Title IX office and Office of Community Standards found that the LSJUMB made insufficient progress in remedial actions.

Lapin said that the University allowed LSJUMB to travel to the 2015 Pac-12 Football Championship and the 2016 Rose Bowl following initial improvement, but that the band has made no progress in completing an outlined list of changes from the Office of Student Affairs (OSA) since.

http://www.stanforddaily.com/2016/11/17/...-game-ban/

[JJJ]

Alumni of the Leland Stanford Junior University Marching Band (LSJUMB) have spoken out against the decision to bar the Band from travelling to Big Game this weekend. The decision, made known to the group this week, was a result of a travel ban instituted on the Band last year based on Title IX and Office of Community Standards violations.
...
According to Lisa Lapin, vice president of University communications, the Title IX office and Office of Community Standards found that the LSJUMB made insufficient progress in remedial actions.

Lapin said that the University allowed LSJUMB to travel to the 2015 Pac-12 Football Championship and the 2016 Rose Bowl following initial improvement, but that the band has made no progress in completing an outlined list of changes from the Office of Student Affairs (OSA) since.

http://www.stanforddaily.com/2016/11/17/...-game-ban/

Thanks for sharing. So in fact, the current athletes, students, band members, and fans are still being punished for things done by people in 2011...

[JJJ]

Alumni of the Leland Stanford Junior University Marching Band (LSJUMB) have spoken out against the decision to bar the Band from travelling to Big Game this weekend. The decision, made known to the group this week, was a result of a travel ban instituted on the Band last year based on Title IX and Office of Community Standards violations.
...
According to Lisa Lapin, vice president of University communications, the Title IX office and Office of Community Standards found that the LSJUMB made insufficient progress in remedial actions.

Lapin said that the University allowed LSJUMB to travel to the 2015 Pac-12 Football Championship and the 2016 Rose Bowl following initial improvement, but that the band has made no progress in completing an outlined list of changes from the Office of Student Affairs (OSA) since.

http://www.stanforddaily.com/2016/11/17/...-game-ban/

Thanks for sharing. So in fact, the current athletes, students, band members, and fans are still being punished for things done by people in 2011...

[82lsju]

[quote author=eric link=topic=16070.msg179623#msg179623 date=1479493597]
Alumni of the Leland Stanford Junior University Marching Band (LSJUMB) have spoken out against the decision to bar the Band from travelling to Big Game this weekend. The decision, made known to the group this week, was a result of a travel ban instituted on the Band last year based on Title IX and Office of Community Standards violations.
...
According to Lisa Lapin, vice president of University communications, the Title IX office and Office of Community Standards found that the LSJUMB made insufficient progress in remedial actions.

Lapin said that the University allowed LSJUMB to travel to the 2015 Pac-12 Football Championship and the 2016 Rose Bowl following initial improvement, but that the band has made no progress in completing an outlined list of changes from the Office of Student Affairs (OSA) since.

http://www.stanforddaily.com/2016/11/17/...-game-ban/

Thanks for sharing. So in fact, the current athletes, students, band members, and fans are still being punished for things done by people in 2011...
[/quote]

maybe the article cites some other issues without a timeframe

"The LSJUMB now faces four new complaints of breaking the alcohol suspension and travel ban, but Lapin said these counts are not deciding factors in the ban on Big Game."

[82lsju]

[quote author=eric link=topic=16070.msg179623#msg179623 date=1479493597]
Alumni of the Leland Stanford Junior University Marching Band (LSJUMB) have spoken out against the decision to bar the Band from travelling to Big Game this weekend. The decision, made known to the group this week, was a result of a travel ban instituted on the Band last year based on Title IX and Office of Community Standards violations.
...
According to Lisa Lapin, vice president of University communications, the Title IX office and Office of Community Standards found that the LSJUMB made insufficient progress in remedial actions.

Lapin said that the University allowed LSJUMB to travel to the 2015 Pac-12 Football Championship and the 2016 Rose Bowl following initial improvement, but that the band has made no progress in completing an outlined list of changes from the Office of Student Affairs (OSA) since.

http://www.stanforddaily.com/2016/11/17/...-game-ban/

Thanks for sharing. So in fact, the current athletes, students, band members, and fans are still being punished for things done by people in 2011...
[/quote]

maybe the article cites some other issues without a timeframe

"The LSJUMB now faces four new complaints of breaking the alcohol suspension and travel ban, but Lapin said these counts are not deciding factors in the ban on Big Game."

[CTcard]

Thanks for sharing. So in fact, the current athletes, students, band members, and fans are still being punished for things done by people in 2011...

Well, that could be true but it's not really what the article said.
"... but that the band has made no progress in completing an outlined list of changes from the Office of Student Affairs (OSA) since [the Rose Bowl]."

So, presumably they are being punished for progress not made.

It's impossible to tell from these articles whether either side is being unreasonable or not.


It is a little weird to me that I know (or at least knew) the alums quoted.

[CTcard]

Thanks for sharing. So in fact, the current athletes, students, band members, and fans are still being punished for things done by people in 2011...

Well, that could be true but it's not really what the article said.
"... but that the band has made no progress in completing an outlined list of changes from the Office of Student Affairs (OSA) since [the Rose Bowl]."

So, presumably they are being punished for progress not made.

It's impossible to tell from these articles whether either side is being unreasonable or not.


It is a little weird to me that I know (or at least knew) the alums quoted.

[JJJ]

[quote author=JJJ link=topic=16070.msg179659#msg179659 date=1479512632]
Thanks for sharing. So in fact, the current athletes, students, band members, and fans are still being punished for things done by people in 2011...

Well, that could be true but it's not really what the article said.
"... but that the band has made no progress in completing an outlined list of changes from the Office of Student Affairs (OSA) since [the Rose Bowl]."

So, presumably they are being punished for progress not made.

It's impossible to tell from these articles whether either side is being unreasonable or not.


It is a little weird to me that I know (or at least knew) the alums quoted.
[/quote]

Yes and no. I was under the impression, at least initially, that the band was being punished for something new. The 2015 issues in fact were about 2011 or 2012 and while the band was working "with" the powers that be, I was told that the goal posts kept getting moved. Those are the same issues for which they are currently being punished, as far as I can gather. Which, in my opinion, understandably would make them feel like "what's the point?" (Cue Paul McCartney and the Wings "Mrs. Vanderbilt"---"What's the use of worrying, what's the use of hurrying (no use), what's the use of anything?"). Just one semi-outsider's opinion, by the way, so don't be too rough.

[JJJ]

[quote author=JJJ link=topic=16070.msg179659#msg179659 date=1479512632]
Thanks for sharing. So in fact, the current athletes, students, band members, and fans are still being punished for things done by people in 2011...

Well, that could be true but it's not really what the article said.
"... but that the band has made no progress in completing an outlined list of changes from the Office of Student Affairs (OSA) since [the Rose Bowl]."

So, presumably they are being punished for progress not made.

It's impossible to tell from these articles whether either side is being unreasonable or not.


It is a little weird to me that I know (or at least knew) the alums quoted.
[/quote]

Yes and no. I was under the impression, at least initially, that the band was being punished for something new. The 2015 issues in fact were about 2011 or 2012 and while the band was working "with" the powers that be, I was told that the goal posts kept getting moved. Those are the same issues for which they are currently being punished, as far as I can gather. Which, in my opinion, understandably would make them feel like "what's the point?" (Cue Paul McCartney and the Wings "Mrs. Vanderbilt"---"What's the use of worrying, what's the use of hurrying (no use), what's the use of anything?"). Just one semi-outsider's opinion, by the way, so don't be too rough.

[HisKneeWasDown]

The Band alums on the alumni board are oddly coy about sharing details on the alumni Facebook page. I wonder if there's some sort of gag order?

[HisKneeWasDown]

The Band alums on the alumni board are oddly coy about sharing details on the alumni Facebook page. I wonder if there's some sort of gag order?